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Sources detail changes to Snow Leopard installation process - Page 2

post #41 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

how much $$$ from 10.4 to SN

Far as I can tell...

It would be $169 to go from Mac OS 10.4 to Mac OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Reason why its $169 is, Apple appears to be making you purchase not only OS X, but also iLife '09 and iWork '09. Some may complain, but actually thats a hell of a deal. To buy everything separate it would cost nearly $290.

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post #42 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:26pm
And still no word on an offical release date or UK pricing.

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post #43 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:31pm
It's Apple that should be charging $299 for this easy upgrade to 64-bits and Microsoft that should be charging $29 for theirs.
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post #44 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post

And still no word on an offical release date or UK pricing.

The release date for everywhere is still kind of vague. If SL really is GM status, an announcement will be made very soon so people can start pre-ordering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

It's Apple that should be charging $299 for this easy upgrade to 64-bits and Microsoft that should be charging $29 for theirs.

If you really want to pay that much I can buy it for $169 and sell it to you for $299.

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post #45 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

But if one of the components that needs to be fixed gets updated by the 10.6.1 update, don't u still have the broken component? Or in that case would you just need to reapply the update?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

My thoughts exactly. Often to fix problems we want to revert to an earlier version.

i don't know about you guys but when I have a problem that requires an OS reinstall it's a clean install for me. which means a blank drive. so it's not a worry for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

So is Quicktime X going to be Snow Leopard exclusive? And if so, do they intend to continue developing Quicktime 7 in parallel for Tiger, Leopard, and Windows?

they will likely not continue to develop QT 7 just as they froze Tiger at 10.4.11 and are apparently freezing Leopard at 10.5.8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

I hope that ability can be toggled off during installation, that's horrible for editors. I'm finishing up a job in FCP6 soon and I was thinking of giving fcp7 a try, imagine when I found a problem and wanted to go back to FCP6 my fcp6 disks were automatically giving me fcp7?

it is my understanding that they are only talking about the OS. not about 3rd party apps

Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil View Post

I just want to know if I have to have Leopard installed in order to install Snow Leopard. I tend to like to zero my drive and start from scratch with a new OS. While I own a copy of Leopard, it would be a colossal pain to have to zero, install Leopard, and then upgrade to Snow Leopard...

it sounds like you would have to have Leopard installed. but really is it that much of a pain. particularly if it doesnt matter what version of Leopard you have. you boot from that disk. install. do your setup and migration from the backup you made. then upgrade to snow leopard.

or if you just really one to do it in two steps, spring for the 'tiger' pack which is likely leopard+snowleopard in one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

$169 for current Tiger/Panther users, but that also includes the latest iLife and iWork. That is the only way its coming for those so you can save money by buying a cheap copy Leopard and the $29 version of Snow Leopard, assuming you dont want the latest versions of iLife and iWork.

ilife and iwork 09 didn't work unless you had leopard and are actually major improvements in many cases. and when you break it down you are paying $129 for Leopard, $29 for the Snow Leopard upgrade and then what $11 for ilife and iwork. seems like a smashing good deal to me
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post #46 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

The release date for everywhere is still kind of vague. If SL really is GM status, an announcement will be made very soon so people can start pre-ordering.

The release date part was general (It'll be a global release date). I was just saying we don't know either that or the pricing for places like the UK.

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post #47 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

Pre-Order on Amazon.com already! I can't wait either!

Hmmmm... yesterday Amazon.ca mentioned it'll be available September 23rd, today they updated it to say "We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock"
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post #48 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

My thoughts exactly. Often to fix problems we want to revert to an earlier version.

My guess is that Apple would say you can always restore from a Time Machine backup. I know this isn't the answer some people are looking for, but I have a feeling that would be Apple's response.

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post #49 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

This is why it would take the time, solving problems like this!

From my interpretation:

[1] Install 10.6
... sometime in the not too distant future ...
[2] Install 10.6.1 via software update
... sometime later in the not too distant future ...
[3] Reinstall 10.6 system automatically figures out which components to alter/ammend/overwrite to get back to step 2.

But what if:
[3] Install 10.6.2
[4] Install 10.6.3 ... and oh crap, it's broken one of my applications, I want to go back to 10.6.2

Do I:
a) Install 10.6 which will automatically leave me at 10.6.3 according to the article
b) Install 10.6 followed by the 10.6.2 combo updater (assuming it's still available)
c) Just install the 10.6.2 combo updater, skipping the 10.6 installer

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's really no different from before. This is just for convenience when you're doing the upgrade.

As before, when doing a re-install, you just install the combo update afterwards.

But will the combo updaters act just like the 10.6 installer and automatically leave me at the more recent version (will the 10.6.2 updater put me at 10.6.2 or 10.6.3)? Even if they don't, the 10.6.2 combo updater will have no knowledge of any new files (completely new, not just updates of previous versions of files). So even if the 10.6.2 updater leaves you at 10.6.2, you might have orphaned 10.6.3 files which might cause problem.

Ok, ok, I'm sure Apple has thought this through and have considered the possible scenarios. We are all just curious how they are implementing this feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

I hope that ability can be toggled off during installation, that's horrible for editors. I'm finishing up a job in FCP6 soon and I was thinking of giving fcp7 a try, imagine when I found a problem and wanted to go back to FCP6 my fcp6 disks were automatically giving me fcp7?

We are only talking about OS installs, not application installs. There is no evidence to suggest Apple is doing the same thing for app installers.
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post #50 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

If you really want to pay that much I can buy it for $169 and sell it to you for $299.

Or I could make a donation to Micro$oft. They need it, they so hosey.
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post #51 of 114
8/12/09 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

These are some nice tweaks. I’m still waiting for QT7 to be an option. There are just too many things that I miss about it that QTX doesn’t do. I still surprised that QTX is considered complete at this point.

I suggest you carefully reread the article. Take your time now.

Quote:
Although Rosetta and Quicktime 7 are both included on the Mac OS X 10.6 installation DVD, both are designated as optional installs by default. However, if Mac OS X 10.6 is being installed on a Mac that contains a registration a key for Quicktime 7 Pro, the installer will install Quicktime 7 automatically.
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post #52 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I suggest you carefully reread the article. Take your time now.

What part of my comment confused you? The part where I don’t feel that QTX is complete enough for many people used to QT7 or the part where I clearly stated that my Snow Leopard betas don’t currently contain the optional install for QuickTime 7.
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post #53 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I think it makes most sense to update the GUI when they finally turn on Resolution Independence by default.

I think that 10.7 will remove all the parts of Carbon that make RI tricky (QuickDraw) (or perhaps completely remove Carbon) and have an updated GUI. Expect it to be previewed at the next WWDC and released 18 to 24 months later.

Hopefully, with so much of the old plumbing thrown out and new pipes having been put in, a new sink will be easier to install so that we might not have to wait as long for the water to start running.

(Sorry for the odd metaphor, but I just got out of the bathroom.)
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post #54 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Hopefully, with so much of the old plumbing thrown out and new pipes having been put in, a new sink will be easier to install so that we might not have to wait as long for the water to start running.

(Sorry for the odd metaphor, but I just got out of the bathroom.)

You did seem a little flushed.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #55 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You did seem a little flushed.

Heh!!!
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post #56 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:42pm
Seconds after I posted that witty retort, my work computer (a Dell Optiplex 755 running Windows XP) BSOD'd on me! I kid you not!

Must be an omen that my decision to go Mac at home is indeed the right one.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #57 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Seconds after I posted that witty retort, my work computer (a Dell Optiplex 755 running Windows XP) BSOD'd on me! I kid you not!

Must be an omen that my decision to go Mac at home is indeed the right one.

Soaking your equipment in the bath always results in that.
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post #58 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:45pm
I take it when Quicktime 7 Pro is installed, it's installed in addition to Quicktime X, not instead of it, correct?
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post #59 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

why do we have to go through the same thing at every OS rls. it's called Gold Master. Gold, GOLD! Golden is the egg from the fairy tale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsdevries View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_master

Although, amusingly, the reference at the bottom of the page is labeled "Mac OS X 'Gold Master' Released To Manufacturing' - Apple, Inc. 2001-03-07." So much for Wikipedia as the ultimate authority. Actually, I suspect this article has the title it does to disambiguate it from the the "Gold Master" article listed under See Also.
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post #60 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Soaking your equipment in the bath always results in that.

You did mean computer equipment, right?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #61 of 114
8/12/09 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You did mean computer equipment, right?

Oh, how I am not going to get into that one!
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post #62 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Oh, how I am not going to get into that one!

Use protection if you do.
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post #63 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil View Post

I just want to know if I have to have Leopard installed in order to install Snow Leopard. I tend to like to zero my drive and start from scratch with a new OS. While I own a copy of Leopard, it would be a colossal pain to have to zero, install Leopard, and then upgrade to Snow Leopard...

I really am hoping that it does not require OSX 10.5 to be installed.
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post #64 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Good question. I'd also like to know if it's possible to write plugins for QTX. I'm sure a lot of people currently use Perian and the WMV components from Flip4Mac. Will it be possible for those components to be re-written to work with QTX?

That's up to the developers to write Cocoa interfaces for each.
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post #65 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

Use protection if you do.

I wouldn't touch it with a three foot plunger.
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post #66 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtolman View Post

I really am hoping that it does not require OSX 10.5 to be installed.

I believe that this is a direct upgrade from 10.5, hence the low price.
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post #67 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil View Post

I just want to know if I have to have Leopard installed in order to install Snow Leopard. I tend to like to zero my drive and start from scratch with a new OS. While I own a copy of Leopard, it would be a colossal pain to have to zero, install Leopard, and then upgrade to Snow Leopard...

Wow, what a COMPLETE waste of time. An Archive and Install gives you a new system folder, and now it appears to be automatic. Your apps don't need reinstallation with a new OS.
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post #68 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Good question. I'd also like to know if it's possible to write plugins for QTX. I'm sure a lot of people currently use Perian and the WMV components from Flip4Mac. Will it be possible for those components to be re-written to work with QTX?

Not yet possible, but will be in a future version.

Edited to add: plugins like Perian will still work in Quicktime X Player, it'll just run them through the Quicktime 7 engine.
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post #69 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I wouldn't touch it with a three foot plunger.

I'm sorry to hear you weren't endowed.
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post #70 of 114
8/12/09 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

I'm sorry to hear you weren't endowed.

Oh, I have enough money.
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post #71 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I believe that this is a direct upgrade from 10.5, hence the low price.

They could always just verify the media you have is authentic without requiring 10.5 be installed.
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post #72 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

They could always just verify the media you have is authentic without requiring 10.5 be installed.

If the idea is to build upon 10.5, not just as in the software itself, but in the upgrade path for people who did spend the $129, or bought the family edition, then I would think they would want 10.5 to be present in a way that would show it was coupled to the machine itself, and "legal". Otherwise, one person could just hand a 10.5 disk around for people to use as a "verification " disk. but it really wouldn't be, would it?

Its also to reward people who made the latest machine purchases that had Leopard on it.
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post #73 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

they will likely not continue to develop QT 7 just as they froze Tiger at 10.4.11 and are apparently freezing Leopard at 10.5.8

Well then are they releasing QuickTime X for Leopard and Windows? Otherwise, discontinuing QuickTime 7 and making QuickTime X Snow Leopard exclusive would basically mean QuickTime itself is dead. HTML5 video is all well and good for browsers, but Quicktime has a lot of uses as an integral part of third-party applications and games. Lack of non-Snow Leopard support would mean developers will quickly move on.

I'm curious on the Leopard to Snow Leopard upgrade discs as well. I don't really remember from my last Leopard install, but did it require you to register Leopard? I know it asked for some contact information to be stored in Address Book by default. If people did register then they could check, although that would require an internet connection. I have a feeling the Snow Leopard upgrade discs might just be full installs as has always been the case. Just that Apple won't market them as such. Or perhaps the Leopard leaves a flag in your EFI or other firmware?
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post #74 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If the idea is to build upon 10.5, not just as in the software itself, but in the upgrade path for people who did spend the $129, or bought the family edition, then I would think they would want 10.5 to be present in a way that would show it was coupled to the machine itself, and "legal". Otherwise, one person could just hand a 10.5 disk around for people to use as a "verification " disk. but it really wouldn't be, would it?

Its also to reward people who made the latest machine purchases that had Leopard on it.

You're assuming Apple will take the MS path. People are already on the 'honor' system. You can give your CD to anyone now and install it any number of times. I see no reason they would need to change that now.
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post #75 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You're assuming Apple will take the MS path. People are already on the 'honor' system. You can give your CD to anyone now and install it any number of times. I see no reason they would need to change that now.

The difference is that when you are asked to register your new machine, or software, you get support from Apple. If you don't do that, then your installation isn't supported. It's easy for the new upgrade to look for that registration, and back out of the upgrade if it doesn't find it.

Apple is lax because they know that installations are only on Apple machines, except now for a very small number of hackintoshes.

If companies such as Psystar, and too many individuals, insist in "cheating" Apple of its hardware sales, I would imagine that they will feel compelled to institute similar controls to those of MS.

This is how the improper actions of a few, negatively affect the rest of us.
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post #76 of 114
8/12/09 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The difference is that when you are asked to register your new machine, or software, you get support from Apple. If you don't do that, then your installation isn't supported. It's easy for the new upgrade to look for that registration, and back out of the upgrade if it doesn't find it.

Apple is lax because they know that installations are only on Apple machines, except now for a very small number of hackintoshes.

If companies such as Psystar, and too many individuals, insist in "cheating" Apple of its hardware sales, I would imagine that they will feel compelled to institute similar controls to those of MS.

This is how the improper actions of a few, negatively affect the rest of us.

Again, you are assuming that Mac users typically cheat Apple. I certainly don't. The cost is actually fair to my mind for these OS releases. Having come from the Windows side, they are downright cheap. Since the current honor system is adequate in Apple's eyes, I see no reason Apple couldn't just verify the user has an existing 10.5 CD. I think most people are actually honest for the most part. They haven't assumed their user base are criminals first and gone from there and I see no reason they would need to start down that path.
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post #77 of 114
8/12/09 at 7:21pm
Nice to see they even have tweaks for reinstall. Although i have only done it twice in the few years of being a Mac user. Compare to a Zillion times i did for M$ XP and Vista.

How long does the installation takes?
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post #78 of 114
8/12/09 at 7:28pm
http://macs.about.com/od/macoperatin...leapordpre.htm

Assuming this is accurate, it's good news. If you just like a clean install, or if you don't want to mess with anything and just pop in the new disk without worrying too much about the reinstall itself.
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post #79 of 114
8/12/09 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

Well then are they releasing QuickTime X for Leopard and Windows? Otherwise, discontinuing QuickTime 7 and making QuickTime X Snow Leopard exclusive would basically mean QuickTime itself is dead. HTML5 video is all well and good for browsers, but Quicktime has a lot of uses as an integral part of third-party applications and games. Lack of non-Snow Leopard support would mean developers will quickly move on.

I'm curious on the Leopard to Snow Leopard upgrade discs as well. I don't really remember from my last Leopard install, but did it require you to register Leopard? I know it asked for some contact information to be stored in Address Book by default. If people did register then they could check, although that would require an internet connection. I have a feeling the Snow Leopard upgrade discs might just be full installs as has always been the case. Just that Apple won't market them as such. Or perhaps the Leopard leaves a flag in your EFI or other firmware?

If you were actually a heavy QuickTime registered with Apple you wouldn't be addressing this concern, on this rumor site. You'd know for the past 12 months what was going on.
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post #80 of 114
8/12/09 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

http://macs.about.com/od/macoperatin...leapordpre.htm

Assuming this is accurate, it's good news. If you just like a clean install, or if you don't want to mess with anything and just pop in the new disk without worrying too much about the reinstall itself.

There was actually a workaround in the old 10.5 upgrade discs. My MacBook Pro came with on of the so called "drop in" discs that was supposed to be for upgrade from 10.4 only, not a full install. I used this trick when I wanted to do a fresh Leopard install on a larger hard drive I had installed myself. If what that links states is not true, it would be interesting to see if this still works.

Quote:
To perform a fresh / clean installation of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard to a totally blank/formatted hard drive using nothing but the upgrade DVD, do the following:

1. Boot from the Mac OS X Leopard Upgrade DVD (hold 'c' while booting).
2. Notice that the check for previous will fail (and "Continue" button is grayed out).
3. Choose the option of restoring from a Time Machine backup and go as far as you can (note: if you do actually have a Time Machine backup, pretend that you don't - making sure you've already removed any backup drives you may have plugged in).
4. Now go back to (almost) the initial screen.
5. Notice the "Continue" button is no longer grayed out.
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