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Upcoming Apple tablet is No. 1 priority of Steve Jobs - report - Page 3

post #81 of 212
I really hope the tablet will work closely with Apple TV as a kind of remote and keyboard that will also allow you to surf the Internet from your comfy chair. That would definitely encourage me to buy one.
post #82 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.

I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.

I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.

Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.

Thank you for this response. Some people simply cannot understand the difference between "we" and "me."
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post #83 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.

With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?

In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.

A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.

you just said 13" is as small as you should go for a laptop. How do you know smaller doesn't work? Because you have seen what happens when it goes smaller.

In this case, you haven't seen the reverse, what happens when an iPod touch goes larger and has 3G or faster networking built in. I think it'll make an awesome laptop alternative. It'll be a heck of a lot lighter and easier to use than the pervasive netbooks on the market.

And from your other post, why do you keep suggesting a $900 price. It'll be in the $400 to $500 ballpark plus a data plan. And the biggest issue Apple will have is they won't be able to make them fast enough.
post #84 of 212
It takes a fanatic like Jobs to make things happen. Just imagine if a blowhard like Ballmer was running the show.

Jobs has a track record. Let him do it his way and it will revolutionize the market. We can already see Dell and other losers trying to market one a year from now.
post #85 of 212
Apple learned its lessons from the Newton and the Cube. The Newton was a great product but 1. Was not fully developed and 2. Was released far ahead of its time. Now, when Apple enters a market, it is to re-design and invigorate it with new life. I didn't even want an mp3 player until Apple entered the market. Everything else was junk. Apple has turned the smartphone market from and elitist business user e-mail phone into something everyone wants. The smatr phone markethas seen an insurgence with regular consumera that could not have been fathomed without Apple. You can bet your brass penny that Apple knows what it is doing with the tablet and that every other tablet and umpc etc that has come before will be forgotten. And now I leave you with one of the truest quotes from the Great Steve Jobs.

"...people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
BusinessWeek, May 25 1998
post #86 of 212
Yes I will buy an iTablet, no I will not get rid of my Newton, I use it to this very day for taking notes in meetings and I have actually had people think this was new technology, PC weenies of course.
post #87 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.

I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.

I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.

Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.

One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.

I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.

The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.

-Clive
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post #88 of 212
Not sure why we're talking about the Newton here exactly, but the problem with this product was that it was half-baked in its first two releases. The handwriting recognition was too iffy to be of any use. It was literally comically bad (remember the Doonsbury strips making fun of the Newton? -- that was a painful). Apple finally got it right with the third model, but too late to salvage its reputation, which Steve didn't have any interest in doing anyway.
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post #89 of 212
I was talking about the Newton to illustrate that Apple has come a long way since then and their half baked product releases are no longer. When Apple finally decides to release the tablet, many of us will be left wondering how we ever lived without it.
post #90 of 212
Apple should take the lessons they have learned from the iPhone, Macbook Air and plastic Macbook and make a netbook for $500 that isn't a pile of junk.

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post #91 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.

I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.

The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.

-Clive

You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.
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post #92 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

some of your criticism are a bit odd.

"Movies stored in the form of relatively small files? Kiss that good bye" - because nobody would want a larger, HD screen when they are watching a movie.

Higher res = more space for the movie. His point is accurate on that score.

Quote:
portability? It's certainly as portable as a netbook, which sell like crazy despite their awful keyboards, tiny trackpads, etc Why are things that small even using the same UI as a desktop computer? Certainly there is a better way.

The difference is pocketability. For a large touch you'd want it to be PSP sized...not netbook sized.

If you're netbook sized then a keyboard is useful and the 10" keyboards aren't that bad.

A 10" touch would be around the size of a steno notepad (or largish eBook) which is portable but it is something you have to carry around.

Quote:
price? I guess you missed the part where unlike the iPod touch, this is supposed to be subsidized by verizon?

Then it's DOA. I'm not going to pay Verizon $30 a month to have an apple tablet on top of my iPhone bill.

Quote:
Low price, light, portable, HD quality, long battery life, large amount of memory, GPS, built in 3G or better networking, safari, email, games, movies, etc, etc. This thing will sell like crazy.

Low price? No. I'd say $600+ minimum.
Portable? Sure, but not pocketable.
HD Quality? 720p at best. There is no need (and likely aren't any) for 10" 1920x180 panels. I'll be happy if it's better than 1024x600. 1366x768 would be great.
Long battery life? Maybe if it is ARM based.
Built in 3G? Maybe, but I wouldn't want it. I'm on AT&T and Xohm/Clearwire. This should be at most a BTO option.
post #93 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.

With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?

In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.

A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.

Is a book a handheld thing? Apparently not if it needs to be less than 5 inches on the diagonal! If you need a small 'connected' device, get an iPhone but if you want a 'universal' reader device with beautifully scaleable print to cater for different eyesight that can also act as a multifunctional device like the iPhone and yet maybe have a user-facing camera for video conferencing etc; now there really is excellent potential in that.
post #94 of 212
The tablet can definitely survive with only having a multi-touch keyboard simply because we already have an incredibly slim bluetooth keyboard that you can pull out for more intensive typing.

I just hope the damn thing is rugged. People are careful with laptops and usually position them on a surface, and the iphone is small enough to hold firmly. But such a tablet would be difficult to operate unless it was braced on some surface. Chances are it will have an accelerometer, so i can only hope it doesn't develop a wii remote syndrome.
post #95 of 212
steve, please, please do not make a tablet like the others. We need something like napkins, engineer can draw the design on it, a small enough that can be pull out any time to record our flash of genius. Not those cold flat large booklets you can't even draw a line straight, less to do shade, lighting effect. We need the canvas of da Vinci with his tool set. We need the 3d projection of Michelangelo. ;-). We do not ask much, just the standard of Apple.
post #96 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.

If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.

Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.

-Clive
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post #97 of 212
Bring back the Newton!
post #98 of 212
I'll remain skeptical until an apple tablet is actually released. Tablet rumors have been non-stop for like 15 years now.

This particular tablet rumor will be proven true or false. Which of course will be followed by rabid chest pounding, as if it took a genius to make a prediction one way or another.

At this point, my money is still on the side of skeptics. But of course it wouldn't be surprising if a tablet did materialize. It has to at some point. When it does, I predict that it will have to be on the price level of the iPhone in order to succeed. Since the tablet form factor is non-optimal for the vast majority of tasks, it will be an auxiliary computing device and price will be critical. People can do without auxiliary devices at this point in time. They're luxury items.
post #99 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.

Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.

-Clive

I see that's where we differ in opinion. I would expect the OS to be derived from iPhone OS for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost, Apple can't ensure that third party developers will develop touch friendly interfaces on their programs if they are written for a desktop OS. With iPhone OS touch friendly will be a given. Apple is huge on the user experience and I don't think a desktop operating system will provide a satisfactory user experience as long as the primary means of input is a mouse a keyboard.
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post #100 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyko View Post

I was talking about the Newton to illustrate that Apple has come a long way since then and their half baked product releases are no longer. When Apple finally decides to release the tablet, many of us will be left wondering how we ever lived without it.

Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.
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post #101 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.

Haven't all forms been predicted? For at least a few decades even!

A touch screen pocket computer wasn't innovative at all in regard to form. Neither would be a tablet of any particular size. Heck, even the iPhone's interface wasn't that innovative either.

The astounding part was the level of success that Apple had in selling a combination of these known technologies. Apple revolutionized the pocket computer/mobile phone industry... but did so with rather non-revolutionary technologies.

In my mind, the question is whether apple could do the same with a tablet. IMHO, not yet. People were already rabidly buying phones and smart phones. The market was clearly already in existence and primed for growth. Tablets, despite being around for many many years, are barely being sold at all. The form factor, unlike pocket computers / phones, simply isn't as optimal for most tasks.
post #102 of 212
For a 10" screen I really would like a keyboard.

Wonder if they could make it both touch-responsive and key-responsive. Maybe they could have the keyboard slide out and flex forward (design that some phones have).

It sounds like Apple doesn't want to be a "me-too" netbook lemming but netbooks are hot sellers right now. They have long battery life and they travel really well.

The touchpad product will do better if it's well under $800 (make it a distinct price range away from the cheapest MacBook) and give it some kind of attached keyboard -- maybe a keyboard that can be smartly hidden away for people who really only want touch interface.

I've been wrong before (e.g. who will pay the same price for a green or blue nano that they'd pay for a black nano with twice the memory). Guess we'll see.
post #103 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I see that's where we differ in opinion. I would expect the OS to be derived from iPhone OS for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost, Apple can't ensure that third party developers will develop touch friendly interfaces on their programs if they are written for a desktop OS. With iPhone OS touch friendly will be a given. Apple is huge on the user experience and I don't think a desktop operating system will provide a satisfactory user experience as long as the primary means of input is a mouse a keyboard.

This thought has crossed my mind, but in the end I keep asking myself what scenarios would cause one to buy a tablet over an iPhone / iPod Touch? The larger screen? For what? Productivity? Watching movies? Browsing the web? While I'd certainly admit there's plenty of room for growth (no pun intended) in those areas on the iPhone/iPod Touch, I feel as though in order to distinguish it enough from just being "a big iPod" the compromise would have to end up more on the side of being Mac-like than being iPhone-like...

But then again, maybe people are just looking for a "big iPod." As someone with a prosumer mindset, what I think makes sense is becoming less and less of what Apple actually ends up implementing, so who knows?

Good banter. Good banter, indeed.

-Clive
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post #104 of 212
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Originally Posted by benny-boy View Post

Google "conway's law"

Okay, did. Interesting, but I am not clear how that relates directly to my ruminations. Unless it's to bolster my informal hypothesis that great products (=art) can only result from the presence in the system of a great artist (=Steve). Help me out.
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post #105 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

you just said 13" is as small as you should go for a laptop. How do you know smaller doesn't work? Because you have seen what happens when it goes smaller.

In this case, you haven't seen the reverse, what happens when an iPod touch goes larger and has 3G or faster networking built in. I think it'll make an awesome laptop alternative. It'll be a heck of a lot lighter and easier to use than the pervasive netbooks on the market.

And from your other post, why do you keep suggesting a $900 price. It'll be in the $400 to $500 ballpark plus a data plan. And the biggest issue Apple will have is they won't be able to make them fast enough.

Plus a data plan? Here in Canada that's a problem because our data plans cost a small fortune. This is supposed to be a good thing?

Look, netbooks, flawed though they may be, are a Godsend to a lot of students who really don't have much cash to work with and who like the idea of a very portable device like your typical netbook. Frankly, the shortcomings of netbooks are greatly exaggerated. They do serve a purpose and that Apple can't offer any improvement on the formula on account of they can't deliver any better an experience at a similar price point, well that's just a segment that Apple can't participate in. It's that simple.
post #106 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Haven't all forms been predicted? For at least a few decades even!

I guess. But I don't recall anyone accurately predicting how the iPhone actually turned out, so that should serve as a lesson to us. I'm hearing what sounds to me like contradictory statements. The concept that they haven't done a tablet computer yet being taken as evidence that they probably won't any time soon really strikes me as wrong, since we know the last two blockbuster products from Apple went through years of development before they became products. Apple will release this beast when they think they've got something nobody else has, when they believe it's sexy as hell, and defines a new product niche they can exploit -- and not before, if Steve has anything to do with it. The evidence suggests they are getting close.
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post #107 of 212
You don't remember people predicting a touch screen phone? I seem to remember tons of those predictions, along with click wheel, T9, stylus augmented, and qwerty predictions.

Also, I don't think anyone is basing their "tablets are unlikely" argument soley on "apple hasn't ever sold a tablet". Seems more like a strawman to me.

As for Apple getting close to releasing a tablet... I'd say the newton was close as well.

But yeah, i get where you're coming from. Technology is advancing and the iPhone interface is one more piece of the puzzle.

I see the form factor as the biggest reason why tablets aren't popular. Technology can't change the form factor unless perhaps we figure in a far fetched digital-scroll scenario. Tablets forgo a physical keyboard yet still can't be put in a pocket. Unless humans undergo rapid evolution, I predict that tablets will always be limited to auxiliary/limited use computers or computers for specific niche professions. Those niches are significant, but relatively small compared to the size of the entire computing industry.
post #108 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

Steve jobs is not omnipotent.

Steve jobs does not decide everything at Apple

Steve jobs is brilliant but there are also brilliant people at Microsoft (God only knows why they are there...)

That in itself does not make a brilliant company.

It is the culture, ethos and management at Apple that allows great things to happen. that is the fundamental reason. not one man - Steve Jobs.

If steve Jobs were not at the helm Apple would continue to be brilliant until that culture, ethos and management evaporated.

Apple's ethos is about being critical (as in to critique) and to not succumb to mediocrity and this is where Steve Jobs has been instrumental in instilling that culture in to this company. Without that Apple would be generally mediocre just like MS. Jonathon Ive would not be able to deliver fantastic industrial design without that culture.

Steve Jobs does not make the TV ads, nor does he specify the finish on the aluminium on macs, or figure out how to make a consistent GUI.

He more than likely critiques a lot of work at Apple.

Steve is directly responsible for the ethos of the company and critical hires who he entrusts to pass on that ethos to every person they subsequently hire beneath them at all levels.

Steve left the company in great shape when he was recovering and no doubt they would continue to make market leading products in established markets for Apple.

Steve is brilliant at creating market penetration of new products for Apple. Once done he moves on and does come back to sign off on all their products aesthetic appeal while relying on his incredibly talented staff to manage the engineering and marketing.
post #109 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

You don't remember people predicting a touch screen phone? I seem to remember tons of those predictions, along with click wheel, T9, stylus augmented, and qwerty predictions.

A touch screen phone does not make an iPhone. No one predcted what the iPhone would be. Half of those touch screen phone ideas had a clickwheel on the back because the iPhone had to simply be an iPod+phone and iPods came with clickwheels. This just shows how narrow sighted we are. We can't conceptuallize new ideas, we just modify and ocmbine existing ones. An Apple tablet will probably not be anything like any of us visualized. Except me of course

Quote:
I see the form factor as the biggest reason why tablets aren't popular. Technology can't change the form factor unless perhaps we figure in a far fetched digital-scroll scenario. Tablets forgo a physical keyboard yet still can't be put in a pocket. Unless humans undergo rapid evolution, I predict that tablets will always be limited to auxiliary/limited use computers or computers for specific niche professions. Those niches are significant, but relatively small compared to the size of the entire computing industry.

I see the lack of a proper touch OS and lack of an enticing purpose have doomed past tablets. These are both obstacles I think Apple can overcome. I agree that tablets will remain auxiliary computers for the time being, but please consider that netbooks generally fall into the same category. Most people don't buy them as a primary computer. The tablet has a large potential market to draw from: netbooks, ebooks, education, business, entertainment, etc. And draw from it Apple will.
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post #110 of 212
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Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I respectfully, disagree. The guy in charge sets the tone of the company and that's Steve Jobs. One of the elements is he has been able to corral the 'nerds' (no disrespect intended) that write the sw and design the hardware and make them produce high quality usable products, like the iPhone. Just look at the crap the other companies were producing and getting a way with before the iPhone. Think MS mobile, Symbian, Motorola, and Palm, RIM. They were making so much money and yet were satisfied with substandard user experiences mainly to their clumsy and second rate software and hardware.

actually you "respectfully" agree with me that "The guy in charge sets the tone of the company and that's Steve Jobs. One of the elements is he has been able to corral the 'nerds''.

it's the same with Ive. He does not design everything. He has a huge team around him. I actually know what I am talking about here as a designer. It is never a one man show.

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post #111 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Steve is directly responsible for the ethos of the company and critical hires who he entrusts to pass on that ethos to every person they subsequently hire beneath them at all levels.

Steve left the company in great shape when he was recovering and no doubt they would continue to make market leading products in established markets for Apple.

Steve is brilliant at creating market penetration of new products for Apple. Once done he moves on and does come back to sign off on all their products aesthetic appeal while relying on his incredibly talented staff to manage the engineering and marketing.


yes steve is responsible for the ethos..... I said that.

no steve does not create the market penetration. He does not personally staff retail centers and so on. It is Apple's staff that does that with Steve overseeing.

Steve is brilliant but it takes more than one person.

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post #112 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

You don't remember people predicting a touch screen phone? I seem to remember tons of those predictions, along with click wheel, T9, stylus augmented, and qwerty predictions.

I remember all kinds of guesses, but I also remember how much surprise the actual products generated when they were released.

Quote:
Also, I don't think anyone is basing their "tablets are unlikely" argument soley on "apple hasn't ever sold a tablet". Seems more like a strawman to me.

Perhaps not solely, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I used to be an iTablet hopeful... then I woke up and smelled reality.

This is Apple we're talking about. Since when have they given us anything we actually wanted? We've begged for a headless iMac. We've begged for an xMac. We've begged for a DVR. We've begged for a Tablet. We've begged for an iTunes subscription service.

The only "prayer" Apple has answered was for the iPhone, and we begged for nearly a decade before we finally got it... and even then we had to beg for an open platform, which we still don't have.

Trust me, boys and girls. We won't be getting a Tablet any time soon.

Quote:
As for Apple getting close to releasing a tablet... I'd say the newton was close as well.

But yeah, i get where you're coming from. Technology is advancing and the iPhone interface is one more piece of the puzzle.

I see the form factor as the biggest reason why tablets aren't popular. Technology can't change the form factor unless perhaps we figure in a far fetched digital-scroll scenario. Tablets forgo a physical keyboard yet still can't be put in a pocket. Unless humans undergo rapid evolution, I predict that tablets will always be limited to auxiliary/limited use computers or computers for specific niche professions. Those niches are significant, but relatively small compared to the size of the entire computing industry.

Well, I think we should know now how Apple operates. They're always going to try to redefine categories, not chase existing categories. I expect the final product will include some of the features many have guessed at, but I am also expecting that the total package will exceed these expectations.
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post #113 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

you just said 13" is as small as you should go for a laptop. How do you know smaller doesn't work? Because you have seen what happens when it goes smaller.

In this case, you haven't seen the reverse, what happens when an iPod touch goes larger and has 3G or faster networking built in. I think it'll make an awesome laptop alternative. It'll be a heck of a lot lighter and easier to use than the pervasive netbooks on the market.

I think a device that expands on the Touch is a logical next step for Apple. I'm not arguing against that. What I question, though, is the validity of that next step taking the Touch up to a 10-inch screen.
Keep in mind that going bigger causes the device to cost significantly more, not only because of the cost of the larger screen, but also because other aspects of the device will require upgrading. To take advantage of the much bigger screen you have to significantly increase the size of video files on account of a 10-inch screen using the Touch's current resolution would look rather awful. So now you need more hard drive capacity, more processing to handle bigger files, and a lot more battery capacity to power everything. Also, files created for the Touch will not scale up all that well on a 10-inch higher res screen.

In contrast, go up in screen size far more modestly and many of those issues are dramatically scaled back. In that scenario all that video content originally created for use on the Touch is still quite decent-looking on a 5-inch or 6-inch screen. The portability, though compromised, is not nearly as compromised as it would be on a device with a 10-inch screen.

There's another point to consider. You hold a hand-held device like the Touch or this proposed product much closer to you and as a result the perceived size of the screen changes. At the distance that this unit would be from you, 10 inches would be overkill. A 32-inch monitor looks not much different at about 3 feet away as a hand-held inches from your eyes would appear with a screen significantly smaller than 10 inches. Long before you get to 10 inches such a device would be akin to watching a movie on a big-screen TV.

I can and have given numerous reasons why a larger screen comes at a price. It's not a case of bigger is invariably better. Overkill is what has made the competition fall so far behind Apple and now, strangely, there seems to be this belief that Apple, despite having great success with a less-is-more philosophy, will suddenly reverse course and behave like the competition it has left so far behind. Where's the logic in that? Isn't this exactly the sort of irrational, ill-conceived approach that Jobs has steered Apple clear of all these years?

One unconfirmed rumor sees the light of day claiming Apple is getting its hands on a ton of 10-inch screens and many treat it like gospel. But something doesn't add up. If there is a new touch-based device in the pipeline, a 10-inch Touch likely isn't it.
post #114 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.

Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.

It is not hard to imagine a tablet-friendly Mac OS X based on Snow Leopard.

But that's not the problem.

The problem is the existing Mac OS X software base. Pre-existing software is expecting to find a keyboard, a mouse and a large screen. Current Mac software is simply not designed to run under a whole new interface. Many programs would break. Most would be clunky. None would be designed to fit the new form-factor. In short, they would suck.

Creating an OS with a new interface is reasonable.
Expecting the current (and older) versions of Photoshop, Maya and Word to run perfectly without modification is not reasonable.

Apple are not going to launch a whole new platform and then turn away as users crash and burn their software on it. If we learned anything from the Origami Project it was that.

The success of the iPhone came about because the interface and the software was built specifically for the form factor.

My guess is this device (if it is real) will only run apps from the app store. And all of those apps will be purpose-built for this form-factor.

C.
post #115 of 212
Quote:

Very nice! I do like visual rumors!
Did you do this one?
Either way, thank you!
post #116 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenwaves View Post

Thank god we have Steve to push the creative process at Apple.
And thank god I don't work for him!

I would love to work for him: 1) it means you are one of the top people of your field, 2) means you are making good money, 3) I'd like to be driven and part of such innovation and quality products... would learn a lot.

Once went there for lunch with a manger who knew someone who worked there, it was like walking in Shangri-La, the cafeteria alone was incredible. Several years later I interviewed at Apple, got a second interview and everything, but unfortunately (for me) they canceled the position.

I've heard stories about Steve Jobs and how difficult and demanding he can be, but I think most accept it as part of the culture and know he's the spoon that stirs the soup. He keeps them well employed and working for one of the top companies with high stock value and awesome products, from what I hear its a great place to work.
post #117 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

Steve jobs is not omnipotent.

Steve jobs does not decide everything at Apple

Steve jobs is brilliant but there are also brilliant people at Microsoft (God only knows why they are there...)

It is the culture, ethos and management at Apple that allows great things to happen. that is the fundamental reason. not one man - Steve Jobs.

If steve Jobs were not at the helm Apple would continue to be brilliant until that culture, ethos and management evaporated.

He more than likely critiques a lot of work at Apple.

I agree to some extent, but when he was kicked out in the 90's Apple almost went bankrupt. The stock was down to chump change, people were saying it was over for Apple. Then Jobs returned, they very soon after started making money and turned profitable again. Now with a stock price well over $150, hard to believe in just 1999 or so it was in the teens ($18-20).

Now people can argue this or that, but it is fact - with Jobs = success + innovation, without Jobs = failure, confusion, laziness, no vision or plan.

Jobs does not come up with all the ideas or make the commercials, but I guarantee you he see's, approves of, and perfects everything before it becomes public. And he is smart enough to hire top people to help him carry his vision and help him innovate. A leader does not have to do everything and a truly great leader (CEO, Founder) is smart enough to hire people around him to make him/her better and carry their vision and add to it.

Jobs is Apple and I worry when he does leave for good, Apple will slowly revert back to 1998 and being lost in the fog. I am not looking forward to that time, because we already allegedly have some employee's crying about things were "easier" with him gone these past months, that make the future seem scary. They need him to drive them and demand, sadly the inmates can't run the asylum on their own.
post #118 of 212
I ve just realized why Steve doesn't ask the people what they want in terms of new products and leads with his vision, because a lot if people want what they have and can understand and can't envision anything new. If they did they d all be leaders. But some people do and that's encouraging.

The iBook as I like to call the new tablet will revolutionasize computing and everyone will be hot on their heels to copy it. The book form that has been trusted and true for thousand hundred years will finally take the digital form it has to take and the little apple from Cupertino will again be responsible for this revolution.
post #119 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

I think a device that expands on the Touch is a logical next step for Apple. I'm not arguing against that. What I question, though, is the validity of that next step taking the Touch up to a 10-inch screen.
Keep in mind that going bigger causes the device to cost significantly more, not only because of the cost of the larger screen, but also because other aspects of the device will require upgrading. To take advantage of the much bigger screen you have to significantly increase the size of video files on account of a 10-inch screen using the Touch's current resolution would look rather awful. So now you need more hard drive capacity, more processing to handle bigger files, and a lot more battery capacity to power everything. Also, files created for the Touch will not scale up all that well on a 10-inch higher res screen.

I know you were quoting someone that said a 10" iPod touch would be great, so I understand why you took it so literally, but is there any reason why apps would have to run full screened? Most apps don't need to be bigger than they are now. I could easily see Apple keeping them windowed on a bigger iPhone OS platform. Then you could do fun stuff like rotating the individual apps to landscape with a two finger twist without rotating the whole thing. The apps that need full screen could be updated (and they would be if there was money to be made) with a tablet only version that was larger. I don't really understand a lot of your complaints, as they are simply describing what would happen with a larger tablet. It would cost more, it would have a more powerful processor, it would have a larger hard drive, and it would have a larger battery capacity. I don't understand why those would be bad or unexpected, extra space means more room for internal components.

As I've said in other threads, when I say think the tablet will run iPhone OS, I don't mean that it will run iPhone OS unchanged. Tablet running iPhone OS does not necessarily mean big iPod/iPhone. It just means that it will be starting with a very touch friendly base, code optimized for low power processors, and a large base of apps, some of which will probably need or get updates for the tablet.

Additionally I see a tablet running a variant of iPhone OS as a testing ground for features that will eventually make it into the iPhone. Multitasking and Safari with flash would likely be included with a tablet as it would have the processing power and battery life needed to meet Apples standards. They would then be given to the iPhone when it met similar levels in performance. Multitasking would actually work better with iPhone OS as the apps would be designed to work within the processor limitations. That wouldn't be the case with OSX. My 2c.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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post #120 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I ve just realized why Steve doesn't ask the people what they want in terms of new products and leads with his vision, because a lot if people want what they have and can understand and can't envision anything new.

You can't want what hasn't been invented yet.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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