Steve Ballmer calls Apple's Mac growth a "rounding error" - Page 5

Do you honestly think the average Mac user also has Windows installed???

And the customer satisfaction surveys, studies, reports, year after year after year, speak for themselves.

And that SMS bug is most certainly not exclusive to the iPhone. But the iPhone gets all the attention. For obvious reasons.

You're barking up the wrong tree around here. Winsupersite is this way:

http://www.winsupersite.com/

Of course, you could always end the suffering and smarten up here:

www.apple.com

If Mac's growth amounts to a rounding error, how about Bing's even smaller and slower growth?

Steve Ballmer became Microsoft's CEO in January of the year 2000.

Here is a chart comparing Microsoft's stock price vs Apple from the beginning. Notice how well Microsoft did vs. Apple before Ballmer and then after Ballmer.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT...z=l&q=l&c=aapl

Coincidence? I rather doubt it.

Effective in what way?

Effective because Apple fanboys get irate?
Effective because Microsoft executives turn cartwheels .... after making a mistake.
Effective in getting PC buyers to buy even cheaper PC laptops than they might have? And in the process bring down the ASP of HP and Dell machines.

I thought the desired effect was to dissuade people from buying Mac notebooks.
Apple just posted a 25% increase in notebook sales for the quarter that Microsoft has been running that campaign.

Shark and jumped comes to mind!

That glaring Security Issue is present on Linux and Windows. Apple has addressed it on their iPhone.

Let me know when Android and Windows Mobile gets off their ass, not to mention any SMS based Messaging Framework outside of the mobile world.

The biggest problem I have with Macs lagging in the corporate sector is because the large majority of people who work in the corporate sector will turn around and purchase a Windows-based computer to use at home. It's all they know at work, thus they take that knowledge home with them. They look at the Mac like it's some sort of alien. Of course that doesn't stop them from talking shit on it; likewise, they are grossly uneducated about them. It's quite sad, actually. They have no desire to open their eyes outside the world of a 9-year-old operating system.

As shitty as Vista is and as great as 7 is "supposed" to be, people just flat-out refuse to move on from XP. They're comfortable. Funnily enough, it seems as though Microsoft has screwed itself in that sense. Apple can't interest a lot of people to move to the Mac, nor can Microsoft influence those same people to move on to their new OS.

Even my coworkers (two of whom both use XP at work and Vista at home) hate Vista and want to stay with XP because it "just works" then they turn around and complain about its problems. Helllllooooo......

I come from a background of Mac by choice, Linux for fun, and Windows because I'm forced into it. My life was so much happier before I was made to use Windows every damn day.

The virus made him a pony. You know, just a little horse.

Look, if you are cohered into using a piece of shit OS day in and day out and you don't know any better, what do you do? You settle on the least bad option and you work with that, changing as little as possible, since making XP work is like hoping for the alignment of planets.

If that is what the computer experience is, you think, then jumping to a whole new system with a whole new OS and new software is like telling them to move from Earth to Mars. Is there oxygen there? Hell, they think, if XP is already a clusterfuck how come a small company like apple is going to surpass a giant like MS where the friendly IT guy is right next door ready to solve my problems the next time my screen goes blue (probably tomorrow it will happen again)?

Nobody things that:
1. smallish apple is 100x better than biggish MS
2. you don't need no frigging IT guy, like ever
3. you don't need to learn a whole new system because a) Windows is a bad imitation of Mac but b) it is less intuitive so you will have no trouble learning Mac OS.

Oh and the cost of a Mac is more than worth it if you consider that:
1. PC are attack prone
2. run at half advertised speeds compared to mac due to antivirus and crappy software
3. last half as long
4. even when it "works" it annoys the hell out of you with thinks like 100 driver updates each week
5. its shitty software makes you take longer and work harder than in a mac
and so on.

Do you think the Gates-Seinfeld Churro ad, accomplished something? It was "supposed to" right?

...was worth $2B in Net Income to Apple last quarter. MS only made $3B last quarter, which makes MS only 50% larger than insignificant.

Ken are you playing dumb ?? really now ? SAying that apple is to be compared and quoted along side acer $300 machines makes you and the people who make these polls very stupid .

COMPANIES choose in which markets in which to compete . true or alse ?
so why do you quote numbers form space.

Apple owns 91 percent of the $1000 dollar plus market .

Apple in the playing field's where it competes wipes out every other company that also dares .
to compete .

Look at the ipod alone . 78 percent share of the market

MS is a MONSTER company .they do almost 20bn a yr in sales .And they make a very large profit. When you have a monopoly its easy to hit these highs .

KEN i am sleepy but if you want i can teach you exactly why MS DOES what it does and why .

peace
remember apple owns 91% of its market

Much more than that:

https://investor.shareholder.com/msf...9386&SID=09-00

From Apple's 2003 SEC filing:

"In August 1997, the Company and Microsoft Corporation (Microsoft) entered into patent cross license and technology agreements. In addition, Microsoft purchased 150,000 shares of Apple Series A nonvoting convertible preferred stock ("preferred stock") for $150 million. These shares were convertible by Microsoft after August 5, 2000, into shares of the Company's common stock at a conversion price of $8.25 per share. During 2000, 74,250 shares of preferred stock were converted to 9 million shares of the Company's common stock. During 2001, the remaining 75,750 preferred shares were converted into 9.2 million shares of the Company's common stock."


http://ask.metafilter.com/30833/How-...-Microsoft-own

I've seen several sources referencing this 2003 SEC filing by Apple. I'm not sure whether it's the 10K, 8k or a special filing. This is the first time I've actually seen this. I always assumed they bought common AAPL from the start. (except for the non-voting clause). I am sure they sold in 2002 after the 5 year deal was up when AAPL was around $14 (from Aug. to Oct.) But that would be about $28 split adjusted. That's if they bought the common stock and got the split in the first place. But now it seems their shares were converted to 18 million shares of common AAPL after the split. Either way it turned out to be a very good investment for Microsoft.

And how many of those 10 million did MS sell copies of Windows to? Likely not a lot but the cash it brings in is nothing to laugh at, either.

Thanks -- but that's just the conversion to common stock, which would allow them to sell (after the five years were up), but doesn't necessarily mean that they did sell.

Face what? I have an iPod touch rather than an iPhone but they are close to being identical. I've never had a gadget that came even close to being such a high quality piece of technology. I'm astonished they can sell something of this quality for $200. The earbuds that come with it are a piece of junk but I've corrected that.

Also the Macbook Pro is also easily the best quality computer I've owned or used. I've used plenty of Macs (and others) going back to the original 128K Mac. My G4 tower Mac had some high quality characteristics but even it is completely eclipsed by the MBP.

I'm not talking about perfection but in comparison to competitors the MBP an iPhone stand out by virtue of quality. I don't remember the PC publication but the MBP with Windows installed was recommended as the best quality PC laptop available.

Apple doesn't have 90% market share because they aren't trying to get it. if they wanted it they could open up the number of configs, add blue-ray, bring back the matte finish screen, drop the prices a good 20% etc.

It is in Apple's best interest to stay low on the market share. Why? Because being low is part of what makes the tying of the OS and hardware non abusive. if they gain too much market share they lose that pass. and they would be forced to open up the clone game again. which they don't want

Um... no. It's been so easy to construct malicious code on Windows that people do it and do it often. It's been so hard to do it for OS X (not saying it's categorically impossible) that many have given up trying or simply just know better not to even try. This has nothing to do with market share.

Question for you: How many OS X machine must exist for you to think the carrot is big enough? Or if you prefer, what market share is big enough? Lastly, can you support your answer with anything resembling a real study?

Another proof of this is to look at OS X's cousins, Linux. While their market share is very low, their share of the web server market is enormous. Linux-based hosted sites are a dime a dozen (almost literally). And yet, they are extremely difficult to hack.

This is because *nix OSes are default-secure, while Windows is default-insecure. The Windows mentality is to simply patch over holes, which is an ever-losing game. If you wait until you're hacked and then respond, it means the hackers always have the advantage. By comparison, the *nix mentality is to make the OS secure from the get-go and to just keep improving that security as times change. (The open source nature of *nix, including the OS X core and many of its other technologies, also helps tremendously, because it means there is a huge community of people there to fix problems, as opposed to the relatively few people on MS's payroll.)

Regardless of what this bumbling fool says, It only took Apple one Cell phone OS to create something that literally sh*ts on anything MS has put out since Windows Mobile was created. I gave up my Tilt for an iPhone and 100% happy with my purchase. I can't tell you how non-responsive, slow, and unreliable that garbage was. HTC makes great phones, and have very appealing designs, but the software running on them is pitiful. I tried for the last month I had the phone to find a way to run Android on the thing. That lead me to Android for HTC.

Now for the computer OS's. Apple again, dominates in ease of use and reliability. I have yet to find a problem I couldn't fix on my Mac with the toggle of a switch. And when I do, I know Apple Support, whether it be on the phone, or in the local Apple store talking with their Geniuses, will give me fast and courteous service. With a PC, I'd have to send the thing away to God knows where... or talk to one of the 800 million Patels in India for phone support.


As far as those misleading PC hunter ads, they're full of lies and people with such little funds, they should be spending their money elsewhere, or saving for something that will actually benefit them.

One that really shocked me was the one girl looking to spend under 2000 for a computer she could do movie editing on. That one was a no-brainer that she should have gone for the Mac. iMovie! Far superior than Movie Maker. She ended up leaving with a bulky, bloatware loaded, HP. She looked down upon the Macbook Pro's 2Gb Ram. Little did she know Apples (aside from the white macbook), have DDR3 Ram, which is about double the speed and power as it predecessor, DDR2, which at the time is what HP uses. I'm not sure what they're currently using, but I doubt it's DDR3 yet...

Plus, you could run Leopard off 512mb of ram. For Vista to crawl, you need at least 2. That alone makes the ram difference negligible.

Give that woman 2 months before she gets a virus and her project in Movie Maker gets fried. She'll come crawling to Apple.

I will give Microsoft props on one skill, copying. Redmond, Start your photocopiers, Snow Leopard is upon us.

http://www.manastungare.com/blog/wp-...otocopiers.jpg < Picture from Tiger's release.

...express my wholehearted agreement with the original poster.

Regardless of whether I'm a Mac fan, or the individuals and other small businesses that I have helped to move to Mac OS X are enlightened now, I definitely do not see in the near future, or even the next 10-15 years, every Police/Fire Dept., Community and Govt. Service, major biz with million $ specialized apps, etc. etc... moving to the Mac. That is where MS should, and will continue to dominate for a long time.

That is until someone like Google decides to put a backbone, support and services behind Linux and/or a UNIX based system. It appears they may be testing the waters with Chrome and their cloud apps.

I think that Google for MS... and for Apple, will be the big competitor in the future, if not already (Android/Chrome OS). It's also why I think Mr. Schmidt should be relieved of his place on Apple's board. No reason to make it easy for them.

PS: I'm a HUGE Ball-mur fan! The absolute BEST marketer of Apple products before, and since Steve has decided (forced) to take his "life" more seriously then tech.

Most seems to think that Microsoft sold all their shares back in 2003. Some are saying that Microsoft could have sold them as soon as they were converted to common shares. Which may be the reason why they were converted in two 9 million share batch. By converting and selling them in two 9 million shares transaction, Apple wouldn't have to be report it to the SEC if the transaction involve less than the 5% of the outstanding shares. But even 18 million shares at the time would have been less than 5% (not by much though) but a 18 million share transaction would be harder to hide.

I've been an investor in AAPL since 1997 and remember reading in financial news that Microsoft sold all their shares in 2003. Though no confirmation from Apple, Microsoft or SEC. Just rumors from stock analyst that follows AAPL.

It's almost certain that Microsoft no longer own those shares now. A list of the largest shareholders has Fidelity as number 1 with 40 million shares. Barclay second with 24 million shares. And Growth fund of American comes in with 24 million shares. If Microsoft didn't sell any of their 18 million shares of common AAPL stocks, they would have over 36 million shares today. (After the split in Feb. 2005.) Which would just barely be under the 5% requirement before Apple has to reveal to the SEC that Microsoft owns 5% or more of AAPL. However, Microsoft could be still consider a private investor and Apple don't have to reveal them as a shareholder if they don't own more than 5% of outstanding shares. So it's possible, but doubtful, that Microsoft still owns 36 million shares of AAPL. For all we know, AAPL stocks have been financing their Xbox and Zune division all these year.

Check your facts. Consumer Reports Rated Apple's Laptop Reliability No better than any off the Windows Laptops. In fact, Apple was rated worse than Sony, Lenovo (IBM), Compaq, and Toshiba. You are a victim of perception.


But iPhone is a "Premium" Product, it should NOT have the same problems other average phones have you moron. You guys are amazing. What you really are is someone who buys stuff to impress your friends. So you have to justify spending the extra money by making sure everyone know that you bought an iPhone, Mac, etc. I think it interesting that when someone buys an iPhone everyone has to hear about it. Wonder why that is. Because they just dropped a load of money and they want to justify it.

Really I am glad you do buy it. Helps the economy, and of course you are better off not having the money.

Actually, I did check Consumer Reports. Here's a NYT write up on it. MacBooks swept the laptop categories.

oops. Forgot the link. Here it is: http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...hine-to-apple/

Ballmer is always lying on Apple as usual. He is so delusional about Macs explosive growth that he dismisses it. I remember he laughed at the iPhone and said "Who's going to buy a 500 dollar phone?" Well you idiot Ballmer, millions of them have been sold and they gain market share faster than any other phone, just like Macs gain more market share than Windows equipped machine during the same period. Eventually Macs will again be the dominant platform. People are getting smarter and are starting to understand that Macs are just more intuitive and the fact that you have never seen virus on one is becoming one of the best selling points when you think of WIndows machines that can be rendered unusable by a rouge virus on a daily basis. Peecee's are garbage. and so is Ballmer. He is clueless!

You got to it before I could. Thank you.

Too bad Phalanx isn't man enough to acknowledge his mistake.

OMG there a cash machine
oddly xbox seems to be doing very well
my gaming freinds swear by the xbox

Well we all know why he's here, right?

PART ONE


first clue
no one is as stupid as balmer makes out to be

IS it possible that everyone on this thread is mistaken about balmer and MS .?

IS it possible that the idiotic back and forth chit chat going here and on the rest of the markets IS EXACTLY WhaT BALMER WANTS .

IS it possible that the stupid money wasting LAPTOP TV ADS And all that balmer spews forth is intended solely to stir the pot and too mis-direct us from the real TRUTH .

Is it possible balmer is a genius ?

IS it possible that every word balmer and MS has ever spoken is false and misleading self serving lies truths and 1/2 truths . ?

IS it possible the apple div at MS is its highest profit maker ever.

Why is this so clear to me .
a CLUE FOR YOU ALL DUNDER HEADS

Why does MS make ads that attack on of its best clients ??
And those same ads actually infer just the opposite to have an effect of attacking dell and friends ??

In part two i will supply the answers and a one word conclusion

peace
9

FWIW, that's what I've heard and assumed too, but I've never seen any confirmation, probably because it wasn't necessary under SEC rules for the sale to be disclosed.


Same year I first bought. We must have been reading the same smoke signals.

We are talking about Reliability. Click the Brand Reliability Tab. Man you guys are slow.

lol. OK. You're the smart one. I also heard in a poll of laptops that are colored in a green and red plaid pattern, Macs rate dead last. Bottom line, best laptop? MacBooks. In all categories. Maybe next year will be different. I'm only concerned with now.

Once you start personal attacks you lose immediately you know. For the record, I have a PhD in pure math, but perhaps I'm a moron for trying to argue with someone of your intellectual caliber.

I can't hang with your PhD in "pure math". I only worked on the several Flight Simulations for NASA (Shuttle, Space Station), Swedish Air Force (JAS 39), and US Air Force (F15/E, F16). We did a little math on those. I'm sure nothing a complicated as your "pure math".

That's easy ... in any consumer product what usually appeals to the masses? ... price , price and price. Let's face it, it may not be politically correct to say it but the majority of consumers are too lazy to research AND ANALYZE (thinking for themselves) before they buy ... they are greatly influenced by the advertisement industry, (not the most honest of industries), and they have no concept of VALUE vs PRICE. It's always been that way and unfortunately will likely always be that way. That's why Apple will always be a company that makes a superior product but has a smaller market share. Personally, I don't have a problem with that .... I don't care if my neighbor thinks I spent too much $$$ for my Mac ... I just smile to myself every time his computer slows to a crawl and he has to replace it while getting NOTHING for his old one, meanwhile my Mac keeps purring right along. Sign me ... Happy in Vancouver.

"Statistics, and real data prove this incorrect"

It's real easy to make a statement that you "forgot " to back up ... what statistics ... what data ?



"In fact, their laptops are noticably worse in reliability."

Again, without supporting data, that's not a "fact" just your opinion.



" In addition, they definitely have just as many, or more, security holes."

How often are you going to make ridiculous statements without ANY supporting data. I hate to be the one to break the news to you but just because YOU SAY IT ... doesn't make it true !



"I think I would rather buy a machine that needs only one O/S to get my work done."

Sure, if you're only ... DOING ONE THING.

facts, supporting data: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...eliability.htm

I thought you were capable of clicking on the "Brand Reliability" yourself. I over estimated your abilities. I should have known, you bought a Mac.

Since I don't wish to "subscribe" to a consumer report service and you apparently do , maybe you'd like to take some screenshots of "your data" and post here ... Vista can handle that , can't it ?

BOTTOM LINE
The new 15-inch MacBook Pro is faster, runs longer on a charge, doubles the memory capacity, and adds an SD card slot. It also has a gorgeous wide-gamut display and a lower price. In short, the quintessential commercial notebook is now even better.
Quote from Tom Yager, @infoworld .com