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Zune HD price leak: $100 less than Apple iPod touch - Page 2

post #41 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.

It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.

Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.

Good point on NAND, because Apple even pays in advance for chips in a flooded market. How nice of them. Next generation touch should have good margins and better features, which should offset any price difference either way. Funny that Zune was the 'social iPod' with its wifi, yet the next touch with camera and mic could be as social as you can get with out a cell plan.

Your 'finally' question, Why do you Question Microsoft's design and layout methodology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.

They are giving them away with current laptop purchases through education, so there has to be a little margin in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

That worked great for XBox!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Thats right. Lost billions for many years right? Sony can't afford to do that, heck what company can? Doesn't make business sense.

That's what Microsoft is scared of, especially considering last quarter. Bet they are all wondering when Apple is going to enter the TV market with an AppleTV built into the LCD. It could only be a matter of time. One less device to hook up, built in mail, chat, voice... weather... well, plex, boxee, xbmc, linuxmce, sageTV, eyeTV... could be hurting for money. Some givens: integration keeps inching along, a great web browser and network connection go a long way, the whole loss leader is killing other companies while Apple is making a profit selling similar products in their market. Love Apple's way of entering other people's markets. One of the differences between Apple Business Model and MS Business Model of the Past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

err sarah palin put lip stick on all her lips

err, wish we had palin as president with pelosi as speaker. We'd have SNL comedy 24/7/365.
btw, how do you know? I really must know !

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

My typical: "And this relates to Apple how?" Competition is all, but this has nothing to do with the inner workings of Apple (Apple's insides) but merely their competition. Its like I'm reading MS Insider.

Main Point:

To those who are already saying how horrible the Zune HD is (or will be), I urge to you first try the device before knocking it. True, it may not be as good as the iPod Touch (and I really hope it is much better than Apple's device so Apple can wake up some), but please don't put the device down until you have touched it, used it, crashed it, bought it, what have you. Only then can one make remarks on how well the device works. Don't make this an MS bashing game again. I'm sick of reading that stuff.

I want to know what the next iPod touch has in store for us? Unlocked bluetooth, oh please? Or built in Mic? Better build quality? Ideas folks?

Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it the Zune HD does look good, so it will be nice to have some competition in the market.

Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.
post #42 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.

It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.

Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.

I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.

The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
.
post #43 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by aga View Post

Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it the Zune HD does look good, so it will be nice to have some competition in the market.

Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.

Yeah, I worry about the "trickle up" theory too. An App Store for the computers, where that would be the only place to buy software would be ridiculous. (No Adobe software since it competes with Aperture/Final Cut, unless Apple bought Adobe) I don't think Apple would be so bold as to go that far. Of course on the linux side one could argue they have an App Store already, YaST or Symantic Package Manager, or what ever the system openSUSE uses. Of course you can still find programs online outside of the repos and install them yourself.

But yeah, I hope the Zune HD holds its own. I love to see companies compete with Apple, regardless who they are. And yes, a linux distro for the Zune would be awesome!

(I keep thinking a linux distro for a Zune or iPod touch like device should be called ARM Candy.)
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
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post #44 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

That worked great for XBox!

Ballmer: "I've got it - drop the price of W7 to $19. We'll fund Windows with the profits from Xbox, we'll fund XBox with the profits from Zune, We'll fund Zune with the profits from Windows, and fund Windows with the profits from FlightSim-Goes-To-11! We've invented the perpetual loss-leader motion machine!"

USPTO: "Next!"
post #45 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanF View Post

The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities.

Me likey.
post #46 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanF View Post

I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.

The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
.

Every one can get the free itouch and discount
EVERYONE .
no proof asked for at all .
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whats in a name ? 
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post #47 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

The fact that Apple products mostly appeal to lonely friendless elitists who don't socialise much is also a massive point against the Apple ecosystem that should be exploited

That's of course especially difficult to exploit effectively, existing as it does only in your head.
post #48 of 153
That's what it's worth. it's half the device/platform that iPod Touch is
post #49 of 153
oh my. so much wishful Zune thinking here.

this new Zune would have been good competition for the Touch - in 2007. before the App Store changed the entire PMP marketplace forever in 2008 - which the Zune won't be able to copy until 2010 (and only IF it is compatible with Win Mobile 7). it is always two years behind.

the thousands of apps/games the Touch can/will play make it game/set/match/over before the the day even begins. the Zune will always remain an MS' "hobby."

also in passing:

- what is the ratio of buyers who really want a camera for snapshots like the new Touch compared to really want HD radio? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1?

- exactly who besides geeks cares about whether the screen is OLED instead of LED more than they care about what is ON the screen?

- the only genuine killer feature still missing from the Touch is GPS/compass. maybe next year. that would have given the Zune some real competitive advantage. but it ain't got it either.
post #50 of 153
Let's see. They lose money on every XBox sold. Now they'll be losing money on every Zune sold. I wonder if they make anything on their mice or are those sold at a loss too?
post #51 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

ZUNE THE IPOD KILLER
i agree its all over for apple
the ZUNE and its LARGE accessory warehouses .
A brave new world of ZUNE SPEAK ..


i can now see the zune phones
zune computers
zune net books
zune kindles
zune garmens

gotta zune > see ya latrer

In order to have a title of an "iPod Killer" the device have to have all what iPod have and tons of other features. So far Zune doesn't even sync to Mac.
EPIC FAIL!
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #52 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post

I think it is too little too late for the Zune. While I would never wanted to be so naive as to say that there could never be another paradigm shift, I don't think it is going to come in the form of a Zune!

Agreed!
post #53 of 153
Microsoft must as a corporation be a masochist. They basically announce their product and pricing -- and Apple is about to revamp the iPod Touch. Apple will probably provide a 64GB Touch for the same price as this 32GB turd.
post #54 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

I like the idea of outputting 720p via a dock, especially as the MS 720p codec is pretty good (if it's the same as the Xbox Live codec).

I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.

Yeah, as a 1-off feature, it's useful, but who in their right mind would think that people would flock to a PORTABLE MP3 player based on it's video output when connected to an HDTV?
post #55 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Why no mention of the OLED screen? Isn't that kind of an important oversight? Anyway, the Ipod Touch will remain the leader regardless simply due to the App store. What would sweeten the pot though, would be the addition of Oled and a camera. Still good to have Microsoft doing their thing and doing it somewhat well with the new Zune.

The general public doesn't know what an OLED screen is, or an AMOLED, etc. All they know is what they see. Is the screen bright enough, is it sharp enough, is it big enough? How it gets there isn't important to anyone except us techies.

If the OLED screen helps MS lift the poor battery life problem they have with the Zune's, and they can advertise the longer life, then it will serve some purpose, but otherwise, no.

The new iPod Touch will supposedly have a camera and a microphone. Big upgrade over previous models.
post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.

Ah, you mean the fact that Apple barely makes any money on their music which they use to help sell ipods and iphones should be ignored?

Lets not forget all of the ipod touches that people get for free when buying almost any of the Macs being sold right now. This is two years in a row for this...I wouldn't be surprised if this is a yearly thing unless they start monopolizing the market.
post #57 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrandersoniii View Post

Microsoft must as a corporation be a masochist. They basically announce their product and pricing -- and Apple is about to revamp the iPod Touch. Apple will probably provide a 64GB Touch for the same price as this 32GB turd.

As with Apple from time to time, this was obviously a mistake, and never should have been revealed.

When MS first released the Zune, they were shocked by the low pricing, and had to scrabble to lower the Zune price to match it. It was a major, and well publicized fiasco at the time. They even had the higher pricing locked into their retailers price lists, and had to change it.

So now they wait until Apple announces new pricing before they follow suit. But these prices look reasonable.

It's not likely Apple will come lower, but will be a bit higher. $299 for the 32GB model. It won't matter. People aren't going to make a decision on $9.99.
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

the Tegra GPU in it is supposed to be very nice. Microsoft's one advantage is that the Zune HD is new and doesn't have the installed base of the iPod Touch. they can pay developers to make nice graphically intensive games that look much better than the current ipod games simply because everyone is still coding for 1st gen Apple hardware due to the installed base

Unless something has changed MS has no currently announced plans to have apps or games on the Zune HD.
post #59 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

MS just WANTS to hurt Apple, and is willing to break even or LOSE money to do so.

There's nothing personal going on here. MS just wants to make money as everyone else does.
post #60 of 153
Hey! Who said competition isn't good for bringing prices down. Way to go Microsoft! Yeah! And, you know what? This Zune even looks nice. I can imagine business people really liking this thing.
post #61 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techslacker View Post

There's nothing personal going on here. MS just wants to make money as everyone else does.

MS believes, as apparently does every other company in the position of selling to an entertainment an computer market, that this is an area of importance that will grow to immense proportions over the years, with a great deal of money to be made there.

MS being MS, they've tried to control it themselves. But MS being MS, they're finding that unless it involves Windows for computers, not mobile, and Office, they can't.

Once they move out of the area of their monopolies, they're no better than anyone else, and usually worse, despite their money.
post #62 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbobf View Post

Hey! Who said competition isn't good for bringing prices down. Way to go Microsoft! Yeah! And, you know what? This Zune even looks nice. I can imagine business people really liking this thing.

And why would business people "really like this thing"?
post #63 of 153
Again, once the new iPods arrive this thing'll be dead in the water. No apps, no phone functionality - yet another "me too" attempt by MS that's about 3 years too late.

This isn't even competition. It's just sad. You can't arrive with an "adequate competitor" to the iPod. Just like with the iPhone, it can't be on par or adequare. It has to be vastly superior from the get-go and offer an entirely new experience.

Ms can't design. MS can't market. MS can't do any meaningful R&D in the consumer sector.
post #64 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

That's of course especially difficult to exploit effectively, existing as it does only in your head.

Well put.

It seems the Zune HD may be a precursor to a true Windows Phone, with WinMob 7 of course. Zune is at least shaping up to be a more credible platform for a phone vs. the early generations. Cross platform integration (i.e. Mac OS, or Google Chrome har har) would be a nice gesture, though MSFT is so big they might not have the motivation just yet.
post #65 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabsgwu View Post

It seems the Zune HD may be a precursor to a true Windows Phone, with WinMob 7 of course. Zune is at least shaping up to be a more credible platform for a phone vs. the early generations. Cross platform integration (i.e. Mac OS, or Google Chrome har har) would be a nice gesture, though MSFT is so big they might not have the motivation just yet.

Microsoft: "Skating to where the pick was."
post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post

Is this really a fact, or just some bullshit you just dreamed up?

I think he was kidding.
post #67 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.

It's not that Apple can't afford it... Apple can run for almost an entire year giving away millions of products for free just by what they have in cash.

Apple doesn't sell or make products that can't hold their own without the need of being subsidized by some other product or division. If they're losing money or not making some kind of an impact, they're phased out.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #68 of 153
I've made this point in pretty much every ZuneHD thread, but I never seem to get a response, so let me try again:

Does anyone have any evidence to suggest the ZuneHD competes with the Touch as a small, handheld computer?

I constantly see people getting all excited about the Zune because it has a touch screen and animations between screens and, um, big fonts, but everything I've seen so far suggests the functionality of previous Zunes (which is to say pre-Touch iPods) with nicer transitions and better graphics. Which would make it the kick-ass Nano that Apple doesn't make, but little more.

Now it obviously has the processing heft to run a real OS and real apps, etc., but so far I've seen nothing to confirm that. I believe I've seen it said that the ZuneHD OS is a gussied up WinCE, so even if MS intends it to do the full on OS thing, is there any reason to believe that a WinCE based device makes a good OS X mobile competitor? Has anyone seen anything at all to suggest that MS has created a device with the kind of OS that makes the Touch such a great handheld?

Because it seems way more likely to me that the ZuneHD is yet another stopgap product from MS-- nicer hardware, to be sure, and decent screen animations, but beyond that what? A browser bolted on? A few apps or games included just to pretend to be competitive? How will such additions be accessed? From the same jumbo text list based UI that we've seen?

Finally, if MS has, in fact, done a massive reworking of WinCE to make it competitive with modern mobile operating systems, then where is WinMob 7? Wouldn't a true Touch competitor simply be WinMob 7 without the phone app and radio? Which is to say, if MS had a true Touch competitor ready to go then they would have WinMob 7 ready to go, and they don't so they don't.
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post #69 of 153
I think there is going to be some major hurt coming for Microsoft. to be honest, I think they became obsolete the day that businesses no longer needed to buy an expensive new machine to run the latest version of office. Now, you are seeing M$'s top end being eaten by apple, their bottom end is OEM licenses of their new operating system being sold with new pcs, and although anyone with Vista will be motivated to switch to 7- let's get real- 29$ for Snow Leopard with superior technolgoy is going to turn some press apple's way.

The fact is M$ cannot survive if the pc market slows down, ad new up graders of operating systems are just not the majority of pc users. Most people just use whatever feature-crippled version of vista home came with their pc.

And this idea that they are limiting the speed of 7 on low end netbooks- are you kidding me? They should be worried about marketshare, not worrying about trying to stop $300 netbooks from being made with their operating system on them.
post #70 of 153
WinCE. Run for your lives!!!
post #71 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I've made this point in pretty much every ZuneHD thread, but I never seem to get a response, so let me try again:

Does anyone have any evidence to suggest the ZuneHD competes with the Touch as a small, handheld computer?

I constantly see people getting all excited about the Zune because it has a touch screen and animations between screens and, um, big fonts, but everything I've seen so far suggests the functionality of previous Zunes (which is to say pre-Touch iPods) with nicer transitions and better graphics. Which would make it the kick-ass Nano that Apple doesn't make, but little more.

Now it obviously has the processing heft to run a real OS and real apps, etc., but so far I've seen nothing to confirm that. I believe I've seen it said that the ZuneHD OS is a gussied up WinCE, so even if MS intends it to do the full on OS thing, is there any reason to believe that a WinCE based device makes a good OS X mobile competitor? Has anyone seen anything at all to suggest that MS has created a device with the kind of OS that makes the Touch such a great handheld?

Because it seems way more likely to me that the ZuneHD is yet another stopgap product from MS-- nicer hardware, to be sure, and decent screen animations, but beyond that what? A browser bolted on? A few apps or games included just to pretend to be competitive? How will such additions be accessed? From the same jumbo text list based UI that we've seen?

Finally, if MS has, in fact, done a massive reworking of WinCE to make it competitive with modern mobile operating systems, then where is WinMob 7? Wouldn't a true Touch competitor simply be WinMob 7 without the phone app and radio? Which is to say, if MS had a true Touch competitor ready to go then they would have WinMob 7 ready to go, and they don't so they don't.

Whatever OS MS may have running the Zune doesn't seem to matter to the user. Unless the OS is needed for music/video player functions. It's difficult to believe that.

But, the longer MS waits to bring the OS to the user in a way that it's useful AS an OS, the less chance MS has for exploiting it.

According to MS's own figures the last quarter, they sold 43% less Zunes than the last years quarter. This is a major problem for them. They need much better sales than they have now just to get back where they were a year before.

How are they going to do that?

So far, none of the "features" they've go that supposedly go beyond what the iPod has, has helped. The "Social" is a failure. The tuner hasn't helped. The marketplace isn't selling much because of the low sales of the Zunes.

Where do they go from here?

If this years new model did expose the OS to the user the way the Touch does, then they could do something serious, but it doesn't seem to.

If they wait until next year, it will likely be too late.
post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Once they move out of the area of their monopolies, they're no better than anyone else, and usually worse, despite their money.

Well said. And even their OS monopoly (or near-monopoly) was not achieved by dint of their own skills and talents. It was gifted to them by IBM.
post #73 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Well said. And even their OS monopoly (or near-monopoly) was not achieved by dint of their own skills and talents. It was gifted to them by IBM.

Yeah, that's a whole complicated story, involving deception, threats, illegal behavior, Federal lawsuits etc.

Not a pretty history.
post #74 of 153
Amen to that - they suck at Marketing to the people - business fine, but people not so much
post #75 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

WinCE. Run for your lives!!!

Exactly. The only thing that can possibly be worse than Windows is a stripped out Windows.
post #76 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Exactly. The only thing that can possibly be worse than Windows is a stripped out Windows.

There's some misunderstanding here, and it's pretty prevalent. In some ways, MS's marketing does work.

Neither CE or Win Mobile are Windows.

Both are entirely different OS's that are deliberately designed to LOOK like Windows.

Whereas the iPhone OS is a stripped down version of OS X designed to run on ARM, MS's versions have little, if no code, in common with Windows.

These are much simpler OS's, which is why MS is having so many problems bringing them up to speed.

Apple strips out everything that isn't needed on their handheld platform, but leaves the rest in, and adds the new GUI, as well as a lot on API's designed specifically for the platform. Its a far richer OS to build upon.
post #77 of 153
Seriously, for that extra $100, you get access to the app store and Apple support. What do you get with a Microsoft product besides being shafted? And as many others have pointed out, the next iPod touches will either be cheaper, or much improved or both. This is just Microsoft pissing away more of their cash just because they can.

Also My teenage daughter has never seen another teenager with a Zune anything. iPods, Sandisks, some other nonames, but never a Zune. Who will actually want this?

If they actually came out with something that wasn't just a copy of what Apple has had for years, then it might generate interest. But this is not it.
post #78 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post

They also don't have to price in an OLED display. How can MS be making money from this thing at that price?

They are not. They lost > $6 Billion on the XBox before they made a dollar.

They will attempt to do the same with the new Zune.

This is classic Bill Gates thinking.

Unfortunately, such thinking actually working in this space has zero traction.
post #79 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dodel View Post

Seriously, for that extra $100, you get access to the app store and Apple support. What do you get with a Microsoft product besides being shafted? And as many others have pointed out, the next iPod touches will either be cheaper, or much improved or both. This is just Microsoft pissing away more of their cash just because they can.

Also My teenage daughter has never seen another teenager with a Zune anything. iPods, Sandisks, some other nonames, but never a Zune. Who will actually want this?

If they actually came out with something that wasn't just a copy of what Apple has had for years, then it might generate interest. But this is not it.

We don't know if it's going to be much cheaper. This is a new Zune product being matched up against last years Touch product. If Apple does what it's always done before, in just three weeks or so they will announce this years new line, which will double the memory at the same price point.

While we don't know this for a fact, we do know that MS doesn't really want to sell this at a big loss. Therefor, it's not likely that the price will be more than $10 less than Apple's. not much of an incentive.
post #80 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There's some misunderstanding here, and it's pretty prevalent. In some ways, MS's marketing does work.

Neither CE or Win Mobile are Windows.

Both are entirely different OS's that are deliberately designed to LOOK like Windows.

Whereas the iPhone OS is a stripped down version of OS X designed to run on ARM, MS's versions have little, if no code, in common with Windows.

These are much simpler OS's, which is why MS is having so many problems bringing them up to speed.

Apple strips out everything that isn't needed on their handheld platform, but leaves the rest in, and adds the new GUI, as well as a lot on API's designed specifically for the platform. Its a far richer OS to build upon.

Which brings up a point I've been making since the release of the original iPhone: Apple created a version of OS X that can run on mobile devices. Given the pace of hardware improvements, there's nothing but upside for Apple as their mobile offerings come to be able to handle more and more functionality. It's not like a phone is going to be able to outstrip what OS X can do any time soon, and moreover they can offer the user a smooth continuum from their tiniest palmtops right up to the workstation class pro machines.

Whereas the people dragging forward their legacy operating systems, designed back when to run on constrained hardware, are obliged to try and figure out how to bolt on new stuff to take advantage of new hardware and new competitors, and will be stuck with a built-in divide between such devices and more capable machines running desktop class software.

It's funny, too, because the folks on the tech sites are fixated on how the Tegra chipset is so badass it surely yield awesomeness, apparently unaware that all the silicon grunt in the world is useless without good software. You get the impression that they think "Tegra" magically makes software happen.
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