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Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

The objects are not in the exact same place, the camera is not in the same positions, the lighting in the background varies, etc.

Yeah, it's a rather unfair image. The person should have taken several photos at different angles to prove the glare is really that bad.

Besides that, the glossy screen looks a little darker. If you turn the screen's brightness way down, doesn't that affect glare as well? I see that on my phone all the time.
post #42 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Amazing. I simply ask why it cost so much, looking for an honest response, and I'm told that I'm bitching and I expect a free laptop.

Yes, the only thing worse than someone bitching, is someone bitching about someone bitching.

But, as others have pointed out, they cost more because they are quite obviously buying and making these in smaller quantities, so the parts and assembly costs are higher, which is pretty much the case with any optional configuration for anything. $50 is a pretty reasonable additional cost given the nature of the option.
post #43 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Why? Because it proves you wrong? That photo is of a unibody MacBook Pro with glossy at full brightness, and a unibody MacBook Pro with matte at full brightness. The glossy reflects like crazy and the matte doesn't. Surely if glossy beats matte hands-down outside, a photograph wouldn't show the opposite? The photos are not taken at weird angles, but at what looks to me to be normal viewing position.

I (via someone else's photos) have provided evidence that matte beats glossy outside, you have nothing to back up your waffling.

Both the pictures that showed major reflections were not taken from the mac users point of view. One was taken from the side and the other was taken from above. I would consider the pictures taken there to be far from objective.
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post #44 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

On a completely different note, the matt screen protector you can get for the iPhone makes it look a lot better and makes it easier to glide your finger (no sticky smudges). Matt FTW.

Which brand?

 

 

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post #45 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Yeah, it's a rather unfair image. The person should have taken several photos at different angles to prove the glare is really that bad.

Besides that, the glossy screen looks a little darker. If you turn the screen's brightness way down, doesn't that affect glare as well? I see that on my phone all the time.

Yes, but keep in mind that there is a difference between 'glare' and 'reflection.'

Reflection can be altered by adjusting the amount, position or angle of light shining on the object seen in the reflection.

Glare can be altered by adjusting the intensity of the light shining directly on the reflective surface or the refractive index of the reflective surface, i.e, in this case the screen.

In any case, it should be buyer beware. Gloss and Mattes have their unique features and for some, demanding advantages. Now we have a choice. To continue to dwell on it in an accusatory fashion is childish. As is somebody dissing anyone who attemp to help those make a choice.
post #46 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Yeah that's it. I think Apple should give us free laptops because this matte screen business costs too much.

LOL

 

 

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post #47 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A glossy unibody MacBook Pro side-by-side with a previous-gen matte MacBook Pro | Source: Flickr user Loustechworld

Looks just like my iPhone, till I turn it on.
post #48 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Well would ya look at that.


we MAY never see mac tripper again.
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post #49 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Be Forewarned.

Agree absolutely. The new backlit LCDs on the MacBooks with a glossy screen are significantly superior vs a matte screen outside (especially sporting events), or in an equally, brightly diffussed indoor room, as well as in a darkened interior.

Are there any notebooks that have stronger Rayleigh coatings? That would be ideal in my opinion, both gloss and matte fall short of a good Rayleigh type antiglare surface. I have camcorders and still cameras with that kind of surface and they are more usable outdoors than glossy or matte devices. I had several 17, 19" and 21" CRT screens that had Rayleigh coatings. Even Apple's "studio" CRTs had them before they switched to LCD.
post #50 of 151
Grey is good for critical color work. Grey is neutral and does not corrupt your eye against colors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Nice. Too bad that it uses a grey bezel though. That makes no sense. A matte black bezel frames the image so much nicer. That's passive-aggressive Apple though, no matter what they give you, they always insist on taking something away at the same time.
post #51 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

See I was under the impression it was the other way around, where more people wanted matte. They have the numbers though I guess. If it was the other way around, it would really appear as though they were taking advantage of that and getting some extra cash from everyone for the most logical choice in the two.

The iVisor costs like 35 bucks. I guess an extra 15 to have it actually part of the screen aint too bad.



Amazing. I simply ask why it cost so much, looking for an honest response, and I'm told that I'm bitching and I expect a free laptop.

Yeah that's it. I think Apple should give us free laptops because this matte screen business costs too much.

see matte dude's are the loudest most annoying complainers ever. Over and over they bitched for months with stupid bogus eye claims and such .

the glossy glare reflection problem is a firmware issue to be fixed in 2 or 3 yrs . A simple german/swiss glass treatment used in dubai's bright sun. And we will be able to switch anti glare on and off .

What happened is APPLE went green and glass is greenest screen .
AND glass reflects light > law of nature . My MBP movie playback is incredible . Yes i can read the newspaper behind me . But after a few months you barely notice seeing front and back at the same time.

peace all you happy matte campers and a special hug to mactripper ./

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post #52 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, the only thing worse than someone bitching, is someone bitching about someone bitching.

But, as others have pointed out, they cost more because they are quite obviously buying and making these in smaller quantities, so the parts and assembly costs are higher, which is pretty much the case with any optional configuration for anything. $50 is a pretty reasonable additional cost given the nature of the option.

Or someone pompously commenting about someone bitching about someone bitching. He was asking a valid question and the fanboy express jumped down his throat because you people have nothing but blind allegiance for Apple. The point is, matte should have been there all along. Period. To charge $50 for that option now is nickel and diming Apples loyal customers, professionals that prefer matte. Don't give me any shit about production costs, they have plenty of money and all the resources already in place.
post #53 of 151
I read an interesting article of people who would not purchase a iPhone due to cost, and when apple reduced the price to $99 for the older model, 84% of those in the study went out and purchased, but grabbed the 3GS version. Turns out price was not the driving factor, just the excuse.

Now that this and firewire are available, everyone who took issue with these items being removed run out and purchase. I will sit here and watch the stock.

Ready, set, go!
post #54 of 151
It sounds to me as though that $50 is practically all profit. Apple seems to be saying, 'Be careful what you wish for.'
post #55 of 151
Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

See I was under the impression it was the other way around, where more people wanted matte. They have the numbers though I guess. If it was the other way around, it would really appear as though they were taking advantage of that and getting some extra cash from everyone for the most logical choice in the two.
post #56 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Or someone pompously commenting about someone bitching about someone bitching.

Yes, that's exactly my point!
post #57 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Which brand?

This one

Power Support.

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post #58 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

Nice, but FIFTY DOLLARS! It used to be free!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well, I know you have to pay more, but it is understandable, it's an option and not part of their standard system spec, they are not buying the matte screens in bulk anymore.

Yep. they have this as an option only because they likely don't believe it to be a high enough demand to really go full out. based partially, i would guess, on the previous sales numbers. The loud complaints of folks on places like this are a small fraction of the user base. as would be the yelling of advanced industries like professional photographers, video editors etc (not all of whom are guaranteed to be griping).

because it is option only they would be buying the parts in smaller amounts which means they can't get the price deals they could get on their standard parts. plus the labor to build a machine from scratch for you etc. be glad it is just $50. it is very possible that that only covers the cost of the screen and bezel, forget the labor etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW View Post

This also illustrates very clearly that "being vocal" has merit,

don't pat yourself on the back too much. you still have to order it. true merit would be if they could have it as a standard form, so you can go to a store and buy it whenever you want without the 10 day wait.

Quote:
May now the voices of reason begin to cry out over the insanity of Apple's MACK-truck-flattened abominations they call "keyboards."

funny. you hate them. I know quite a number of folks that love the new keyboard. quieter, lighter tap needed. and surprise -- some of those folks are actually Wintel users that replaced the 'fat' keyboard that came with their PC with the Apple one.

The only complaint anyone had was that the wireless didn't have a 10 key pad. and that was one guy that was doing Final Cut (seems some of the shortcuts are on that pad). he would have liked to have gone wireless.

Quote:
Indeed, I have little doubt that Jobs and Ive both want a 100% non-mechanical keyboard in the future, with recent keyboards from Apple acting as mere stepping-stones to a truly horrific tomorrow.

what is so horrific about that. I've seen talk of a touchscreen keyboard that would adjust to the software and settings being used that would be brilliant. When you have final cut on, the keys are the shortcuts. when you have on Word it is your keyboard and when the tap of a button your shortcuts appear, if you switch to another language such as russian, the labels change etc.

clearly with your anachronistic proclivities, you think such an idea to be retched, but many would probably jump at the possibility. or even take it a step further and eliminate physical keyboard altogether and use one that is laser based (and similarly flexible) from the bottom of the display

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

I read an interesting article of people who would not purchase a iPhone due to cost, and when apple reduced the price to $99 for the older model, 84% of those in the study went out and purchased, but grabbed the 3GS version. Turns out price was not the driving factor, just the excuse.

keep in mind that the cost and storage changed. $199 for 8gb was too expensive but many of them likely felt that $199 for 16gb was more reasonable.

and for many the 'cost' isn't the phone but the added bill
post #59 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.

I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.
post #60 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Are there any notebooks that have stronger Rayleigh coatings? That would be ideal in my opinion, both gloss and matte fall short of a good Rayleigh type antiglare surface. I have camcorders and still cameras with that kind of surface and they are more usable outdoors than glossy or matte devices.

I have no idea.

I don't think there is an ideal that suits everyone. And even the ideal for one person is not always ideal.

Having worn glasses most of my life and then getting laser surgery, I really appreciate nothing between me and the object I am looking at.

Anything in between reminds me of those, 'transition' lenses. Great for some. But for most, it just isn't worth the compromise.

Now of course, we are all waiting for the massive increase in MacBook sales generated by all those who so adamantly declared they were just waiting for Apple to give them the choice.

Further Reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating
post #61 of 151
This makes me glad I got an early 2008 matte mbp, just before apple refreshed the notebook line. With it I've outlived this whole glossy/antiglare + $50 saga. Hopefully in 2-3 years time the options will be better
post #62 of 151
Great, Apple! Now give us back the ExpressCard that you stole from us from the 15" MacBook Pro, and we'll be back on good terms with you again!

More details here:
Apple: Bring the ExpressCard slot back to the 15″ MacBook Pro!
post #63 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, that's exactly my point!

Expected
post #64 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Or someone pompously commenting about someone bitching about someone bitching. He was asking a valid question and the fanboy express jumped down his throat because you people have nothing but blind allegiance for Apple. The point is, matte should have been there all along. Period. To charge $50 for that option now is nickel and diming Apples loyal customers, professionals that prefer matte. Don't give me any shit about production costs, they have plenty of money and all the resources already in place.

Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.

In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.

Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!

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post #65 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.

What would be the fallacy? People buy what they want...Apple isn't forcing people to buy laptops.

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post #66 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlfranz View Post

Good luck with that! Most people (myself included) think the current keyboard action is the best they have ever used. I hate typing in an old style keyboard after being spoiled by the new design.

Agree 100%. The "new" keyboard is awesome. The only mistake was lopping off the numeric keypad, that was a DUMB move. Mine is now a year and a half old and has a lot of mileage on it, and still performs great. They just need a Bluetooth version with numeric keypad, and should either switch to or offer black keys.
post #67 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.

In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.

Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!

The fact that you would label me as a troll is something you should think about. Look man, I'm not looking for an argument here but I don't need a lecture on business and economics. I'm well aware of Apple's business model, that's the point. I'm not self entitled type nor do I expect Apple to be giving anything away, I simply don't agree with the Apple tax sometimes.
post #68 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What would be the fallacy? People buy what they want...Apple isn't forcing people to buy laptops.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/post-hoc/
post #69 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Expected

Humorless
post #70 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.

There is nothing wrong with his logic. Apple is offering an option for an additional cost. Its not the default configuration, any cost difference would be negligible if the matte and glossy sold in equal numbers but they dont, and the most popular, highest volume selling notebook from notebook doesnt even come with a matte option. All of that screams that its not a popular as glossy. I certainly prefer glossy but Im glad the option is available for those that need/want it and for those that truly do prefer it I dont think the extra cost should be a deal breaker with all things considered.
post #71 of 151
Not to brag. but myself and some others have predicted that this would happen. Apple has realzed that more $$ can be gained by including matte than not.
The 17" was not just an experiment as a few deluded fanboyz had stated- Apple headed the word of professionals and knew it had to return not just there but everywhere.
I can't wait until it finally returns to the iMac where it is needed the most. The 24" high- glossy screen is just an abomination- especially when it is turned off.
Thank you, thank you.
post #72 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.

I completely agree with you, but isn't there a tiny niggling part of you that wonders, very occasionally, whether Apple makes decisions like this because the company likes its users to experience things in a particular way? In a way that they think is the right way, not necessarily the way people actually do things.

Now often this works well, it's part of the Mac experience we all love, and a growing part of the iPhone experience. But every now and again, it's a bad call. Matte screens, Firewire on MacBooks etc are examples of this. I just wonder sometimes.

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

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post #73 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.

In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.

Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!

A fanboy is a fanboy. If you back up Apple for not including matte screens because Apple told you they should be dropped and you fell for it, then you need to carry that title. It's all very simple.
post #74 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.

Now how would you know whether Apple would be selling even more if matte were offered currently? Apparently Apple has done the math and realizes that there is more to be made by those who don't want the high gloss mess, myself included.
post #75 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The return of Firewire AND Matte. Wow. Is this because of Jobs or because he hasn't been around much till recently (is he still working from home some days?)...

Maybe it will come out he deleted them because his illness or meds were affecting his decision making? Now he sees the light after his leave of absence. Don't forget blu-ray (the bag of hurt) is also on the horizon. All that is left is for him to replace the racoon fugly iMac design with the mismatched mouse.
post #76 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

The objects are not in the exact same place, the camera is not in the same positions, the lighting in the background varies, etc.

Of course the glossy will reflect more than the matte.

But the matte has drawbacks as well. In most cases, we don't work on applications or documents most of the time with black or dark backgrounds. Pure white backgrounds as one uses in word processing, vs the extreme to black, doesn't cause reflection or glare.

Using the MacBook Pro (glossy) on the boat is a hell of a lot better than our mattes.

By the way, matte does reflect. We just tested the Museum Glass and it reflects as well. Everything does in the right position. As everything doesn't in the right position.

Bottom line. As I suggested, take them both out into the daylight before you make a decision. Many have changed their minds, i.e., "the gloss doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would," "The gloss is so much more vibrant, it works better for me," to "I like the matte better because I don't get any glare."

But to unilaterally hate glossy because of what others have said and not make the final judgement yourself under your ideal conditions is ludicrous.

Everybody has the choice now, why not let them decide for themselves?

Speak for yourself. Print, web, multimedia, video, 3D, architects, etc. rarely work in an all white word document type scenario. Notice the color of this web page.

A matte monitor is not the same as museum glass. I didn't catch it from the article, but I don't believe Apple is going to put anti-glare museum glass in front of a matte LCD, but I could be wrong.
post #77 of 151
Good news for me, because I work a lot on dark backgrounds, and no amount of backlighting can cut through reflections on black. Deep glassy blacks are neither deep nor black unless your surroundings are dim.

Bad news for me, because I was convinced the matte display was gone for a couple years, so I just bought a new battery and upgraded the OS on my Oct 2006 MBP.

Good news for me, because by the time I need a new computer, Apple might switch back to glossy from glassy, which would be the best of both worlds.

Bad news for me, because this laptop is slowly falling apart
post #78 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Wait, the IPHONE brought about the trend towards glossy screens??

I know , which is totally ludicrous when you consider how a 4" screen would dictate how a 24" iMac screen should look.
post #79 of 151
Quote:
... with a standard keyboard that has the numeric keypad hacked off (yes, I am aware you can get the keypad for free as an optional choice, but only via Apple's store).

Not so - many of the major online stores offer this choice too. As an example I just bought a 3.06 imac with the Radeon 4850 and the numeric keyboard from Powermax. It was configured just as I wanted and I had the choice of several stores to buy from, not just Apple.

FYI. Cheers
post #80 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

There is nothing wrong with his logic.

Quote:

It could be that the sales numbers do reflect at least a non-aversion to glossy screens. On the other hand, It could be that most people are against glossy screens, but that factor doesn't outweigh the other advantages they see in an Apple laptop. I was, rather obliquely, pointing out that Apple's sales numbers for laptops could be dependent on factors that have little or nothing to do with glossy vs. matte screens, so, without knowing exactly what is driving sales, it's not valid to make points about glossy vs. matte screens based on the sales numbers.

Personally, I'm somewhat ambivalent on the glossy vs. matte issue, and I wouldn't make a buy/don't buy decision based solely, nor even primarily, on that factor.
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