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post #81 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

When will Ballmer admit that he is not tech guy? Here is another way for Microsoft investors to see their stock go down. Sell now and leave your misery behind, a perfect advice to Microsoft investors.
What we witnessed today in the stock market with Microsoft stock is a trend that will never cease.

If they follow this model, I don't think they will succeed. But I don't think it takes a tech guy to make a successful tech company. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to be any more of a tech guy than Ballmer but has operated two successful tech companies. I think the difference is a certain kind of business savvy that Ballmer will never acquire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

this is simple. the guru bar will explain that the solution to any problem is to buy a copy of windows 7.

your hard drive failed? a new hard drive [with windows 7 preinstalled] will fix that. video card issues? you need a new video card compatable with win7, and we can upgrade you to win7 with that. start key broken? upgrade to windows 7 and get a keyboard 20% off.

Clearly they will have to come up with a model that will pay for the service. Microsoft's take per product is less than Apple's that they will either have to charge for it or try to push things on people they don't need to fix the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

I have to believe that the Guru Bar is a joke.
That is, MS has no intention of having such a thing in their stores (where you can't actually buy anything except a Xbox and a mouse).

If it's real, I don't see why it's a joke. I do see this as likely just one of many concepts under consideration, hopefully it's been abandoned for something that's different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randythot View Post

I believe that this looks more like an analysis of the Apple Store and what makes it successful and effective. Hence, they actually include photos of Apple Store components.

If that's the case, why did they need those slides with mock-ups showing Microsoft brand cut & paste substitutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.

Why not? Just tell me where is the Microsoft originality is here. I don't see how this would be anything but a tacit admission that Microsoft is a follower, not a leader. And a wholesale rip-off of someone else's design.

Quote:
But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?

First, explain Microsoft's hypocrisy in claiming innovation while just substituting their own names and logos in this concept. If it were an academic paper or a book, this would be called plagiarism.

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Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.

That would be nice, but they have to be converted into production units first.
post #82 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by rplat View Post

This is unbelievable . . . has Microsoft ever had a truly original idea?

This is what i mean about hypocrites apple does the same thing.
post #83 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If they follow this model, I don't think they will succeed. But I don't think it takes a tech guy to make a successful tech company. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to be any more of a tech guy than Ballmer but has operated two successful tech companies. I think the difference is a certain kind of business savvy that Ballmer will never acquire.



Clearly they will have to come up with a model that will pay for the service. Microsoft's take per product is less than Apple's that they will either have to charge for it or try to push things on people they don't need to fix the problem.



If it's real, I don't see why it's a joke. I do see this as likely just one of many concepts under consideration, hopefully it's been abandoned for something that's different.



If that's the case, why did they need those slides with mock-ups showing Microsoft brand cut & paste substitutions?



Why not? Just tell me where is the Microsoft originality is here. I don't see how this would be anything but a tacit admission that Microsoft is a follower, not a leader. And a wholesale rip-off of someone else's design.



First, explain Microsoft's hypocrisy in claiming innovation while just substituting their own names and logos in this concept. If it were an academic paper or a book, this would be called plagiarism.



That would be nice, but they have to be converted into production units first.

If surface is not in production then how did the att stores get them?

Who cares if microsoft is copying apple. Apple copies also so bashing microsoft for copying when apple does it is being a hypocrite.

The one thing microsoft is missing is tech who clearly know the product and can solve problems in person. I dont get why people state microsoft having this is a bad idea while apple doing the same exact thing is a good idea?
post #84 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

If surface is not in production then how did the att stores get them?

Now many of them have it? The article I found is basically prototype scale, something like a dozen or so made. Can you buy one? Surface looks very nice, but having one on the floor has to pay for itself and its space somehow.

Quote:
Who cares if microsoft is copying apple. Apple copies also so bashing microsoft for copying when apple does it is being a hypocrite.

Name some specifics and we'll have a discussion. Usually when people name specifics, the reality isn't what they thought it was.

Quote:
The one thing microsoft is missing is tech who clearly know the product and can solve problems in person. I dont get why people state microsoft having this is a bad idea while apple doing the same exact thing is a good idea?

One key difference is that it's highly unlikely that MS will implement it well.
post #85 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Can i ask a question. IF the microsoft store matches an apple store why is it that you guys bash the microsoft store and not the apple store.

I don' think anyone here is saying the Apple Store idea is a bad one. We're complaining that Microsoft is planning on making a near exact copy of that idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

My personal opinion is that this could help microsoft i na big way. The number one complaint i get as a pc tech outside of work is about not having a store to go to for help (i dont mean best buy).

Have you been reading the replies? A lot of people asking just how Microsoft Stores will help customers. Microsoft doesn't make the hardware so it's unlikely they will have robust hardware support. Software wise, they can only help with OS and Office issues. Apple Stores on the other hand can with just about anything on the Mac because they make it. Hardware, OS, iPhoto, iTunes, GarageBand, iWeb, iMovie, iDVD, Mobile Me, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iChat and on and on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

But my main thing is why are you guys being hypocrites about this?

Ps I thin kthe Microsoft surface and Project Natal being in every store could be one advantage over the apple stores.

As I think I've shown, no one is being hypocritical. We're upset and saddened that Microsoft is choosing to copy another company instead of coming up with it's own unique ideas. We also have serious questions about how this venture will make money and help the customers.

As for Surface and Natal, well Surface is not a consumer product and won't be for quite a while and Natal is not scheduled for release until spring 2010. So basically these technologies while maybe fun to play around with are nothing a consumer can buy and won't help their bottom line. At best they can generate hype and a reason to visit the store. Not the worst idea, but not the best either.
post #86 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

SNIP

Customers could even set aside parts of the store for paid private events, such as custom group training or, oddly enough, birthday parties.

SNIP

ms bob could add a touch of ronald mcdonald! classy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

SNIP

Where Microsoft would differentiate itself is in the technology behind the shopping experience. Instead of static graphics, a giant store-length display would advertise new products and change with the season or with major launches.

Giant BSOD as a backdrop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

SNIP

Company executives have previously sworn that the stores wouldn't echo Apple "in the long term" ... SNIP

that's probably a true statement...
...they will be shut down after ballmer gets fired
post #87 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Who cares if microsoft is copying apple. Apple copies also so bashing microsoft for copying when apple does it is being a hypocrite.

Sure, everyone copies, borrows or adapts other ideas, including Apple. That's how progress occurs.

The DIFFERENCE is that Microsoft has often tried to claim that they are the originators of ideas that clearly originated elsewhere.

When you use others' ideas and then try to claim that idea as wholly your own, THAT is STEALING.
THAT is what Microsoft has done historically. They do this and try to claim that this somehow makes them an "innovative" company with "fresh ideas", while the exact opposite is true. Microsoft is a MARKETING company, NOT a creative company.

One can say that Apple "stole" many original concepts from Xerox PARC. Apple admits that they used, adapted, developed and brought to market many concepts, but they don't claim the original concepts as theirs alone.
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post #88 of 169
original article mention sony style as well, the post here (as usual) fail to mention anything other then apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Microsoft is a MARKETING company, NOT a creative company.

very true, they marketing geniuses; how they put sh*t on 80 some % of the computers is beyond me. M$ always looked to me as a used car sales agent.
post #89 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

The DIFFERENCE is that Microsoft has often tried to claim that they are the originators of ideas that clearly originated elsewhere.

In this case they clearly are not pretending anything other than that they are basing their 'retail' efforts on Apple's very successful efforts. I think it is a calculated risk. They will be slated for copying apple briefly, and then critics will move on to assess what the store is actually like and what the user experience is like. In the future all PC stores will be based on whatever Apple does. In other words Apple has redefined the PC shopping experience for all, not just for Apple shoppers. Whether MS can make the concept work for them (Guru Bar) is another story to unfold. I, like most people her, would like to think not, but who knows. Copying successful innovators is nothing new for MS not for others, Apple included. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell does the same thing. As far as the general public is concerned I am sure they will flock to the MS store (Bing Store?) if MS can make a reasonable go of it.
post #90 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

original article mention sony style as well, the post here (as usual) fail to mention anything other then apple.

I worked on the original Sony Style store and Sony Wonder at 550 Madison Avenue, NYC back in 1993, for the display company... engineering, prototyping and installing all the display fixtures. Lots of steel fabrications and a very cool and pretty fun project (except for the assholes I worked for). Edwin Schlossberg Design (Caroline Kennedy's husband) was the design firm.
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post #91 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

original article mention sony style as well, the post here (as usual) fail to mention anything other then apple.

You mean Gizmodo's article? The AI article did mention Sony's, Nike's and AT&T's stores, though in just one or two sentences. AI's article does mention things that they didn't show the related slides.

It looks like a marketing company's work, so it may be a little unfair to rag on Microsoft, but still, they had to hire an outside company to do something that they should have been able to do in house.
post #92 of 169
Guru bars??? HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!! Those guys have absolutely no shame (or brains)!
post #93 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

microsoft bob?

Hehe, was just about to say that myself.
post #94 of 169
Wow - I think Steve Jobs said it best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcU
post #95 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscottmyers View Post

Wow - I think Steve Jobs said it best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcU

A perfect example. But listen to Jobs . . . "culture", "taste", "beautiful fonts", "beautiful books", learning from the art of typesetting, etc.

These things were UNHEARD OF in the industry once upon a time. And now everyone is trying grab or evolve their own share of these things. But even then, there is really a standard when it comes to these things. And Apple is in tune with them in a big way. It's all about priorities. All about your attitude about how the user is supposed to interact with tech.

Apple treats devices like an extension of lifestyle. They are not mere tools, but a statement of an IDEAL. A deliberate reflection of the values and attitudes of the company that makes them, and a suggestion that tech doesn't have to be "technical" or cold; that tech doesn't have to be "learned" or "understood." It should function and feel as natural as possible.

This is why Apple has grown to be the guiding light of the entire tech industry. When you hear Jobs talk the way he did on that video, does Apple's success come as any surprise? And Jobs' ideas have penetrated deep into the entire culture at Apple. Jobs was out of the picture but the entire team did full justice to the Apple ideal. Bertrand Serlet came on stage and confidently said that Apple approaches the idea of tech "from a totally different place." There you go.

And Ballmer . . . he just seems like a middle-management salesguy who got promoted and is in the habit of making excuses. He's an embarrassment. The exact opposite of Jobs. And that's why MS is in the situation it's in. No vision and truly shitty leadership.

And that Steve Ballmer clip was done quite a while ago. And he's saying "just you watch, just you watch", etc.

Yeah, we saw. Vista. Windows Mobile. Zune. The list goes on. Yes, Ballmer, we saw. His tripe meant nothing then and seems to mean nothing now.
post #96 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

. Don't you guys have anything better to do with your Macs?

Better than to point out how Microsoft is... now how did Obama phrase it?, oh yeah... "acting stupidly"!

Don't PC companies like MS have anything better to do then not innovate?

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post #97 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.

How exactly are the tables supposed to be different then, make them circular instead of rectangular? The only thing that looks like a direct copy is the guru bar, but what good is a computer store without computer specialists?


Quote:
Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?

I probably would. Just to see what it's like and it actually looks pretty cool. Looks like there are many more things to do in the Microsoft store than the Apple store.
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post #98 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Customers could even set aside parts of the store for paid private events, such as custom group training or, oddly enough, birthday parties.

like Chuck E Cheese's?
post #99 of 169
How appropriate.
post #100 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

The Highest form of praise is Imitation.

Next week it is expected that Mr Balmer will hold a media event announcing and presenting MicroSoft's new concept for their upcoming stores. They may as well go whole hog and claim it all.

I am an Apple user and the surprising thing is I am not angry at this. I just know this organization is a parasite on society and the industry. The question is will they succeed killing their host or will their host take steps to control this parasite.

Respectfully submitted
HT

AND Steve Balmer will be wearing a black turtle neck and jeans.

Unfortunately, his belly will be hanging out from underneath the turtle neck and spill over the jeans, making the imitation/impersonation look only as good as the quality of his products....
post #101 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielchow View Post

like Chuck E Cheese's?

The first image I got was an animatronic Ballmer. I didn't need that. Rawr! Rawr! Rawwwwrrrrr! among squeaking noises.
post #102 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

An Apple customer usually approaches a genius bar for trivial things, the occasional failure, transferring data from an old Mac or (PC) to new Mac, and general questions. Usually can be resolved right then and there by an enthusiastic and competent staff that genuinely love what they do and believe in the products Apple sells.

The "Guru" bar on the other hand will be staffed by clueless wannabe hackers working at minimum wage with zero customer service skills and be expected to fend of the herds of angry, frustrated PC users with machines infested and corrupted with viruses, malware, trojans, corrupted registries, driver conflicts, and all other kinds of nasty instabilities. And they will be expected to resolve those problems while the customer waits.

What Microsoft would like for you to believe is that they will be there for you in the long haul to help with your problem. The reality is that MS will (again) realize they went way over their head, and the Guru bar will be shut down due to high costs and few results. I work on the side resolving PC / Windows problems (I'm a systems engineer) for frustrated friends and users that just could not get the kind help they needed. Even with my experience, there is no way whatsoever anyone could pay me enough to work behind that desk. Poor workers will be going into the lion's den every day. The turnover rate will be high, morale will be low and in the end, it will become more a liability and will result in really bad PR. Microsoft will silently close the stores and when questioned, will be referred to as an "Experiment".

All those hundreds of millions of dollars MS spends on advertising and this is the best they could come up with? Put the entire Apple store into a huge Xerox machine and press "Copy"??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Well said my friend.

I second. Well said.
post #103 of 169
Think Indifferent.

I hope Apple comes out with a "Laptop Hunter" TV ad of their own and goes into one of these MS stores to do a comparison using the PC and Mac guy. That would be hilarious!
post #104 of 169
Why is the guy above the Guru Bar licking?
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post #105 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Yeah, the torch and pitchfork crowd!

Somebody do a mock up of a MS store with an angry mob attacking it.
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post #106 of 169
Can't wait to go in and ask how to install and use safari.
post #107 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankenstein View Post

You forget that the main difference between Apples stores and Microsoft stores will be... The Microsoft stores won't be selling products that EXPLODE or CATCH ON FIRE, plus... The Microsoft stores will be selling products that are actually 'stable' and don't cost 5X the amount of the actual worth

Yup. You joined specifically to troll.
post #108 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankenstein View Post

You forget that the main difference between Apples stores and Microsoft stores will be... The Microsoft stores won't be selling products that EXPLODE or CATCH ON FIRE, plus... The Microsoft stores will be selling products that are actually 'stable' and don't cost 5X the amount of the actual worth

really? as though this is an everyday occurrence that is as everyday as spam bots and other viruses synonymous to Microsoft. at least the apple store doesn't get users flocking to its store trying to get its Geniuses to clear their system of any software viruses AND spam bots

what's the cost - time, ongoing effort to keep it clean, frustrations, con$ultations, etc after purchasing a Windows system?

my friends replaced their old windows system with another. i ended up as their fixer-upper. they couldn't figure out their new Vista. they hate it. however, in all fairness, perhaps it'd be a good thing that microsoft opens competing stores with Gurus (tsk, so innovative). next time my friends come crying to me about their windows computer system not working properly again, i'll send them off to a microsoft store. let their Gurus (them poor things, they'll be like sweepers following the elephants in a parade) take care of microsoft's slop.

please join me in a moment of silence for the gurus.
post #109 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankenstein View Post

You forget that the main difference between Apples stores and Microsoft stores will be... The Microsoft stores won't be selling products that EXPLODE or CATCH ON FIRE, plus... The Microsoft stores will be selling products that are actually 'stable' and don't cost 5X the amount of the actual worth

LOL! And what rock did you crawl out from under? Your posts are pure comedy gold!
post #110 of 169
I like the details in that graphic about the "Answer Bar." In maybe 100 words, they refer to the same thing with 3 different names: Answer Bar (the caption), GURU BAR (in the graphic itself), and Windows bar (in the text). That's consistency of vision for you.

And how about this nugget: "Real-time email notifications keep her [Emily who is waiting for a place at the Windows bar] informed of her place in line." Emails, really? "Real-time" emails? So she'll get a new email every 60 seconds to tell her how many people are still in front of her? Or maybe an email every time her position in line changes? That's awesome. I want Windows bar spam while I'm waiting in line. How about they just steal a page from Dominos Pizza and just make the information available on, say, a Web page?
post #111 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

This "concept" is a 100% copy of an Apple Store! Oh, gee, they changed the labels and use different typefaces. How original. Even the design of the tables is nearly an exact copy.

There are simply NO words to describe the pure and utter creative bankruptcy that Microsoft represents.

Who would actually go into one of these stores? And why?

Retail tech support? Wow what a concept. Except the MS Stores will have to fight off angry crowds.

I think the "Guru Bar" concept needs some razor wire, machine guns and attack dogs. Maybe a few no-neck Russian Mafia types lurking around or crowd "control". (In Bulgaria they call them mutra.)

My vision is of the New York City car towing place on the West Side, where you go to get your towed car. Everyone calmly lines up at the "teller" window to pay their fines and bail out their cars. But literally, EVERY person that goes up to the window suddenly yells at the poor bastard behind the bulletproof glass (it IS NYC!), launching into the vilest, funniest string of expletives and rancor you could ever imagine. If you weren't so goddam pissed off standing in line, you'd be laughing your head off, instead of waiting your turn to spew venom!

I'd say that'll be the "Guru Bar".

Oh my God!!! That was the funniest thing I've heard in a while. How I need to live in New York.
post #112 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckistani View Post

as are all of the other features that they seem to have copied BUT
How do you monetize these stores ?

What are you going to actually sell?

Apple stores have the largest sales dollars per sq ft of ANY retail outlet.

What does MS have to sell that will make these stores profitable ?

I can see it now .

My Acer is broken under Windows ...... Sorry we as MS do not support that hardware
Please call Acer .......NEXT LOL

So much for customer service at the Guru Bar

Precisely. Anyone ever read the OEM license TOS? It states the MANUFACTURE is responsible for support of your operating system.

Oh, the rolling joke about why it's called a "GURU" bar... All their tech support is from India. (it's a joke guys, laugh, you won the Tech Support job war).

New books:
MicroSutra (1000 ways to fix your system and LOVE it).
MicroKarma (the feeling of owning and operating a Microsoft based system)
post #113 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankenstein View Post

You forget that the main difference between Apples stores and Microsoft stores will be... The Microsoft stores won't be selling products that EXPLODE or CATCH ON FIRE, plus... The Microsoft stores will be selling products that are actually 'stable' and don't cost 5X the amount of the actual worth

You do realize it was SONY that created the batteries that caught fire... More PC laptops were equipped with them than Mac's. However only Apple publicly came out with a recall. Toshiba's answer was "..if you experience a overheating battery condition mail... 6-8 weeks for replacement.", yea I liked Apple's better, call or go online and we'll next day air a replacement.

My guess, you'll be #1 in line with the "I'm a PC" shirt at the first store. Zune plugs in ear and a busted laptop under each arm.
post #114 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

If they really want to generate Apple-esque lines around the block, they should offer free Vista to XP downgrades.

\\

That was way too funny...but true
post #115 of 169
I think they should just call it the "Bar" and sell booze. That way your Windows problem will just go away (eventually).
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post #116 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

You do realize it was SONY that created the batteries that caught fire... More PC laptops were equipped with them than Mac's. However only Apple publicly came out with a recall. Toshiba's answer was "..if you experience a overheating battery condition mail... 6-8 weeks for replacement.", yea I liked Apple's better, call or go online and we'll next day air a replacement.

My guess, you'll be #1 in line with the "I'm a PC" shirt at the first store. Zune plugs in ear and a busted laptop under each arm.

here's Bing's search result for "over heating laptop batteries"
http://www.bing.com/search?q=over+he...form=QBRE&qs=n

by the way, if you scroll down towards the end of Bing's search result page, you should notice "Shop for over heating laptop batteries »" so, anyone interested in buying overheating laptop batteries recommended by Bing?

post #117 of 169
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what does Microsoft have to sell of value? Just wondering.
post #118 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post

Perhaps I'm missing something, but what does Microsoft have to sell of value? Just wondering.

an utopia that keeps on failing, and a plethora of misnomers and oxymorons.

post #119 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielchow View Post

an utopia that keeps on failing, and a plethora of misnomers and oxymorons.


Those would be the people actually going into the store.
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post #120 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankenstein View Post

don't cost 5X the amount of the actual worth

I bet your boss is thinking the same thing!

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