or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple drops Palm OS HotSync conduit from Snow Leopard
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple drops Palm OS HotSync conduit from Snow Leopard

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Apple has discontinued support for legacy Palm OS devices in Mac OS X Snow Leopard's iSync 3.1.0, according to sources familiar with the latest Gold Master build, requiring users of Palm OS devices to obtain third party support for syncing their Palm Desktop information with Mac OS X's Sync Services.

Palm continues to provide a very old version of Palm Desktop 4.2.1D for Mac users, enabling legacy Palm Centro, Treo, Zire, Tungsten, LifeDrive, and Pilot models to synchronize with its Mac OS X Universal Binary desktop software. That software is based upon what was originally Apple's Claris Organizer, which Steve Jobs sold to Palm over a decade ago as Apple divested itself of its already long in the tooth Claris apps.

In concert with launching its Macs as the "digital hub" and selling the iPod, Apple developed iSync for Mac OS X, which enabled devices from any manufacturer to sync their data with a common store shared by desktop apps including iCal and Address Book. It eventually allowed users to also sync that information with Apple's .Mac service, now called MobileMe.

Palm never bothered to update its Palm Desktop for Mac software to make it compatible with Apple's iSync, but Apple, in an effort to keep Macs compatible with Palm's device, created its own Palm Conduit software that linked Palm Desktop's HotSync system into iSync. This software was then incorporated as part of iSync 2.0, released as part of Mac OS X Tiger nearly half a decade ago.

With Palm all but abandoning its "classic" devices developed prior to the new Palm Pre, which does not use the same legacy Palm OS nor its HotSync or Palm Desktop software, the value of maintaining HotSync support in Mac OS X has dropped dramatically, leaving Apple to cut the support from the version that ships with Mac OS X Snow Leopard entirely.

It does not appear that the discontinuation of legacy Palm OS support in iSync is at all related to efforts by Palm to trick iTunes into syncing data with the new Palm Pre as if it were an iPod. While Apple doesn't provide a public syncing system for using iTunes, it does provide public APIs for any developer to hook into Mac OS X's Sync Services.

Third party software, including the Missing Sync from Mark/Space, enables Mac users to sync calendars, contacts, bookmarks, music, documents and other information between older Palm OS devices as well as other hardware including the new Palm Pre, BlackBerry, Symbian, and Windows Mobile phones and the Sony PlayStation Portable.
post #2 of 51
Another Palm smackdown from Apple!
post #3 of 51
Indeed. Remaining Treo/Tungsten users are going to have to scramble to find a new solution. All three of you.
post #4 of 51
Well this was kinda obvious, with Palm trying to bone Apple, why would apple waste resources supporting their antiques?
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #5 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Indeed. Remaining Treo/Tungsten users are going to have to scramble to find a new solution. All three of you.

Thats funny
post #6 of 51
As long as they continue to support my Newton.
post #7 of 51
Man oh man, Palm is on life support.
iPhone 4 32GB (black), iPod touch 32GB, iPad Wi-Fi + 3G 64GB, iPod classic 80 GB (white) 160GB (black), 2x 5th gen iPod 30GB (black + white), iMac 27", MacBook Pro 17", Time Capsule 1TB, Apple TV
Reply
iPhone 4 32GB (black), iPod touch 32GB, iPad Wi-Fi + 3G 64GB, iPod classic 80 GB (white) 160GB (black), 2x 5th gen iPod 30GB (black + white), iMac 27", MacBook Pro 17", Time Capsule 1TB, Apple TV
Reply
post #8 of 51
Whew! for a few seconds I considered a Palm PDA, but then I got an iPod Touch instead
Mac user since 1990 - System 6.0.7 through OS X 10.6 - Mac Mini (2009) - 4/320 - Snow Leopard
Reply
Mac user since 1990 - System 6.0.7 through OS X 10.6 - Mac Mini (2009) - 4/320 - Snow Leopard
Reply
post #9 of 51
Palm OS has not been owned by Palm for 7 years. They didnt make an effort, sold it off, and the new owners didnt do much more; Palm certainly never game them a reason to. It's been kept alive by 3rd party developers for the last decade, effectively.

As the article mentions, those same 3rd party devs will keep you going if you get 10.6.

This was not a blow to Palm. They want you to buy a Pre. They own and want to sell you Web OS.
post #10 of 51
Having just found out about The Missing Sync, that looks to be some great software that I'd recommend to anyone running a mac that didn't have an iphone. Its really a shame Palm couldn't come up with something like this, or license it, on their own. Doing the "ha, we tricked your software into thinking I'm an ipod" seems shady and sad for a company that's trying to improve their image, and makes me wonder what other corners were cut. Just doesn't seem professional.
post #11 of 51
I've used Missing Sync for years, and it works great. It's highly recommended.
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple has discontinued support for legacy Palm OS devices in Mac OS X Snow Leopard's iSync 3.1.0, according to sources familiar with the latest Gold Master build...

Just what build is the GM now?! 10A432, I assume? Could anyone verify this once and for all?
Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
Reply
Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
Reply
post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Indeed. Remaining Treo/Tungsten users are going to have to scramble to find a new solution. All three of you.

Very nice!
post #14 of 51
Good riddance. POS was making my Mac unstable when I was dedicating my PDA/Smartphone years with Palm. Having put up with their unstable shoddy software, treating Mac users as 3rd rate citizens. Good riddance.
post #15 of 51
I actually like the Palm Desktop Calender
(which was based on Apple's Claris Organizer from over a decade ago)
_BETTER_ than Apple's iCal !

It had many more features and options. It had MUCH better and faster data entry and was better at creating reoccurring events and events spanning multiple dates. Had MANY more print options.

Apple has not done a whole lot of development with iCal in recent years. Pretty stagnant.

Maybe this is their time for them to get to work.
post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Another Palm smackdown from Apple!

How so? Apple continued supporting PalmOS devices long after Palm had forgotten them. I'm just surprised they'd kept iSync support for Palm this long.

I've just recently retired my Sony Clie (PalmOS 5.0) for a 3GS, and the only reason I'd kept the Clie that long is that there hasn't been a Palm branded PalmOS device worth the trouble of owning.

Perhaps now Palm will realise that they've had their time in the sun, and will soon fade quietly into obscurity.
post #17 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Indeed. Remaining Treo/Tungsten users are going to have to scramble to find a new solution. All three of you.

Actually, I still have a nice treo 755P. There's just nothing else that I can buy that I can take my Quicken along with me. At any rate.. I switched over to Missing Sync when I upgraded to Leopard because Syncing was so disjunct when Leopard came out. They never got it completely working. When I switched over to Missing, I wondered why I waited so long. It works flawlessly. I had to re-arrange the folders and programs to a more "mac" like organization, but other than that it works great. It does Categories in address book, photos, pretty much everything.
post #18 of 51
Palm, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, update Palm Desktop for Mac which has not been updated for almost decades!!!

Thanks.
post #19 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Palm never bothered to update its Palm Desktop for Mac software to make it compatible with Apple's iSync, but Apple, in an effort to keep Macs compatible with Palm's device, created its own Palm Conduit software that linked Palm Desktop's HotSync system into iSync

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

I actually like the Palm Desktop Calender

Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Good riddance. POS was making my Mac unstable when I was dedicating my PDA/Smartphone years with Palm.

Palm was a great platform, I still use my Sony Clie from 2003. (the one based on the 68000 chip- the CPU of the Mac Classic!)

Syncing with Palm Desktop Mac is still possible I assume.

I prefer Palm Desktop on PCs, I switched from Mac to PC to support my 'legacy' stuff.

post #20 of 51
Good! Screw those fockers.
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Another Palm smackdown from Apple!

No doubt! How's Palm gonna respond? They'll probably drop support for iTunes - oh wait they want that.
post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Well this was kinda obvious, with Palm trying to bone Apple, why would apple waste resources supporting their antiques?

I suspect part of Apple's desire to support Palm (back in the day) was that, at the time, Palm was just about the only serious competitor to Windows Mobile devices (please, no comments about the Psion, wonderful as it may have been). Now that Apple has effectively kicked Microsoft's arse in the handheld arena (which isn't really hard as crappy as WinMo is), they really don't need to support anything else, especially something as old as PalmOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

Apple has not done a whole lot of development with iCal in recent years. Pretty stagnant.

Maybe this is their time for them to get to work.

Or, perhaps now that Exchange Server support is built into the OS (with iCal support for Exchange calendars), Apple has new reason to breathe some life into iCal (which has served me fine actually as a front-end to Google and MobileMe calendars).

Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Actually, I still have a nice treo 755P. There's just nothing else that I can buy that I can take my Quicken along with me.

Oh don't get me wrong - my slam against Palm aside, I had a Palm 3, V and a Tungsten|E and thought they were all great. I also had an OmniSky CDPD cradle for my V, and used Pocket Quicken on all of them-it was one of the reasons I kept my Palm going too. I finally retired it when it turned on and froze up in my bag on a flight home and I lost all the travel notes I'd taken on my trip when the battery died. As that had happened multiple times before, I was finally done.
post #23 of 51
You know it's easy to read too much into this. Had SL come out a month before Pre, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

At it's heart, this is about Apple removing some legacy code from the OS. Given they are cutting the footprint of the OS by 7Gb, I bet there is a lot more legacy stuff gone than just the iSync.

As I say, it's only because Palm and Apple are having a tit for tat fight that this rates a mention.
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Another Palm smackdown from Apple!

The only people they're smacking down are their customers. Looks like I won't be upgrading to Snow Leopard any time soon and I might have to rethink my iPhone plans when my contract upgrade comes in december. Very Jobs like to take it out on the users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

You know it's easy to read too much into this. Had SL come out a month before Pre, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

At it's heart, this is about Apple removing some legacy code from the OS. Given they are cutting the footprint of the OS by 7Gb, I bet there is a lot more legacy stuff gone than just the iSync.

As I say, it's only because Palm and Apple are having a tit for tat fight that this rates a mention.

That depends if Palm support was the only thing they took out or not. Either way its going to make life very difficult for Mac users with palm devices.
post #25 of 51
Reminds me, I guess I better check that my phone's iSync plug-in still works with iSync 3.1 before upgrading to 10.6. Can I assume that since it's a minor version upgrade (3.0.2 to 3.1) my non-Apple iSync plug-ins should work? It's a simple dumb phone, but syncing contacts with Address Book is a very nice feature to have.
post #26 of 51
I'm on 10.4.11, Treo 700p & Palm Desktop.

Now that SL 10.6 is out in a few days, I'd have to migrate my data somehow into Entourage, Office 2004, using Missing Sync, and MS's Note Book store all my Palm Memo's that will show up on iPhone... I am quite nervous about that transition, cause it's part of big upgrade to Mac Book Pro with SL, thus a lot of "balls in the air" not to drop...

Luckily, with SuperDuper, I clone daily, but still... I just want my Palm Memo on my iPhone, and be able to Edit them on MBP or iPhone and have them always in Sync with their Fliq application over IP.

http://www.markspace.com/iphone/mac

http://www.markspace.com/products/fliq/mac

What scares me is that Missing Sync doesn't have any phone support, not even pre-sales, to help me with this! And, going to Apple Store is almost useless in that regard.

I would have loved to see Apple have a Memo Application as part of iPhone, without having to rely on MS or any 3rd party developers! Is that so much to ask to be able to carry your Editable Documents and Sync them?

Has anyone performed a similar Great Escape from Treo to iPhone? Any pitfalls to look out for? I could either use MS to Sync my Treo 700p to Entourage, or use Missing Sync's Migration Assistant!

TIA for anyone's help!

 

Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

Reply

 

Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

Reply
post #27 of 51
Palm OS has long been called Garnet OS and isn't owned by Palm.

It's owned by a company called Access. They don't have the rights to use the Palm name. Since 2005 (!)

Palm's operating systems of choice are Web OS and formerly Windows Mobile. Palm hasn't released a Garnet OS device since 2007.
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

Apple has not done a whole lot of development with iCal in recent years. Pretty stagnant.

iCal is crap.

No version of iCal supports authenticated proxy servers.

CALDAV breaks.
Subscribed calendars break.
and now... Exchange ActiveSync breaks.

And it's supposed to be used in a workplace...
post #29 of 51
iCal is crap.

No version of iCal supports authenticated proxy servers.

CALDAV breaks.
Subscribed calendars break.
and now... Exchange ActiveSync breaks.

And it's supposed to be used in a workplace...

Even funnier is the Bug Reports in Snow Leopard still don't work behind one either. (They never have - so Apple is oblivious to crashes caused by authenticated proxy servers.)

Hilarious
post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Palm, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, update Palm Desktop for Mac which has not been updated for almost decades!!!

Thanks.

Why would they update it?

The have nothing to do with that OS. The last time they licensed it for use in one of their handhelds was 2007. They had a fling with Windows Mobile. Now they are completely focussed on Web OS.

Palm Desktop doesn't work with Windows Mobile and doesn't make sense with Web OS. So it is useless for their handsets released in the last two years.
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

I actually like the Palm Desktop Calender
(which was based on Apple's Claris Organizer from over a decade ago)
_BETTER_ than Apple's iCal !

It had many more features and options. It had MUCH better and faster data entry and was better at creating reoccurring events and events spanning multiple dates. Had MANY more print options.

Apple has not done a whole lot of development with iCal in recent years. Pretty stagnant.

Maybe this is their time for them to get to work.

I agree. It was simple and straight forward. I only used the Palm Desktop on PC's, and it worked perfectly, I never had duplicates or missing data after sync's. Unfortunately the fields available in the address book became a little outdated, but I was able to live with it. There are times I'd prefer to have the Palm Desktop software and a mail application like the "good old days"...

I can't believe that two years later I still can't view iCal tasks natively on my iPhone.

--Dave
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
post #32 of 51
It's also just dawned on me that this shows an example of the turnaround for Apple and the loss for Palm. A few years ago, Apple user base was so small that Palm didn't really need to bother with support for their products.

Now one of Palms advertising brags is support for Apple.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by retnuh View Post

Having just found out about The Missing Sync, that looks to be some great software that I'd recommend to anyone running a mac that didn't have an iphone. Its really a shame Palm couldn't come up with something like this, or license it, on their own. Doing the "ha, we tricked your software into thinking I'm an ipod" seems shady and sad for a company that's trying to improve their image, and makes me wonder what other corners were cut. Just doesn't seem professional.

(among others giving glowing reviews for Missing Sync). Yes, it's a nice program. Better than what Apple and Palm had. Frankly, Palm Desktop for Mac sucked and iSync is nearly useless for Palm and many other devices anyway, Missing Sync provided the glue necessary to keep me going until I bought an iPhone, which now has data that originally was entered on the Palm.

I wonder why these "sources" had to point out the missing conduit? I bet it wouldn't have been noticed if it was just silently dropped. I haven't heard of many people "in the wild" even using iSync except maybe to fiddle with it for a few minutes.
post #34 of 51
Will missing sync still work?

Because my father's MacBook has Missing Sync installed and he owns a Palm with Palm OS. Before installing Snow Leopard on his mac I wanted to make sure the calendar is not going to break.

Before I worked here there was an external "IT guy" who suggested him to purchase a Win based PDA. He owned a Palm OS device then. I suggested he stick with Palm OS instead of Win. I've been trying to convert him to iPhone or iPod Touch but he is very happy with stylus input and wants a discrete device (so no iPhone but also no iPod Touch). I have been looking around for some time now and didn't find a suiting alternative. But I am still pushing in the direction of the iPhone...


In the meantime I would just be happy to know that Missing Sync does the job and he can have Snow Leopard installed. (yes, his MacBook is C2D..)
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

The only people they're smacking down are their customers. Looks like I won't be upgrading to Snow Leopard any time soon and I might have to rethink my iPhone plans when my contract upgrade comes in december. Very Jobs like to take it out on the users.



That depends if Palm support was the only thing they took out or not. Either way its going to make life very difficult for Mac users with palm devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

No doubt! How's Palm gonna respond? They'll probably drop support for iTunes - oh wait they want that.

People need to know the facts before they jump over Apple. Palm does not own Palm OS anymore and this format has not been supported for years, so why would Apple use this as a screw job on Palm.

SL does not support PPC, which is majority of code that has been removed including any PPC related support software. Palm Desktop for Mac has not been supported in years.

So for few hundred people, Apple should provide sub-standard operating system to support you, get real! Even worse waste money and time keeping this support and then majority of us do not require it, but we are paying for the R&D to keep the support in SL.

There are enough solutions to ensure your life is not diffcult, like missing sync, which is great solution.

Apple have transitioned to intel based Macs and needed to cut lifeline from PPC suport with concerning to the operating system, since the precentage of core customers with PPC is small.

Progress will involve some diffcult decisions, but it usually for the good of EVERYONE.
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

You know it's easy to read too much into this. Had SL come out a month before Pre, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

At it's heart, this is about Apple removing some legacy code from the OS. Given they are cutting the footprint of the OS by 7Gb, I bet there is a lot more legacy stuff gone than just the iSync.

And given that Apple likely had to reverse engineer the layout of Palm's address book "database" (it's really just chunks), there's probably some code that's very specific about packing in there. While it's not exactly hard to port, it's more involved than most code. So it's in moments like the 64-bit transition that legacy code like this is appraised and cut.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Indeed. Remaining Treo/Tungsten users are going to have to scramble to find a new solution. All three of you.

When my first gen iPhone died, I bought a Treo 680 and been happier with it. Sure, I miss Wifi and webbrowsing, but I don't have to worry about amazingly large libraries of POS apps and have a lot more calendar options (like actually having those different colored calendars show up in the Treo) and a sweet keyboard.

Oh and the Palm support in iSync has never been any good anyway.
post #38 of 51
if anything, Apple is doing Palm a favor by dropping support. If that becomes a final motive for people to upgrade their aging device, surely some of them will buy a Pre. I doubt that has anything to do with it though. Supporting Palm devices isn't as much of a boon as it used to be.

Anyway, Missing Sync was always better than the native Palm isync plugin.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

The only people they're smacking down are their customers. Looks like I won't be upgrading to Snow Leopard any time soon and I might have to rethink my iPhone plans when my contract upgrade comes in december. Very Jobs like to take it out on the users.

You must be joking. I'd rather throw away my entire collection of Palm OS products for the chance to use Snow Leopard.

Honestly, Palm is not someone worth supporting, saving, or crying about. Honestly I hope Apple eventually puts Palm out of business, then sues them for being thieves.
post #40 of 51
I used to have Tungsten T2 and then I bought iPhone and never looked back...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple drops Palm OS HotSync conduit from Snow Leopard