Zune HD price leak: $100 less than Apple iPod touch - Page 4

Originally Posted by brucep

already ipods are being dumped for the almighty ZUNE .


They may even name a street after ZUNE .
ZUNE street .

Originally Posted by kotatsu

I watched the new videos of the Zune HD on Engadget today and I have to say MS have done a fantastic job. The interface is *very* slick indeed, and the OLED screen is beautiful. Looking at my iPhone with it's many screens of black text on a plain white background does feel rather dated by comparison.

Competition is good, and I think MS may well have produced a better product than the iPod Touch, and at a much fairer price too. The ball is now in Apple's court.

Originally Posted by djdj

Wow. This is the only site I've been on that is criticizing the Zune HD so heavily. The commenters on every other site (including generally Apple-biased engadget) are praising it almost universally. In fairness, let's look a few things that it has going for it:

New features:

* Slick and responsive 3D user interface
* Innovative new features like:
* pinning favorites
* artist bio / related artists / photos
* screen saver
* OLED 16:9 screen (LCD next to OLED looks hideous)
* Playback of high definition video
* Output of high definition video via HDMI
* High performance CPU
* HD radio
* Integration of video store with Xbox 360

A few things carried over from previous models:

* "Twist" user interface (it's great if you haven't used it) makes it easy to get around
* High quality audio output (beats any iPod, hands down)
* User interface is output via video/dock cable so it can be used on a television
* FM radio
* (Likely) free firmware updates with new features for existing and prior models

A few corrections to comments made:

* Microsoft has stated that games and other applications are coming
* The device does play back HD video on the OLED screen

And a few personal criticisms of the device:

* Generally I think touch screen devices make terrible music players. The lack of track navigation and play/pause button makes them difficult (and dangerous) to use while walking/driving. And very difficult to use one-handed.
* With HD video capability, we need a 64GB or larger capacity model.

It still isn't a direct competitor to the iPod Touch, but it's going to be an amazing device in its own right. For those that are not interested in the App Store, the ZHD is going to be a compelling device.

The release of the Zune HD will mean good things for Apple users, though. The competition will force Apple to step up their game with future products, and the price point is going to mean cheaper prices on the iPod Touch in the future as well.

Originally Posted by eksodos

Agreed on all counts.

I'm an Apple fan boy, but I'm definitely going to buy me a 32gb Zune HD. Microsoft has done a great job with this device and, coupled with their excellent music subscription service, this is a very appealing product for music lovers. The UI looks slick and totally gorgeous. The Zune software has improved by a magnitude of 100 too, which was necessary after the initial revisions bundled with early gen models.

Microsoft keeps hitting them out of the park atm.... Is it any coincidence that this is all happening after Bill Gates stepped down from his day-to-day role at the company?

Originally Posted by addabox

And, again, every feature that is being touted makes the Zune HD an amazing competitor for the Nano. All of the UI "innovations" are variants on navigating the original iPod paradigm-- hierarchical lists of media with a couple of extras. Then, of course, there's the big OLED touch screen.

But I still haven't seen anyone explain how the Zune works as a full on palm top computer, which the Touch undeniably is. As I keep saying, if all you need is a PMP, then the Zune looks like a great choice-- but Apple isn't competing with PMPs with the Touch, they're competing with netbooks.

It's almost like the people who are certain that the Zune HD is going to put a fire under Apple's ass have never used a Touch, or never used it for anything other than listening to music and looking a video.

It's possible that MS will release an SDK, offer some native apps, and generally set the HD up for further expansion, but there is absolutely nothing out there that suggests this is the case, and nothing about the UI stuff we've been shown that indicates how that would even work.

Personally, all of this strikes me as being cut from the Vista mold-- a lot of demo video ready UI razzle dazzle that has people getting all light headed from the zoominess, without a lot of actual concern about actual usability. I'm willing to bet the constant zooming in zooming out metaphor that the Zune HD UI appears to make such heavy use of will start to get pretty old pretty fast. UIs aren't action movies; just because people get bored easily doesn't mean that each iteration needs to have even more animation and effects and motion to keep it "fresh."

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

the Zune does not have enough pixels in its display to playback video in true HD on its own screen. it has to downscale the video to it's screen maximum (lesser) resolution. you're wasting a lot of storage space if you load a true HD file on it unless you will actually play it back on a connected HDTV.

Originally Posted by djdj

I own two 16GB iPod Touches (1G & 2G), and they are NOT a substitute for a netbook or other small computer. Not even close. No multi-tasking, no keyboard, small screen, small amount of storage, no connectivity for external devices... shall I go on? Just try to connect your digital camera to an iPod Touch to transfer pictures... As much as you might like them to be, the iPod Touch and iPhones are not general purpose computers.

The only way the Zune HD might be a competitor to the Nano is the fact that they are small flash memory devices. Oh, and there is only a $30 difference between 16GB players. Without a touch screen or wireless connectivity, and its tiny screen and relatively limited file format support, the Nano is an entirely different class of device targeted at a different market. Comparing with the iPod Touch, however, the only real difference is the App Store. The Zune does support third party software, there is just no "Zune app store," at least for now.

There is already an SDK for the Zune. It has been available for coming up on two years. The entire development environment is FREE, and available for download by anyone. It will have to be updated for new features of the Zune HD, but to say that there is no SDK is just wrong.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

You didn't know that playback on an HD screen was the entire point of the HD moniker? It seems like you're repeating what is already well known.

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

tell djdj who wrote just below: "The device does play back HD video on the OLED screen". which it does not.

Originally Posted by djdj

The screen is not HD, but it does play HD videos on the built-in screen. That's the point.

Originally Posted by eksodos

Agreed on all counts.

I'm an Apple fan boy, but I'm definitely going to buy me a 32gb Zune HD. Microsoft has done a great job with this device and, coupled with their excellent music subscription service, this is a very appealing product for music lovers. The UI looks slick and totally gorgeous. The Zune software has improved by a magnitude of 100 too, which was necessary after the initial revisions bundled with early gen models.

Microsoft keeps hitting them out of the park atm.... Is it any coincidence that this is all happening after Bill Gates stepped down from his day-to-day role at the company?

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

the current Zune apps, like the current "thousands" of WinMobile 6.x apps, are just too primitive to be compared with iPhone/Touch apps. they are designed for the current WinMo/CE OS generation that is several years old now, and plainly out of date. the app industry is waiting for WinMo 7.

no matter how one tries to spin it, the 2009 Zune HD is obsolete before it even goes on sale. old tech inside a new OLED shell. or, if you want to be nice, a half step, now with touch screen UI, to the much more serious 2010 product to come. but to buy one, that is sucker bait.

Originally Posted by djdj

The screen is not HD, but it does play HD videos on the built-in screen. That's the point.

Originally Posted by melgross

No, it doesn't. It does the same thing that Apple's video iPods do, it plays a rezzed down version on it's own screen.

While that may seem to be a semantic difference, it's still correct.

By the way, there is a way to bypass Apple's built-in block to recording and playing 720p video on the 3GS. I've seen some results on the net, and it looks pretty good.

Originally Posted by SGSStateStudent

I wonder if they will enable 720p video for the next iPhone..

While the Nano, of course, is a much smaller device than the Zune HD will be (and lacks a web browser), I make the comparison because, like the Nano, the HD appears to be primarily a media playback device. Just because the Nano lacks a touch screen or wireless connectivity doesn't change that-- the Zune, as has been so far revealed, pretty much does what the Nano does-- just with a bigger screen, a touch UI and wireless. So I can listen to music, look at photos, watch a video: on the Zune those things are perhaps more convenient or prettier, but they are still the same tasks.

Originally Posted by mrochester

Don't forgot one massive difference between the Zune and the Nano - you can browse the web on the Zune. That firmly puts it in the same league as the iPod Touch.

Originally Posted by addabox

I disagree that a single additional app puts the Zune in the same league.

For instance, Apple could add browser to the Nano without doing much of anything else to the UI-- just another item on the media list. Obviously they would have to beef up the processor, etc., but that's a difference of degree not kind.

A device like the Touch is more than hardware specs and features. It's the integration of the OS, UI, SDK, apps, and the specific interaction between all of those things, as well as the more general hardware/software ecosystem.

Until the Zune HD demonstrates some sophistication regarding those things, beyond its current presentation as a media player/browser, I will continue to insist that it doesn't really compete with the Touch.

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

no matter how one tries to spin it, the 2009 Zune HD is obsolete before it even goes on sale. old tech inside a new OLED shell. or, if you want to be nice, a half step, now with touch screen UI, to the much more serious 2010 product to come. but to buy one, that is sucker bait.

Originally Posted by kotatsu

Amazing to hear a die hard Apple fanboy in full hate mode. The Zune HD has the kind of buzz around it only an Apple product could generate, it is the no.1 wanted product in GDGT.com, and aside from places like here the opinions expressed so far have been nothing but glowing.

The Zune HD is, in the opinion of the majority, a beautiful device with a screen so outstanding it easily surpasses anything Apple offers. For a media playback device, I'd say having the best screen out there is quite an important feature. The interface has also been pretty much universally praised, and again, in the opinion of most, is better than anything Apple offer.

MS have said apps and games will come. We shall see if they do, but until then, MS may well have produced the best small form factor media player ever. And don't forget Zune Pass, which again is a huge selling point and something Apple do not offer. Oh and I'd personally love my iPhone to accept 720p video. Having to convert stuff twice, once for Apple TV at 720p, and again for iPhone at 320p is a pointless waste of time. Why can't I just feed my iPhone the same 720p video? (I am talking here of video I convert myself, not download from the store)

Originally Posted by kotatsu

Amazing to hear a die hard Apple fanboy in full hate mode. The Zune HD has the kind of buzz around it only an Apple product could generate, it is the no.1 wanted product in GDGT.com, and aside from places like here the opinions expressed so far have been nothing but glowing.

The Zune HD is, in the opinion of the majority, a beautiful device with a screen so outstanding it easily surpasses anything Apple offers. For a media playback device, I'd say having the best screen out there is quite an important feature. The interface has also been pretty much universally praised, and again, in the opinion of most, is better than anything Apple offer.

MS have said apps and games will come. We shall see if they do, but until then, MS may well have produced the best small form factor media player ever. And don't forget Zune Pass, which again is a huge selling point and something Apple do not offer. Oh and I'd personally love my iPhone to accept 720p video. Having to convert stuff twice, once for Apple TV at 720p, and again for iPhone at 320p is a pointless waste of time. Why can't I just feed my iPhone the same 720p video? (I am talking here of video I convert myself, not download from the store)

Originally Posted by kotatsu

Amazing to hear a die hard Apple fanboy in full hate mode. The Zune HD has the kind of buzz around it only an Apple product could generate, it is the no.1 wanted product in GDGT.com, and aside from places like here the opinions expressed so far have been nothing but glowing.

The Zune HD is, in the opinion of the majority, a beautiful device with a screen so outstanding it easily surpasses anything Apple offers. For a media playback device, I'd say having the best screen out there is quite an important feature. The interface has also been pretty much universally praised, and again, in the opinion of most, is better than anything Apple offer.

MS have said apps and games will come. We shall see if they do, but until then, MS may well have produced the best small form factor media player ever. And don't forget Zune Pass, which again is a huge selling point and something Apple do not offer. Oh and I'd personally love my iPhone to accept 720p video. Having to convert stuff twice, once for Apple TV at 720p, and again for iPhone at 320p is a pointless waste of time. Why can't I just feed my iPhone the same 720p video? (I am talking here of video I convert myself, not download from the store)

Originally Posted by melgross

I don't know why they didn't do it this time.

Originally Posted by SGSStateStudent

I guess they are gonna use it for the next iPhone iteration..

Originally Posted by melgross

I don't understand why some think the screen is so great though. It's smaller, and has much less resolution. It's only 480 x 272. The Apple products are 480 x 320 on a bigger screen.

Originally Posted by melgross

it seems to be capable enough to do it. It would be nice if they unlocked it in another software release.

Originally Posted by addabox

Kinda funny to hear someone start a post by calling someone else a fanboy and then go on to talk about the Zune like they were writing ad copy.

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

the current Zune apps, like the current "thousands" of WinMobile 6.x apps, are just too primitive to be compared with iPhone/Touch apps. they are designed for the current WinMo/CE OS generation that is several years old now, and plainly out of date. the app industry is waiting for WinMo 7.

no matter how one tries to spin it, the 2009 Zune HD is obsolete before it even goes on sale. old tech inside a new OLED shell. or, if you want to be nice, a half step, now with touch screen UI, to the much more serious 2010 product to come. but to buy one, that is sucker bait.

Originally Posted by Marvin

Movies are only 16:9 though so it means that you always get black bars on the ipod/iphone or you have to crop the movie. I generally find the ipod/iphone to be too wide. The Zune HD looks like a much better size IMO.

I think the Tegra platform will be incredible performance-wise. We'll have to see if pushing it will drain the battery considerably though. For video and audio, it may significantly outlast an ipod. The UI is very smooth but I wouldn't say any smoother than the ipod/iphone.

I don't like the interface design and navigation at all. It's unique but it looks awkward to use.

If Apple put the same camera from the 3GS on the ipod touch with video, it will be a very competitive feature, no reason why they can't put HD radio on too. I do see the Zune HD being a competitor to the touch and I think it's quite a formidable one.

I like the case design, the colors are better this time round, it has the touch interface, a browser and it's very powerful with the Tegra chipset and is cheaper so has a lot of potential.

If they get some great games on it and a marketplace with integration on the XBox - they might even get games that you buy a 360 version and a Zune HD version together - it will be a bonus for gamers beyond what the ipod has. Apple has no firm grounding in gaming and never tried.

Microsoft's weight in that industry could draw significantly away from one of the ipod/iphone's biggest selling points.

On the plus side, that could bring game developers to both sides but I feel Microsoft will get the good exclusives. Take for example Splinter Cell Conviction - a game you'd think would be on both the 360 and PS3 but it's 360 only.