Microsoft plans to use Windows 7 to raise netbook prices - Page 3

Netbooks aren't really all that cheap when you consider what you get. I just bought my daughter a 15.6" Toshiba laptop with 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo, DVD burner, 2 GB, 240 GB and discrete graphics for $379. Why in the world would I want to pay $300 for a crappy 10% netbook with atom processor and no optical drive?


I agree that netbooks are not on Apple's radar screen. While it's possible that someone might choose a netbook over a MacBook and then change their mind when the netbooks go up by $50, it's not likely.

The real issue is that Microsoft has been out pushing the concept that price is everything - that someone would be foolish to buy a Mac because it's more expensive than a Windows computer. Buy spreading this "you only need to look at the price tag to choose your computer" concept, they are making themselves vulnerable on the low end. Currently, a Linux netbook isn't much less expensive than a Windows netbook. Add $50 to the Windows netbook, and the Linux system may look lots more attractive - since you're only selling price. When ChromeOS hits the market with Google's marketing clout behind it, that difference becomes even more important.

The 'price is everything' strategy could easily backfire when they raise Windows prices for netbooks.


Well, my company did it in the industrial products category, but it's not well known, so there's no point in naming it. It can be done, but it's very, very hard. More importantly, it requires that you have a powerful, unique selling feature that allows you to command a premium price in some niche. Microsoft has completely abandoned the concept that the OS is worth paying for because they no longer have any unique selling features, so it will be hard for them to go upscale.


No, you're just witnessing Microsoft's inability to understand marketing and branding. They are completely clueless about how you create a value proposition and are therefore left with lame copies of Apple's humorous ads or the silly "you should buy whatever is cheapest" Laptop Hunter ads.

I particularly love Ballmer's 'rounding error' comments. Sorry, but Apple's share gains are not a rounding error - they're quite real and have earned Apple many billions of dollars - while reduing Microsoft's revenues by at least hundreds of millions of dollars. Just another example of Ballmer sticking his foot into his mouth when he has nothing intelligent to say.

As someone that owns quite a few Apple stock, Ballmer is just about my best friend. He really seems clueless about how to move his company forward. He makes the same mistakes over and over! As much as I hate Bill Gates he is a very smart business man and Ballmer is nowhere near in his league.

If Apple is only in the rounding error, than why is M$ spending so much money to counter Apple? I think I can smell his fear! Whether or not is justified is another topic.

Personally, in the computer market I think Apple is about the right size, a little growth is good but not explosive growth. I think its Apple's increasingly moving into and creating new markets is where its future is... iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, iTablet/iBookReader. In the long run the personal computer is a dead end. Computing is moving to mobile devices for the home and at least in part for the office.

No keyboard, no sale. \

Funny, that's what that negative, foot dragging obstructionist Steve Ballmer said about the iPhone.

The whole tech industry is full of irony. The so-called tech nerds fail in seeing the irony in many tech events.

OS X runs really well on them, lot of people buy netbooks specifically to install OS X. Netbooks are a common Mac platform, even if Apple doesn't make one.



Sure, but the restrictions were to the claimed specs, not the actual specs. My HP Mini officially only supports 1GB RAM max, because that's the limit MS put on HP for their XP license. Yet, I have 4GB of DDR2 RAM in it running just fine.

Maybe it's splitting hairs on my part, I'd call that a win. Is it XP that is running on yours, or are you using OS X on it?

The iPhone is not a netbook. Neither will the iPad be, if it doesn't have a keyboard. That's all I was saying. For those of us who want a computer, neither will suffice.

That statement could mean many things. What do you mean? Clarify it.

After a post which said an Apple iTablet would be more capable than any netbook, I said "no keyboard, no sale." That was followed up by a comment implying because I wanted a keyboard, I was being negative.

I own an iPod touch and find it totally inadequate for web and email access or any other computing purpose except in a REAL PINCH when no computer is available. While an iPad/tablet with a larger screen might be slightly better; with no keyboad, I wouldn't consider it a real computer. I wouldn't want to type this post on a virtual on-screen keyboard.

Despite its Windows OS, my netbook is great. No iPhone, iTouch or iTablet will ever be more capable, in my opinion, unless I want to make a phone call; mainly because it won't likely have a keyboard.

Right. It's not all things to all people. But it will be suitable for light communication, e-mail, short letters. It will be even more limited in handling spreadsheets. It will cost less than a MacBook and do less. Sorry I jumped down your throat,

Oh I get you now. The good news is Apple sell laptops with physical keyboards, so if you want a physical keyboard and a Mac, you can get one of those. This tablet will be virtual on the keyboard stuff. Though, that doesn't not make it a computer. It just makes it a computer that doesn't suit your needs / meet your tastes.

Call me old-fashioned but I like the laptop form factor. I wish Apple made a small laptop, somewhat like the old 12" PowerBook, only smaller and lighter. I get a little annoyed when people say "the iPhone is good enough."

If Apple is preparing to introduce some kind of tablet, I hope they will also introduce a new small laptop style computer. I'd pay a reasonable price for it, but NOT what they ask for a MacBook Air. Otherwise, I'll be happy my Windows netbook, and will probably buy a new one early next year with Windows 7.

I think this article comes under the category of "we're just going to be negative about something MS have said because there MS". The closest thing to a Netbook Apple make is twice as expensive and all MS have said is there going to charge more for Windows on a Netbook to make more cash, what investor out there is arguing "no you should keep giving windows away"?

The netbooks I saw running Linux were the early one's of which the people I know that bought them either installed Windows on them, or we're really geeky people and were thus into Linux anyway. Since then all the ones I see in shops run XP. Given that pre-sales of Windows 7 are going really well there's not much to say at the moment that people wont want Windows 7 on a Netbook.

The only people that should really be worried about Netbooks is Apple. All there products are at the top end of the market which has been fine while they were only a few hundred more than a PC, and people would pay the extra for the nice design and more power. But if your a home user that mainly wants a machine for email, internet, photo's and music and you can get 3 netbooks for the price of an Apple Macbook and it will still do the things you want it to do, then an Apple Mac is starting to look very very expensive just to have it look a little nicer.

I think you've got your head in the clouds if you think a $50 increase in the cost of a netbook is going to make everyone switch over to Linux. In return for a $100 saving, you have to spend hours/days/weeks/eternity trying to figure out a new OS that isn't very user-friendly. Saying that your time is worth a lot of money seems to be a fashionable comment around here, so it amazes me that your time figuring out a new OS is only worth $100. People will stick with what they know, even if it is $50 more expensive - Linux simply has no chance of ever becoming a mainstream OS. Not a chance in hell.

You seem to have missed the point of the article.

If, as you say, Apple has a product that is twice the price.... but the price of netbooks rise.... then the price differential will drop. Simple.

Android and ChromeOS are Linux. For that matter, so is Intel's Moblin.


And so people have repeatedly chanted over and over again for almost two decades. Yet, the numbers continue to rise. BTW, you do know that Apple's success disproves the BS claim that people "stick with what they know", right? Anyone who claims OSX works like Windows is insane.

The numbers might fluctuate a bit, but it'll never become a mainstream OS. With Apple, a lot of people have actually tried out their stuff before buying a Mac, and OSX is actually reasonably easy to use, unlike Linux. It wouldn't say much about the usability of OSX if you thought it was just as easy/hard to get to grips with as Linux!

It is relevant be cause MS specifically talked about Apple.
I find these interesting and am more than happy for them to be on AppleInsider.

All this just seems more like Apple envy and lack of direction to me. Recent reports show that Apple is doing well in the high-end of the market; therefore, MS wants to be in the high-end of the market. People who think there is more to it than that are over thinking it. It is painfully clear that MS don't have a plan. Watch closely kids. These events will be forever taught in business schools under the segment, "what not to do!"

Since when were netbooks high end devices?

After selling Dell netbooks and playing around with a few, I bought my preferred version of a "netbook".

It's a 13" Aluminium MacBook, it is well worth the extra cost, I have iWork and Open Office, apparently I can get a 30 day trial of MS Office but I can't be bothered.

I am not restricted by my network so tethering my iPhone works fine (Yay, Australia five carriers all with iPhones and a law which says they must be able to be unlocked, which mine is).

I have also used Linux for the last few years, you click Firefox and you're on the web, Thunderbird you're reading your email, attachments from your Windows centric friends or work open in Open Office you can edit them and send them back in the MS format (Office 2007 is a bit broken).

You mouse over files and music plays, pictures pop up, documents are previewed it's like a supercharged version of Preview that's there all the time.

If anyone thinks Linux is hard to use I suggest you download a distribution on a live CD and have a play.

Ubuntu, Knoppix, PCLinuxOS take your pick, when you're done you eject the CD and it's gone.

The only thing missing is iTunes and MobileMe, which won't work without Windows or OSX and here I am back to the main reason I bought my MacBook "netbook", I just couldn't be bothered fixing Windows again on my old Linux/XP PC.

Ireland, you fail on that all-important attention to detail issue. Your remarks about Prince ['s writing style] may very well be justified in general but you chose to criticise the title, which this time was very neutral. If you fail to see this difference, then this reflects back on you.

What I got out of it is that MS will now start charging for Windows on low end PCs after practically giving away WinXP for a year or so. It makes perfect sense that they should charge OEMs for an operating system.

What confuses me is the way it's said: "the solution to the company's woes will be to increase the price of computers." Huh? MS doesn't sell computers.

I think that's the real problem with the article and its headline. Microsoft doesn't set the price of a computer that I've heard. The referenced BusinessWeek article isn't any better. It's either poor wording or poor reasoning on the part of the articles here and at BusinessWeek.

Been there done that. It took some nonsensicle code typed into a terminal window to get my soundcard working. None of my games work on it, no Media Centre, no iTunes, no apparent way to install programs. I'm a geek, and if I couldn't do it, there'd be little chance for anyone else but the ultra geek.

OK, netbook prices as a baseline arent gonna skyrocket, there is a version of 7 for net books called windows 7 starter that will be essentially the same price as XP. MS WANTS XP TO DIE. XP is old at this point, it saw its final service pack nearly 2 years ago. Furthermore, Windows 7 is such a better product technilogically that it is a great value on a netbook, even if a netbook is $40 more...for christssake, you are getting a laptop computer for about the price of a fucking GAME BOY!!!!

The fact that a fully featured wireless enabled computer that can fit in a small napsack and weighs in under 3LB can be had for about $250 is amazing when you look at what $250 and a 3 LB weight limit could have bought not too long ago: at launch the Gameboy cost $179 according to Wikipedia, and that was in 1991, that would be about $270 in today's money.

and oh yea, fuck linux on netbooks...every linux based netbook buyer that I know except for one engineer who specifily wanted linux, ended up buying or bootlegging a copy of Windows so they could use the device in the real world.

Which reminds me of the old joke of the guy selling his product below cost. He figured volume sales would make up for what he lost in profit.

There's probably a better way of telling the joke. I just can't remember it exactly.

How do you do install OS X on a non-Mac netbook? I'm confused. I thought you needed a Mac to install OS X on. I'm not dissing you. I want to try that myself. Which netbook(s) will that work on?

I've not personally seen a netbook running OS X, but it is being done. There are certain netbooks that are pretty popular for that, for example, there are step-by-step instructions on how to make it work on a Dell Mini 9. It's outside the scope of this forum, I suggest using Google to find any more information than that.

Thanx. I used Google as you suggested. New vistas (pardon the pun) opened.

Sure. I didn't think it appropriate to give much more info than that given the forum rules.

It's not great, & not only that but If you don't care for Numbers you can use OpenOffice, which is a more powerful application for working with numbers & data anyway.

I will say though, numbers makes building presentations from a spreadsheet very nice & easy, just has a horrible set of templates.

I don't know what MS charges computer manufacturers for a bundled OS. Certainly it's less than they charge at retail. To a computer manufacturer the cost of an OS is just like any other component. As the price of computers comes down, the manufacturers work hard to get all their component costs down. MS must feel the pressure. If MS charges $100 for an OS on a computer that sells for $1,500, that's 6.7% of the selling price. On a $500 computer it's 20% of the selling price. Can't happen. MS wants computer selling prices raised to take the pressure off their pricing.

Long term the profitability of OS's sold to OEM's has got to drop. The OS manufacturing cost is nil so they can't cut their manufacturing costs, only the marketing, research and sales costs.

is this what your kid got ??

its 553 $
did you get a refub or something ???Any way your price is wrong

Maybe you ..

Laptop Summary
Specifications\t customized
Intel® Core 2 Duo processor T6500 (2.1GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium 32-Bit
15.6" Diagonal Widescreen HD (1366x768) TruBrite® display
Black
Microsoft® Office Ready with Microsoft Office Professional 2007 60-day Trial Edition
2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz SDRAM (2048MBx1)
250GB HDD (5400rpm, Serial-ATA)
DVD SuperMulti (+/-R double layer) drive
Lithium Ion battery (6-Cell, 4000mAh)
1 Year Standard Limited Warranty

Only theives do this shitty move .

For many of us, price is not the main consideration when buying a netbook. Size, weight and cool operation were what sold me. My netbook will fit almost anywhere, weighs less than three pounds and never heats up my lap like MOST regular laptops will. I bought mine when it was a new model and gladly paid $500. (The price is now less than $400.)

So even when the cost goes up with Win7, netbooks will still seem worth it to me; especially when you compare them to Apple's closest offeringMB Air at $1499.

I think new generation of netbooks will take on Windows 7, something in line of new HP 5101 netbooks.

That thing comes with 2GB of RAM, 7200RPM or SSD HDD, aluminium and magnesium allow casing, good battery life... and is a bit more expensive than your usual netbooks, though still perfectly affordable.

Right now it comes with Vista Business but with free upgrade to W7 Pro offer.

Entry level netbooks will likely remain on Linux, XP Home or W7 Basic.

lol true however keynote is very common at conferences in my field

I don't see why Apple needs an excuse to keep it's products priced high. They certainly didn't need an excuse so far with the pricing of any of their products. It doesn't matter to Apple if Netbook prices go up due to licensing of Windows 7. You will be redefining the term Netbook if the machine can run Windows 7.