Test your HealthCare IQ!

Your ability to create a poll thread fails.

One usually has .. you know.. voting and options and stuff.

Unless, of course, someone thinking they have any kind of options is false, in which case I dub thee sir conservative!

Rise, go forth and vote Republican!

I choose "Cake"!

Please report any snarky remarks about this poll to flag@whitehouse.gov

As in "Let them eat cake"?

Beer.

Uh huh. Sheesh.

Wrong!

Intelligent people didn't bother to take your "IQ test" at all.

Not only that, you have exposed yourself as a complete retard and are hereby entered into the special olympics.

What an extremely rude and offensive thing to say. Although I suppose it does illustrate the attitude of Obama and his supporters towards the disabled. Anyone remember Obama's Special Olympics "joke" on Leno?

Oh wait, the teleprompter made him do it.

says the retard.

No, they are not all factually correct.

No, they are not all true. And I decline. You didn't provide proof, so why should I have to?

The burden of proof in logical arguments falls to the one making the positive assertion.

We have evidence that at least one of those is false:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EPd2i4Jshs

I am sure there were only corporate sponsored interruption and no other people with their own agendas or ideas involved. Right?

That's ridiculous, on what criteria do you base the assertion that the VA hospital provides the best care in the US?

My father receives care through the VA. It is NOT the best care. But it is good for what it is. For what he pays (nothing but his time in the military), it is good. The best in the country? Not really.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...s-politics-cnn


Sounds good so far...perhaps too good.
Deals being cut - politics as usual in Washington.
Yup, politics as usual.

The drug companies are behind the plan, so that pretty much knocks that item off the poll.

Interesting. Not surprising at all of course. Most industry takeovers tend to be secretly supported by the incumbents in those industries as a way to cement their position, lock in long term government protection, force customers to buy their products and services, etc. Nothing surprising here.

So let's examine that list (that no intelligent person would have check an item on):

1. The Veteran hospital (VA) is government-run and the best care in the USA

2. Canadians love their government-run healthcare system

3. Basic healthcare is a recognized right for citizens in most developed countries

4. The Obama proposed reform will not add to the overall deficit

5. The Obama proposed plan puts evidence-based medicine ahead of financial incentives for doctors

6. Many GOP and Blue Dog Dems have been bought by health insurance and big pharma

7. The inclusion of professional assistance for counseling terminally ill is humane and necesary

8. Disruption of town-hall meetings was orchestrated by health insurance companies and big pharma

9. Special interest (insurance and big pharma) spends $1.2 million + a DAY to defeat healthcare reform

10. The GOP is going everything in their power to block legislation and thwart 70% of the population


So far we have some suggestions that 1, 2, 6, 8 and 9 are not true or at least not completely true.

Additionally, 4 and 5 are predications of the future based on promises from politicians. I think we can say these are not facts that can be determined a priori to be true or false. They are guess and wishes at this point.

Number 3 might be true, but irrelevant to the debate.

Number 7 is an opinion so not really subject to an objective true/false claim.

Number 10 contains a premise that is questionable (that 70% of the population wants or supports the plans currently being proposed). It also contains the unspoken premise that all of the GOP is doing "everything in their power to block legislation". I don't know that anyone here has enough information to determine the truth or falseness of that claim.*

*I'm not defending anything the GOP does, I merely pointing out the fallacies in the claim.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they are ALL false.

1. The Veteran hospital (VA) is government-run and the best care in the USA: Talk to people that go there. Not only is it not the best, it may be the worst.

2. Canadians love their government-run healthcare system: You'd have to provide some evidence. Surely not ALL of them do or don't. I've heard many stories good and bad. And what works for Canada may not work here.

3. Basic healthcare is a recognized right for citizens in most developed countries: This one has many problems. First, what does "basic" mean? What does "recognized right" mean? Does it mean free? And does lack of insurance prevent one from getting basic care? Of course not. The fact is we should not be trying to solve the "healthcare" problem, we should be trying to solve the "insurance" problem. The "healthcare" system is not the issue. That's why people from all those "developed countries" come here for procedures.

4. The Obama proposed reform will not add to the overall deficit: Now that's just laughable. It's going to cost at least a trillion dollars. So, either it adds to it or he raises taxes in the extreme. Take your pick.

5. The Obama proposed plan puts evidence-based medicine ahead of financial incentives for doctors: This is dumb. Obama has insulted doctors ad nauseam during this process, claiming they'd rather cut off a foot than provide dietary advice to patients. I've seen no evidence of this, not to mention it would violate their hippocratic oaths.

6. Many GOP and Blue Dog Dems have been bought by health insurance and big pharma: That's a little convenient, no? Care to say which ones? Care to provide proof?

7. The inclusion of professional assistance for counseling terminally ill is humane and necesary: Read the proposal in the house. It's simply not that cut and dried. While the intention may not be to have the government denying granny a hip replacement, that's what's likely to happen under a bill that's stated purpose includes reducing cost.

8. Disruption of town-hall meetings was orchestrated by health insurance companies and big pharma: Prove it. Prove it, prove it, prove it.

9. Special interest (insurance and big pharma) spends $1.2 million + a DAY to defeat healthcare reform: I see no link, but it's probably true. But hey...I'm sure there is nothing on the other side, right?

10. The GOP is going everything in their power to block legislation and thwart 70% of the population: That's just dumb. Not only to most Americans hate the current proposal, but in general they only narrowly want a government option:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/102931/in...re-reform.aspx

Here's on specific to Obama's handling of the issue:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122255/Am...re-Steady.aspx


There are some polls that were taken months ago showing something like the number you quoted. But they've changed. Really, I don't see why you need to just make crap up.

Yes, it does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof

So you are claiming that Paul Krugman is a liar?



Priceless. Denounce a video event documenting at least a handful who dislike the system because it is "published by the right wing media website" and then point to a "progressive" (aka left-wing) website as "much better information". The irony and hypocrisy is priceless.

Does the article you linked to even provide evidence for your claim that all Canadians love their health care system?

What we really have here is a small percentage of people who want to ram their personal desires for control through into law without considering the failures that the government has brought to the health care and health insurance markets already and who do not fully understand or realize the consequences that will come from this (and inevitable subsequent) programs.



See, I don't care if doctors and insurance CEOs get rich. All I care is that I get the health care I need or want, have the choices I desire and prices I can afford. People getting rich in that process doesn't matter one bit to me. If they can do all of that and get rich, more power to them. If, however, they are getting rich due to government limitations on competition...that's a different story altogether.

And here's one review of that book:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3QY2U4...cm_cr_rdp_perm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1242781

Comparison of postoperative mortality in VA and private hospitals.

J F Stremple, D S Bross, C L Davis, and G O McDonald
Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


The VA itself says that there is comparable postoperative mortality rates.

Therefore, it's neither better nor worse, according to the VA itself, as of 1993.

This analysis was independently substantiated in 2003 (study of admissions in 1994 to 1995), with a caveat - the length of stay at a VA hospital was substantially longer, on average (12.7 vs 7.0 days).
http://www.springerlink.com/content/06l18n4j1n6xw102/

Every article I read has similar conclusions.

So, no, the VA isn't the best health care, it's equal to private health care.

OK, what other factors are there? Is there a better criteria for rating health care than mortality rates?

I posted supporting evidence, the ball's in your court. Support your assertions and we'll see just how your conclusions compare.

You make a lot of claims and don't provide a lot of evidence. Where I come from they have a name for that kind of behavior.

edit: your evidence for #8 ... isn't. It's just a pamphlet put out by folks against the health care proposals.