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Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year - Page 2

post #41 of 332
You all are missing the obvious. If this pans out it'll be a Kindle killer.
post #42 of 332
If it meets Job's satisfaction ratings, chances are we will like it!

I'll settle for my 9" netbook with Ubuntu, meanwhile. Pretty viable for a couple hundred $.
post #43 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by randythot View Post

I prefer the bead-blasted aluminum of the MacBook Pro series.
Personally, I'm also curious if they will use glossy screen. I realize the glossy is nice from an ID standpoint because the glass is thicker and stronger, but I'm a matte fan.

Would a matte touch screen even be possible without being too susceptible to scratching or whatever?
If it's matte, it's not going to be (completely) smooth and you would simply be forcing dirt & oils into it.
post #44 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by vypergts View Post

You all are missing the obvious. If this pans out it'll be a Kindle killer.

Personally, I've enjoyed reading on the iPhone. You always have it with you and can pull it out and read for 10 min. Plus, you can buy one on a whim. I've read about 5 or 6 books.

In my day, you had to get dressed, put gas in the car, drive to the bookstore and hope they had what you wanted. If not, you took what they had! And we liked it!
post #45 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by vypergts View Post

You all are missing the obvious. If this pans out it'll be a Kindle killer.



The kindle gets more hype than sales. And barnes and noble has a larger ebook selection than the kindle. And their software runs on more devices
post #46 of 332
come on, AI, you can do much better than that.

- the view screen simply has to have the same aspect ratio of the iPhone/touch. or else iPhone apps won't work. duh.

- standard orientation will be landscape mode (which 3.0 specifically was expanded to support).

- there has to be a home button in a strip along the bottom, just like the iPhone/touch. duh.

- there won't be a chrome bevel around the edge. maybe a black one. or none. Apple has to visually differentiate this product just a bit stylistically from the touch. they like subtle differences like that.
post #47 of 332
Pic of Newton, Treo, iPhone, http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20080730/...iphone-480.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I highly doubt Apple will launch a 10" multitouch device. Why?
...iTablet is not the answer to netbooks.

This article is a little weird actually.
post #48 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

If this is real, I don't think you'd want to use it for lengthy document writing. You're going to be holding it in two hands, like an iPhone, typing with your thumbs on an onscreen keyboard, like an iPhone.

Dose the size of a MacBook Pro's keyboard increase when you move up from a 13" screen to a 15" or 17" screen? No.

Maybe people will sit it on a desk or their lap and type in landscape with both hands? You are making a major assumption that people would operate the tablet in the same manner as an iphone and that the onscreen keyboard would even be set up in a similar manner. If I were using this fictitious device I definitely wouldn't hold it by its base and type with two thumbs. If the rumors about the 10 inch screens are correct, holding the device by its base would be difficult and you would be asking for it to fall out of your hands. I see typing on this thing to be mostly a sit down affair and if you have to type while standing, it will be with one hand with the other hand/arm cradling the device. Who knows what Apple will do, I hope they do release it so I can find out.
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post #49 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by vypergts View Post

You all are missing the obvious. If this pans out it'll be a Kindle killer.

Reading in a eink device beats out any computer screen.

I have an iLiad and a Sony PRS-505 and I'll never change it for an iPhone o iTablet screen
post #50 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

The lighter, the better. 300 g or less would be great.

The smaller, the better. Pocketable would be great.

Firewire for repairs via Target Disk Mode.

At least two USB 2 ports for wireless remote control and pendrive.

Ethernet port.

Wifi.

Bluetooth.

Touch screen.

Full and true GPS (TomTom compatible).

Full Mac OS X for full blown presentations from NATIVE Apple Keynote and Microsoft PowerPoint via video-out port to videoprojectors (with VGA adapter cable).

We need thousands for our University.

in other words, "all the same features as the more expensive laptops, PLUS the iPhone, and with a lower price tag."

How very realistic of you...
post #51 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by vypergts View Post

You all are missing the obvious. If this pans out it'll be a Kindle killer.

It won't be a dedicated device, nor will it be designed to kill any single device. Much like the iPhone, it would have the potential to kill/change many markets. It would compete with netbooks, and it would compete with the kindle, and who knows what else.
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post #52 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Wow...you broke my hyperbole meter! ...

In the context of the story, if the details are correct about going back to the drawing board several times, changing processors in mid-stream, Steve approving (or not) from his hospital bed, and cancelling a previous project, then this isn't actually hyperbole at all. It's glowing praise for Mr. Jobs, but entirely within the facts.

I'm excited about the time-frame (even though I would like to use one sooner), because it seems to imply that this is a portable "Mac" and not an "iPod" given that it will be released when the Macs are released. I think this indicates the long awaited re-vamping of the Mac line-up. Making it either a new "MacBook" or at least making it part of a strategy that includes a new MacBook.
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post #53 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Maybe people will sit it on a desk or their lap and type in landscape with both hands? You are making a major assumption that people would operate the tablet in the same manner as an iphone and that the onscreen keyboard would even be set up in a similar manner. If I were using this fictitious device I definitely wouldn't hold it by its base and type with two thumbs. If the rumors about the 10 inch screens are correct, holding the device by its base would be difficult and you would be asking for it to fall out of your hands. I see typing on this thing to be mostly a sit down affair and if you have to type while standing, it will be with one hand with the other hand/arm cradling the device. Who knows what Apple will do, I hope they do release it so I can find out.

Typing on an iPhone (or any similar device) by laying it on the table and typing like it's a mini-typewriter is ridiculously inefficient. If you are using your iPhone this way you are "doing it wrong" as they say.

Something in a similar aspect ratio to an iPhone (a reasonable assumption after all), would be rather easy to thumb type on and rather difficult to type on the way you suggest. I would predict that as a "media tablet" it would have a way of propping itself up or sit in a dock that performs a similar function. Bluetooth keyboards (Apple's is already in the same kind of form factor), would be the most obvious solution for those that insist on typing the "old-fashioned" way.

More importantly, a tablet that you *can't hold in one hand comfortably, would rule out half of the uses that a tablet could be used for and a tablet that *must* be put on a table and typed on like an old typewriter would rule out a lot more uses. One of the central reasons that tablets haven't caught on so far is that they have to be held in the crook of ones arm (because they are so bulky and heavy) and then awkwardly poked at with a stylus held in the opposite hand.
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post #54 of 332
I just like to know how do the ergonomics of such a tablet device work?

Surely you are not meant to type with just your thumbs while holding the device in your hand, so does that mean you set it flat onto a table to type? I haven't even used a traditional laptop like that in years (have an external keyboard and an iCurve). Even if just for 20 minutes at Panera Bread, it is hard to visualize hunching over a flat to the table device and typing.

If Apple includes a whole docking and accessory ecosystem with such a device, then I could see the usefulness of having a tiny, flat device you can take to any friend's house and easily attach to their dock and have access to your computer.

How would someone use this device and for what purposes? Maybe if you eliminate typing on it as a main function, just an Internet browser and application device would be useful in such a form factor?
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post #55 of 332
I would be scared to scratch the screen when carrying it in my backpack. A big beautiful screen like that and no way to fold it up. Maybe a leather case?
post #56 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I highly doubt Apple will launch a 10" multitouch device. Why?

-A 10" inch capacitive multitouch screen of 1024x600 moreless resolution in expensive.

Why does it have to be 1024x600?

Quote:
-To last an acceptable time, it have to have a good battery so it adds weigth to the device

The iPhone battery doesn't weigh much. Besides, this device will have flash memory and less moving parts than a full laptop.

Quote:
-Working with a tablet it's the epitome of poor ergonomy. You must to hold it with the two hands so to write (in a virtual keyboard) you have to hold with one hand (tired) and write with the other, or hold it flat and look at it vertically and write.

Or you put it flat on a table or on your lap sitting down and then type with the virtual keyboard.

Quote:
I have never understood why everyone is willing to have an iTablet.

Because it's Apple's answer to the netbook. Besides, ModBooks sell fairly well.

Quote:
Please, make a 10"-11" Macbook and then yes, this can be the answer to netbooks, but an iTablet is not the answer to netbooks.

Apple saw the small, cramped keyboards on netbooks and concluded rightly that having a physical keyboard would be an impediment to the functionality of the device.
post #57 of 332
If Apple is going to use ARM chips, then in makes me doubt that they are using full blown OS X in the traditional sense. That's also means one can't use Mac OS X software on this device. Because of these limitations, it's more likely to be an extension of the iPhone OS to the n-th degree, than trying to dumb down all of Mac OS X so that it runs smoothly on this portable device (and yes, I know that the iPhone OS IS Mac OS X, but the presentation is VERY different compared to the backend code).
post #58 of 332
Will it be called the Knowledge Navigator?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLqJNDWx-8
post #59 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by randythot View Post

I prefer the bead-blasted aluminum of the MacBook Pro series.
Personally, I'm also curious if they will use glossy screen. I realize the glossy is nice from an ID standpoint because the glass is thicker and stronger, but I'm a matte fan.

That it true for a lot of users, although my beef was with the bloody fingerprints on my iPhone rather than reflectivity, which prompted using an anti-glare film on the glass. That being said there is plenty of technology available to do the micro-etching necessary to produce an anti-glare glass surface unless the coatings they use for it are compromised with that kind of surfacing. Geee, guess we will have to wait and see.
post #60 of 332
I was really hoping for a device with roughly four times the screen real estate of an iPhone, which translates into somewhere around a six inch diagonal.

That would make a device that's pocketable (in a coat or jacket pocket), but not so big that you'd need a backpack to carry it. It would also make a good 'tween device for when you need more than your iPhone, but don't want to carry that 15" MacBook Pro. Make it too large (and 10" is too large) and you might as well carry a full-fledged notebook and be done with it.

A six-inch screen would be a near perfect ebook reader for most texts, a great TV and movie media device, and a killer portable game machine. Email and web browsing, already fairly good on the iPhone, would be more than adequate when done on a high-resolution screen 4x the size.

A smaller device means less weight, and a smaller screen translates into better battery life. A good media player/game pad needs at least eight hours running at full blast, 12-16 hours as a mere ebook reader/web browser.

Come on Apple, I want a pad, not a tablet.
post #61 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

Why does it have to be 1024x600?

Moreless, but higher resolutions in a 10" aren't very confortable


Quote:
The iPhone battery doesn't weigh much. Besides, this device will have flash memory and less moving parts than a full laptop.

You can't compare a ¿600? MHz device with a 3.5" 480x320 screen to a mobile computer with a 10" 1024x screen

Quote:
Or you put it flat on a table or on your lap sitting down and then type with the virtual keyboard.

Poorly ergonomic

Quote:
Apple saw the small, cramped keyboards on netbooks and concluded rightly that having a physical keyboard would be an impediment to the functionality of the device.

And the answer is a lesser functional device to work with?
post #62 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

Why does it have to be 1024x600?



The iPhone battery doesn't weigh much. Besides, this device will have flash memory and less moving parts than a full laptop.



Or you put it flat on a table or on your lap sitting down and then type with the virtual keyboard.



Because it's Apple's answer to the netbook. Besides, ModBooks sell fairly well.



Apple saw the small, cramped keyboards on netbooks and concluded rightly that having a physical keyboard would be an impediment to the functionality of the device.

there is also cost

people buy acer's because you can get a decent one for $299 with no contract. and it's cheap enough that if it breaks you won't care and just get another one. A $500 tablet that requires a 2 year contract will make people think twice about buying it.
post #63 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Maybe people will sit it on a desk or their lap and type in landscape with both hands? You are making a major assumption that people would operate the tablet in the same manner as an iphone and that the onscreen keyboard would even be set up in a similar manner.

I think it's a reasonable assumption to make. The MacBook Air is 3 pounds. Take its display/housing off, shrink it 3" diagonally, and make it a tad thicker and heavier. If Apple was going to make a tablet, don't you think that's a pretty realistic depiction? Now imagine how light and thin that would be, maybe a pound, pound and a half? For reference, Dell's Mini 10 is 2.6 pounds.

Holding a slender, 1-1.5 pound device in landscape (or perhaps even in portrait) would not be that much of a strain. More importantly, holding it in both hands for typing, like an iPhone, would be far more comfortable than 1) propping the device up using a stand in order to have a comfortable viewing angle, forcing your wrists to type at an uncomfortable angle or 2) laying the device flat for a comfortable typing angle for your wrists, forcing you to uncomfortably crane your neck over the flat display.
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post #64 of 332
The question is: Would the chipset run Snow Leopard, iPhone OS, ...both?

Yes yes, these are both OSX-based, so what's a third OSX-based OS? But a lot of SL's enhancements (zoom slider bars, etc) look like features specifically aimed at a user with an iPhone-like touch device. ...So maybe SL will be able to run on this new device?

If so, then all of the macbook air programs (remote install, etc) would be patched over.... mobileme would be pimped as the ideal way to sync one's life between home, tablet, iphone... It would be consistent, at least.

Wildcard: As an ARM-based design, it might also be able to run some/all iPhone OS applications (a huge "if", I know). This seems very unlikely to me, but the possibility does exist... and it would open up all sorts of possibilities for programmers...
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post #65 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

people buy acer's because you can get a decent one for $299 with no contract. and it's cheap enough that if it breaks you won't care and just get another one. A $500 tablet that requires a 2 year contract will make people think twice about buying it.

That's a good point - you don't really want a portable thing to be expensive. You spend all your time worrying about it - will it be stolen, broken etc.
post #66 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

And allow tethering with the iPhone.

I don't get the whole tethering thing. For business, pretty much every time I'm on a call I need the internet at the same time. Does tethering allow simultaneous voice and data while connected to another device?

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post #67 of 332
An artist's rendering is created by selecting the iPhone image in Photoshop and click-dragging a corner handle?

Artist rendering my ass.
post #68 of 332
Gawd damnit! I wish I could be happy about all this. This woulda been my thread to own with "mactouch ftw" and endlessly taunting the naysayers. But........
post #69 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr0ckett View Post

I'd hope that the artist's rendition has been changed... while the iPhone is a pretty device, I'd rather have some brushed aluminum... I say, make it look like a macbook air in terms of the curves, but no hinged screen.

Amen! I totally agree. It looks like it is wearing a diaper. Brushed metal and something sleeker than the chrome ring would be more appealing.
post #70 of 332
Wow, kudos AI for a great article!
post #71 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Typing on an iPhone (or any similar device) by laying it on the table and typing like it's a mini-typewriter is ridiculously inefficient. If you are using your iPhone this way you are "doing it wrong" as they say.

Something in a similar aspect ratio to an iPhone (a reasonable assumption after all), would be rather easy to thumb type on and rather difficult to type on the way you suggest. I would predict that as a "media tablet" it would have a way of propping itself up or sit in a dock that performs a similar function. Bluetooth keyboards (Apple's is already in the same kind of form factor), would be the most obvious solution for those that insist on typing the "old-fashioned" way.

More importantly, a tablet that you *can't hold in one hand comfortably, would rule out half of the uses that a tablet could be used for and a tablet that *must* be put on a table and typed on like an old typewriter would rule out a lot more uses. One of the central reasons that tablets haven't caught on so far is that they have to be held in the crook of ones arm (because they are so bulky and heavy) and then awkwardly poked at with a stylus held in the opposite hand.

I'm an engineer, so I guess I overlooked the fact that some people wouldn't be able to visualize this. You can thumb type on the iphone because your fingers extend beyond the iphones center of mass. As you scale up to a device with an 10" screen, this may not be the case anymore.

To visualize this, grab your iPhone (or anything of a similar shape and size) and hold it as you would if you were typing and note where your fingers are on the back of the device (they are probably at least halfway up). Now move your fingers so they are no more than a third of the way up the device and try to keep it in your hand without placing any pressure on the front of the device from your thumbs. You can't. If you take the pressure off the front, your device will flip out of your hands and smash into the floor.*

Now maybe Apple could make the device very bottom heavy to offset this, although I don't think that would meet their design standards as it would feel weird in landscape mode. Without having this tablet in my hands, I can't say for sure, but I don't think thumb typing will be a reasonable option on a 10" tablet. On second thought, they could put the virtual keyboard in the center of the device, but that would be very strange.

Edit: Perhaps the pressure you add to the sides and top (edge) of the device with your palms would be sufficient to offset the moment generated by not holding the device past its center of mass, bit even so I doubt the tablet will be designed for thumb typing like the iPhone unless they did something like split the keyboard into right and left halves and move the keboard higher up on the screen. A tablet is just to big for thumb typing as we know it.

*I take no responsibility if you actually drop and break your iPhone.
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post #72 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

wife and I have 2 iphones. 3G and 3GS and like them. unlike Mac's these actually have the most powerful hardware on the market in their category. we have the internet everywhere we have a cell phone signal. and they replace a few other devices on the go.

what exactly is the point of this tablet except as a complementary device?

I completely agree with you. I'm not sure if later posts have addressed the issue i have with this report but...

When you already have the iPhone (or any other cell phone for that matter) why would you want to have this device and have to shell out whatever extra money to Verizon or any other provider? Seems like a complete rip-off consumer-gouge if you ask me. Why not just make it either tether to the iPhone for 3G and integrated WiFi everywhere else? It's obvious that this device is portable, but not in the sense of in-your-pocket portable. This is definitely not what I expected in a bad way.

To me, this device is really only useful in places where a strong WiFi already exists (i.e. Schools, Airports, Malls, Homes, etc...) I think if this report is true that it's going to have cellular connectivity, then apple really missed the mark.

I was hoping for something a little more simple, like if the iPhone and the Kindle were combined. and in the price range of $299.
post #73 of 332
Oh, also, I think it will be called a MacBook. It seems very odd to me that the current MacBook is basically in one configuration (I know there are plenty of BTO options but it is essentially one standard configuration) and is the only non-Unibody laptop that they have. Branding this tablet as the MacBook and discontinuing the current plastic one will also allow for some construction cost savings. I can see this tablet following along with the iPhone and iPod touch in its design for economy of scale cost savings.
post #74 of 332
I think a lot of posters here are thinking from inside the box.

Clearly, given the number of patents awarded and applied for in the last many years, Apple intends to make the keyboard (and mouse of course) less and less important. Gestural and voice interfaces (and chording between the two, certainly) will give them opportunities for user interfaces that make the current keyboard/mouse requirements look stone-aged. Consider just how the iPhone interface tossed the salad - even the newest Verizon Android phone has now gone keyboardless. We can see Apple's progression as Voice Control came in 3.0, and 4-finger gestures came available for the PowerBook. They are gathering lots of experience and data about all of that, and I believe they will be uniquely positioned to cut into some new ground here.

I believe that the iPhone was the success that it was because it is a platform - not a specific niche killer. It's the fact that we'll be able to read our kindle books on a larger screen (although I also am fine with the iPhone's display for my books) that will kill kindle - but not the technology of it, the fact that I can now have a single device that does that and so much more. That's the part of my iPhone that rocks: one little device does SO MANY things.

So to answer a poster from the first page about why this device should exist, I'd answer this: my wife and I both have Power Macs on the desk, carry PowerBooks in our briefcases and iPhones. The missing connection is a reasonably full computer that I can carry in my bag ie., smaller than my notebook but more powerful than my iPhone. Something that is bigger and better for watching movies on a plane, but not too big that I require my briefcase. Small enough to hold in my hands to read a book, but powerful enough to VPN into my cage and do some real work.

I'd probably get a bluetooth headset and go all Skype/Truphone for telco, carrying the cheapest of cheap phones for out-of-network 911 calls only. I think that this has the possibility of really being the missing link and am damn excited.
post #75 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't get the whole tethering thing. For business, pretty much every time I'm on a call I need the internet at the same time. Does tethering allow simultaneous voice and data while connected to another device?

I haven't tested it out, but I would assume (hope) so.

I would want tethering on this device simply for the fact that I woudn't want bills coming from two different wireless service providers, not to mention that tethering is free on rogers at the moment. If the tablet was capable enough, my old macbook pro would no longer travel with me, and tethering would allow me to use the tablet to browse the internet on a larger screen in hotels without wifi, or anywhere where I will be stationary for a while.
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post #76 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

I would not be surprised if we learn some day that the key to allowing this type of device to finally happen was the rewrite of the last pieces of Mac OS X in Cocoa.

me either. It's been my understanding that the touch interface is all written in Cocoa.
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post #77 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I completely agree with you. I'm not sure if later posts have addressed the issue i have with this report but...

When you already have the iPhone (or any other cell phone for that matter) why would you want to have this device and have to shell out whatever extra money to Verizon or any other provider? Seems like a complete rip-off consumer-gouge if you ask me. Why not just make it either tether to the iPhone for 3G and integrated WiFi everywhere else? It's obvious that this device is portable, but not in the sense of in-your-pocket portable. This is definitely not what I expected in a bad way.

To me, this device is really only useful in places where a strong WiFi already exists (i.e. Schools, Airports, Malls, Homes, etc...) I think if this report is true that it's going to have cellular connectivity, then apple really missed the mark.

I was hoping for something a little more simple, like if the iPhone and the Kindle were combined. and in the price range of $299.




Think of this tablet as a new MacBook. You will be able to run desktop grade apps (eg. Photoshop) on it.

See my other post right above.
post #78 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Oh, also, I think it will be called a MacBook. It seems very odd to me that the current MacBook is basically in one configuration (I know there are plenty of BTO options but it is essentially one standard configuration) and is the only non-Unibody laptop that they have. Branding this tablet as the MacBook and discontinuing the current plastic one will also allow for some construction cost savings. I can see this tablet following along with the iPhone and iPod touch in its design for economy of scale cost savings.

I don't think so. Books have a front and back cover, this doesn't.

The only way I can see this having the term "book" in the name is if it was marketed heavily as an ebook reader.
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post #79 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post

me either. It's been my understanding that the touch interface is all written in Cocoa.


It is.
post #80 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I don't think so. Books have a front and back cover, this doesn't.

The only way I can see this having the term "book" in the name is if it was marketed heavily as an ebook reader.


I understand and I have thought about that point but I wouldn't put it past Apple.
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