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Judge orders Microsoft to stop selling Word - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Maybe it is just me, but why would somebody tell you what the announcement at an event will be when the event's purpose is to make that disclosure? Doing so would seemingly negate the need for the event, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft's Mac software development house responsible for Office for Mac (which includes Word), had previously scheduled a conference call with members of the press for Thursday afternoon. Prior to scheduling the event, Mac BU did not reveal what the announcement would be.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

We should just give Texas back to Mexico. Too much baggage from that state.

On behalf of the Great State of Texas, We Drink Your Milkshake!
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post #43 of 65
This is a pretty damaging decision for Microsoft, even though the amount of money being discussed is not that large. Word is so prevalent in businesses, it's mind-boggling that this could happen. What ya gonna do, Ballmer?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

What ya gonna do, Ballmer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHN...eature=related
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #45 of 65
No one should feel good about this turn of events. How long will it be before the same idiot judge pulls iPhones from store shelves. Lord knows there are people trying to do just that everyday. It is never good news when companies win in court what they could not win in the marketplace. Just remember, Apple is an even bigger target than MS right now.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #46 of 65
YES!!!!

I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.

If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.
post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

YES!!!!

I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.

If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.

Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.

Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.

Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.

+1

It's good to have MS around.
post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Anyone who would portray groklaw as a "biased freetard" has no credibility at all and isn't worth listening to.

Please. Anything MS is evil over there. They didn't like Sun because CDDL wasn't GPL. Novell was tainted by doing any licensing with MS and of course Mono and Moonlight are not to be trusted because they are tainted MS technologies. They even dislike BSD because, well, MS could steal anything under a permissive license.

Anyone that disagrees with anything the FSF says or thinks is automatically labeled a paid MS astroturfer.

Tell me there's any level of evenhandedness over there.

Quote:
Sane people can disagree, but this kind of moniker is on the same level as calling Obama a "socialist." It paints you as an exaggerator at best, and more likely someone with a very big bias of their own.

Or someone who reads FSJ or LHB...with a dislike of freetard zealotry.
post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

We should just give Texas back to Mexico. Too much baggage from that state.

Hey, I'm from Texas and you really don't want to give that much power to Mexico...

In other news, I have to admit that lots of frivolous patent lawsuits are filed here in East Texas.
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

This won't 'kill' anything. This is about money, not killing a given format/approach. MS makes tons of money from using this patent. If it continues to go against them they will be forced to license the patent for $$$.

The body controlling ODF would also then have to consider a license. The $$ for that license need not be (nor would likely be) the same cost as MS as the controlling body doesn't make (much) money from the invention. This would be up to i4i. They could decide to release it under GPLx or other license as well. Lots of choices which don't kill anything.

Yah, because nobody pays off a patent troll so they can beat competitors over the head with a stick. Wanna bet that these guys go after Sun/Oracle and OO?

It doesn't seem likely that these folks are going to give away what it got paid $200M+ by MS for and the whole point is that someone like OASIS can't pony up that kind of money and unlikely that Oracle cares THAT much about OO.
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

No one should feel good about this turn of events. How long will it be before the same idiot judge pulls iPhones from store shelves. Lord knows there are people trying to do just that everyday. It is never good news when companies win in court what they could not win in the marketplace. Just remember, Apple is an even bigger target than MS right now.

Well, maybe an idiot judge from another jurisdiction, but you really need to take a closer look at why the patent suits are filed in the East Texas District... mainly the faster time to trial, streamlined court rules, conservative jury base, and experienced judges. Most of the judges are willing and able to put in the research needed and call in the experts when required to understand the cases.

Quote:
Editor: Does the Eastern District have access to the expertise required to cope with the complex technical issues involved in much of today's patent litigation?

Perez: Yes. The judges are sensitive to the need to understand the complex technologies involved in an increasing number of cases. They know their stuff. For example, Judge Davis has a master's degree in computer science. In addition, if the court gets into an advanced area of technology, it will use technical advisors, i.e., individuals who are skilled in the relevant area from a technology standpoint. For example, if the case involves routers for telecommunications, the court will retain an electrical engineer who is experienced in that area. She will come in and get involved in the Markman hearing process. There will be a dialogue with the advisor and judge so that the judge can understand the technology.

In addition, Eastern District judges will ask for a technical tutorial. It is the obligation of counsel to be able to explain the technology so that it can be understood by the court.

Quoted from this slightly dated but very informative interview with lawyers practicing in this circuit.

And here is another interesting look at the Eastern Texas District.


Yea, I'm from Texas
post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by scamander24 View Post

A lot could be affected by this.....after all, a LOT of people use Microsoft Office.

Time for Apple to move in and fill the gap with iWork PRO!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #54 of 65
Quote:
Judge orders Microsoft to stop selling Word


Now if we can get a judge to order Microsoft to stop selling Windows...
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #55 of 65
I know its easy to hate on Microsoft and boast about how they deserved this, but the fact of the matter is this is another stupid lawsuit. I hate to actually side with Micro$oft on this one, but I do. How in the hell can you patent something like XML?!
post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Obviously the Mac version is included in the ruling due to having the functionality at issue. I wouldn't worry about it going off the market anytime soon. The ruling does not apply to resellers and resellers are very well stocked.

There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

I know its easy to hate on Microsoft and boast about how they deserved this, but the fact of the matter is this is another stupid lawsuit. I hate to actually side with Micro$oft on this one, but I do. How in the hell can you patent something like XML?!

I don't know the details or the nuances in those details with regard to this i4i patent. I have a strong suspicion that the court that heard the case does.

Maybe we should give the people who tried and heard this case some credit. It's likely they understood very clearly the implication of the verdict and had a good (at least to them) reason for that verdict.

Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps many patent cases are filed in this particular district because they have a strong track record of doing a good job with those cases? Parties to lawsuits don't want to have verdicts overturned.
post #58 of 65
Microsoft Stores might just have one thing less to present to customers... I think they should revise their shelving for the Microsoft branded stores they are planning...

Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...

This whole patent thing is going way beyond reasonable in my opinon. The patent system should be reviewed. According patents to companies which actually don't produce a product based on the patent should make the patent decay after, let's say, 5 or 10 years. Just an idea... But this would avoid many crazy disputes which, in the end, are a cost for the comminity.

Just my two cents
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver99 View Post

It's kind of funny when you hear the name i4i. It reminds me of an 'eye for and eye'

that is its exact meaning
good catch
whats in a name ? 
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whats in a name ? 
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post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMat View Post

Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...

Absolutely. Pages could potentially be infringing on the same patent -- unless Apple has already licensed the technology but just hasn't seen the need to publicize the fact. The open source alternative OpenOffice.org could also very easily be infringing. They both use XML in their file formats in similar (but not identical) ways to Microsoft's DOCX.

In that case... Long live WordPerfect! Its underlying file format has been maintained to this day to be fundamentally compatible with what it was in version 6.0, released in 1993, therefore prior art that cannot possibly be affected by a patent that was filed after that date.
post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?

I've been a Mac user for over 15 years but perhaps excluding the OS 7.5 - 8 days have always had some M$ product.

MS mice are so much better than Apple's efforts and actually even though iWork is Office compatible for someone like my wife who couldn't care less about the differences it's far far easier for her interoperability to just be able to use Office itself. I have to say that as someone who uses Windows/Office all day at work it's easier for me too and as Office 08 was £8.95 for me under MS's Home User Programme it's far cheaper than iWork too.


Back to the point...

I trust this case gets thrown out. I can't image i4i would have ever even have made 1% of the money M$ will make taking Office forward on this based-on open source file format.

I can't believe the sale of Word has been stopped- surely all parties lose out from this?!
post #62 of 65
And enlighten us since you obviously read all the legal documents on how the suit is frivolous? To my knowledge, Apple has only lost one patent suit in the last ten years. That was to Creative. It cost Apple 100 Million. Of course, it has settled a few. Microsoft has lost a few such suits.

I for one think the Patent system stinks. Based on Microsoft's history, I, however, think Microsoft really violated the patent. Then again, I haven't read the documents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

This is just a frivolous lawsuit. Apple gets hit with patent suits all the time.

BTW, Greed DOES pay actually, and handsomely. I too would like to believe it doesn't, and that we live in a fair world, but that's not the case.
post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

And enlighten us since you obviously read all the legal documents on how the suit is frivolous? To my knowledge, Apple has only lost one patent suit in the last ten years. That was to Creative. It cost Apple 100 Million. Of course, it has settled a few. Microsoft has lost a few such suits.

I for one think the Patent system stinks. Based on Microsoft's history, I, however, think Microsoft really violated the patent. Then again, I haven't read the documents.

It's frivolous because I said it is, duh. Just kidding just kidding!

The lawsuit is attacking Microsoft for how they read XML in files. XML is text, plain and simple. I could write a program in about 3 minutes to read the values of each element and group them in a listview based on the tags. It's simple parsing of text.

For all we know, the code could be exactly the same as i4i's, but if I'm understanding this correctly, it sounds to me like i4i should be bringing a lawsuit against more companies than just Microsoft.
post #64 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMat View Post

According patents to companies which actually don't produce a product based on the patent should make the patent decay after, let's say, 5 or 10 years. Just an idea... But this would avoid many crazy disputes which, in the end, are a cost for the comminity.

Well, yes, but the problem with this approach is that companies would just stop licensing patents (and not just in software), wait for them to run out, then use the technology for free. It's entirely possible to have a really good idea of a great way to do something, but not have the resources to implement it. So, instead of actually implementing it yourself, you license the patent to people who do have the resources. But, who's going to license technology if the patent will just run out in a few years if left "dormant".

On the other hand, and without reference to this patent and case, there do seem to be a lot of vague, obvious, and otherwise poorly justified patents issued. The whole thing about patenting genes for example. Fine, let a company patent a process for conducting a genetic test or isolating a gene, but patenting a gene, which occurs in nature, is, in my opinion, an egregious abuse of the system. Something is clearly wrong at the PTO when things like this are granted patents.

So, yes, there obviously needs to be reform, but it's not at all a simple thing to do, and there's no easy fix for the system.
post #65 of 65
Since I last posted on this matter, I have learned that MS actually knew about the patent and abused it anyway. Therefore, I take back what I said. MS deserves everything they get. Screw em'.
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