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Apple's Schiller to angry developer: "We hear you"

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Apple executive Phil Schiller has again responded to a developer's complaints about his company's App Store approvals, this time sending an e-mail to the co-founder of a prominent Mac development studio.

Steven Frank, of Panic, makers of Transmit, Coda and Unison, said on his blog that he received a personal e-mail from Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing after he publicly stated that he's boycotting his iPhone after the company rejected an e-book reader. Frank, who is not an iPhone developer, declined to re-print Schiller's note, but instead summarized his points.

"I haven’t sought Phil’s explicit permission to republish the letter," Frank wrote, "so I won’t do so here. But to summarize, he said: 'We’re listening to your feedback.' Not all of my suggested solutions were viable, he said, but they were taking it all in as they continue to evolve the App Store."

Schiller also denied a rumor that Apple is rejecting every ebook reader submitted to the App Store. Frank went on to describe Schiller's e-mail as polite and courteous, and said he was grateful that the Apple executive took the time to contact him.

"As I’ve said repeatedly, communication will solve this problem -- not silence," he wrote. "Let’s push that communication down from executives-to-bloggers to app-store-to-developers and I think we’ve really got a breakthrough."

In his original post declaring his boycott, Frank said he believes that Apple's approval and rejection of software from the App Store is sometimes illogical. He said when he first complained about Apple's policies, a lot of people responded by telling him not to develop for the iPhone -- so, he said, he hasn't. Frank's comments were on behalf of himself, and not Panic.

"I’ve reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can’t participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: It’s Apple’s ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I don’t like it, I can leave. So, I don’t like it, and I’m leaving."

In an addendum to his original post, Frank added that he is still unsure about his stance on the Apple and the iPhone.

"Upon further reflection, I think the true litmus test will be how Apple and AT&T formally respond to the FCC inquiry about Google Voice. That is due no later than the 21st, a week from Friday. That decision really cuts to the crux of the whole thing for me, and the great thing (for us users) is everyone has to come out and say something about what happened. No more speculation."

Last week, Schiller made an unprecedented move in responding to Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball about the handling of an iPhone dictionary application's approval.
post #2 of 57
Apple really needs to communicate clearly and effectively starting yesterday. If developers and consumers don't know where they stand with Apple, that is a major problem.

I also think that Apple is underestimating the backlash they are in line for if they keep this crap up. Even MS Windows users joke and poke fun of MS as if they can't get anything right. How much longer before Apple is known as something far worse because of their lack of clear communication which comes off as arrogant and controlling.

Phil may hear the developers, but I wonder if they are listening.

I also wouldn't expect to know anything after the 21st. Can't all parties involved file for a privacy provision? I am not very sure how that works. We could be in the dark for a while on all that.
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post #3 of 57
Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.

What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.

Add that to Apples long standing policy of remaining mute about problems until they have a solution in mind, and you get a lot of pissed of developers.

Schiller's involvement is a great sign that things will be improving.

I hope.
post #4 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMP View Post

Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.

What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.

Add that to Apples long standing policy of remaining mute about problems until they have a solution in mind, and you get a lot of pissed of developers.

Schiller's involvement is a great sign that things will be improving.

I hope.

+1. But we can't be too sure yet..
post #5 of 57
yawn, more moaning by iPhone developers..... no, wait they haven't produced anything for the iPhone.
post #6 of 57
Palm and Microsoft have such a good opening to steal developers and get the light to shine on their products, but they will probably screw it up. Apple has cost some devs a lot of money and that is when people start to get scared in developing future products

but apple is afraid to hire more people because it will reduce profit growth
post #7 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

yawn, more moaning by iPhone developers..... no, wait they haven't produced anything for the iPhone.

put down the kool aid, dude!
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooru View Post

put down the kool aid, dude!

Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.

There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.
post #9 of 57
meh..

I'm going back to playing Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution on my iPhone...

...what was that about scaring off developers?
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #10 of 57
Here's the reality, very well put:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz

Let's keep this all in perspective.
post #11 of 57
""The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I cant participate any more until it is fixed. "

Microsoft takes years, produce crap, and people just put up with it.
Apple takes months, produce world changing stuff, and people complain like Heck.

I think that these small minded people are so happy that Apple actually takes some time to try and make things better, that they forget reality.

Kill the goose that lays the golden egg so we can get one sooner....Quick... don't think.... just do.

Microsoft has taught us well......

Just a thought.
en
post #12 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Frank of Panic View Post

"Ive reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I cant participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: Its Apples ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I dont like it, I can leave. So, I dont like it, and Im leaving."

Ironically, I was about to publicly post the following for immediate release:
Quote:
"Ive reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this. The Panic ecosystem is toxic, and I cant participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: Its Panics ballgame, and Panic gets to make the rules, and if I dont like it, I can leave. So, I dont like it, and Im leaving."

Its one thing to take your ball and go home. Its another thing to try to churn up some sort of junior high school style public drama over it.

Who really cares what some guy who's never written an iPhone app and doesn't own an iPhone thinks?

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post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Here's the reality, very well put:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz

Let's keep this all in perspective.

While we're keep this all in perspective, let's remember that Michael Arrington (of TechCrunch) isn't exactly the world's most highly regarded blogger.

As the saying goes, "Ideas are not responsible for the people who hold them." However, people will still automatically put anything coming from Arrington or TechCrunch through their BS filter, and many will never get past that techcrunch.com URL.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

""The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can’t participate any more until it is fixed. "

Microsoft takes years, produce crap, and people just put up with it.
Apple takes months, produce world changing stuff, and people complain like Heck.

I think that these small minded people are so happy that Apple actually takes some time to try and make things better, that they forget reality.

Kill the goose that lays the golden egg so we can get one sooner....Quick... don't think.... just do.

Microsoft has taught us well......

Just a thought.
en

No, people don't just put up with it from Microsoft. Everyone is very vocal about Microsoft's fuckups, it's just that MS doesn't listen There's a difference between being a MS fanboy and a MS user. I know for more of the later of the two.

As far as this developer goes, I agree he's being a bit of a drama queen about it, but maybe he needs to be. He expressed his views (which is what the internet is good for) and it got attention. Apple COULD have ignored him, but they didn't, and that's a good thing.

Developers are what made the iphone great. "There's an app for that" commercials are impressive, ya know? This guy might have produced something that would have made it's way on those commercials. He does raise some good points, and when Apple can please THIS guy, they'll please MANY more just like him, and that will ultimately lead to a better experience for iphone users.

So there's no need to hate on this guy.
post #15 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Here's the reality, very well put:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz

Let's keep this all in perspective.

Too long, brain hurts, plz to summarize for us.
post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.

There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.

do they have pictures? a lot of the book apps are comic books or other specially made apps with pictures.
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

No, people don't just put up with it from Microsoft. Everyone is very vocal about Microsoft's fuckups, it's just that MS doesn't listen There's a difference between being a MS fanboy and a MS user. I know for more of the later of the two.

As far as this developer goes, I agree he's being a bit of a drama queen about it, but maybe he needs to be. He expressed his views (which is what the internet is good for) and it got attention. Apple COULD have ignored him, but they didn't, and that's a good thing.

Developers are what made the iphone great. "There's an app for that" commercials are impressive, ya know? This guy might have produced something that would have made it's way on those commercials. He does raise some good points, and when Apple can please THIS guy, they'll please MANY more just like him, and that will ultimately lead to a better experience for iphone users.

So there's no need to hate on this guy.

Right On!

My father develops programs for his company using MS Virtual Studio, and is constantly cussing out the computer, and calling up MS or sending them little tid bits as to how to improve their development software. Let alone the Office 2007 change and Vista made him almost go insane. The company he works for is slowly changing to Linux infastructure since the devs that work for them have been so fed up with MS. So trust me, people don't just deal with MS, they complain and show their discontent with their wallets.

And that's where Apple sweeps up in the consumer world. People are discontent, and go to Mac. Problem is, the Apple side IS too constricting. You are right about the fact that its the devs that made the iPhone great (remember a time when Apple said "no third party software") I hope that they get their act together and re-do their App Store approval process. If not they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. At least with MS, you can have some sort of working software out there. On the iPhone, you may not even have that chance.

So yes, we need more people complaining to Apple too to loosen their restrictions. Let their system loose for a bit in the wild and see where people take it. Open it all up so people can use the iPhone (and more so the iPod Touch!) for more than what we are limited to now. Same with the computers and their prospective OS. I think it will be more beneficial for everyone.

As for me, I stay away from Apple. They used to be good and I used to be a die hard fan, now their heads are too big and strings too tight (It took them how long to give us back the matte choice? Also, still no decent mid-tower made from desktop parts?) I might come back when they "Think Different" again, because right now I'm seeing the same tactics as others only to a worse degree.
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post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

While we're keep this all in perspective, let's remember that Michael Arrington (of TechCrunch) isn't exactly the world's most highly regarded blogger.

As the saying goes, "Ideas are not responsible for the people who hold them." However, people will still automatically put anything coming from Arrington or TechCrunch through their BS filter, and many will never get past that techcrunch.com URL.

It's not by Arrington. It's by MG Siegler. Siegler's name is right there, at the top pf the article, in bold. And what he says makes a world of sense.

I'll reproduce the conclusion, though it doesn't quite do justice to the bulk of the article, IMHO.

-------------------------------------

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz


Conclusion

While Calacanis certainly has some valid points, I would argue that some of his points simply reinforce what makes Apple, Apple. By controlling the ecosystem surrounding their products, Apple ensures a great user experience for the majority of users.

And that’s really the key point: The majority of users. We can bitch as much as we want about Apple’s shortcomings, but by and large the public couldn’t care less about any of it, nor do they even know about any of this stuff. Does my sister care that Apple rejected Google Voice? No, she’s never heard of Google Voice. As far as she knows, all is well in the Apple universe because she turns on her iPhone and boots up her Mac and they work, giving her an experience that she finds superior to competitors’ products.

The fact remains that as long as the company continues pumping out high-quality products that offer this great user experience, people will buy them. Calacanis believes that cheap and stable products from Microsoft and Google will undercut Apple, but that seems to be the same thing that people have been saying for years about Apple’s products. Macs are too expensive, iPods are too expensive, the iPhone is too expensive — people are still buying them. And they’re doing so at or near record levels, which is stunning in this economy.

He seems to be suggesting that the premium market will disappear. But again, if it hasn’t in this economic environment, I don’t see it happening. Cheap, stable and open sound great, and they are great, for some people. But others are fine with paying more for what they consider a superior experience, and they will continue to do so.

And while Calacanis may have spent $20,000 on Apple products over the years, everyone that is not Calacanis has spent billions upon billions more. Until those billions stop rolling in, Apple will generally stay on the same path. Despite some of the rhetoric, Apple is not a totalitarian state, it is very much a democracy. It’s just that in this democracy, people vote with their wallets.

None of that is to say that Apple shouldn’t fix any of its aforementioned problems. With regards to AT&T and its App Store policies, it certainly needs to. But it’s humorously short-sighted to think that they won’t.

But Calacanis goes farther, “Making great products does not absolve you from technology’s cardinal rule: Don’t be evil.” That would seem to suggest that he believes Apple is making some of these mistakes with malicious intent. Instead, I would argue that the mistakes stem from the pursuit of making great products. They control the ecosystem because people left to their own devices would make the products less great.

That’s something that will be hard for a lot of people to hear, let alone understand. But I do believe it’s at the core of what Calacanis thinks makes Apple “evil.”

And that’s why much of this isn’t a case against Apple, it’s a case for Apple. Many of the problems Calacanis talks about simply aren’t seen as problems by Apple, and more importantly, by the public at large. Until that changes, there is no real risk to Apple.

In fact, I would argue that the only real risk to Apple goes back to the simple point: Great products. If Apple stops making products that are great, it will start to decline. If someone else comes along with a better product, Apple will decline. It’s that simple.

5 years ago, it was my belief that Apple offered a better product that got me to ditch my PC. And I’ll switch again from Apple if something better comes along. This isn’t some elaborate conspiracy in which Steve Jobs is tricking millions of people into buying his stuff against their will. They’re buying his stuff because it’s good. End of story.
post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.

There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.

I agree.

Especially using a word like "toxic" for something he has no first hand knowledge of at all. Kudos to him for publishing what Schiller said to him, but he created the problem in the first place.

The whole situation is more of a social or psychological problem than it is anything real. It's a direct result of Apple's policy of not actually communicating with people but staying silent and doing a good job. That works for hardware design reveals but it's always been a bad way to manage people and social situations.

I've been watching this from the sidelines since the beginning and the facts are that Apple has actually *not* really denied any applications for anything other than valid, rational reasons that anyone would be onside with, if they were in Apple's shoes themselves. The "developers" are the ones directly responsible for creating this mess by publicising the rejections they are getting before the appeals process is even started, let alone over. By criticising an opponent publicly, before they have had a chance to respond privately, and knowing that this opponent will refuses to answer publicly in any case. To me that's a cowards fight, and nothing noble or nice at all.

It's always the same story. Some developer gets a ridiculous rejection and appeals it. Meanwhile he writes on his blog about how outrageous he feels about this and all his techie friends with their high profile techie blogs join in and create a sh*t-storm on the Internet before Apple has even responded to their email. Eventually the wheels turn and the "rejection" is overturned but *that* news never makes as big a splash as the weeks worth of coverage of the "outrageous rejection." It's usually a one-off mention on the equivalent of page three of the Internet.

In the cases where the rejection is not overturned, it's *always* the case (so far) that the story the developer was telling about the rejection was not entirely true in the first place.

These developers are intelligent, very technically adept individuals, as are most of those that blog about them. That doesn't leave out the possibility that they aren't also totally selfish tards with a penchant for self promotion and gross exaggeration as well. Smart and capable doesn't always equal decent and reasonable. Quite the opposite sometimes.
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMP View Post

Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.

What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.

I don't know about the ambiguous guidelines and oversight comments seeing as I'm not part of Apple's approval group and don't know how that game works. And I suspect you aren't likely a member either so the comments are more due to what has been published by, often ticked off, bloggers.

but you are spot on that a key part of the trouble is that Apple has multiple issues including the massive amount of submissions to deal with and that is going to create backlogs etc.

As for Frank's comments, given that he's not an iphone developer, he's got some serious nerve getting pissed off about this or that being rejected. Its his right to refuse to get into the game right now, but to get it in his head that he's the one with the brains etc to tell Apple what they should or shouldn't be doing, tactless Mr Frank, seriously tactless. Especially when I don't see him offering any real suggestions of help just a lot of "you aren't doing this right. you need to do this better" griping

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #21 of 57
Yeah, sure, the iPhone platform is just crumbling to pieces and is leading to the quick collapse of Apple. Within a week or two, all the retail stores will be shutting down and consumers and businesses will refuse to buy iPhones or Apple notebooks. And why is this going to happen? Because out of the 70,000 apps in the App Store, Apple recently rejected TWO. Google Voice and some eReader app. The whole iPhone platform is corrupt because Apple decides when an app can be approved in it's OWN store. Even though with a couple of weeks more work on the app by the developer, Apple may approve it. It's happened before. Google Voice will likely end up on the iPhone but I doubt if they'll be any retractions printed by the bloggers who said Apple is a heartless company to developers and users.

However, that's reason enough to cause Apple to sell itself and give the money back to the investors. With all the platforms available that allow developers and users to run any app on them that they please, I will expect to see everyone moving enmasse to these platforms in a few weeks. The whiners, the bitchers, the moaners and the generally discontented will all be kicking back and enjoying their freedom with another cellphone in their hands. And guess what. I'll be very happy to see them leave and let Apple do it's thing.

Goodbye, impatient fools and let the door hit you on your way out. If you can't give Apple a couple of years time to develop it's mobile platform or allowing some mistakes to be made, then I have no sympathy for you. We'll see which platform becomes the standard in a few years and which will disappear for good.
post #22 of 57
The environment is largely toxic BECAUSE Apple has failed to provide transparency when it comes to their process. As a result, people submit apps and cross their fingers in the hope that it will get approved.

Sure, one could say Microsoft or Google or whoever else is doling out crap or using similar or worth behavior but just because there are other bad apples in the bunch does not mean that it should serve as an excuse for Apple's own behavior. The company has built its following based on the concept that it was NOT like those other companies so now it needs to live up to its promise and that's where the disconnect happens.

Just for the fun of it, I started thinking about what would happen if Apple treated their own apps the same way they treat other developers'. Would Mail and Safari require an adult rating because they can access adult content? Going down that road, I put together 2 satirical entries looking at the entire deck. Yes, it's satire but considering the obscurity of their process, how close could it be to the truth? I know it hit a never in cupertino as I've seen repeat visits to those two entries from computers within Apple's own IP range.
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Right On!

My father develops programs for his company using MS Virtual Studio, and is constantly cussing out the computer,

lol, it's Visual Studio and I work with it also, but I don't find myself cussing it out. Ask him what sort of things he doesn't like about it, I'm curious (plus maybe it'll prepare me for when I find those things myself)

Every once in a while I'll accidentally open the help file, which is absurdly huge and takes about 15 minutes to open. There's no way to cancel either because it's so busy processing opening the damn thing.
post #24 of 57
Unless you are/have been an iPhone developer you really can't comment on this... I develop a free app for the iPhone. I have no complaints about how Apple supports developers with tools and providing a pretty good development SDK. I have no complaints about the the process that make sure that Apps come from known and approved sources.
But. the App approval process really does suck big time - mainly because you have no 'right of reply'. If you app is rejected, you get an e-mail from some mysterious person in Apple with his explanation of 'why'. If you disagree, there is no conversation with this person. E-mails go to a black hole , it appears. This is clearly a problem of lack of resources on Apples side as they must be overwhelmed with apps, but they need to try harder!
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

Palm and Microsoft have such a good opening to steal developers and get the light to shine on their products, but they will probably screw it up.

Palm, Microsoft, please steal these whiny developers from us. The Apple rejects will be a great base on which to build your business. You can corner the fart, porn, and general crap app market. The real developers who are actually making compelling apps that make the platform better aren't going anywhere.
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's not by Arrington. It's by MG Siegler. Siegler's name is right there, at the top pf the article, in bold. And what he says makes a world of sense.

I'll reproduce the conclusion, though it doesn't quite do justice to the bulk of the article, IMHO.

But Siegler chose to hitch his wagon to Arrington (via TechCrunch). So it never made it past my BS filter. It might be the most eloquent blog post in the history of Teh Intarwebz, but I'm still not going to TechCrunch, because that just gives Arrington more page views.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

""The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I cant participate any more until it is fixed. "

he's not participating in it now.

Quote:

Microsoft takes years, produce crap, and people just put up with it.
Apple takes months, produce world changing stuff, and people complain like Heck.

something folks don't seem to remember when they are griping. the App store is barely a year old. Apple having a mobile phone, two years old. neither type of creation is going to be perfect out of the box. Apple is doing the best they can to satisfy dozens of groups and agreements.



Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


And that's where Apple sweeps up in the consumer world. People are discontent, and go to Mac. Problem is, the Apple side IS too constricting.

Restrictions aren't always bad. Restricting apps to one installer means Apple can test that the installer won't crash and brick a device before they let it in the wild (remember we are talking about folks phones here). Restrictions on hardware means they can train their people to fix them without taking even one day sometimes.

Sometimes restrictions can actually be better because they force creative problem solving. I remember in my film training having to read Rebel without a Crew. Great book about how one filmmaker figured out how to do a lot with very little.

Quote:
(remember a time when Apple said "no third party software")

could that no have been because they wanted to make sure said software didn't kill the devices, hmmm. and they never said never. that is something folks don't seem to remember when they are shouting about how they forced the whole app store thing. they don't consider that perhaps the store was part of the plan all along.

Quote:
Let their system loose for a bit in the wild and see where people take it. Open it all up so people can use the iPhone (and more so the iPod Touch!) for more than what we are limited to now.

then they might as well drop all warranties. at least those beyond what the laws require. because that 'somewhat working' software and such is going to damage a lot of folks can cause a lot of headaches

Quote:
Same with the computers and their prospective OS.

1. they will cobble their genius bar program
2. they will have to drop a lot of the free repairs they do
3. there is a very good legal reason they don't allow 'clones'. too much market share puts them in the same boat as MS and they want to avoid that for as long as possible.

Quote:
As for me, I stay away from Apple.

or rather you don't. you don't use their product but you have no trouble going on Apple talk boards and griping about how horrid Apple is.

why don't you follow Frank's example and don't play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLNYC View Post

The environment is largely toxic BECAUSE Apple has failed to provide transparency when it comes to their process. As a result, people submit apps and cross their fingers in the hope that it will get approved.

I highly doubt it is that extreme. I suspect when you sign up you have to sign off on pages of legelese and conditions, which will tell you a great number of details about what will and will not be approved, the ratings system etc.

Quote:
Just for the fun of it, I started thinking about what would happen if Apple treated their own apps the same way they treat other developers'. Would Mail and Safari require an adult rating because they can access adult content?

why don't you answer your own question. go turn on parental controls on your phone and see if there is an option to restrict mail and safari, just like you can on your computer with a managed account. i'll bet my first born that there is at least safari

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #28 of 57
I keep reading about the Google Voice dilema. What I can't figure out is whether or not having a third party GV app would be worth anything to me, ultimately.

I got myself a Google Voice account. I have an iPhone. And I'm trying to think about how a GV app would work, from a practical standpoint. I mean, if I can't simply tap on a phone number in an SMS, email, etc. and dial via Google Voice instead of my cell phone account, what good is the service to me? If I search for a contact using Spotlight, and tap on that phone number, what happens? With a third party app, nothing. The number is dialed via the standard dialer, and uses my cell phone's account.

I love the idea of having my voicemail transcribed to me, and dozens of the other features of Google voice, too. But if I constantly have to use workarounds to do something as simple as dialing someone on my phone, I think I'll pass. It needs to be native to the system in order to be of much use.

I think this will be THE killer feature of all Android phones moving forward (native GV support). If you don't think Apple is aware of that and scared of the consequences, you're crazy.
post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple executive Phil Schiller has again responded to a developer's complaints about his company's App Store approvals, this time sending an e-mail to the co-founder of a prominent Mac development studio.

Steven Frank, of Panic, makers of Transmit, Coda and Unison, said on his blog that he received a personal e-mail from Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing after he publicly stated that he's boycotting his iPhone after the company rejected an e-book reader. Frank, who is not an iPhone developer, declined to re-print Schiller's note, but instead summarized his points.

"Ive reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I cant participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: Its Apples ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I dont like it, I can leave. So, I dont like it, and Im leaving."

Isn't this the guy that develops programs to allow you to build a Hackintosh? *

Perhaps I am jaundiced. But having attended an Apple iPhone development program and meeting literally hundreds of like developers, I haven't heard or met any that are any near as objectionable or upset about the process as what I hear or see from what appears to be non-developers and in many cases people that don't, intend to or can even own an iPhone.

* http://stevenf.com/pages/tc1100/
http://stevenf.com/pages/mini9/
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Here's the reality, very well put:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz

Let's keep this all in perspective.

Good read. Well worth perusing.

Thank you
post #31 of 57
Perhaps it's a by-product of the web and the ability to Tweet and Blog, but people today seem to get completely outraged about ridiculousness and trivia.

Be careful of what you wish for. If the FCC rules that exclusive tie-ins between carriers and phone manufacturers are illegal, there would be little reason for a carrier like AT&T to subsidize the iPhone. Anyone care to spend $600 or more for the phone instead of simply losing a few apps, like we do today? And what the idiots at the FCC probably don't even realize is that even if they ruled that exclusive relationships are illegal, users still would not be able to use the iPhone on Verizon because Verizon is CDMA based.

Apple does sometimes make operational and strategic errors. But look at what they provide. No one else has provided a comparable eco-system for delivering low-priced (or free) apps to consumers with a model that makes it very easy for small developers who get a very fair (70%) return with no expenses taken off of the top.

So they don't approve apps in 24 hours. Big freakin' deal. There's what - 50,000 aps now? Is that not enough? So sometimes they reject an app they should have approved. Who cares? So the AT&T deal restricts them in some ways. Welcome to conducting business as adults. Grow up. I bet half the people who are upset by these limitations are living in their parents' basements. No wonder they expect everything immediately and for free.

Although one can argue that they deserved it, we've killed the record business. It's declining at 20% a year and will be a tiny niche business within five years if things don't change. How many other types of businesses would we like to kill?
post #32 of 57
For all the crap this site heaps on Winmobile, palm, BB, and any non apple phone, I must say, at least Google Android, BB and MS dont restrict apps this way, and at the end of the day, people outside the valley buy phones for function, not glits or status. If pple keeps doing this and Google doesnt, Apple should be freaking out, given 1-2 more years of dev on android, I have a feeling that the inertia and brand name will be the ONLY leg up that Apple will have if they keep pissing on and pissing off devs.

People want what apple offers, but that is quickly changing in the eyes of customers too, not just devs. ATT only? NO MMS on a $300 phone? what the fuck is that? I dont care if the problems are ATTs or apples fault. The fact is that my $300 phone cant do what a $99 blackbe3rry can do, and that is simply inexcusable.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMP View Post

Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.

What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.

Add that to Apples long standing policy of remaining mute about problems until they have a solution in mind, and you get a lot of pissed of developers.

Schiller's involvement is a great sign that things will be improving.

I hope.

Great post.

What's interesting is that massive market share for an open platform runs contrary to Apple's model to an extent. The Mac has barely 5% market share globally, which suits Apple just fine. The iPod was a fixed platform with no real external development, so even though it was hugely successful, this was never an issue.

So here we have an apparently open platform, and Apple is stuck between have a MS approach of not caring who or what develops for your platform, and it's original model of tightly controlling the user experience.

It is a very real issue, but to an extent these growing pains are to be expected. Apple does have to be careful though. The iPhone is extremely powerful and later applications may have thousands of developer-days invested in them, along with $$$s, and no one wants to get that rejection after that.

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #34 of 57
Phil Schiller's comments that Apple is listening reminds me of a Homer Simpson response to his daughter Lisa's statement that Homer doesn't understand her: "Just because I don't care doesn't me I don't understand!".

But, as someone brought up to believe in the freedoms that we are supposed to value, the image and practice of overt censorship by Apple is a very real problem. I'm not one who has any interest in purchasing porn, but I do find it unacceptable to reject, say, a dictionary that may have words in it that some people find objectionable goes way over the line.

I also believe Apple's voluntary censorship of content opens them up to criminal/federal prosecution when they miss some material, such as those that violate copyright or patents laws.

Basically, Apple should only be evaluating software based on purely technical issues that could cause the iPhone's performance to fail and degrade, or misuses some API -- that is, an evaluation process that could be significantly supported by automated QA testing.
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Perhaps it's a by-product of the web and the ability to Tweet and Blog, but people today seem to get completely outraged about ridiculousness and trivia.

Be careful of what you wish for. If the FCC rules that exclusive tie-ins between carriers and phone manufacturers are illegal, there would be little reason for a carrier like AT&T to subsidize the iPhone. Anyone care to spend $600 or more for the phone instead of simply losing a few apps, like we do today? And what the idiots at the FCC probably don't even realize is that even if they ruled that exclusive relationships are illegal, users still would not be able to use the iPhone on Verizon because Verizon is CDMA based.

You do realize that you are paying back your subsidy WITH INTEREST, and a good portion of the subsidies on the "free" phones for those who pay like $30/Mo for a basic plan...

How about this for a plan:
device
iPhone: $500

service:
450 anytime, unlimited nites and weekends, is now $39 could be cut to say $35
Data plan could be chopped to $15
txt rates could be reduced too, imagine an unlimited txt plan being $5 and not $20

So my $90 phone bill could be like $60-70, which over the 24-36 month usable time of a cell phone, that is a real savings.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #36 of 57
For all this talk about Google Voice, you guys need to wake up to reality. AT&T pays a minimum of $400 for for each iPhone so you cry-babies can get it at a low price. And that means AT&T needs to recoup that money and some profit.

So when you allow Apps like Google Voice on iPhone, AT&T loses on its investment. Apple should just ban all these menace totally including Skype. If you are an investor in AT&T, you don't want it to support millions of iPhone users for the fun of it.

Here is the solution, buy your iPhone at full retail price of $599 or $699, and put whatever you want on it. For now AT&T has paid and is still paying for over 70% of the initial cost, therefore they should not allow any free calling applications on the iPhone. Period!

FCC will not rule against Apple on that issue. Wake up to reality. Nothing is free!
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Isn't this the guy that develops programs to allow you to build a Hackintosh? *

No, he does not develop programs that allow you to build a Hackitosh. The posts you linked to are him sharing his thoughts and experiences with using programs others have written to build a Hackintosh. BIG difference.
post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

why don't you answer your own question. go turn on parental controls on your phone and see if there is an option to restrict mail and safari, just like you can on your computer with a managed account. i'll bet my first born that there is at least safari

General > Restrictions > On

safari: Allow On
Allow Apps Rated: 4+

hit porn site (in this case) -> works
search for porn related term -> works

Question answered: Apple does not restrict Safari content
post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

Here is the solution, buy your iPhone at full retail price of $599 or $699, and put whatever you want on it. For now AT&T has paid and is still paying for over 70% of the initial cost, therefore they should not allow any free calling applications on the iPhone. Period!

OK. Can you please point me to the place where I can buy an unsubsidized unlocked iPhone that Apple will support? I'm even willing to pay extra for AppleCare if they're willing to do this.
post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Palm, Microsoft, please steal these whiny developers from us. The Apple rejects will be a great base on which to build your business. You can corner the fart, porn, and general crap app market. The real developers who are actually making compelling apps that make the platform better aren't going anywhere.

Yeah, they may not go anywhere, but so will their apps.

You say they can corner the fart, porn and general crap app market, huh? Well do a quick search for fart apps in the app store, and you'll be amazed how many hits you get. Better yet, look at your iphone and tell me how many apps you have and how many of them you use and consider great apps.

Google voice, Spotify (likely to be rejected), SlingMedia (wifi only), skype (wifi only)... should I go on? All of these apps are available on other phones, on AT&T network nonetheless.

You're free to keep your blinders on and defend Apple for whatever they do, and blame developers, but if Apple doesn't rectify this soon, the backlash will not be pretty.
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