Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year - Page 7

I'll dump my Netbook in favor of a touchscreen tablet. Wonder if we can dual boot Windows 7 on this bad boy... ?

Chris
http://faaipdeoiad.com/

There are strong rumors that this tablet will be based on ARM processors. In any event you don't seem to realize that a tablet isn't a substitute for a notebook. It is a different animal that could not be used properly with Windows 7 even if it had Intel inside.

I'm not trying to be negative here just that I see so many posts about a laptop being replaced with a tablet that I want to scream. I think many will be almost instantly disappointed if they are heavy laptop users. A repeat of AIR isn't needed, that is we don't need people running out and buying the thing only to sell at a huge loss three months later when they realize the unit doesn't fit their needs.

Frankly I don't think Apple can be successful marketing a tablet in the same way as a notebook gets marketed. That would lead to to many disappointed people once the device is in hand. The tablet will need it's own reason for being. We can guess at things such as video Ipod or e-book reading but I highly doubt success would be forth coming with as a spread sheet productivity machine. The simple reason is that input method isn't acceptable for mass text entry.


Dave

Consider:

You are on that vacation trip (train, plane or car). The kids are in the back seat(s) and each has his own personal device. One is watching a movie, another is playing a video game, the third is listening/watching streamed AV Albums or TV. Or they can all interact and share (tweets, walkie-talkie, multiplayer games, AV playlists).

Meanwhile your spouse, in the passenger seat, is reading a book/magazine, or monitoring trip schedules/travelog, or checking security/status at the home front.

You, the driver, are getting turn-by-turn instructions or heads-up of points of interest along the way.

Then, vacation over, we all go back to our daily routine (business data, presos, schedules, home records and management, sports, events, entertainment, school/college). Each of us needs to take our personal stuff with us, whether it be contacts or text books).

So, really, this is for much more than entertainment... it is for most of the things we do.

The interesting thing is that one device does all these things, tailored to your / my specific needs, in any setting, at any time.

For example, the kids would use it for:

--I-am-here, where-where-you;
--text books, lesson plans, note taking, homework assignment/preparation/submission, drill & practice, tests;
--medical allergies & records;
--personal TV, music player, movie player, game player; ad nauseam.

Who, in the family, wouldn't need/use his own, personal, one of these and the services it provides? Even, the baby would have one, on the wall, to monitor his well-being!

All of this for, say, $800 per device (1-time cost) and, say, $100-$400 per month for all the members of the family unit to access (via cell, WiFi, Cable) the services. The latter could be underwritten by advertising, and/or offset by replacing current, monthly, telephone and cable television costs.

Think of the possibilities of a "Family Plan" concept for packaging and selling the devices, the connectivity and the services!

Point is, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of these. Those providing services or content will have a large, universal, install base to sell into.


... I tend to get excited

Dick

P.S. Merry Christmas, Everyone!

there are two schools of thought here - either the iTab is an enlarged touch that runs apps on the iPhone OS, or a smaller MacBook that runs applications on the desktop OS, adapted to touch screen UI.

the track pad/keyboard UI of the MacBook could be converted into a touch screen UI logically. but the human finger is just not as precise a pointer as a cursor, nor are we all well coordinated. it is even harder to do precisely with something your are holding or when in motion. and applications often require fairly precise location of the cursor. so in practice you would have to zoom the screen bigger and then smaller, etc., an awful lot.

bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.

this would also be true for all third party applications. and how many of them would be revised to touch friendly for a unique isolated Mac product UI with an installed base of -0-? for a long time, very very few.

whereas, for the iPhone Apple specifically has scaled down and simplified Safari and iTunes to be limited function touch-friendly apps - just the most important stuff from each. Apple could also do the same with the iLife and iWork suites, which would then really work well on the bigger 10" touch screen display.

and of course a huge variety of thousands of third party apps already exist today that could run on it, since the installed base of that UI is now 45 million and growing rapidly.

as for the keyboard, in either case it is less than ideal. i think we all will just learn to type with one hand. the iPhone made it clear Apple does NOT design its mobile products around the keyboard, but around the UI instead.

the above clearly tells me the new iTab will not be a shrunken laptop, but rather a super Touch. just for myself, i would not buy a mini-laptop version - if i want to run full sized applications then i want to run them in the way they were designed to work well - so i'd have to buy a MacBook.

but i would buy a super Touch, for all the apps, the media, the mobile convenience. and i hate trying to use a clamshell laptop scrunched up in coach for hours - the ergonomics are terrible and i can't open the lid all the way for the best viewing angle. but the ergonomics and view of a tablet would be dramatically better.

Geez! Where have you been? Those pics have only been posted as a feature article for every mac related site on the planet for a few months now.

I take it that your back from your extended exploratory mission on Jupiter's moon Titan?

It's been said that may newer GUI objects like Cover Flow are preparation for a touch screen Mac. While this may be the case, most existing GUI elements have not been changed this way. Plus, a 10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution.

You have a very good point of using it while in motion.

Based on the screen size, which is essentially a letter sized piece of paper folder in half, and the low resolution that will come with that I fail to see this being much of a productivity device.

It seems most like an Apple version of the Vuze HD, and will primarily focus on media with apps developed by third parties (like the iPhone), with perhaps a few standard apps like an ebook reader along with what the iPhone has (Mail, iCal, iTunes, Safari, Google Maps, etc).

My bet is screen resolution will not be that of an Apple Portable, but rather that of an iPhone. Big difference.

If this comes to fruition, which at this point in the rumour churning it seems likely with the amount of authenticated press its getting, it would have to be a different version of OS X. Niether iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X would fit such a device, even though many frameworks from both of the other OSes and similar APIs would carry over easily.

The UI would need to be completely finger based, even if there was a capacitance stylus option and, of course, mouse/trackpad/keyboard option. This is neither a super-portable iPhone/Touch sized device or a replacement to your primary PC/Mac. This is a lot of engineering.

A new App Store and Tablet OS X SDK for the device would offer a lot of potential for the device, but they could easily use the iPhone Simulator to have pretty much every iPhone/Touch app running on it within the simulator.

While this seems like a given now it seems to be missing that killer something to make this widely popular. With Apples money and newfound fanbase even no killer features would probably sell better than Apples 15 PowerBook did just a handful of years ago, so it would almost certainly turn a wicked profit fast. Still, I would expect a feature or business model that hasnt been mentioned yet to be the real driving force of such a device.

I'm going to go with this. I think a larger iPhone screen doesn't make sense considering an unsubsidized iPhone costs 699 and this is supposed to cost 800 with more power, memory, screen size and function.

I agree with most of your points.

--There several styli that work with the iPhone screen, and there is nothing to prevent their use with a tablet. In fact, if the stylus can detect pressure, this could be sent to the tablet via BT.

--I suspect that apple has been refining the iLife and iWork UI to accommodate a touch UI. Many things would translate [to Touch] directly. Other things, such as dragging small shape handles/points will need to be re-implemented.

--there are a few options for key entry, from a BT hard kb to variations on Touch kbs (chording, shorthand, stenography, speed writing, etc). One interesting approach is ShapeWriter:

http://www.shapewriter.com/software.html#iPhone

where key entry is performed by dragging from key to key, instead of hunt and peck. Each word's, combination and order of keys draws an unique shape. You can get up to speed with a very little practice. It is roughly equivalent to signing for the hearing impaired.

The biggest downside is that it is not standard across all apps.

--Handwriting and Voice recognition are options

I believe that there has got to be a better keying solution that the 19th century legacy QWERTY keyboard that was designed to slow the typist down so that the type-bars had a chance to return after striking the paper.

--As for business/professional use, maybe we need to look at what we do from a different perspective. How about taking an app like Sketches or PagesTouch, and drawing that pie chart with your finger: the app converts your scribbles to regular, multi-colored segments of a circle and allows you to easily adjust them (size and % value). Get it looking the way you want & tap a button! The app generates the spreadsheet from the chart. A camera, compass, GPS and CPU can turn a scene into Augmented Reality (identifying where you are, and what you see). We have reverse GPS; why not Reverse CAD, Reverse OpenGL, Reverse PhotoShop?

I look to a well designed (hardware and software) Touch tablet as being the shape of future... Certainly there will be powerhouse computers, but they too will adopt the large, touch interface, The desktop computers, as we know them today, will be consigned to the green-eyeshades in the back room.

Dick

I'm not sure I see a problem here.

i really see great potential in simplified iPhone-type apps for iLife and iWork. this has gotten very little discussion so far.

if the iTab has the camera/video, then easy to use touch screen versions of iPhoto and iMovie with much simpler menus and bigger control buttons etc. would be killer. just basics, but including all the common things that would be enough 80% of the time for consumers (the iPhone 3.0 video app is a baby step only). the 10" screen would offer enough view area, whereas the iPhone screen is obviously too small.

likewise, for light document editing in a streamlined iWork, even the limited virtual keyboard would work. obviously would not write a thesis on it, but modifying docs on the road or a keynote presentation would be very possible. or keeping notes, records, etc.

Apple has a huge incentive to broaden iLife and iWork into touch screen app suites. it does not want to see those key mobile consumer functions captured completely instead by Google and others' web apps. and it would further reinforce Mobile Me's alternative cloud services for them.

these very sophisticated apps might not be ready until January or later, even if the iTab were released this fall just as a super-sized Touch for Xmas. that might account for the conflicting release dates we are hearing about ...

Any idea what the price range is going to be?

Thing I don't get is what OS will be on the tablet? If it's a full Mac OS then that'd be good, but I can't see the battery lasting if the case has to hold the guts, screen and battery..

Instead, I reckon it might be a kind of super-iPod touch, running iPhone apps, but able to multitask because it's bigger battery and processor.

Yes but none of this is common netbook usage. Which is my point if Apple tries to sell this as a replacement for a netbook the marketing will fail.

Again uses not normally associated with netbooks.

So is the current Touch or iPhone but they don't replace a laptop either. What could make this device neat would be voice transcription, that would greatly reduce the impact of having no keyboard. That would be a surprise though so we go back to the thing being useless for stuff that requires heavy data input.

ad nothing, these are not uses unique to a tablet computer. Some such as note taking would be almost impossible.

You have to be completely off your rocker if you think people will pay $400 a month for data access. I agree with some of you points but this has me believing you are completely off your rocker. I would pay much more that twenty dollars a machine for data access.

You must be a highly over paid marketing droid if you honestly think people will spend that much on a data plan. Seriously you want people to spend almost half a grand a month for 3 dollars worth of bandwidth. Especially on a device that will most likely be picking up free WiFi often.

You are getting ahead of things here. To sell that many devices the unit needs to have a features that are in effect universal. There also needs to be reasonable costs associated with owning the device, something you seem to mis.

I would agree that you are excited but really also out of Touch . It has to do with those costs you suppose we would be willing to pay.


Dave.

Realize that the unsubsidized iPhones are marketed at $699, they don't cost that much. I'd be surprised to find them costing Apple much more than $150 bucks. So building a larger device isn't going to cost much more.

Think about it if the device has an ARM SoC it isn't going to cost much more than the CPU in the current iPhone. Especially if the device is 45nm. Even if Apple adds extra computational units and a vastly improved GPU it is still all on on chip.

The only thing that will cost Apple more is the screen and likely RAM and storage. The screen for obvious reasons and the RAM because it is likely to be much larger than what is in the iPhone. Lastly storage is an interesting question because I could see standard high performance storage being put into the device. A lot more of that storage too, ideally such a device would start out with 256GB of Flash. Hopefully that is why Toshiba is going balls to the wall.

So $800 is easy to hit for the hardware.


Dave

Hey man.

I was just asking in the other thread if you and Ireland remembered that it was just the few of us in the future hardware that that knew that this product was coming while the rest of the community was making fun of us. Making fun of us for two looooong years.

Now look. Now all of a sudden people believe and want to buy it as if they knew all along.
The naysayers used to make fun of us do you remember? Now, just like the dinosaurs, the naysayers are all but extinct....dead underground about to transform into crude oil and fossils.

Whos da man now hmmm? hmmmmm??????

Olternaut, I was with ya too... but two years? It's a lot longer than that for me... but yes, they may have pointed fingers, they may have even mocked but who is finally getting the...

Lemme hold on to that though for now...

Dave

I was about to say we'll be getting the last laugh. But ultimately I think it's Steve Jobs himself who will be getting the last laugh.

I'm just going to jump in here....see the Patent filed by Apple for inking in "Pen-aware computer systems"- (USPTO) NOTE: apologies to Apple et al, if I am posting about this, but it IS a public document:

http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=...iew+first+page

There are references to a "Pen driver, "Tablet specific driver", "ink manager", "handwriting recognition manager".......etc. Be sure to click on directionals that will take you to all 16 pages of this Patent Filing registered on July 21st 2009.

Beautiful rendering, TacoJohn. How about some sort of flipped-able camera built into the top edge so that we can do iChat/Skype as well as take quick snaps!

I like your vision on this device. My wife and I are conjuring up our own personal list.

Yeah, this here bandwagon is starting to get a bit crowded as of late...

Well, all I want to say is, I'm amazed. You're the only person, who wants a big ipod touch instead of a macbook tablet. But let me tell you that not a lot of people share your view, and I'm sure apple won't just release a big ipod touch. It'll be a failure that way. It has to be something that can do almost everything (if not everything) that a netbook can do and more, and also in a much much more enjoyable way (I didn't say easier, no keyboard!)

You are being too pessimistic. Ofcourse all the apps need to be developed to work well with touch. But its not as big a project as you think it is. The underlying software is ready any way. They just need to redesign the UI to work well with touch and it done. Make the buttons bigger, strip down some less required featured and you're done. Apple has a knack of surprising people this way. Remember when they announced their switch to intel, and told how OS X had been compatible for 5 years....

If they could do something like that. and keep it hidden for 5 years. Its totally possible that they have touch friendly versions of their software ready, for the release of the device. Also, you should remember, that this device has been in the making for a long long time. They've been waiting cuz they dont want it to fail like newton. The idea for the iphone came from this device. The touch controls were originally developed for this tablet.
When it comes out, if it ever does, it'll be the most amazing thing to hit the market!

Actually the unsubsidised iphone cost $435 now. That's how much AT&T pays apple per device. OK that is for bulk orders, so can stretch it to $500 at most.

For 300 extra dollars, you get a bigger screen, but also a much bigger box to put in the power. So its pretty possible for $800.

Also, intel is launching new chips in september, and the price of all the existing chips is bound to fall. It's very plausible to make an awesome tablet for 800.

Also considering the fact that all their notebooks are called macbook pro now. (apart from that old and obsolete model)

and the fact that they made snow leopard take up less space.

and P.A Semi..
and all the rumors
suggest that some revolution is in definitely in the works.

Another thing just struck me. remember how pages has a full screen view now. Most people hardly need it. Sure its cool, but it doesn't really server a purpose on their computers. However, it makes complete sense for a tablet with a 10" screen. You dont want to lose your whole screen by coovering them with buttons and controls. You want to work on the canvas, and have access to them when you need them.
I think apple has already made touch friendly versions for most of their 'key' apps.

Also this tablet will have a front facing camera for ichat, and a small click-wheel instead of the iphone home button. The click-wheel will work like command-tab function and help in multitasking. You cant really waste screen real estate on things like the dock. Just scroll to the app you want and click to switch to it.

Apple, filed a patent for an enhanced click-wheel sometime ago, so you do things like flick on it, there half a chance the tablet will get that enhanced click wheel.

Expecta thin bars on sides of the screen that expand to give controls in apps and the auto-hide., with the canvas taking center stage!

Its still not out yet you know. Don't speak too soon.

Agreed. Maybe. Totally. Yeah

I know right?

All the naysayers are going "I was wit u guys from da beginning!".

pleaseeee.

Agreed.

Also, lemme take this opportunity to temper my enthusiasm of this new device by saying that I'm disturbed at how Apple has become a bit too controlling of late. You all are seeing now how Apple not only denies apps for the iphone that might be offensive or would be potentially harmful.....
but they obviously also deny truly groundbreaking, innovative apps as well if it seems to threaten them or their buisness partners in any way. As well, they do no communicate to devs why apps are denied so as to give them the opportunity to correct the apps.

Very very disturbing trend indeed.

Even so, I'm still very much looking forward to this product and how it's revolutionary design will influence the entire computing industry as a whole.

Well you blew it in the first line of this post! I will be the first to say I'm looking for something more like a big iPod Touch rather than a scaled down Mac notebook.

History says otherwise.

When I here BS like the above I wonder if people even have a clue as to how powerful the current Touch based OS is or how easy extending it to support more features will be. I suspect it will be far easier for Apple to extend the Touch OS for more powerful devices than it will be to trim Mac OS for a new product. Beyond that I don't think Apple would spin it's wheels with development of the robust OS that is in iaphone with out plans to use it else where. We are talking a huge development effort that needs to be leveraged on more products.

Yeah and those APIs run under what? Let's here it Apples Mobile / iPhone OS.

The point you are missing is that is exactly what they have done with Touch. So what would be the point in making the Mac APIs even more complex? In any event you fail to realize how difficult doing what you describe is, especially keeping it compatible with existing software.

1.
Newton didn't fail it got axed. Big difference.
2.
Since we are talking about failures here, every tablet brought to market up till this time has been a failure. Every single one. Part of that is due to the use of an OS API simply not suitable for the job.
3.
Touch is a successful tablet API right now, extending it to support larger devices would lead to rapid user acceptance. It has proven to be suitable for the job.
4.
Both Touch and Mac OSes are based on the same underlying code so in a way this arguement is a bit silly. It is really a discussion about APIs for user apps. One good thing about Touch is that there is no legacy APIs to be supported.
5.
A touch device running Mac OS is a very bad idea if current programs designed for desktop interfaces can run on it. Going iPhone derived for the OS eliminates the possibility of running apps that don't work on the tablet. Apple needs a platfom for tablets that breaks from the past.

Yes it was which should make it obvious that something derived from iPhone OS is the likely development path. Think about it this project was shelved slightly to refocus on getting a cell phone out the door. This in effect means two years of solid development have likely gone into the OS since iPhones debut. IPhone OS is a trimmed down version of whatever this tablet OS was, it should be clear that capability beyound what we see in the iPhone is a real potential.

That remains to be seen, Apple has proven that it can screw up just about anything still. AIR is just the last example. Frankly there are even more ways to screw up a tablet. The most obvious way to screw it up would be to implement a poorly ported desktop OS on it. Really mucking up the hardware is an issue too.


Dave

Guys, go easy on the responses of Lord of the Rings' like proportions. Our modern minds can only read so much text in one sitting.

It is pretty clear that a small format tablet (9" 10" multi-touch screen) cannot be Mac. It won't run Mac OS X. This will not be a Mac tablet.

Why? Because Mac OS X runs desktop applications. And desktop applications, like Photoshop and Word and Maya and Pages, all assume that you have a screen, and a keyboard and a mouse.

The world has seen what happens when you port a desktop app onto a tablet. In 2006 Microsoft did just that. And it was a disaster.

Clue. When Apps think they are running on a desktop, and they are really running on a tablet, they don't magically improve, they are a mess. They are a train-wreck.

Apple does a lot of things, but shoving train-wreck user interfaces at its users is not something Apple likes to do.

If this machine comes out, it will run a custom interface, and applications designed for that interface.

Not iPhone Apps, not Macintosh Apps, but tablet apps. And every pixel in that interface will be hand-crafted to work on that format.


C.

If I have got my numbers right...
...each day the iPhone sells more units that the Newton did over its entire lifetime.

Now it might not have failed.
But it was not an unqualified success.

C.

Its taken me an hour to read all the posts on this thread, but its been worth it, all the technology, products and patents are converging:

a bit of background first tho:
I have one of those so-called Windows smartphones, WM6 powered, the hardware is ok, far too big, but the OS is rubbish, I have hardly used it, ever. My other half has an iPhone which does more, in a smaller form factor which is easier to hold and use, lovely

To the future:
I have an iPod touch, I use it all the time, over the air syncing with my calendar is so neat, my biggest worry is dropping it so it lives in a leather jacket with a flip top cover, problem solved

If a Mac mini was an Apple TV prototype (more likely a logical development) then what's a unibody aluminium Macbook Pro, or a Macbook Air? Combined with gestures on a trackpad.....

You have a viable template, the target OS must be SL, slimline Leopard, all solid state, a Newton for todays' market. I've never owned a Newton, but understand that they were much loved and admired with great functionality for the time.

If I was holding an $800 machine in one hand I wouldn't want to drop it unless it were rugged enough to cope with the fall - a unibody with screen protection sounds like a good start.

Half a Macbook Air (the screen half) but perhaps a bit thicker, the Air is a great exercise in packaging, even if powered by Inte,l so a unibody for strength and stiffness, with a downsized screen, powered by touchscreen gestures. Air tested the resistance to a machine without an optical drive and offered a usable solution (sharing over the ether)

Bluetooth if you really want data input, but I can type pretty well with two thumbs on an iPod touch in portrait mode.

But what else could you use it for?
With accelerometers, a mega gaming platform (I don't game, but lots of people do);
All the browsing you can handle
All the multimedia you can carry, streamed from your Apple TV perhaps
Would make a great combined input device for any Mac with a big enough display, like a 42" TV.

For e-books,Stanza is just great for e-book reading even on a Touch.

All the other stuff I can easily agree with, with the exception of perhaps 3G, otherwise what'll it do to the iPhone market?

There have to be some killer differentiators, features and benefits, otherwise, why bother? because there'd be no market for it at any price.

One final thought, if it comes out, it'll be right, it'll work and we'll all want one.

Vision is the thing your clarity lacks. It's only pretty clear now, because it hasn't been invented yet.

Guys, it will be a "Mac". If you can't see that then you aren't looking properly. This has to be something new, powerful, multi-touch etc. The only way this will blow the world away, and take off fully, is if it's full blown Multi-touch OS X. Get ready for Mac touch. Mac touch FTW!

What exactly is this "Mac" going to run?

Software does not write itself.

Is it's magic system software going to magically transform every piece of desktop software that has ever been written? Transform it so that it works properly on a tablet? Transform it, so that the software thinks that it has a large screen, - a physical keyboard and a mouse.
Will it re-write Photoshop? Will it re-code Maya? Will it even patch Pages?

And once it does, how will it map those mouse and keyboard inputs into the multi-touch tablet surface of the tablet? It will have to be great. Because if it is not perfect, user will get the impression that they are driving a car with chopsticks.

Ireland. You are fooling yourself. What you are hoping for is technically impossible. What you are hoping for is something that Microsoft made in 2006 and rapidly came to realise was useless.
And sold no computers. Zero. Zip. Nada. I counted them. Twice.

The reason the iPhone is good, the reason it is better than Windows Mobile is that the interface was created specifically for the form factor. It was not a half-assed attempt to shoehorn a desktop interface into a handheld. Instead we got a device with an interface engineered perfectly for a hand-held form-factor. An interface designed for the small screen size. An interface designed for a multi-touch interface.

I suspect that gave Apple some confidence.

If they produce a tablet, it will come with a tablet interface.

And that isn't going to drive desktop applications.
Besides, Apple don't want you to run Apps from DVDs.
They want you to run Apps from the App Store.

And deep in your heart of hearts. You know that to be true.

C.

Again, my deep conviction here with the OS of this device is that it will be a hybrid. It's not going to be a desktop OS converted for tablet use and it's not going to be a giant ipod touch. It will have feature and abilities similar to both types of systems yet be none of them.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.

You want details? Your going to have to wait for the debut......or the brave spy who leaks info.