Apple expected to push for greater living room presence - Page 2

Who said it was perfect. Its highly flawed, hence my use of the term placeholder, but you are short-sided to think Apple can drop the whole idea of iTunes in the living room because you are caught up on the term hobby. A lot has changed in 3 years. Paths have closed while others have opened in these 3 years. You are also crazy to suggest a $700 Mac that requires a keyboard, mouse and extensive tweaking to work an HDTV in the same was as a $200 device designed for TV as a better solution than a media extender or game console with networking capabilities. Maybe you should look up 10-foot user interface. The Mac Mini makes for a great system for your TV for PC enthusiasts, but you claim that its ideal for the average person, which it is not. Its the last thing after the AppleTV, 360, PS3, TiVo and other devices for the average person. And yes, calling people fanboys and making up lies is being a jerk.

Okay... this is so odd since this week I decided to start implementing an XBMC for my homes various TVs. The wife and I got bit bad by the dvd-bug (very early on) and have amassed a wall of movies. No exaggeration, an entire wall, ceiling to floor of movies... I think It actually messes with my in home wifi... cause one area of my family room is a wifi dead-zone and the house is only 60x40 with the wifi sitting right in the middle. Anyway...

So yea.. as I'm building this system I'm first amazed at just how amazing it looks... Some of the skin developers really really have it going! Then again, some are SUPER bad but thats the world of open projects.

I'm ashamed to say the skin I'm running right now while I painstakingly add all my dvd content which should take hundreds of years and cost thousands of lives... (builders of the Panama canal got nuttin on me!) is really an impressive work of art AND something I know my wife and inlaws would take to in a second and thats saying LOTS, I've scrapped more 'automated home of the future' projects then I care to mention simply because the wife and inlaws just would want to learn it. I guess they're right, I love to learn this junk so its no big deal... not the same for them.

What I'm having a hard time understanding is why the movie industry doesn't take a second and learn from the iPhone App store and for that matter the fast food industry...

$.99 cents is a really sweet price! It's an 'ah what the hell its less than a buck' purchasing motivators. $1.99, $2.99, $3.99... now the number of people lining up starts to drop off significantly.

Look at it another way... Give a kid a $10 pre-paid movie card... that gets em what 1 or 1.5 visits to the mall mega-theater complex or 4ish? Apple TV movie rentals... It's not that enticing! Now how about that $10 movie card with a .99c price model... TEN whole movies for the little brat at 2 movies per weekend that would take care of a months worth of movies, to me thats something an aunt, uncle, cousin, grandma, etc would buy in a heartbeat and the best news is since the grocery store down the block already sells iTunes cards they don't even need to go out of their way.

I dunno... but I for one think the movie industry is loosing tons of potential revenue each and every day by having their price points set too high.

I wonder how many .99c App Store apps have outsold more than 60% of the available movies on iTunes today?

Heh... I'll bet Apple knows... lol

Dave

This is where competition should drive down the price of everything. Apple TV users would have at least two ways to get internet access (cable, phone) and two ways to get a TV package subscription (cable, Apple TV).

I do not think Apple can take a TV subscription package beyond niche status unless they (1) have all or nearly all of the major network shows, and (2) have the major live programming -- sports, news, award shows, etc. Apple will not be able to get a critical mass of people to adopt an Apple TV subscription package unless it allows them to cancel their cable TV subscription.

Even if Apple TV has a good, reasonably priced TV show subscription package, I don't see it going mass without Monday Night Football, CNN, the Academy Awards, etc.

You're crazy - A macmini cost $600- so therefor you lie. You call people jerks because they don't agree with you? That''s the real defiintion of the word "jerk".
Who need a mouse or keyboard? Haven't you ever heard of Front Row? It works with a remote. I suggest you read up on watching and listening to media on a Mac first before throwing such a hissy fit.
Who's saying anything about giving up Itunes in the living room? That's your warped interpretation.. I'm saying I want more - internet , mail, etc.- not just an iTunes jukebox.

Some kernels of good ideas here, but no way/no how that Apple is going to get into the cable subscription business. They did not get into that business model with the iPhone or iTunes, and I see no compelling reason for them to want to do it with @TV.

The only subscription business they do have - the awkwardly named 'MobileMe' - is a sub-par offering.

CNN? Fewer and fewer watch anymore: http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/03/c..._msnbc_gro.php

They used to be something........

What are you talking about? They helped get elected Barrack Obama almost singlehandedly.
Of course they're down now- it's not an election year and they invested too much prime promo on Anderson Cooper.

Apple's insane success leads me to truly believe that they monitor this forum closely and do EXACTLY the opposite of what techstud recommends.

Right - and that's why I bought an iPhone (which I trul;y love) July 3rd and the stock and the iPhone has gone up, up and up. Think again.
BTW - what is the success rate of the AppleTV again?

How's the weather on that planet you live on?
CNN's down, but because of the ravings of bigots like Lou Dobbs.

Is there a way to ignore people on this forum?



You buying an iPhone has nothing to do with what he stated and the fact that the stock market is rowing after falling so much this first part of the year. In fact, your comment makes no sense as a response to his comment. Did you expect Apple to drop the iPhone from their stores because you bought one? I thought ignorance was supposed to be bliss?

You shouldn't use words like bigot unless you understand their definiton first. Who are the others on CNN? You did pluralize the word.

- They helped get elected Barrack Obama almost singlehandedly.

Are you kidding me? How's about some numbers to back that up? Just because a cable news network turned into just another PR arm of the Democratic national party does not mean it was in any way responsible for the election...

For CNN to be a driving force in American politics they actually need AMERICANS to watch and listen to them. I think we're nearing the point where CNNs largest view base will be right-wingers who are simply tuning in so they have something to complain about to Rush or Hannity the following day.

You obviously have no sense of humor- do you? I was responding in like to his non-sensical remark. Geeesh!

An apostrophe plus s means either possession or contraction. Your argument is failing is worse if you have to attack syntax here, but you should at least try to be on target when you do.

By the way, bigoted is obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one's own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions. That sounds like you in a nutshell. Emphasis on nut. Just kidding, Im sure you are just having a bad day. We are all entitled to those every now and then.

They're going to have to if they want to break through into the living room or somebody else like Netflix or Microsoft will. iTunes TV shows simply cost too much money to buy consistently and the same subscriptions should apply to movies as well. You could have made the same argument about Apple making a phone 5 years ago. Just because they haven't done it, does not mean they will ever do it.

That being said, who in the hell trusts an analyst with what Apple does next? THey are almost never right and when they are it is just luck.

The two things I'd like to see in TV:
-same App Store apps as the tablet will use
-TV/Movies subscriptions that are cheaper than cable and rival Netflix. Also the ability to stream channels.

If they do this the TV would be the smash hit everyone expected it to be. I couldn't care less about a DVR. I want Apple to get rid of the cable box, not embolden it. Like the telcos, I want the cable companies to become dumb pipes.

!!!!!!! Weren't you told?!?!?! That's supposed to be a SECRET!!! Now you've really done it, wait till the others find out!

Dave

??? I'm having a great day. And thank you for calling me a name and than qualifying that you were "just kidding" -says even more about you.

Yep, this is the conundrum, Live Sports the only reason I have cableTV is for Formula One on SpeedTV.

Nothing would make me happier than being able to cancel my too expensive Cox Cable bill. I have had to scale back and get the slowest internet connection Cox offers (it is noticeably slower) and cancel my DVR, HD service and land line phone. My bill went from $150 to $90 and that is still too expensive.

I'm seriously considering canceling my ATT iPhone service and saving another $50/mo. by getting a cheap Verizon phone and carrying my iPhone as a Touch for free wifi only to access emails, etc.

I have an AppleTV, EyeTV and Cox Cable. But the quality of EyeTV is not good. After the F1 season I will be canceling my Cox TV cable.

That sounds reasonable and the likely path to take, but apps for a 10 touchscreen should be not the same apps for a TV. There needs to be an SDK that develops for a 10ft user interface.

Consoles arent too much more than the AppleTV and they offer Blu-ray or DVD playback while connecting to Netflix, YouTube, the internet and your home network so the AppleTV needs to be able to offer most of those things at a lower price or offer something else that cant easily be matched by the consoles to be a real winner in the media extender market. Its not going away and this hobby placeholder will have to be a primary leg or Apples operations soon or it may not ever have a chance without licensing iTunes to other peoples hardware. I think an AppleTV OS X SDK would be the killer app to set it apart from the herd, assuming that the other things like TV subscriptions are also included.

It's a fair point and comparatively poor sales (the 6.6m isn't too slack) show that many people concur with you. Whilst I think mine's great it's only because of the background work I have to do which makes it that way, not Apple's services (though we rarely rent films from elsewhere - including the satellite service). Apple either need to beef up their hardware statement or services or both: hardware - why isn't ATV my wireless & media server, surely integrating ATV & Time Capsule would add perceived value? Also, why can't we rent TV shows for half-price? The mechanism's there already!

McD

YES! I just set up a Tivo for my parents, and it was such an ordeal. If something didn't work (Tivo couldn't download channel listings, couldn't control my cable box, etc.) I had to UNPLUG the thing and start over! I probably spent 4-5 hours over a week just setting it up.

Not to mention that it's laggy (takes 4-5 seconds to switch channels), inelegant (the information display takes up about 40% of the TOP of the screen), and no longer has full "dual tuner" functionality since the digital switchover.

I hate the lag between channels and between the interface itself. I have the HD box so I thought it would be faster to switch between menus, but its still so slow. I hate the advertisements at the end of windows and the different interfaces for different things. Its all hackey. And I really hate that it doesnt buffer enough of an HD show despite my having a 1.5TB drive in it. I have plenty of space. MY PS3 and 360 are no better at things, though streaming Netflix from the 360 is better than the others. Ive tried a Mac Mini a couple years ago and you can set it up to work kind of like the AppleTV but it takes some AppleScripts and setup to get it going but youll still need a keyboard and mouse at times. For renting movies, listening to music in iTunes or watching YouTube videos I prefer the AppleTV, but its far from perfect. I dont expect it to be all of those devices in one, but streaming from Hulu and Netflix would be great for me and I think many others, too.

I continue to fail to see how AppleTV is such a disappointment to people. I've had it since day one and use it just about every day. I think many people who complain about the AppleTV don't have one. Check out this list of features:

- access to all my music, music video, podcast, TV show and movie libraries through iTunes
- access to all the pictures in iPhoto
- browsing movie trailers
- ability to search, browse and buy music and TV shows from the iTunes Store
- ability to buy and/or rent movies from the iTunes Store
- access to YouTube videos
- access to Flickr (mine and friend's galleries)
- access to Mobile Me Web Galleries
- ability to enjoy content from a friend's notebook when they visit

I've used all these features many times and have been very satisfied with my experience. One of my favorite things to do is use my TV as a huge digital picture frame (pick a photo album to be my screen saver when I'm playing music). This works exceptionally well at parties for creating a mood. Video Podcasts (new and original content for free) have become a regular part of my viewing schedule too. I've even been able to add my own content to iTunes to enjoy on my living room TV and all of it in an elegant interface with little hassle.

Because of AppleTV, I cancelled both my cable TV service and Netflix account - two years ago. I'm spending less and rarely feel like I'm missing out on anything. Aside from probably saying something about me, I think that says a lot about how 'successful' the AppleTV is. Sure I see room for improvement, but AppleTV is very far from the POS many people seem to label it. It offers a high degree of functionality.

My biggest area of concern is streaming hiccups and load times (both local and remote). It would also be nice to pull up the full info of a file just as you can iTunes. Adding DVR, DVD and/or BD not only cuts into iTunes Store purchases, but doesn't offer anything new or specific to the AppleTV. I'm not saying those are awful ideas but they aren't that exciting. AppleTV will grow when Apple can find more ways to differentiate it from everything else. Perhaps social networking features for rating and sharing what content you are enjoying is an area to explore. Encouraging and expanding Video Podcasts is something else I think Apple should look into. And of course there's the ever present desire for more content to buy and rent.

Really? Why? I'm by no means saying it should be a hostile take-over...did it break your heart when Apple bought PA Semi? How about Emagic? Maybe Apple supporters should be ashamed of Apple's purchase of NeXT? There's a big difference between the acquisition of a synergistic (hate the word, but it fits) company, and blindly buying up all competition in the way Cisco and Microsoft have at times done.

So, how about some valid response to my proposition...I have for _years_ been saying that Netflix would make a great, compatible, market-expanding purchase for Apple. I actually wrote a paper about it when I was getting my MBA, before Netflix launched their streaming service...it just makes more sense now.

I'm not sure why AppleTV users should be allowed to rent movies for half price, but I think your idea about integrating the AppleTV with the Time Capsule is brilliant. Now that's something to get excited about!

I'm with you. I never saw the point of Apple TV. For how much it costs and how little it does, why wouldn't you just get a Mini?

Well, that's not it.. it's not a great place to constantly backup your data because of the limited hard drive space compared to Time Capsule and it's simply not that efficient, since your computer would have to send that backup data to the router and then to the Apple TV. Besides Apple would love to have you buying Time Capsule.. it certainly makes them much more money than Apple TV. Maybe something like being a media streaming server for all the electronics in the house is more realistic. Serving up your purchased iTunes content to your iPhone, Macs, iPod touches without taking up space on those respective devices.

It would be nice to search my own music files directly in its GUI- not just music to buy from iTunes. Also iTunes video selection is very limited. Apple refuses to open ATV up, as so with everything else Apple, but in this case it hurts it. Most of its films offered are crappola. I would also like to browse the internet in my living room on my 42 inch HDTV- is that such a difficult request ? To add Safari to it? And it def needs games and recording capabilites.
As long as AppleTV remains basically a consumer iTunes digital jukebox with an emphasis on buying and renting from iTunes it will never catch on with the public. It's not a great device like an iPod- hot as hell- it doesn't even have an on/off switch???? I've owned one for over 2 years. Airtunes on my Airport express worked basically just as well for what I use it for - listening to my music.
And where's its Visualizer?

Re your Off Topics but loud comment on posts ...
If Apple would only allow you to purchase and download Snow Leopard on line (it is only <7 Gigs which on a fast connection is not too bad) you can easily create a 10 Gig partition on your HD, install on the new partition from the image file then boot from the partition and voila!

or you could buy the external drive from Apple, install and then return it for refund.

Didnt he say that he bought the original AppleTV before any of the cool YouTube, Flickr, or movie rental was available? Its gotten so much better now but he saying it was better then when he bought it? For $200 and the ease of use I prefer it to my other devices that do the same thing, but for $600 for a Mac MIni that requires me to plug in my keyboard and mouse and stand next to my TV to switch apps its not a great idea. For techheads Im sure its great, but then why buy a Mac Mini at all when you can get a tower with a Blu-ray player and DVR for the same price and actually have true OS for your media with it. The AppleTV is far from perfect but a Mac Mini to suit the average persons needs for their TV is even much farther away.



The comment by Ireland isnt correct by a long shot. There is remote disc, any USB optical drive or external flash or harddrive, or even a partition on the internal drive to install Snow Leopard.

Up till now A mac mini is a great apple tv player with all the extra computer stuff thrown in . i bought a $100 roku box to add to this and i am fine .

BUT i await the day when The APPLE TV grows up to its full potential. I will buy . Maybe it will be the iphone in the sky

can you 2 babies leave the topic now

>>>
Apple TVBOX THAT works like DVR/ROKU box
would rock . Witha 500 >750g HD And full internet play thru with the already fantastic itune>iphoto>imovie on our 1080p TV's rocks.

And to think that i all of this media content can get to our iphones.mbp's and our ipods> tablets will make apple unbeatable . oh And all those games to DL !!!


9

Congratulations, you know more than me.

My only comment would be that since Netflix already has deals with many other companies (i.e. Samsung, Microsoft, LG etc.) i really don't see how Apple could keep those connectionsif they purchased Netflix. Plus, Netflix has an entirely different business model to media distribution than Apple. So sure, it could work, but i don't think it would happen. Considering Netflix is a pretty major competitor in the Media Distribution market (along with iTunes, Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, and some of the free sites like HULU), i see that as more of a hostile take-over rather than strategic merger. Unless Netflix really doesn't care about keeping it's business, I don't see the advantage to merging with Apple for them? You would think that if Apple did purchase Netflix, they would continue the subscription service? Or, would they raise prices and have an even larger market share of subscribers? Sounds more the case to me. That would probably be bad from the Netflix perspective.

But, since you're the expert, i don't feel as though i can contribute to the level you desire. Go ahead and tell my why my thoughts are wrong.

Apple certainly hasn't succeeded in changing the way we watch TV. What's more, other boxes have offered greater functionality... so the AppleTV hasn't really taken off. It's interesting that my parents think the best feature is the screen saver - they have a beautiful huge plasma and while they've got music on in the background, family photos
stream by... it is quite impressive... but not the game changer.


If they want to make a fully functional multi-platform DVR, then yes. If they want to simply do a FTA DVR and supplement with iTunes subscription, that makes a lot of sense. It takes pressure off the internet (and people's cable accounts) for a significant proportion of shows people want to "time shift" (ie recordings) while still offering content from cable channels to watch "time shifted" (ie downloaded) - all potentially in a single interface.


The Netflix model is actually one that doesn't work well for the movie companies IMO. The studio can only sell the DVD once, and it's then rented out many times. Netflix works great for users who make the minimal effort to keep it all rolling well... I'm sure AppleTV can not compete with the best use scenarios of Netflix, but Netflix itself might not be able to continue that model.


Apple is actually very controlled in its ability to transfer. They can offer better security than many other device makers. Still, they might restrict it.

I think it's possible Apple could start with deals with just a few big players - for example, a subscription to Discovery Networks. That wouldn't mean streaming Discovery channels, but access to a great library of Discovery content (for a subscription fee) that can be selected and watched just like buying/renting content now.

* A deal with ABC (including Disney, Family, ESPN) might make sense.
* Or NBC (USA & Scifi channels)
* Or a Movie Network subscription - just allowing any movie shown on the regular channel in the last week to be downloaded free (to be watched within a month, just like rental).

They could target the people who occassionally wonder if they need their cable subscription, and niche viewers. Maybe that's only 10% of people, but it would be a significant start.


Only if they can make something quite different to what people expect now. And on demand programs might do that.

I personally think they need to consider 4 models for watching
1) Buy TV shows
2) Rent TV shows
3) Subscribe to "channels"
4) Insert advertising so it's all free.

#4 hasn't really been done well, and it needs a good online model (advertising still follows the old model). But Apple could put ads customised just for us, individually, into the ad spots for a show. It could force us not to skip the ads. It could provide an option to get more information (now, or later). These ads are much more valuable than regular ads... and could enable free download of the TV show that goes with them.


Live is more difficult - though Apple now has really beefed up support for live streaming.

By delaying slightly - AppleTV could do an amazing news service. Forget the 30min news bulletin and replace it with 2 hours of separate 30second-to-5minute stories that are accessible via a news menu. Allow us to select and watch stories individually, OR preselect (from a list) what we want to see, in long or short form, so we can watch our own custom news program. Even let us select "track updates" to a story, while watching. When opening the aTV News Screen, it could present the same 30second 'teaser' of upcoming news the networks already provide, it could preselect the stories with its best guess of our interests, let us modify our selections to then watch the news.

Netflix sure looks solid right now. I just looked up the stock history since 2003 and it's been steadily going up since then with a major crest between '03 and '04. it's continuing to go up and will probably due so until this recession (depression) levels out. People are going to be renting way more than buying in this economy. BD/DVD manufacturers and STB makers alike are making deals and adapting to Netflix on demand. You never know though, it could tank in a year but i see it leveling off for a while before it goes away, and that could be years away. Where else can you get obscure titles and TV shows from a collection as extensive as Netflix? I really dare you to find me an alternative company that has the 10k titles and more. They'll adapt, the same way they adapted to iTunes threat by offering demand streaming view.

Seems all obvious what Apple could do but it has been years that we've been asking for DVR. Subscriptions are risky because the content providers can pull the plug on such ventures at will like NBC did to Apple.

DVR and console gaming are the two areas that will propell the AppleTV.

I hope it's updated software, i don't want to have to buy again.