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Cash for clunkers

post #1 of 337
Thread Starter 
Mr. Barilliant Obamazing got a hit on his hand.
Cars are flying out the lots and less CO2 is produced. Its not much but hey we got to start somewhere.
Maybe it's not always bad to copy socialist democratic countries' ideas. This one is from Germany.

CONGRATULATIONS Mr. President.

booboopi dooo!
post #2 of 337
And like any other unconstitutional government run program, it's poorly planned and managed (already ran out of money) and has unintended consequences.

And you want the government to run health care?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #3 of 337
Yea were trading up running cars that get less than 18 mpg for cars get at least 20 mpg. SCORE! Plus when you buy a car like a Ford Fusion you are helping to employ Americans that are not and live in Mexico. SCORE! Plus you crush a running car that could be used by someone else that cannot afford a new one. FUCK 'EM! Oh I mean SCORE!
post #4 of 337
arrogance and elitism, let them eat/ tax cupcakes
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #5 of 337
Yes...well done, Mr. Obama. Well done--especially since it wasn't your idea. Well done with the administration too. The program was suspended and reactivated today because the government 1)Basically ran out of money for the program and 2)Couldn't administer it properly. Congress just approved 2 billion more.

Of course, this is just more of what helped get the American auto companies (particularly GM) into trouble in the first place. No one will buy an American car anymore without rebates or 0% financing. Then it became:

Rebates of up to 25% of sticker PLUS:
Loyalty discount---for buying another GM
Conquest discount--for replacing a non-GM car with a new GM.
College discount---for recent college graduates
Absurdly low financing to lower monthly payments.

Now we're adding the CARS program. Personally, I'm waiting for the FREE DRUGS and WHORES program. I hear that's next.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #6 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yes...well done, Mr. Obama. Well done--especially since it wasn't your idea. Well done with the administration too. The program was suspended and reactivated today because the government 1)Basically ran out of money for the program and 2)Couldn't administer it properly. Congress just approved 2 billion more.

Of course, this is just more of what helped get the American auto companies (particularly GM) into trouble in the first place. No one will buy an American car anymore without rebates or 0% financing. Then it became:

Rebates of up to 25% of sticker PLUS:
Loyalty discount---for buying another GM
Conquest discount--for replacing a non-GM car with a new GM.
College discount---for recent college graduates
Absurdly low financing to lower monthly payments.

Now we're adding the CARS program. Personally, I'm waiting for the FREE DRUGS and WHORES program. I hear that's next.

California's giving away free pot. Maybe they can combine the programs somehow.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #7 of 337
This is the kind of thing the stimulous program should have attempted to accomplish from the start. Raw materials are being bought and sold, the auto manufactures are producing, banks are lending money, consumers are actually getting something - personally - in return for their tax dollars.

It's about time.
post #8 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

And you want the government to run health care?

The US gov is running one of the best health care sys. in the world. Ask any Republican senator, gov worker and soldier.

Of course a private insurance co of questionable integrity will do a better job for you.
post #9 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yes...well done, Mr. Obama. Well done--especially since it wasn't your idea. Well done with the administration too. The program was suspended and reactivated today because the government 1)Basically ran out of money for the program and 2)Couldn't administer it properly. Congress just approved 2 billion more.

Of course, this is just more of what helped get the American auto companies (particularly GM) into trouble in the first place. No one will buy an American car anymore without rebates or 0% financing. Then it became:

Rebates of up to 25% of sticker PLUS:
Loyalty discount---for buying another GM
Conquest discount--for replacing a non-GM car with a new GM.
College discount---for recent college graduates
Absurdly low financing to lower monthly payments.

Now we're adding the CARS program. Personally, I'm waiting for the FREE DRUGS and WHORES program. I hear that's next.

You urgently and desperately need some of those free drugs.
post #10 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

You urgently and desperately need some of those free drugs.

If you can't refute or otherwise engage in the topic, then go away.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #11 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

If you can't refute or otherwise engage in the topic, then go away.

Volltrottel.
post #12 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

The US gov is running one of the best health care sys. in the world. Ask any Republican senator, gov worker and soldier.

Of course a private insurance co of questionable integrity will do a better job for you.

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #13 of 337
Conservatives are the cockroaches and termites of the political kingdom.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #14 of 337
~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdiH...eature=related




Aah...fake... oh well......

(no analogies required!)
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #15 of 337

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #16 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman

Quote:
Friedman opposed government regulation of many types.

As we now know, unregulated greed can get us into troubles even jews can't predict.

Freedom of choice. Freedom of speech.
Freedom without rules and laws is tyranny.
post #17 of 337
Ahhhh yes! Rejoice! Rejoice!

"Cash for Clunkers" wherein the federal government brilliantly and magically attempts to create new wealth by destroying wealth and where the unintended negative consequences (yes there will be many) include reducing the stock of capital in the country as well as reducing the supply of available used (less expensive) cars for those poor souls who can only afford (less expensive) used cars.

I think the next program that should be offered up is to pay the unemployed to go around and break people's windows! The boost to the economy should be phenomenal!
post #18 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Ahhhh yes! Rejoice! Rejoice!

"Cash for Clunkers" wherein the federal government brilliantly and magically attempts to create new wealth by destroying wealth and where the unintended negative consequences (yes there will be many) include reducing the stock of capital in the country as well as reducing the supply of available used (less expensive) cars for those poor souls who can only afford (less expensive) used cars.

I think the next program that should be offered up is to pay the unemployed to go around and break people's windows! The boost to the economy should be phenomenal!

Yet another PO fairy tale.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #19 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

The US gov is running one of the best health care sys. in the world. Ask any Republican senator, gov worker and soldier.

Of course a private insurance co of questionable integrity will do a better job for you.

At V.A. Hospital, a Rogue Cancer Unit

Quote:
For patients with prostate cancer, it is a common surgical procedure: a doctor implants dozens of radioactive seeds to attack the disease. But when Dr. Gary D. Kao treated one patient at the veterans hospital in Philadelphia, his aim was more than a little off


...

Had the government responded more aggressively, it might have uncovered a rogue cancer unit at the hospital, one that operated with virtually no outside scrutiny and botched 92 of 116 cancer treatments over a span of more than six years and then kept quiet about it, according to interviews with investigators, government officials and public records.

I'll sign you up for the high quality prostate cancer treatment and then laugh my ass off when they burn a hole in your rectum.
post #20 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yet another PO fairy tale.

Which part?
post #21 of 337
The real shame of all this is that C4C only increase the debt and makes the $4500 spent now cost a lot more down the road. People that want a new car now should just get a loan and finance it that way rather than fucking over future tax payers.

Obama, fucking over future tax payers since 2009.
post #22 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

At V.A. Hospital, a Rogue Cancer Unit

I'll sign you up for the high quality prostate cancer treatment and then laugh my ass off when they burn a hole in your rectum.

At least you could sign me up. Opposed to you I was in the military.
However 50,000,000 people in the US can not even afford to get a hole burned into their rectum.

This thread is about cars. You of all people should be happy, Mr. hydraulic fluid in a cylinder with a hand pump.

What was the IQ of a jack again?
Business loves it
post #23 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

At least you could sign me up. Opposed to you I was in the military.
However 50,000,000 people in the US can not even afford to get a hole burned into their rectum.

If that number is meant to refer to the number of people in the U.S. without health insurance (and specifically cannot afford health insurance), then it is wrong. Check your figures: http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=51443


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Business loves it

What a surprise, an industry that's being subsidized by the government is happy about the results of the subsidy!
post #24 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

If that number is meant to refer to the number of people in the U.S. without health insurance (and specifically cannot afford health insurance), then it is wrong. Check your figures: http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=51443

This page should actually be called the right wing news.Terence_P._Jeffrey

Much luck to the people making 75,000 it costs 36,000 just to have a minor gastro intestinal surgery. They will immediately go bankrupt if they get cancer.
Acute pancreatitis can cost up to 2,500,000. Open heart surgery 250,000 that's without post surgical care.

Foreigners also work. Therefore they should have insurance as well.

"Because he said so?"
post #25 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

What a surprise, an industry that's being subsidized by the government is happy about the results of the subsidy!

They will vote democratic.
Your attitude is the one that is currently not only destroying the GOP but making it completely irrelevant in the next election.

Cash for clunkers will be on people's minds when they drive their 1 year old car to the polls.

The Car dealers will think twice to write a check to a GOP candidate.

A+ to all the RWNs (right wing nuts, at least they are easy to screw) for absolutely not getting it.
post #26 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

If you can't refute or otherwise engage in the topic, then go away.

Do you mean something like your " Get's up to make popcorn " comment?

These things always come back to haunt you SDW.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #27 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

And like any other unconstitutional government run program, it's poorly planned and managed (already ran out of money) and has unintended consequences.

And you want the government to run health care?

Your source is really independent huh?

These guys think the US has good health care, # 37 in the world behind countries who ALL have public health care. Wow you guys are mega loosers on this one. The next election is going to eliminate another 50% of the GOP from congress AND the house. I am going to have to vote Republican just so I can keep throwing stuff at the TV.
post #28 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

This page should actually be called the right wing news.Terence_P._Jeffrey

An ad hominem? Is that all you have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Much luck to the people making 75,000 it costs 36,000 just to have a minor gastro intestinal surgery. They will immediately go bankrupt if they get cancer.
Acute pancreatitis can cost up to 2,500,000. Open heart surgery 250,000 that's without post surgical care.

Yes. So? You're trying some misdirection here now that your 50 million people can't afford health insurance number has been shown to be a lie. I wouldn't deny it is probably unwise for people who can afford to have insurance not to have it. It could be catastrophic for them. But the point was your claim is plainly false.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

They will vote democratic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Cash for clunkers will be on people's minds when they drive their 1 year old car to the polls.

The Car dealers will think twice to write a check to a GOP candidate.

Probably.

The fact that people tend to vote for politicians that give them free money (or other perks) without having to really work for it is not a terribly insightful observation. Furthermore, what gets people's votes isn't necessarily what is best for the country.
post #29 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

So? You're trying some misdirection here now that your 50 million people can't afford health insurance number has been shown to be a lie.

By whom?

Isn't the GOP against census?
Bachmann ...

Somehow they do love the data.
If you could trade in all the GOP reps for cash, would you get new ones?
post #30 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

The US gov is running one of the best health care sys. in the world. Ask any Republican senator, gov worker and soldier.

Of course a private insurance co of questionable integrity will do a better job for you.

And the US Government's integrity is beyond reproach? As for the government "running" the healthcare system, it does not. The US Healthcare system IS the best in the world because the government hasn't been in involved. The problem is not the system, it's the way in which we pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

At least you could sign me up. Opposed to you I was in the military.
However 50,000,000 people in the US can not even afford to get a hole burned into their rectum.

This thread is about cars. You of all people should be happy, Mr. hydraulic fluid in a cylinder with a hand pump.

What was the IQ of a jack again?
Business loves it

I have to chime in and call bullshit on your number. The last highly suspect number I heard was "47 million," not 50 million. Of course, that supposedly represents the total number of people without health insurance. I don't buy that number. But even if I did, it's likely to include up to 20 million illegal immigrants. Should they get free health insurance too? Of those remaining 27 million people, there are those that don't want or even need health insurance. People like you make it seem like there are 12 million middle class US families that have no health insurance because Dad lost his job in the factory (to which he drove to work in his F-150 with his "Union Yes" sticker on the back). What a snow job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Do you mean something like your " Get's up to make popcorn " comment?

These things always come back to haunt you SDW.

Uh...that was like one day ago. Secondly, that was not my entire post and you damn well know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

BTW if you could read you would have noticed that I stated this very same thing in my opening post.

Congrats. You just got reported for a personal attack. Kudos!
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #31 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

By whom?

Minimally by U.S. Census data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Isn't the GOP against census?

I have no idea. Go ask someone in the GOP.
post #32 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


Congrats. You just got reported for a personal attack. Kudos!

Oh, Mr. moderator, this bad, bad man says bad bad things about me, wahhhhhhh.
post #33 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

...
Cars are flying out the lots and less CO2 is produced...

Cars are flying off the lot because no-one has bought a new one since the possibility of this program was raised ... a lot were merely sales that SHOULD have taken place a month (or two) ago.

less CO2? ... are you sure?
The old cars (many of which still run just fine) are being destroyed rather than re-sold... forcing them to be replaced by MORE new cars... using up MORE raw materials and creating a bunch of CO2 during the manufacturing processes. (same goes for all the re-sellable PARTS on them as well... we now must manufacture new parts.)
Also... the people that would have bought that 1989 Camry on the used market (and can't afford a new car) are going to continue driving their 1972 LTD because the perfectly good Camry got crushed... possibly a net INCREASE in CO2.


yes, that's all conjecture... but I'm not convinced this program has really created any benefit, regardless of the spin.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #34 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Cars are flying off the lot because no-one has bought a new one since the possibility of this program was raised ... a lot were merely sales that SHOULD have taken place a month (or two) ago.

less CO2? ... are you sure?
The old cars (many of which still run just fine) are being destroyed rather than re-sold... forcing them to be replaced by MORE new cars... using up MORE raw materials and creating a bunch of CO2 during the manufacturing processes. (same goes for all the re-sellable PARTS on them as well... we now must manufacture new parts.)
Also... the people that would have bought that 1989 Camry on the used market (and can't afford a new car) are going to continue driving their 1972 LTD because the perfectly good Camry got crushed... possibly a net INCREASE in CO2.


yes, that's all conjecture... but I'm not convinced this program has really created any benefit, regardless of the spin.

Since the invention of the Bessemer Pear around 1890 we can melt down steel and make new high quality steel out of it and save a ton of energy. The steel recycling biz is a thriving industry.
Older cars need more oil, burn oil (extremely toxic) and simply stink. If you have lifted an 8 cyl out of a car versus a 4 cyl you know how much more metal is involved making the 8 cyl.
Bottom line: you haven't thought his through all the way.
post #35 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Since the invention of the Bessemer Pear around 1890 we can melt down steel and make new high quality steel out of it and save a ton of energy. The steel recycling biz is a thriving industry.
Older cars need more oil, burn oil (extremely toxic) and simply stink. If you have lifted an 8 cyl out of a car versus a 4 cyl you know how much more metal is involved making the 8 cyl.
Bottom line: you haven't thought his through all the way.

Apparently this process involves no energy use nor does the manufacture of the new vehicle from the steel!

Bottom line: Stop calling people stupid over disagreements.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

..we can melt down steel and make new high quality steel out of it and save a ton of energy...

And then you start the entire new-auto manufacturing process... a process of energy consumption that could be entirely avoided by re-using that old car (again... letting the 1972 LTD get crushed instead of the 1989 Camry.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

... If you have lifted an 8 cyl out of a car versus a 4 cyl...

I have... several times... have you?

That difference in weight (less than 200 lbs) is a non-factor when the entire car's weight is taken into account.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #37 of 337
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

And then you start the entire new-auto manufacturing process... a process of energy consumption that could be entirely avoided by re-using that old car (again... letting the 1972 LTD get crushed instead of the 1989 Camry.)

I have... several times... have you?

That difference in weight (less than 200 lbs) is a non-factor when the entire car's weight is taken into account.


Yes, I have lifted engines out of cars. I grew up in a worker family. If something broke we fixed it ourselves. I was the proud owner of a 1967 Ford Mustang Mach 2 and an AMC Gremlin as well as a Ford Escort and several Citroens. Then I started driving Japanese cars .... hmm wonder why I never had to take out a Japanese engine???

200 LBS x 250,000 (traded cars) = 50,000,000 LBS that's a lot of metal. Cars with heavy engines are also overall heavier (except sports cars) and sport heavy gear boxes as well as a huge differential or two all made from steel.

I would have to study the stats to see how many people are still driving a 1972 LTDs.
But if you are inclined to drive old cars that's cool. I myself prefer less smelly car interiors and prefer to know that my fellow drivers car is in good working order.
post #38 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Since the invention of the Bessemer Pear around 1890 we can melt down steel and make new high quality steel out of it and save a ton of energy. The steel recycling biz is a thriving industry.
Older cars need more oil, burn oil (extremely toxic) and simply stink. If you have lifted an 8 cyl out of a car versus a 4 cyl you know how much more metal is involved making the 8 cyl.
Bottom line: you haven't thought his through all the way.

No, I'm afraid you haven't. You're assuming that we are dealing with "true clunkers" here. Many of the cars are less than 5 years old. The new models just happen to get 4mpg more. They're not going to use less oil. They aren't going to be much better on emissions. And they absolutely use more energy when we look at how much they consumed just to be built.

Also, are you aware that dealers are required to destroy the "clunkers" completely? We have dealers pouring what amounts to epoxy glue into engines that would be perfectly usable as first cars for kids, lower income people, etc. Instead, the government is giving $4500 away. It's $4500 of OUR money. That means I get to help subsidize your new car.

And what happens when the program ends? This is the kind of program on which people become dependent. It happened with factory rebates...now it's happening with government rebates.
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post #39 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Mr. Barilliant Obamazing got a hit on his hand.
Cars are flying out the lots...

If that is truly the measure of a "good and successful" government program... then just imagine how much better it would be if they were giving a $10,000 refund. Or better yet, the gov could subsidize the entire price of a new car ... EVERYone would get a new car then. Boy that would REALLY whip the economy into shape, wouldn't it!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #40 of 337
Thread Starter 
I got my 4.5k yesterday.
No longer have my Dodge Grand Caravan with 135,712 miles.
Electric windows didn't work, many times the engine kept running after taking the key out.
dripping oil.
My city just made a couple, very badly needed, grand in sales tax. Maybe they can keep all the ambulances and fire trucks in service for a while longer or do not have to put them on rotation ever. The dealers are happy. I got a new Toyota Highlander Hybrid for the wife, she is happy. I got a write off for the biz, another tax break through the program, I am happy. The new car gets around 10 miles more per gallon. I feel I got something for the 6 figure taxes I pay each year.

And you SDW2001BC are by far the most intelligent person on this planet. Beyond anything anyone can imagine really.
Please name one person you know who is dependent on factory rebates and now hooked on government rebates.

Unfortunately the dealers now have an overwhelming amount of US cars to be destroyed. Astrovan is the number 1 clunker being returned to my dealer mostly older than 10 years.

Shit now the kids have to drive newer cars, they'll be so pissed driving around in a new Focus or such.
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