or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Can Apple sell a $1999 iMac?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Can Apple sell a $1999 iMac?

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Cuz that's as low as the price can go for some of the models predicted Come on, do you honestly expect to get a 15" LCD, 1 GHz, SuperDrive iMac for less than $2000? All of these things cost, and to incorporate them into a consumer machine at this time would put the models firmly into the pro price category.

I agree that it's time for Gigahertz Macs, but the two other droolworthy traits aforementioned are just too expensive to put into a consumer machine.
post #2 of 35
On the PC side you can get a decent home machine with an LCD for $999US. Superdrive costs too much but a 999 DVD or CDrw LCD iMac should already exist, as should an 1199 combo model.

I expect a Ghz (or thereabouts PPC) and a DVD or CDrw drive with a 15"LCD for $999. I expect a CD model for 899 and a combo model for 1199. Anything more than that is a rip-off, as are all the current iMacs.
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #3 of 35
Agreed, Matsu. Anything above $1299 would be a complete ripoff, assuming no Superdrive.

Would I pay $1999 for an iMac? No freakin' way! As a Canadian student, the most I could pay for an iMac would be $1499, which works out to about $2299 here.
I'm not going anywhere.
Reply
I'm not going anywhere.
Reply
post #4 of 35
We Canadian also need to pray that by the time Apple introduces new products the exchange from Canadian dollar to US dollar to rise a bit....if it keeps dropping the Canadian retail price will be insanely expensive

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
Mac Pro 2.66, 5GB RAM, 250+120 HD, 23" Cinema Display
MacBook 1.83GHz, 2GB RAM
Reply
Mac Pro 2.66, 5GB RAM, 250+120 HD, 23" Cinema Display
MacBook 1.83GHz, 2GB RAM
Reply
post #5 of 35
I agree. I just can't see an iMac going for more than $1500 US.

I don't think the pricing range is going to change a whole lot after going LCD really. Might be a CD on the low end for $899, up to $1499 max. I think they'd have a damn hard time moving anything more expensive with a G3 processor, SuperDrive or not.

Hey, 4 Canuck posts in a row here boys. Cool.

[edit - it was 3 posts, but Leonis snuck in there...]

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
post #6 of 35
There's no way Apple could sell a $1999 iMac. I don't how anyone would spend that much on an iMac unless it could be upgraded and everything, but then that would go into the pro category and that isn't what the iMac is.
post #7 of 35
They tried; it was called the cube.
post #8 of 35
The point may be mute anyways because the Superdrive will not be in a G3, 1 GHz or not. It needs the G4 unique altivec engine. However, perhaps if this supposed 1 GHz G3 is the IBM Sahara which is supposed to have an altivec like functionality to it? That clouds the issue a bit.

I believe a $1999 iMac might sell, if it has enough punch.

1 GHz G3 or 6xx MHz G4
256 MB RAM standard
80 GB HD
15" LCD (boy, a 1280x1024 res. would be nice, especially if you are paying $2k)
all the standard stuff
USB, Firewire, gigabit ethernet
Airport card included would be nice
32 MB graphics AGP 4x

Perhaps worth $2k?

-'pert
post #9 of 35
Not only is the issue whether Apple could sell a 1999 iMac or not, which it couldn't, but whether people have a right to expect the features we're after at the prices we want. And we do.

An LCD is NOT too expensive, a bare 15" XGA panel costs under $180, that leaves Apple with $620US to spend, at cost prices, on the rest of the computer (which can buy a hell of a lot even at retail prices).

Total manufacturing cost; $800US. To be sold at; $999 retail for a profit margin of 20-25%. Still better than just about anyone in the computer industry.

When one looks at the cost of components, one can only conclude two things: (1) the profit that Apple makes, even on edu discounted iMacs, is ridiculous, or (2)the cost of producing the all-in-one proprietary form factor continues to negate component savings for what should otherwise be *very* cheap components.

The more I think about it the more I think that an ADC connected micro-tower (with only one AGP and one PCI slot, on a micro-ATX MB) is a more cost effective solution than an expensively miniaturized all-in-one form factor.
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #10 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>Not only is the issue whether Apple could sell a 1999 iMac or not, which it couldn't, but whether people have a right to expect the features we're after at the prices we want. And we do.

An LCD is NOT too expensive, a bare 15" XGA panel costs under $180, that leaves Apple with $620US to spend, at cost prices, on the rest of the computer (which can buy a hell of a lot even at retail prices).

Total manufacturing cost; $800US. To be sold at; $999 retail for a profit margin of 20-25%. Still better than just about anyone in the computer industry.

When one looks at the cost of components, one can only conclude two things: (1) the profit that Apple makes, even on edu discounted iMacs, is ridiculous, or (2)the cost of producing the all-in-one proprietary form factor continues to negate component savings for what should otherwise be *very* cheap components.

The more I think about it the more I think that an ADC connected micro-tower (with only one AGP and one PCI slot, on a micro-ATX MB) is a more cost effective solution than an expensively miniaturized all-in-one form factor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Matsu,
You're forgetting the cost of putting the things together, packaging, storing and delivering. Not to mention all the other sundry expenses associated with manufacturing costs. If each iMac costs Apple $800 in parts, you can be sure they're not making $200 in pure profit. I don't know what they would actually make, but it ain't that <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #11 of 35
[quote]do you honestly expect to get a 15" LCD, 1 GHz, SuperDrive iMac for less than $2000? <hr></blockquote>

For about $1200, they could offer an LCD iMac with AT LEAST a 15" display. I think 16 or 17 inches is called for, considering that many laptops have 15" displays.

I don't expect a superdrive iMac, but the rest of thsi stuff isn't too outrageous.
post #12 of 35
Take it out of the difference in buying volume cost price parts, you can still build a hell of a lot of computer for 800. I didn't make myself clear, I meant parts and manufacture. Apple has all those costs anyway, and they are supposedly better managed than any other maker out there. Shipping, promotion, and storage, are all costs that wouldn't be any higher than they are with the current machine. An LCD iMac is possible at 999; moreover, it's possible at a healthy profit too.
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #13 of 35
Please define 'rip off'
post #14 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>Take it out of the difference in buying volume cost price parts, you can still build a hell of a lot of computer for 800. I didn't make myself clear, I meant parts and manufacture. Apple has all those costs anyway, and they are supposedly better managed than any other maker out there. Shipping, promotion, and storage, are all costs that wouldn't be any higher than they are with the current machine. An LCD iMac is possible at 999; moreover, it's possible at a healthy profit too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I whole heartedly agree. And I think that there will be a 1499 iMac with the LCD and SuperDrive. Why?? Because if you add the current costs of everything (and you do realize that Apple probably buys those drives at about 500 a piece. Maybe 600) it is about 1100 -1200. So selling them at 1499 is still about the 20 - 25% profit margin. So I think it is reasonably possible to see a SuperDrive Equipped iMac here soon.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
Reply
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
Reply
post #15 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Rupert:
<strong>The point may be mute anyways because the Superdrive will not be in a G3, 1 GHz or not. It needs the G4 unique altivec engine. However, perhaps if this supposed 1 GHz G3 is the IBM Sahara which is supposed to have an altivec like functionality to it? That clouds the issue a bit.

I believe a $1999 iMac might sell, if it has enough punch.

1 GHz G3 or 6xx MHz G4
256 MB RAM standard
80 GB HD
15" LCD (boy, a 1280x1024 res. would be nice, especially if you are paying $2k)
all the standard stuff
USB, Firewire, gigabit ethernet
Airport card included would be nice
32 MB graphics AGP 4x

Perhaps worth $2k?

-'pert</strong><hr></blockquote>

nothing about the superdrive requires a G4. and a 1Ghz G3 should encode MPEG 2 just fine, hell a 700 Mhz G3 could probably do it decently. Apple misleads people in their marketing. iDVD encodes quickly due to the bitrate and less to do with altivec.

[quote]Matsu,
You're forgetting the cost of putting the things together, packaging, storing and delivering. Not to mention all the other sundry expenses associated with manufacturing costs. If each iMac costs Apple $800 in parts, you can be sure they're not making $200 in pure profit. I don't know what they would actually make, but it ain't that <hr></blockquote>

sure their profit margins are that big. each iMac makes from 200-300 in profit I believe. that has to be divided with the reseller somehow as well.

[quote]I whole heartedly agree. And I think that there will be a 1499 iMac with the LCD and SuperDrive. Why?? Because if you add the current costs of everything (and you do realize that Apple probably buys those drives at about 500 a piece. Maybe 600) it is about 1100 -1200. So selling them at 1499 is still about the 20 - 25% profit margin. So I think it is reasonably possible to see a SuperDrive Equipped iMac here soon. <hr></blockquote>

you're prices are way to high. retail Superdrives go for 600 now. Apple likely gets them for around 300-350

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
post #16 of 35
Uh, applenut you need to define 'decently' and 'just fine' for me. My understanding is a Superdrive on a G3 is only going to give you about 10X encoding speed.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
post #17 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Michael Grey:
<strong>Uh, applenut you need to define 'decently' and 'just fine' for me. My understanding is a Superdrive on a G3 is only going to give you about 10X encoding speed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

how's that your understanding? what basis do you have for that statement?
post #18 of 35
Ok, buying all the components seperately:

I've seen DVD-R drives (the Pioneer ones, like the superdrive) for $450. (US, all of it)

How much is a 15inch LCD? $200 someone said. so let's assume $300.

Then you add the HD...another $100 for a 80GB drive on sale.

That's $850, not including the graphics/sound.

So then add maybe $150 for those.

Then add $50 for othe components (such as keyboard, internal speakers and mouse)

Add...I don't know...shot in the dark here...$100 for the ports (2Firewire, 2USB, 1 Ethernet, 1 Modem, 1 Ex. Speaker, 1 external monitor support).

Add another $100 for the cost of the case (design included - those are hell fo expensive to design). That's a total of $1250.

Then add manufacturing, maybe $50.

Add $50 perhaps for advertising (which they'll do a lot of). that's $1350, buying it all seperately (if I got my prices right).

So they could sell that for $1500 and make $150/computer (assuming no middle-man and no discout - employee/gov/student/education)

Oh - I forgot to add the motherboard and CPU

Andrew
post #19 of 35
I think iMacs should be under $1500.

High end should be $1200, the goal is to get them all under $1000.

Just my take, it would make them a bargin deal and you could keep iBooks at $900-$1500 then.
AI Member since 1998.

Founder GACmug, former Chairman.

Macintosh Specialist and Administrator, Lees-McRae College
Reply
AI Member since 1998.

Founder GACmug, former Chairman.

Macintosh Specialist and Administrator, Lees-McRae College
Reply
post #20 of 35
The feasible range is $1000-$1500.

Any higher and you lose customers. Any lower and you start selling crappy machines.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #21 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Bogie:
<strong>I think iMacs should be under $1500.

High end should be $1200, the goal is to get them all under $1000.

Just my take, it would make them a bargin deal and you could keep iBooks at $900-$1500 then.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the goal is to get them all under 1000 at all. I think the goal is to offer a comeptitive computer at a competitive price. Apple doesn't want to become an emachines selling crap for under a 1000.
post #22 of 35
$999
$1299
$1499

my guess for the new three models (if there are three, that is )
post #23 of 35
[quote]So they could sell that for $1500 and make $150/computer (assuming no middle-man and no discout - employee/gov/student/education)<hr></blockquote>

You neglect the fact that Apple buys parts at a significant volume discount.
post #24 of 35
A supermarket chain here in Germany has a (VERY) special offer on computers every now and then and sells limited quantities. I almost bought the last one, but in the end I thought, **** it, I'm not having to deal with Windows.
Just check out these specs for DM2000 ($999)
1.8GHz Athlon CPU
512MB RAM
80GB HD
GeForce3 (!!!)
Windows XP

dunno the rest of the specs but it sold it 5 minutes after the shops opened.
A friend of mine got one, I'll ask him about the specs.

Now why can't Apple make a deal like this? (rhetorical question)
phok cignachurs
Reply
phok cignachurs
Reply
post #25 of 35
oh and DVD player AND CD-RW drives.
phok cignachurs
Reply
phok cignachurs
Reply
post #26 of 35
So amidala, we can pretty much agree that reasonably priced iMacs with 15" LCD's are possible if there is no superdrive.

BTW, the cost of bare LCD panels was reported a few months back on c|net. They said 180 for the prepped glass, manufacturers who buy them still have to add an enclosure, and input circuitry. There are LCD's of that size selling in Canada for 549 CANADIAN, so that puts the US retail at about 350-375.

If Dell can do a 999 LCD machine, so can Apple. Dell's machine isn't a screamer, but it's at least as good as the current iMacs. Apple can do it, no one is expecting a supercomputer, but a reasonably fast new model.

PS. did you go back to the AI iMac thread. I'm interested o know what you think about gigawire?
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #27 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
I think the goal is to get them all under 1000 at all. I think the goal is to offer a comeptitive computer at a competitive price. Apple doesn't want to become an emachines selling crap for under a 1000.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly, if the computer has the specs to back up the price then there's no problem with it over $1000 as long as it's not too much over.
post #28 of 35
$999
$1299
$1499

Apple has been selling iMacs around those prices since they came out and they won't stop now. If they wanted to lower prices at the high end they would have before now.
post #29 of 35
Okay applenut, you've forced me to get off my butt and do some actual 'research.' And it looks like you may be right. Kinda.

According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm" target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)

Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."

Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
post #30 of 35
Does anybody know what Apple's profit margin is?? Earlier this year I listened to one of Apple's quarterly conference calls and heard their CFO say that their margin was something like 3%..
post #31 of 35
If Apple can sell iBooks for $1,299, then they should have no problem putting together an LCD iMac for less than $1,999.
post #32 of 35
never mind

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #33 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Michael Grey:
<strong>Okay applenut, you've forced me to get off my butt and do some actual 'research.' And it looks like you may be right. Kinda.

According to <a href="http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2001/01_jan/features/MoreOnAppleDVD.htm" target="_blank">Digital Post Production.com</a>, iDVD's 2x encoding may be due more to its fixed 8Mb/s encoding rate than to AltiVec. (Apparently this was also the reason for the one-hour limit on iDVD movies. Now, with iDVD2, this has improved to 90 minutes, so Apple may have adjusted this to accomodate for faster G4s.)

Still, an older article on the Powerbook Zone discussing the release of external Superdrives said "We'd guesstimate iDVD's performance on a G3 PowerBook ...hooked up to an external version of Pioneer's DVR-103 DVD-R Superdrive would yield encoding rates between 8x and 16x."

Of course, that was when PBG3's topped out at about 600MHz, so I guess we could expect a 1GHz G3 to render at between 4x and 8x. I guess that could be considered 'decently.'</strong><hr></blockquote>

they took a guess. they are likely wrong. Powerboos topped out at 500Mhz at that time as well. your quotes speeds are much slower than what you would get. I'll try to test some things out maybe and see what I get. Is MediaCleaner pro's MPEG 2 encoder altivec optimized? I don't think so.

[quote]Does anybody know what Apple's profit margin is?? Earlier this year I listened to one of Apple's quarterly conference calls and heard their CFO say that their margin was something like 3%.. <hr></blockquote>

add a zero. it's near 30%

[quote] posted 12-02-2001 11:30 AM Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Â*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Apple can sell iBooks for $1,299, then they should have no problem putting together an LCD iMac for less than $1,999.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<hr></blockquote>

with you're reasoning Apple should be able to make an LCD imac for 1000 as portables are more expensive to make. of course desktops have more features and everything which raises the price.
post #34 of 35
If Apple releases an LCD iMac anywhere near the price/feature ratio of the iBook, people are going to start wondering why they should get an iMac at all (which probably will be slightly faster, bigger screen, maybe more ports -- though the iMac doesn't do too badly as far as connectivity, but will not be portable). Heck, I'm already wondering this.

Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.

Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.

-Ender
If you find yourself sided with the majority, it is time to change your thinking.

-Mark Twain
Reply
If you find yourself sided with the majority, it is time to change your thinking.

-Mark Twain
Reply
post #35 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Ender:
<strong>If Apple releases an LCD iMac anywhere near the price/feature ratio of the iBook, people are going to start wondering why they should get an iMac at all (which probably will be slightly faster, bigger screen, maybe more ports -- though the iMac doesn't do too badly as far as connectivity, but will not be portable). Heck, I'm already wondering this.

Apple needs to make sure to provide some incentive to keep buying iMacs. Things like a SuperDrive, a G4 or screamin' G3, a great GPU, etc. Imagine a $1200 iMac with a gForce 3, G4, and combo drive (doubt that Apple could manage a superdrive at that price...). Gamers and game developers would finally have a reason to switch to Macs.

Anyway, my point is that Apple needs to make sure that it covers different markets with it's iMac and iBook lines. Both with price as well as features.

-Ender</strong><hr></blockquote>

You bring up a good point. Right now why would anyone buy an iMac over an iBook. For just a little more (or equal depending on model) you get most of the same features of an iMac in a portable. The new iMac really needs to have some kick-ass stuff otherwise people will just keep buying iBooks and not iMacs.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Can Apple sell a $1999 iMac?