An American in Taliban?!

I hope to god they try him for treason. If his actions didn't lead to any American deaths then I'd be fine with him sitting in jail for some years.

Agreed. Let the POS rot....

I think about 5 years should do it.

I actually had sympathy for him - it seemed like he was just some dumb guy, the kind of person who might join a cult, and then got sucked into the Taliban without really knowing what it was about.

It didn't seem like he went in with a hatred of America or a desire to be a terrorist or something. But I didn't see that much info about it.

John Rocker's in the Taliban? This explains so much! Oh wait, it's Walker...


Jeff

They should just sentence him to walk down to the WTC wreckage and introduce himself to the recovery crew. That would take care of him pretty quick.

He's gonna be dead before he gets out of the hospital!

[quote]Originally posted by MacAddict:
<strong>He's gonna be dead before he gets out of the hospital!</strong><hr></blockquote>

No he wont. The American SF have control of him.

Hmm, he is still a US citizen so we won't get to see him tried before a tribunal - or will we? All we have to do is revoke his citizenship (and I beleive surving in a foreign military may do that) and we can try him before a military tribunal. Hmm, I'm need to ask a lawyer friend of mine if he revoked his citizenship or not. It makes for a very interesting legal problem for all concerned - especially him.

[quote]Originally posted by ac2c:
<strong>Hmm, he is still a US citizen so we won't get to see him tried before a tribunal - or will we? All we have to do is revoke his citizenship (and I beleive surving in a foreign military may do that) and we can try him before a military tribunal. Hmm, I'm need to ask a lawyer friend of mine if he revoked his citizenship or not. It makes for a very interesting legal problem for all concerned - especially him.</strong><hr></blockquote>

More hysteria predicting the coming (or is here now we just don't know it) police state.

i hope they rip every useful bit of information from this guy, then either reprogram his ass or execute him.

nobody seems to think treason is a big deal anymore.

The kid went to the Middle East to study Islam. It was when he was already over there that he got mixed up with the Taliban and joined their forces (long before Sept. 11).

The Taliban aren't the terrorists, Al Qaeda is. Unless we can prove that he either worked for Al Qaeda or fired on U.S. troops then there's no way we can take him to trial for treason.

If whatever Afgani gov't comes forward and wants to try him (and other Taliban soldiers) for crimes against the Afgani people then they should, but I don't think there's anything the U.S. gov't can try him against.

Too bad there are no laws against being a dumb-ass.

[quote]Originally posted by GraphX:
<strong>

The Taliban aren't the terrorists, Al Qaeda is. Unless we can prove that he either worked for Al Qaeda or fired on U.S. troops then there's no way we can take him to trial for treason.

If whatever Afgani gov't comes forward and wants to try him (and other Taliban soldiers) for crimes against the Afgani people then they should, but I don't think there's anything the U.S. gov't can try him against.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


First off, you can't draw such a distinction between the Taliban and Al Qaeda. They operate hand in glove.

Secondly, if an American citizen taking up arms on foreign soil AGAINST AMERICAN TROOPS (whether or not he actually succeeded in killing any) isn't treason, I'd love to know what IS.

If he doesn't get put away for the rest of his life (or gets no jail time at all), it's really condoning people that want to go and fight in foreign wars.

If he gets away with it, what's to keep someone else going to fight with them? Just because he was born in America, doesn't mean he won't be tried for treason.

[quote]Originally posted by GraphX:
<strong>The Taliban aren't the terrorists, Al Qaeda is. Unless we can prove that he either worked for Al Qaeda or fired on U.S. troops then there's no way we can take him to trial for treason. </strong><hr></blockquote>

He says he did join and/or train with Al Qaeda. He trained at camps where Osama showed up several times.

I wonder if he knew or had any hint of "something big" on the 11th?

I have no sympathy at all for this bastard. He's not dumb...finished some accelerated high school curriculum when he was 16...moved to the middle east, studied Arabic and excelled at it. Then later became fascinated with the Taliban and their "causes." He knew exactly what he was doing.

Coming from a Berkley-like area in California, it shouldn't surprise us this kid thought he was some kind of radical crusader against the evil capitalists. Even the guy's Dad seems more sorry that his son has endured hardship in a prison, than the fact that he's a freaking traitor to his country.

Said something like "Well, I want to give my son a big hug because we miss him, and also maybe a kick in the butt because he didn't ask my permission to go to the middle east." What a fu*king numb-skull. How about "We are extremely disappointed in and embarrassed by our son's actions, and he will have to face whatever legal challenges that come on his own."

As Cartman would say, what a bunch of tree-huggin' hippie CRAP!

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

To those crying out "Oh no, not TREASON!" I give you the following definition:

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death.

Amen, brother.

[quote]Originally posted by ac2c:
<strong>Hmm, he is still a US citizen so we won't get to see him tried before a tribunal - or will we? All we have to do is revoke his citizenship (and I beleive surving in a foreign military may do that) and we can try him before a military tribunal.</strong><hr></blockquote>Actually, there's no basic principle that says military tribunals can't be used on American citizens. Bush's current order specifices only non-citizens, but that could be changed as easily as revoking his citizenship.

We don't NEED the military tribunal to try this guy. He's an American citizen who violated the US constitutional law against treason. The Federal court system can handle this.

I wonder if the lights will flicker the way they did when Bundy got fried in Florida....

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>I was lurking over at Macnn's Forums and look what I found...

<a href="http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001199" target="_blank">I knew John Walker Lindh (the Taliban guy)</a>

Weird... :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep, I'm the guy that posted there.

I'm sure it's very convenient for some of you to pigeonhole the guy as "a moron" or "a hippie freak" or whatever. He isn't. Nor was he some America-hater or "nutty radical," at least not when I used to regularly chat with him.

I don't care for the Taliban one bit. But if you want to try anyone for treason, let's start with the Shrub (aka George W. Bush)'s father, who propped bin-Ladin up and trained him in the first place. Let's start with all the members of the CIA who provided him with the knowledge and wherewithal he currently has. Try THOSE bastards for treason.

Then you can talk to me about John.

[quote]Originally posted by CommonSense:
<strong>
I don't care for the Taliban one bit. But if you want to try anyone for treason, let's start with the Shrub (aka George W. Bush)'s father, who propped bin-Ladin up and trained him in the first place. Let's start with all the members of the CIA who provided him with the knowledge and wherewithal he currently has. Try THOSE bastards for treason.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Siding with your country's enemies, against your own country, does NOT equal supporting a foreign person, group or government that later turns into your country's enemy.

[quote]Originally posted by CommonSense:
<strong>I don't care for the Taliban one bit. But if you want to try anyone for treason, let's start with the Shrub (aka George W. Bush)'s father, who propped bin-Ladin up and trained him in the first place. Let's start with all the members of the CIA who provided him with the knowledge and wherewithal he currently has. Try THOSE bastards for treason.

Then you can talk to me about John.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And here we see the attitude of people like John. When exactly did Bush Sr give money to bin Laden? I dont remember that happening. Must have pulled that out of your ass huh?

scott h, actually, bush sr. did give money/arms to Bin Laden, back when Russia was in afganistan. athough it makes sense to me that you spend money on your enemies enemy to help yourself and your country out.

this kid is still a traitor.

[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>scott h, actually, bush sr. did give money/arms to Bin Laden, back when Russia was in afganistan. athough it makes sense to me that you spend money on your enemies enemy to help yourself and your country out.

this kid is still a traitor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I haven't seen any proof of that at all. All indication is that bin Laden hated the westerners even back then. bin Laden brought his own money and people to Afghanistan. So unless you have a hard source...

Scott, it's not really disputed that in the 1980s, the US gave equipment, training and funding to Afghan mujahadin fighters (a group participated in, but not led by, Bin Laden) to help them against the (then) USSR.

This isn't some conspiracy theory or shocking revelation that will devastate the legacy of Bush Sr. or Reagan (but don't take me as an apologist for them as I'm a Democrat!), but something understood and acknowledged by most. At that time, the enemy of our enemy was our friend.

hmm, i looked around a couldn't find anything online, although i did see a report about it on CNN (TV) back when all this was first happening.

doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, we do it all the time.

oh man...

don't you guys get it?

if and when you get out of the USA for a while and look back at your beloved homeland, you will see that its not all good and just. Anything but.

The USA has done so much sh!t to other people I can't even begin.

Imagine this:

You love the Inca civilization. You study spanish and you devour everything you come accross that has to do with the Inca civilization. You are devoted to Peru and absolutely are sure that you want to go there to study it.

You go there and you go in the Andes mountains and while studying, you camp at and with the indios. You start to understand the hardships they have been through and still go through because of the 'civilized' nations like the USA and the Peruvian government. You get totally sympathetic with them and you want to help in anyway you can. You go and volonteer with the "Shining Path" guerilla fighters and fight for what you BELIEVE in.

The kid in Afganistan is basically in the same damn situation. He BELIEVES what he has done and what he did was right. Whether he was brain washed or not is a different stroy.

Understand Islam first too. Its an amazing religion. Its definetly weird sometimes (for us) but it is fascinating. I am not at all surprised he wanted to visit the middle-east and easily got caught up in that hell. Middle-easterners are great story tellers (liars) and if you are already predisposed to wanting to listen and learn... hell, they can have you in a minute.

Like many people... I am sure he hates the US for the horrors it has committed... not necessarily the people in it. If the US would leave the damn middle-east alone and stop supporting Israel like the fvcking 51st US State, you would see much less resentment towards us.

The kid goes against the status quo... and now we want to kill him. He wasn't fighting the US. He was fighting against the Northern Alliance. He SURRENDERED in Kandahar. He HID in the basement. He didn't go out in a blaze of glory. He is 20 fer chrissake. He has his whole life in front of him.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: ZO ]</p>

Zo get your facts straight and then try to tell us something.

[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Scott, it's not really disputed that in the 1980s, the US gave equipment, training and funding to Afghan mujahadin fighters (a group participated in, but not led by, Bin Laden) to help them against the (then) USSR. </strong><hr></blockquote>

From what I read bin Laden had his own money and own group of fighters. I think bin Laden is the source for this thought so....

Scott, these two histories of Bin Laden both mention the US/CIA role in the supporting the mujahadin against the USSR occupation of Afghanistan. Remember, Osama Bin Laden was not "large and in charge" at that time.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_155000/155236.stm" target="_blank">BBC</a>


<a href="http://www.newyorker.com/FROM_THE_ARCHIVE/ARCHIVES/?010924fr_archive03" target="_blank">New Yorker</a>

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: sizzle chest ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Scott, these two histories of Bin Laden both mention the US/CIA role in the supporting the mujahadin against the USSR occupation of Afghanistan. Remember, Osama Bin Laden was not "large and in charge" at that time.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_155000/155236.stm" target="_blank">BBC</a>


<a href="http://www.newyorker.com/FROM_THE_ARCHIVE/ARCHIVES/?010924fr_archive03" target="_blank">New Yorker</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

YES I KNOW THAT. But once again there's no indication that bin Laden got direct help from the US. Read the New Yorker auricle. It says bin Laden showed up with his own stuff.

People just keep trying to paint bin Laden as some genesis of US meddling. Fact is he's been an evil hateful man almost his whole life. He looks for war and death where ever he can find it.

It's just more the Blame America crowed spreading half truths and out right lies. Like the one where we gave $80 million to the Taliban.

I agree that there's absolutely no sense in which the US "made Bin Laden what he is today." The only irony is that some of the old weapons held by Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters were purchased/supplied over a decade ago by US agents.

I'm not even sure about that. What I see is bunch of thugs using Soviet equipment.