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Blazing HOT Imac 24"/3.06

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Purchased Imac 24" in May 15, 2009 directly from Apple store. Immediately noticed very hot left side enclosure. Authorized Apple repair facility tested & found excessive heat & changed the power supply. With the new power supply, using photoshop or spreadsheets or CAD programs, the iMac gets hotter than with the original power supply. Fans appear to be running, but apparently unable to keep with the heat generation.

Apple repair says they can't do anything more since heat is not a hardware failure. Letters and phone calls to Apple Support remain unanswered. Currently, with the extreme heat, getting momentary scrambled page loads and frequent lock-ups.

As a retired engineer with 35 years of experience in the building automation industry, I have never seen computers or remote panel electronics subjected to this degree of heat without system degradation and premature failure.

Any feedback &/or solutions would be greatly appreciated!!
post #2 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Purchased Imac 24" in May 15, 2009 directly from Apple store. Immediately noticed very hot left side enclosure. Authorized Apple repair facility tested & found excessive heat & changed the power supply. With the new power supply, using photoshop or spreadsheets or CAD programs, the iMac gets hotter than with the original power supply. Fans appear to be running, but apparently unable to keep with the heat generation.

Apple repair says they can't do anything more since heat is not a hardware failure. Letters and phone calls to Apple Support remain unanswered. Currently, with the extreme heat, getting momentary scrambled page loads and frequent lock-ups.

As a retired engineer with 35 years of experience in the building automation industry, I have never seen computers or remote panel electronics subjected to this degree of heat without system degradation and premature failure.

Any feedback &/or solutions would be greatly appreciated!!

Gee, that doesn't sound right. Pure speculation... but it almost seems as if there's been some disconnect between the processor (or maybe some other component) and the heat sink system. Perhaps faulty or missing thermal paste?
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Purchased Imac 24" in May 15, 2009 directly from Apple store. Immediately noticed very hot left side enclosure. Authorized Apple repair facility tested & found excessive heat & changed the power supply. With the new power supply, using photoshop or spreadsheets or CAD programs, the iMac gets hotter than with the original power supply. Fans appear to be running, but apparently unable to keep with the heat generation.

Apple repair says they can't do anything more since heat is not a hardware failure. Letters and phone calls to Apple Support remain unanswered. Currently, with the extreme heat, getting momentary scrambled page loads and frequent lock-ups.

As a retired engineer with 35 years of experience in the building automation industry, I have never seen computers or remote panel electronics subjected to this degree of heat without system degradation and premature failure.

Any feedback &/or solutions would be greatly appreciated!!


My 15in 3.02 GHz burns real hot too./
its the chips
maybe turn on the aircondtioner
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beatles
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post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Gee, that doesn't sound right. Pure speculation... but it almost seems as if there's been some disconnect between the processor (or maybe some other component) and the heat sink system. Perhaps faulty or missing thermal paste?

Thanks for the feedback, Hudson1. I've read something similar about thermal paste on another site. I've also been advised that the video card may have been damaged or degraded by the extreme heat. My concern is what else may be damaged. If the video card is already bad after just 2 months use, what else is on the verge of premature failure.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get Apple's attention to replace this flawed iMac with a new computer that is not plaqued with these heat problems. I'm new to Apple, would like to stay with Apple, but to date, I'm not a very happy Apple consumer/user!!!!
post #5 of 24
Try running this software:

http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

It will let you see what the actual temperatures of your CPU and whatever supported sensors are reading.

Mobile parts can work with more heat - up to 90 degrees C - but generally, if you are going above 80 C, that's not healthy for the machine.

A couple of things to try are doing a safe boot by holding shift at startup and also doing an SMC reset ( http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1543 ). The safe boot rebuilds your kernel extensions cache, which contains your graphics drivers and fan control extensions.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Try running this software:

http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

It will let you see what the actual temperatures of your CPU and whatever supported sensors are reading.

Mobile parts can work with more heat - up to 90 degrees C - but generally, if you are going above 80 C, that's not healthy for the machine.

A couple of things to try are doing a safe boot by holding shift at startup and also doing an SMC reset ( http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1543 ). The safe boot rebuilds your kernel extensions cache, which contains your graphics drivers and fan control extensions.

Thanks Marvin,

I will try safe boot, but I have been advised by the authorized Apple repair facility that Apple takes a dim view of 3rd party temperature software. Since this iMac is under warranty, I will pass on that for now.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Try running this software:

http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

It will let you see what the actual temperatures of your CPU and whatever supported sensors are reading.

Mobile parts can work with more heat - up to 90 degrees C - but generally, if you are going above 80 C, that's not healthy for the machine.

A couple of things to try are doing a safe boot by holding shift at startup and also doing an SMC reset ( http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1543 ). The safe boot rebuilds your kernel extensions cache, which contains your graphics drivers and fan control extensions.

Marvin,

Performed a safe boot and SMC reset. Also used my digital temperature probe to measure the air temperature at the exhaust vent above the power supply. With the computer idling (not running any programs), the vent air temperature was 72c. It gets a lot hotter when using Photoshop to edit/fix photos or running Chief Architect (CAD).

Doesn't sound like a healthy iMac to me. Any additional assistance would greatly appreciated...
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Thanks Marvin,

I will try safe boot, but I have been advised by the authorized Apple repair facility that Apple takes a dim view of 3rd party temperature software. Since this iMac is under warranty, I will pass on that for now.

I think you might be misinterpreting what you heard about Apple's view of temperature monitoring software. It's likely it's the results they take a dim view of, not whether you run the software.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

I think you might be misinterpreting what you heard about Apple's view of temperature monitoring software. It's likely it's the results they take a dim view of, not whether you run the software.

Hudson,

If that's the case, Apple needs to take responsibilty for these HOT iMacs with a fix or design improvement. Taking a dim view of the results... fried components, premature failures, consumer downtime, ignoring the problems while units are still under warranty is not going to solve the HOT iMac issues... its going to make a lot of people like me very, very upset.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Performed a safe boot and SMC reset. Also used my digital temperature probe to measure the air temperature at the exhaust vent above the power supply. With the computer idling (not running any programs), the vent air temperature was 72c. It gets a lot hotter when using Photoshop to edit/fix photos or running Chief Architect (CAD).

Doesn't sound like a healthy iMac to me. Any additional assistance would greatly appreciated...

That does seem pretty hot at idle. Temperature software is ok as they just read sensors that are built-in. There are some cooling apps that modify the SMC firmware so that's probably the kind Apple don't like.

The software called SMCFanControl doesn't modify the SMC and lets you adjust the fan speed but it doesn't keep the machine from overheating as it's just a manual setting and resets after reboot:

http://www.eidac.de/?p=134

Given that you've already had a repair because the machine was found to be too hot, it seems likely what they fixed wasn't the issue - you might have a broken fan or something. You can use a widget like this one:

http://www.islayer.com/apps/istatpro/

It will just show in Dashboard and give you a readout of your CPU temps. They should be close to these temps:

http://www.intelmactemp.com/list?v_m...o=&v_postedby=

If the CPUs aren't heating up considerably, it may be another component inside the machine that is causing the problem.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
This blazing hot iMac is now locking up and page loads are momentarily scrambled with increased frequency. Logic board may be dying after just 2 months due to extreme heat.

An arrogant and condescending person from Steve Jobs office called and after running around the problem for 45 minutes finally offered to change out the logic board. When I asked him how this would solve the extreme heat problem and would Apple be prepared to changeout the new logic board in the next 2 months? This arrogant twit responded by saying I had a week to accept this offer without any conditions attached... like my rights under the terms and conditions of the Apple warranty??
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

This blazing hot iMac is now locking up and page loads are momentarily scrambled with increased frequency. Logic board may be dying after just 2 months due to extreme heat.

An arrogant and condescending person from Steve Jobs office called and after running around the problem for 45 minutes finally offered to change out the logic board. When I asked him how this would solve the extreme heat problem and would Apple be prepared to changeout the new logic board in the next 2 months? This arrogant twit responded by saying I had a week to accept this offer without any conditions attached... like my rights under the terms and conditions of the Apple warranty??

Its broke. Take it to an Apple store and show them the problem. It'll get fixed or replaced.

Many people who have a recurring problem with a Mac actually come out ahead. There are numerous stories of people who took their machines back for repair multiple times who had them replaced with much better machines.

Who knows, if it needs repair a second or third time you may wind up with a Nehalem iMac.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Its broke. Take it to an Apple store and show them the problem. It'll get fixed or replaced.

Many people who have a recurring problem with a Mac actually come out ahead. There are numerous stories of people who took their machines back for repair multiple times who had them replaced with much better machines.

Who knows, if it needs repair a second or third time you may wind up with a Nehalem iMac.

Thanks backtomac. I'm taking it back to the Apple store on the 18th. This will be the second return for the same reason... Blazing Hot when it runs CAD programs, Excel spread sheets converted to 3D graphics or Photoshop (so hot it increases the temperature in my work area, no kidding... global warming??)

I've measured the actual exhaust vent air temperatures in the 170's degrees F. and rising. Thermodynamically, when delta t is applied (minimum 20 degrees), that means electronic components are exposed in the 190's degrees F. The extent of delta t is somewhat dependent on the total heat content of intake air (total heat = dry bulb + wet bulb). Therefore, delta t could be 30 degrees.

Bottom line, the fan design is inadequate &/or the run setpoints are not set properly. I welcome all comments!!
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Thanks backtomac. I'm taking it back to the Apple store on the 18th. This will be the second return for the same reason... Blazing Hot when it runs CAD programs, Excel spread sheets converted to 3D graphics or Photoshop (so hot it increases the temperature in my work area, no kidding... global warming??)

I've measured the actual exhaust vent air temperatures in the 170's degrees F. and rising. Thermodynamically, when delta t is applied (minimum 20 degrees), that means electronic components are exposed in the 190's degrees F. The extent of delta t is somewhat dependent on the total heat content of intake air (total heat = dry bulb + wet bulb). Therefore, delta t could be 30 degrees.

Bottom line, the fan design is inadequate &/or the run setpoints are not set properly. I welcome all comments!!

Be polite but firm. Let them know that you would like the problem resolved for good this time.

Once you see a Genius more than likely your problem will be resolved to your satisfaction.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Be polite but firm. Let them know that you would like the problem resolved for good this time.

Once you see a Genius more than likely your problem will be resolved to your satisfaction.

Thanks again, backtomac, however in my big hurry with my last post, forgot the most important element of heat transfer... AIR FLOW.

If the fans are not sized properly or not running at the proper speed within their fan curves, there will be heat transfer problems. In my experience the best fan system is VAV (varible air volume). This fan system incrementally speeds up or slows down maintaining temperature setpoints within a degree or two regardless of supply air conditions.

The VAV fan system is far superior to multiple on/off constant air volume fans which cause much more electronic systems temperature fluctuation (thermoshock).

It seems apparent, judging from hundreds of iMac heat problems here and on other forums, that Apple engineers have not paid proper attention to effective heat transfer which is probably the most important factor to achieve system life cycle.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Thanks again, backtomac, however in my big hurry with my last post, forgot the most important element of heat transfer... AIR FLOW.

If the fans are not sized properly or not running at the proper speed within their fan curves, there will be heat transfer problems. In my experience the best fan system is VAV (varible air volume). This fan system incrementally speeds up or slows down maintaining temperature setpoints within a degree or two regardless of supply air conditions.

The VAV fan system is far superior to multiple on/off constant air volume fans which cause much more electronic systems temperature fluctuation (thermoshock).

It seems apparent, judging from hundreds of iMac heat problems here and on other forums, that Apple engineers have not paid proper attention to effective heat transfer which is probably the most important factor to achieve system life cycle.

I have a 20" iMac with the 2.66 ghz penryn cpu.

It has never gotten over 54 degrees Celsius. Even when my son and I are playing COD. NEVER. And COD works the cpu and gpu pretty hard. Granted my machine is 20% slower than yours, but you've a bigger enclosure to dissipate heat.

There is something wrong with your machine but I'm not convinced its a widespread design flaw.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I have a 20" iMac with the 2.66 ghz penryn cpu.

It has never gotten over 54 degrees Celsius. Even when my son and I are playing COD. NEVER. And COD works the cpu and gpu pretty hard. Granted my machine is 20% slower than yours, but you've a bigger enclosure to dissipate heat.

There is something wrong with your machine but I'm not convinced its a widespread design flaw.

backtomac,

If you haven't already, you might check out http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/06/ap...ats-some-macs/. Lots of HOT mac talk and links to more HOT mac talk.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

backtomac,

If you haven't already, you might check out http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/06/ap...ats-some-macs/. Lots of HOT mac talk and links to more HOT mac talk.

The fact that the overheating may be related to 10.5.7 suggests to me its not an engineering issue as you fear.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

The fact that the overheating may be related to 10.5.7 suggests to me its not an engineering issue as you fear.

Then I wonder why the authorized Apple repair facility found excessive heat, hardware faults and changed-out the power supply PRIOR to the software update.

In either case, software or engineering, the salient point is HEAT which most certainly is causing electronic component degradation and shortening the life cycle of the computer. Exhaust vent air temperature don't lie. This iMac is too HOT.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Then I wonder why the authorized Apple repair facility found excessive heat, hardware faults and changed-out the power supply PRIOR to the software update.

In either case, software or engineering, the salient point is HEAT which most certainly is causing electronic component degradation and shortening the life cycle of the computer. Exhaust vent air temperature don't lie. This iMac is too HOT.

My iMac was warm in normal use and a bit hot when gaming prior to 10.5.8, but it's much cooler after the update and it's seldom hot now.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokken View Post

My iMac was warm in normal use and a bit hot when gaming prior to 10.5.8, but it's much cooler after the update and it's seldom hot now.

Rokken,

Yesterday, I went to a Best Buy store and described my Blazing Hot iMac to a young sales person. He got on one of their demo 24" and played a game that he said was very intensive (I'm not a gamer) for about 10 minutes. When he started, the 24" was just warm. After about 10 minutes, it was just a bit warmer... comfortable to my hand on the top left side.

I have the 10.5.8 update, but when I run normal business programs... Excel, CAD, Project Manager, etc., etc., the left side top of my iMac gets so hot, I cannot hold my hand on the aluminum for more than a second... its that hot!!!

A very savvy computer friend of mine stopped by today to look at the 24". I asked him to put his hand on the top left side. He jerked his hand back and said it felt like putting his hand on a hot stove... definitely something wrong!!

We'll see what the Apple store people have to say on the 18th.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
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post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

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post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdman View Post

Rokken,

Yesterday, I went to a Best Buy store and described my Blazing Hot iMac to a young sales person. He got on one of their demo 24" and played a game that he said was very intensive (I'm not a gamer) for about 10 minutes. When he started, the 24" was just warm. After about 10 minutes, it was just a bit warmer... comfortable to my hand on the top left side.

I have the 10.5.8 update, but when I run normal business programs... Excel, CAD, Project Manager, etc., etc., the left side top of my iMac gets so hot, I cannot hold my hand on the aluminum for more than a second... its that hot!!!

A very savvy computer friend of mine stopped by today to look at the 24". I asked him to put his hand on the top left side. He jerked his hand back and said it felt like putting his hand on a hot stove... definitely something wrong!!

We'll see what the Apple store people have to say on the 18th.

So, what did the Apple Store people tell you?
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