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8 Killed in Car Crash

post #1 of 49
7/26/09 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/ny...er=rss&emc=rss

Add two american minivans with their crappy handling and subpar safety design to 1 very stupid driver and the result is 8 dead.

That is why my next car will be a BMW. Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.
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post #2 of 49
7/26/09 at 7:58pm
I too enjoy German cars. I had a Benz and now an Acura and will go back to German after this one is paid off.
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post #3 of 49
7/26/09 at 9:59pm
When I was a kid, my family had a Volvo that was in several accidents (rear-ended five times, hit from the side twice, always the other driver's fault). Six of the offending cars, including a Benz and a small truck, were totaled. Only one drove away from the accident: another Volvo.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #4 of 49
7/27/09 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

When I was a kid, my family had a Volvo that was in several accidents (rear-ended five times, hit from the side twice, always the other driver's fault). Six of the offending cars, including a Benz and a small truck, were totaled. Only one drove away from the accident: another Volvo.

Good lord, did your Volvo come with a target on it? I think I've been (lightly) rear ended once in a fairly long driving career, and most of that in a dense urban area.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #5 of 49
7/27/09 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/ny...er=rss&emc=rss

Add two american minivans with their crappy handling and subpar safety design to 1 very stupid driver and the result is 8 dead.

That is why my next car will be a BMW. Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.

This thread is a non sequitur. Someone goes the wrong way on the highway in car, fails to realize the mistake and stop, cause an accident and this is the proof needed to swear off american cars and only buy german?

Do german cars keep people from going the wrong way on the highway and failing to notice it?
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #6 of 49
7/27/09 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Good lord, did your Volvo come with a target on it? I think I've been (lightly) rear ended once in a fairly long driving career, and most of that in a dense urban area.

I often wondered the same thing, or whether I was born in Bumper Car Town USA or the car was a character in Wacky Races, or whether the "official" (ie, from the parents) version of the car's history was completely accurate. Glad to say that since I personally have been driving, not a single accident of any kind in over 20 years. Then again, I no longer live where I grew up... If I ever go back to visit, I plan to rent a Hummer.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #7 of 49
7/27/09 at 8:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

This thread is a non sequitur. Someone goes the wrong way on the highway in car, fails to realize the mistake and stop, cause an accident and this is the proof needed to swear off american cars and only buy german?

Do german cars keep people from going the wrong way on the highway and failing to notice it?

Nope. But the opposite is true: smart people, the ones who don't go the wrong way, don't buy american cars.
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post #8 of 49
7/27/09 at 8:15am
Just realized, this thread should be in AppleOutsider.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #9 of 49
7/27/09 at 8:54am
You're an idiot, Tauron.
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post #10 of 49
7/27/09 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

You're an idiot, Tauron.

Nope I am not because I have a japanese car. You, on the other hand, probably owns an american car.
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post #11 of 49
7/27/09 at 10:28am
1) This belongs in Apple outsider, not general discussion.
2) Get a blog for you're anti-Microsoft/America vendettas.
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post #12 of 49
7/27/09 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Nope I am not because I have a japanese car. You, on the other hand, probably owns an american car.

Oh, I get it. You're just a troll.
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post #13 of 49
7/27/09 at 8:05pm
Thanks for sharing this useful information. It's great.



taux pret auto - taux pret auto differe selon la rise en compte ... calculent automatiquement le taux pour un prêt automobile donne.
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post #14 of 49
7/28/09 at 2:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradcapo2 View Post

Thanks for sharing this useful information. It's great.

You are welcome. So to summarize, in the future:

1. Buy japanese or german.
2. Drive in the correct lane.
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post #15 of 49
7/28/09 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

When I was a kid, my family had a Volvo that was in several accidents (rear-ended five times, hit from the side twice, always the other driver's fault). Six of the offending cars, including a Benz and a small truck, were totaled. Only one drove away from the accident: another Volvo.

Volvos are great cars. I got the C30 coupe 2 years ago and love it! With so many idiots on the road with hummers and massive SUVs, I wanted a small car with great mileage that was solid and safe, and the Volvo C30 fit the bill!
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post #16 of 49
7/28/09 at 4:35pm
You're so stupid, Tauron, you even reply to spammers.
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post #17 of 49
7/29/09 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Volvos are great cars. I got the C30 coupe 2 years ago and love it! With so many idiots on the road with hummers and massive SUVs, I wanted a small car with great mileage that was solid and safe, and the Volvo C30 fit the bill!

Part of the reason that Volvo has a reputation for safety is the time they beefed up their car's structures just for the ads they made a couple decades ago. By the time they were required to stop making those ads, people already got the safety "message", which was at least a partial fabrication. They're safe, but part of that reputation as being so much safer is a little undeserved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Nope. But the opposite is true: smart people, the ones who don't go the wrong way, don't buy american cars.

A smart person would be able to spot your string of logical fallacies. That's kind of like saying a Benz would survive a stomping by T-Rex a lot better. Most people don't go the wrong way, regardless of car brand. You would also have to show that a non-US brand car would fare better, and that Toyota drivers never make the same mistake. Germany and Japan don't have unobtanium.

Looking at the crash test ratings, Toyota even has a model with "only" 4 star ratings. Most minivans have 5 star ratings these days.

Also, you've posted this in the wrong forum. I'd think a supposed smart person would know where this thread is supposed to go in the first place.
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post #18 of 49
7/29/09 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Volvos are great cars. I got the C30 coupe 2 years ago and love it! With so many idiots on the road with hummers and massive SUVs, I wanted a small car with great mileage that was solid and safe, and the Volvo C30 fit the bill!

Of course Volvo is owned by Ford these days I've heard the quality has dropped in Volvos.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #19 of 49
7/29/09 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Part of the reason that Volvo has a reputation for safety is the time they beefed up their car's structures just for the ads they made a couple decades ago. By the time they were required to stop making those ads, people already got the safety "message", which was at least a partial fabrication. They're safe, but part of that reputation as being so much safer is a little undeserved.



A smart person would be able to spot your string of logical fallacies. That's kind of like saying a Benz would survive a stomping by T-Rex a lot better. Most people don't go the wrong way, regardless of car brand. You would also have to show that a non-US brand car would fare better, and that Toyota drivers never make the same mistake. Germany and Japan don't have unobtanium.

Looking at the crash test ratings, Toyota even has a model with "only" 4 star ratings. Most minivans have 5 star ratings these days.

Also, you've posted this in the wrong forum. I'd think a supposed smart person would know where this thread is supposed to go in the first place.

Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?

If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.

You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.

If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.
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post #20 of 49
7/29/09 at 7:09pm
German cars are a waste of money. They are over priced and BMWs are the Ultimate Asshole Machines. My father's BMW was a clunker.

Hondas and Toyotas are the way to go. Be like me, I vote Republican, own one Honda Civic for my family, ride my 50MPG motorcycle to work (0-60 in 4 seconds), and use a Mac.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #21 of 49
7/30/09 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Nope. But the opposite is true: smart people, the ones who don't go the wrong way, don't buy american cars.

You seem to be implying that people who buy American cars are stupid, no? Keep your opinion to yoursslef, dude. No one is going to stop buying American cars because you say so in a forum post. Get real.
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post #22 of 49
7/30/09 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?

If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.

You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.

If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.

There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits. You are insulting many people on this forum.
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post #23 of 49
7/30/09 at 6:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGSStateStudent View Post

There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits. You are insulting many people on this forum.

The whole world is biased against american cars. That is why two of the three have gone bankrupt. Anyone who buys into a company with bankrupt ideas is stupid.
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post #24 of 49
7/30/09 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?

If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.

You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.

If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.

Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.

In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.

On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.

That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
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post #25 of 49
7/30/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/ny...er=rss&emc=rss

Add two american minivans with their crappy handling and subpar safety design to 1 very stupid driver and the result is 8 dead.

That is why my next car will be a BMW. Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.

BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #26 of 49
7/31/09 at 7:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.

In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.

On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.

That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.

An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.
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post #27 of 49
7/31/09 at 7:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.

I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4. Pictures don't do it justice:

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post #28 of 49
7/31/09 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.

I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.

What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.

Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.
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post #29 of 49
7/31/09 at 11:38am
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #30 of 49
7/31/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.

What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.

Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.
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post #31 of 49
8/1/09 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.

Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, I suppose.
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post #32 of 49
8/1/09 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4.

Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.

Not a "long time ago."

The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.

This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.

More troubling is this:

Quote:
Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.

Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?
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post #33 of 49
8/1/09 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.

What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.

Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.

He is just trolling. Everything he's said in this thread is a troll.
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post #34 of 49
8/2/09 at 4:01pm
Germans cars make you a better driver.

That is why there is no such thing as a 200-car pile-up on the Autobahn.
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post #35 of 49
8/3/09 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post


HAHAHA! I saw this in MacRumors that day.. really laughed.
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post #36 of 49
8/3/09 at 1:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

He is just trolling. Everything he's said in this thread is a troll.

Oh come on he's not trolling. He's just being a LITTLE biased and has DIFFERING SELF-BASED OPINIONS.
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post #37 of 49
8/3/09 at 6:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post

Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.

Not a "long time ago."

The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.

This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.

More troubling is this:



Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?

I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.

As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.

By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
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post #38 of 49
8/4/09 at 2:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.

As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.

By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.

No. Next you'll say Chery QQ is the safest shit ever made. Sigh. This thread is really getting off topic.
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post #39 of 49
8/4/09 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.

In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.

On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.

That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.

I think political stuff should go to Political Outsider.
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post #40 of 49
8/4/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.

As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.

By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.

BMWs are not the be all, end all. They have frequent electrical problems and others problems even in newer models. I know this from two sources that worked in fields closely related to repair. They are still great cars overall, and handle beautifully. That are quite safe, as well.

As for the Camry: You can opine that the car is boring, but calling it "crap" is factually inaccurate.
The looks factor is subjective, but since 2007 I think they have become much more aggressive looking.

Here is the model and color I have:

As for performance/being boring: It's powered by a 268hp V6. It gets 30MPG on the highway. I have broken the front wheels loose at 30MPH before. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. Keep in mind...this is a family car. It's not even marketed as sport sedan. For about 30K when new (and that's loaded), one could do worse. I'm not married to it and it does have it flaws. But it's not crap.
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