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Two lawsuits take aim at Apple, AT&T over iPhone MMS - Page 3

post #81 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyness View Post

Email is great but most non smart phones dont handle email all that well. Additionally in order to send a quick photo to all you friends ho have smart phones, I would need to have their phone numbers and email information which isnt a big deal but MMS is standard way sending pictures when it comes to phones, so why wouldnt an advanced phone support this standard. And what i dont get is how can ATT say they are concerned about increased data traffic from MMS when every other non iphone can send picture messages.

But you can email to the phone number, and they can reply to your email via SMS or MMS. All of my contacts do this, from Verizon to Sprint. It's no big deal, I use email all the time to the phone number. I do pay for 200 SMS a month, just in case people screw it up and text me, but since I've had the phone so long I'm debating whether it's worth it or not anymore.
To give you an example, I email my wife's phone one of two ways:

9145551234@vtext.com or 9145551234@vzwpix.com

These are stored in my phone as mobile numbers, and when I start typing the contact into the email field, it pulls up the list, I pick which email to send to, and send. Not that tough, I have push through mobile me and everything works fine, despite AT&T.
She just replies, or enters an email address into her phone and sends it. This has been working since I had a Palm Treo 650. It worked on my Windows6 phone as well, although those phones sucked, even on Verizon (who I left for the iPhone.)

Email FTW!
post #82 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

But you can email to the phone number, and they can reply to your email via SMS or MMS.

Email FTW!

Well, I am a big fan of email, but, realistically, do most people really need email on their phones? Practically speaking, yes, you need an email address, but how often do people, outside of work, really write messages that require email. Excluding spam, most emails sent now are probably no longer than 160 characters. I suspect that Email is headed the way of letter writing, probably not to near extinction right away (not till something equivalent replaces it) but at least as something you do at work and only a few people do on their own time.

That being said, I love having email on a phone where it's actually useful.
post #83 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I am a big fan of email, but, realistically, do most people really need email on their phones? Practically speaking, yes, you need an email address, but how often do people, outside of work, really write messages that require email. Excluding spam, most emails sent now are probably no longer than 160 characters. I suspect that Email is headed the way of letter writing, probably not to near extinction right away (not till something equivalent replaces it) but at least as something you do at work and only a few people do on their own time.

That being said, I love having email on a phone where it's actually useful.

Huh?

But if they are the same thing as sms and mms, wouldnt those things die too? I just dont see the difference between mail and sms on the iphone, other than you can email for free. Once your contacts are set up its basically the same thing. On AT&T, though, you can send pics to other people's MMS phones.

I'm not sure I follow you on the email thing. It's one application, for many different capabilities. Long mail, short mail, pics, videos, attachments, and whatever else. MMS and SMS to me are already forgotten relics.
post #84 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

Huh?

But if they are the same thing as sms and mms, wouldnt those things die too? I just dont see the difference between mail and sms on the iphone, other than you can email for free. Once your contacts are set up its basically the same thing. On AT&T, though, you can send pics to other people's MMS phones.

I'm not sure I follow you on the email thing. It's one application, for many different capabilities. Long mail, short mail, pics, videos, attachments, and whatever else. MMS and SMS to me are already forgotten relics.

Well, they aren't the same, though, or at least not perceived as the same. A lot of people still don't have email capable phones (at least not practically capable), and despite the advance of "smartphones", that's a situation that's likely to continue for some time. Email is perceived as less immediate, thus the preference for SMS/BBM/IM. It's like the difference between the telephone and a letter back in the days when a phone was something hung on the kitchen wall (post the days when it was found in the living room only and treated as a holy relic).

You could say anything you wanted in a letter just as well or better than you could in a phone call, you could even send pictures and audio, but it was less immediate and less conversational. Email is now perceived as not immediate enough, not conversational enough. As Vertical pointed out, most of his friends:

Quote:
... use hotmail for thier email accounts and don't even bother setting up a "real" email account to use with thier iPhone, and the ones that have dont have push notifications for email so they never even notice when I send them something unless I text them right after I send it... So why not just use MMS in the first place.
post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, they aren't the same, though, or at least not perceived as the same. A lot of people still don't have email capable phones (at least not practically capable), and despite the advance of "smartphones", that's a situation that's likely to continue for some time. Email is perceived as less immediate, thus the preference for SMS/BBM/IM. It's like the difference between the telephone and a letter back in the days when a phone was something hung on the kitchen wall (post the days when it was found in the living room only and treated as a holy relic).

You could say anything you wanted in a letter just as well or better than you could in a phone call, you could even send pictures and audio, but it was less immediate and less conversational. Email is now perceived as not immediate enough, not conversational enough. As Vertical pointed out, most of his friends:

I don't think you interpreted what I wrote correctly. To a person with an SMS/MMS phone, they can send the message to an email, the exact same way the send it to a phone number. The only difference is what they write in the "To:" field. Unless their phone is so old they shouldn't be using it anyway, like an i1000 Motorola or something.
Also, the reason for mobileme and push is an economic one. It's $99 a year, and the 200SMS from AT&T is $5 a month. I assume if you don't use email at all on your phone you would need the $10 or $15 SMS plan. Then the push email makes much more sense to me, dollars-wise.

Push email is immediate, and the perception should be updated. You see with email, you can short text like SMS or send whatever you like. SMS, while fast (like push email), is very limited and to me completely useless. In the long run, I think push is the better choice, and the reason RIM had so much success.
post #86 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

I don't think you interpreted what I wrote correctly. To a person with an SMS/MMS phone, they can send the message to an email, the exact same way the send it to a phone number. The only difference is what they write in the "To:" field. Unless their phone is so old they shouldn't be using it anyway, like an i1000 Motorola or something.
Also, the reason for mobileme and push is an economic one. It's $99 a year, and the 200SMS from AT&T is $5 a month. I assume if you don't use email at all on your phone you would need the $10 or $15 SMS plan. Then the push email makes much more sense to me, dollars-wise.

Push email is immediate, and the perception should be updated. You see with email, you can short text like SMS or send whatever you like. SMS, while fast (like push email), is very limited and to me completely useless. In the long run, I think push is the better choice, and the reason RIM had so much success.

Well, I wasn't commenting on the rationality or economy of it, just what I see as the current trend. But, to continue my analogy, stamps were much cheaper than long distance phone calls, yet people still preferred calling over writing, so I'm not sure that the economics of it are a determining factor. I would also note that, for most of the people I know with Blackberrys, even though they get email pushed to their phones, they still spend a lot more time BBMing and SMSing than they do emailing from the phone.
post #87 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I wasn't commenting on the rationality or economy of it, just what I see as the current trend. But, to continue my analogy, stamps were much cheaper than long distance phone calls, yet people still preferred calling over writing, so I'm not sure that the economics of it are a determining factor. I would also note that, for most of the people I know with Blackberrys, even though they get email pushed to their phones, they still spend a lot more time BBMing and SMSing than they do emailing from the phone.

My comments were based on having an iPhone and having to exchange texts with someone on a phone with SMS/MMS only. They see no difference other than the address they are sending it to, and as an iPhone user it is free to use email, or cheaper to use than SMS if you get MobileMe and stop the SMS altogether.

I'll agree more people SMS or MMS, but that is because of the lack of email on the majority of phones. Where I can see what you are saying about the snail mail thing, I hardly think the analogy makes much sense given a letter takes 2-5 days to send after it is written, and a long distance call is immediate. The time difference between an email and SMS text is 15 minutes, or in an iPhone users case, zero milliseconds if you have push.
post #88 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscottmyers View Post

Wow, now you can sue for not delivering features fast enough. What a crazy world we live in.

Not Crazy But INSANE. We have got a whole lotta Brain dead you owe me's out there.
post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

My comments were based on having an iPhone and having to exchange texts with someone on a phone with SMS/MMS only. They see no difference other than the address they are sending it to, and as an iPhone user it is free to use email, or cheaper to use than SMS if you get MobileMe and stop the SMS altogether.

I'll agree more people SMS or MMS, but that is because of the lack of email on the majority of phones. Where I can see what you are saying about the snail mail thing, I hardly think the analogy makes much sense given a letter takes 2-5 days to send after it is written, and a long distance call is immediate. The time difference between an email and SMS text is 15 minutes, or in an iPhone users case, zero milliseconds if you have push.

I don't really disagree with your analysis. However:

1. See the comments by Vertical that I previously quoted.

2. What is "fast enough" is not a universal constant. (And, depending on how fast your email push is compared to how slow AT&T's SMS can be, the time difference might even be negative.) But,

a) most people don't make decisions on an entirely rational basis, and

b) once habits and perceptions become established, it's difficult to change them, even if the facts related to them change.

So, perhaps email will someday once again rule the world, but I don't think it does now and current trends and perceptions, in my opinion, favor alternatives.
post #90 of 97
I would be happy if I could get basic phone service from AT&T, never mind MMS. If you're not in a major metro area in southeast Michigan, good luck. At best I only get one or two bars around Fenton and Holly when trying to use the Internet or make a phone call. Come on Apple, lets let competent carriers provide service for the iPhone. You're lash-up with AT&T is just hurting you and your reputation.
post #91 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I don't really disagree with your analysis. However:

1. See the comments by Vertical that I previously quoted.

2. What is "fast enough" is not a universal constant. (And, depending on how fast your email push is compared to how slow AT&T's SMS can be, the time difference might even be negative.) But,

a) most people don't make decisions on an entirely rational basis, and

b) once habits and perceptions become established, it's difficult to change them, even if the facts related to them change.

So, perhaps email will someday once again rule the world, but I don't think it does now and current trends and perceptions, in my opinion, favor alternatives.

I totally agree with that

However....
It's just a matter of time that the majority of phones do email for free, in my opinion. As of now the trend is such that all phones are set up to do SMS/MMS, and I was hoping that Apple would change the trend with the iPhone. Even Verizon offers cheaper email now.

The thing is, all these US carriers get SMS fees both directions, sent and received, or you have to pay them more than a fair price to get unlimited. The trend is the trend here because people pay for it, and the carriers had no reason to change their cash cow, until the iPhone came out.
RIM's phones were, and I agree, set up for business emailers, and they needed the SMS side so people could use the phone for their personal contacts as well. Now that the consumer has the iPhone, or the competition's consumer line smart phone, I think email will once again rule the roost. Email has more overhead, and it will hurt the carriers, but they have to change to stay with the public perception.
post #92 of 97
This was a long time coming! Come one fanboys, how stupid is it that the freakin iPhone is the ONLY one in the industry right now that doesnt have MMS. ATT and Apple really dropped the ball on this one.
post #93 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

This was a long time coming! Come one fanboys, how stupid is it that the freakin iPhone is the ONLY one in the industry right now that doesnt have MMS. ATT and Apple really dropped the ball on this one.

In my city, I already have MMS and Tethering fully at my disposal. However, a 32GB 3GS here costs as much as a 17"MBP without contract!
post #94 of 97
I've got MMS and tethering on my iPhone but I don't have it on my Nokia 1100 which incidentally is the world's largest selling phone of all time with over 200 million units sold.

Looks like you really dropped the ball on your analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

This was a long time coming! Come one fanboys, how stupid is it that the freakin iPhone is the ONLY one in the industry right now that doesnt have MMS. ATT and Apple really dropped the ball on this one.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #95 of 97
Speaking as someone using an unlocked iPhone on US T-Mobile as my primary means of communication, I'm very happy that they have decent cheap packages for SMS that include MMS (which works on the iPhone with the manual settings I gave in a previous post). I like that I'm not forced to pay for a data plan (which isn't worth it as T-Mobile's 3G frequency is unsupported by iPhone). I just pay $10 extra for their wifi hotspots and I'm usually not far from from something. Walking a block or two in the city beats a frustratingly inconsistent cellular data network any day.
post #96 of 97
Thanks to EVERYONE who took time to educate me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical View Post

Here is the advantage... Not everyone lives in a big city with 3G and an expensive smart phone. In fact only my friends around my age even have iPhones and I had to nag the crap out of them to persuade them to get one after I did (Now they enjoy them) however most of my friends use hotmail for thier email accounts and don't even bother setting up a "real" email account to use with thier iPhone, and the ones that have dont have push notifications for email so they never even notice when I send them something unless I text them right after I send it... So why not just use MMS in the first place.

They will get MMS nearly immediately (I know AT&T sucks so it takes a while sometimes, but that goes for plain texts too) but then they can see the pic I sent, and the message with it, and reply directly, and with copy/paste they can take the image from there and do what they want with it. How are MORE OPTIONS for sending/recieving a bad idea? Not to mention as has been stated numerous times before MMS was on like EVERY phone BUT the iPhone, which means when AT&T finally supports it, you can use your "SMARTphone" to send pictures to the crappy phones who nobody bothers to add thier email accounts to even if they do already have an account.

I live in a rural area, though most places have cell service its all EDGE, and almost NOBODY uses email on thier phones, everyone I work with sends messages all day long via MMS though. It would be nice to participate. Just keep in mind, though you and the people around you may be perfectly content with email, the world does not revolve around you, and other areas may prefer, or even need MMS as an alternative. Sure if everyone purchased the $99 MobileMe account and set up email on thier iPhones, we really wouldn't need MMS, but until apple drops the $99 charge, thats not going to happen. (I am the only person I know in my area who is subscribed to MobileMe)

In short: Many people use crappy phones, but those phones already have the ability to view MMS messages, and though some also support email, nobody likes to set up extra stuff like that on a crappy phone, or much less set up extra stuff in the first place. Heck older people dont even know what IMAP or SMTP is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

Huh?

But if they are the same thing as sms and mms, wouldnt those things die too? I just dont see the difference between mail and sms on the iphone, other than you can email for free. Once your contacts are set up its basically the same thing. On AT&T, though, you can send pics to other people's MMS phones.

I'm not sure I follow you on the email thing. It's one application, for many different capabilities. Long mail, short mail, pics, videos, attachments, and whatever else. MMS and SMS to me are already forgotten relics.

Basically, SMS+MMS will be around for a while, till most folks are on smart phones, provided they can afford. But, even then, those who are used to SS/MMS will continue to use it, until that's discontinued, which won't be for a while, if ever... So, in short, SMS+MMS should be made available ASAP, and let folks choose! Hopefully ATT won't get too greed with the #$$!

It's not fun to hear people put down ATT... They better improve soon! BTW, a Verizon rep told me that 4G won't make a better coverage for voice, just faster data speeds! But then the guy didn't sound to knowledgeable... It's sad to see so much mystery about 4G... But, that's whole other top, that we'll be dealing with in the future...

Take 2 -- Thanks AGAIN to EVERYONE who took time to educate me on this SMS/MMS stuff... This Forum rocks!

Go  Apple!!!

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Go  Apple!!!

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post #97 of 97
Step 1; AT$T pull your head out of your A$$ and start delivering
Step 2: Shoot the people and the lawyers who actually thought this justifies clogging up the already over-burdened court system. I hope Apple takes them to the cleaners with a counter-suit.

Clearly if the dang feature (and others) WORKS in other locations NOT serviced by AT$T you can logically see the root cause is NOT the software, NOT the hardware, but the CARRIER that chooses to allow/run this device on their network.

Are we surrounded? Idiots to the left of us and Morons to the right! AUGH!
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