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Apple to retain, redesign plastic MacBook family - Page 3

post #81 of 126
The white MacBook is a design classic, and to this day, is still one of my all-time favourite Macs!
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #82 of 126
Quote:
Apple's online store indicates that the white MacBook is outselling all other Macs with the exception of the iMac, while similar rankings from high-volume resellers like MacMall also consistently place it in the top 10 best selling Apple-related products overall, ahead of all desktop-based Macs.


The snow white Mac's sell well because of their clean, smooth, white porcelain looks. Women and kids love them.


Johnathan Ive used to design toilets before becoming Steve jobs best friend and designer.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #83 of 126
Here in the UK, a white MB is £749, and an entry MBP is £899.

At those price points, Apple is still a more expensive purchase, especially for a potential switcher who can get a whole lot of notebooks for £500 or less. While I don't expect Apple to produce a netbook, neither do I see a tablet as an alternative fill in product. I think Apple would do really well with a MB priced at £5-600 point, without sacrificing their brand values. Then knock a further £50 of the entry MBP and the range sits well in price.

The market this would open to Apple would be huge, as consumers are now able to get a lot of hardware for considerably less than the Apple entry price point. Sure, none of it may be as good, but for a huge number of consumers... it's good enough.

The mini needs price adjustment too. Here in the UK the 2GB model hits the store at an unimpressive £649. Far too expensive. They need to get the range starting at £399 at least. There is a need for a headless macintosh, but the last revamp pushed the UK price too high.
post #84 of 126
Yeah, make them lighter; kids carry them, not Governors.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #85 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The snow white Mac's sell well because of their clean, smooth, white porcelain looks. Women and kids love them.

Johnathan Ive used to design toilets before becoming Steve jobs best friend and designer.

The last line isn't really helping. In the past, I think I've referred to the color as "institutional white" in the pejorative sense. I hadn't found much information on his job designing toilets, but that explains both versions of the iBook.

How do you know if they're best friends?
post #86 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Actually that is as simple as pie. First Intel does shrink its products, you have heard of process shrinks haven't you. This leads to higher integration which further allows Apple to shrink its products. As for batteries they have been improving by about 8 % a year.

That's fine as an evolution over the years. But they can't simply just make it smaller, otherwise they would. Everything would be miniscule.

This technological progress is no good when it comes to offering the same performance, today, in a smaller package at the same price.

Quote:
You don't have to believe me though as looking at the iPhone 3GS kinda proves the point. Here we have more than double the performance in the same package and it has a longer battery life.

Yes, the key being they couldn't offer that a year earlier because it wasn't possible.
BTW... I'm hoping Apple replaces my iPhone friday.... it is certainly MUCH shorter battery life but perhaps a fault.

Quote:
over-clock it a bit, there is a lot of head room especially in Intel processors.

You're saying that Apple should use smaller/slower processors, but overclock them, to get equivalent performance? I think that would be a Applecare nightmare....

Quote:
The trick to such a low cost device is to engineer simple PC boards with a minimal of I/O, get rid of space wasting devices like optical drives and 2.5" notebook drives. Apples biggest obstacle to being successful here is the reliance on Intel which really has mucked up the low power line up and Atom. Atom should have been delivered in an high integration version with everything but the GPU on board and they should have supported the use of dual core processors in laptops. The artificial constraints put on Atom have been a marketing boondoggle for Intel.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that Intel is artificially slowing down their processors.... that they could have been much faster at the same cost and price. I'm happy to accept Intel will make as much money as they can.... just not the rest.

Quote:
First the price of $599 isn't realistic at all. There simply isn't enough silicon in the device to justify the price point. I fully expect the unsubsidized price to drop a bit once Apple has a tablet on the market.

The iPhone does things that were impossible a couple of years ago. Is it really realistic to be able for us to say whether the price is realistic?

Fortunately - competition from Nokia, Palm etc helps to keep these things in line. Along with competition between AMD/Intel/ARM of course.

Quote:
As to that expensive contract I'm with you, I want carrier choice.

I just don't want a carrier at all. I understand how much that really costs! I already pay for a phone and data plan, let me tether my laptop or tablet to my phone. Tethering works great on the iPhone already.

Quote:
Beyond all that 16GB is no where near enough memory. This thing needs 128GB to start off on the right foot. I'm not kidding here at all. If you are going to use it mobile, for travel and such, buffering media is going to be a huge application for the device. Plus the reality that there is no perfection with respect to carriers, all of them have dead spots, usually in places where you might want to sit down and actually use a tablet.

I would like to see a tablet designed to run without net connection, seamlessly taking advantage when connections drift by to update caches, send/get mail, etc. It seems that everyone builds for either connected or standalone - rarely a combination.

But I think a good syncing system and online connections mean we can get by with 16GB too... unless it's a HD video device.
post #87 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

...First the price of $599 isn't realistic at all. There simply isn't enough silicon in the device to justify the price point...

You want carrier choice and a price drop?

I can go into any local mobile carrier and get the iPhone 3GS, unlocked, but the price will be £700 (or $1,138!) I don't think your view on what a realistic market price is quite matches Apple's.
post #88 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthletter View Post

Sorry to dissapoint you but Nvidia or ATI do not shrink full sized cards down especially for iMacs, iMacs use mobile video cards exactly the same as ones Alienware, Dell etc. use.

A fine example of you imagining how this could be done instead of looking at a teardown. Do you have any idea how much those custom cards would cost ? Apple cards use a custom BIOS to talk to Intel EFI but that is as custom as it gets.
Every Mac uses identical chipsets and boards to PCs. If anyone paid you $.02 for that they overpayed !

Why are you berating me? My talk of NVIDIA was not in reference to their 9400m GPUs, which are integrated with the motherboard and do not produce excessive heat. It was in reference to their GTS 150 card, which is not integrated, large, and requires much more heat dissipation capabilities. Even more so with an ATI 4850. I haven't been able to find a tear down of a high-end 24" iMac that sports either one of these to see how Apple fits the suckers in there (plus a heat sink and fan, mind you), hence my curiosity. I do have an idea how much custom cards cost, since all 3rd party manufacturers' graphics cards are customized in some way or other from the reference designs of NVIDIA or ATI (from the enclosure, to the heat sink & fan, all the way down to what type of capacitors are used). To suggest otherwise indicates you do not have knowledge of how graphics cards are manufactured. Whether it is "custom" in physical form or the BIOS, it's still a custom card. EVGA is one of the few 3rd party manufacturers out there that offers an NVIDIA 285 for Mac, and that card goes for $100 more than the exact same PC version, which isn't terribly surprising or different in terms of price, IMO. Also, iMacs do not use identical boards and chipsets as PCs. Graphics chipsets, yes. But look at the 20" iMac tear down over at iFixIt and tell me how any of those components (especially the logic board) are the same as what you would find inside a PC.
post #89 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthletter View Post

And yet you still have yet to explain your idea to replace it, strange that !

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Nothing is really obsolete until there is something that can actually replace it adequately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nearly a quarter century after I learned to type, my need for said skill has not diminished one bit... and I don't anticipate it ever lessening in my lifetime (save for a mind-reading computer unexpectedly appearing). The difference between dictation and accurate, direct typing is a gulf that will not be bridged with voice recognition software. Heck it can't even be bridged with a skilled secretary.

Sarcasm, my friends.

-Clive
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post #90 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Sarcasm, my friends.

-Clive

Well played.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #91 of 126
I don't believe that, I think the new MacBook will be the tablet.

Well not very a tablet but a macBook without keyboard, but with a multitouch screen. So a MacBook with two screen.

That's it
post #92 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Rapidly? You are kidding right? With the exception of the $99 iPhone 3G all of their products are still in the premium market. The economy has been in the tank for a year and this refresh won't see the light of day until sometime in 2010. And you call that rapid?

Apple has been slow to push prices down. No one can deny that.

They decided to wait and see how their lineup stood up to the recession and only react if sales tanked. As sales have stood up pretty well up to this point, all they done is inch prices down (when compared to competitors) and reconfigure certain products. This is logical up to a point but IMO they have missed a golden opportunity (pre Windows 7) to gain market share by pushing prices further down and entering the netbook market.

Apple could easily produce a netbook that wasn't 'junk' (in Steve Jobs terminology) for $499. And I mean really easily, so SJ isn't to be believed on that one. There are other reasons why Apple doesn't want to get into the netbook world (at least yet).

Apple has been fortunate in that sales have held up rather well and no doubt the ability to put OSX on some netbooks without major issues is a good thing for some users too.
post #93 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

Apple has been slow to push prices down. No one can deny that.

They decided to wait and see how their lineup stood up to the recession and only react if sales tanked. As sales have stood up pretty well up to this point, all they done is inch prices down (when compared to competitors) and reconfigure certain products. This is logical up to a point but IMO they have missed a golden opportunity (pre Windows 7) to gain market share by pushing prices further down and entering the netbook market.

Apple could easily produce a netbook that wasn't 'junk' (in Steve Jobs terminology) for $499. And I mean really easily, so SJ isn't to be believed on that one. There are other reasons why Apple doesn't want to get into the netbook world (at least yet).

Apple has been fortunate in that sales have held up rather well and no doubt the ability to put OSX on some netbooks without major issues is a good thing for some users too.

Netbook market share isn't really worth having from Apples perspective, given the low profit margins. I would anticipate the mythical tablet to be Apples attempt to snag netbook buyers, however the tablet will be priced higher than a netbook to get it into the profit margin range that Apple is comfortable at. They will be able to do that because it will be a tablet, not a netbook.
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post #94 of 126
IMO Apple could squeeze a healthly margin out of a $500 netbook and use it as another stepping stone to get people to switch and give established mac users the option of a super compact runaround machine.

There are many PC users that balk at Apple's current pricing for laptops but that might be willing to go for an Apple netbook as a first taste of the apple. It's clear there is a market for netbbooks.
post #95 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

What Apple needs is a light and small MacBook, like the Sony Vaio P Series

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644608896

No more than 600 g or so (the lighter, the better) and as much pocketable as possible. With video-out for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The MacBook Air is too heavy, too large and too port crippled!

1. If your aim is Keynote and Powerpoint presentations - wait until an app is available for the iPhone/iPod Touch; in the meantime, turn all of your slides into photos, create an album and run a manually advanced slideshow. Video out is already on today's iPhones and iPod Touches.

2. The MacBook Air is not "too heavy" by any stretch of the imagination.
post #96 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

lol.

Typing is obsolete. I am ashamed to be living in the 21st century and STILL banging the digits of my appendages against a primitive rectangular grid of tiny boxes with symbols on them.

How neolithic.

-Clive

Blasphemy!

Edit: Fine, you want to stop typing?

Get a MacBook Wheel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
post #97 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

The white MacBook is a design classic, and to this day, is still one of my all-time favourite Macs!

+1. It's nice seeing the white plastic being carried on to the iPhones ( 3G/3GS ). Cracking is not a nice thing though.. \
post #98 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The snow white Mac's sell well because of their clean, smooth, white porcelain looks. Women and kids love them.


Johnathan Ive used to design toilets before becoming Steve jobs best friend and designer.

It's Jonathan Ive, not Johnathan. And if you say that, I guess some people are using Toiletbooks ...
post #99 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Good. Chop another $100 off the price, too.

So now Macs become more affordable and people buy it, only to complain that for such a price they could buy a better PC with more stuff. All BS ( Not the poster ). A PC is incomparable to a Mac. It's like comparing a Mercedes to a Toyota. 2 different leagues. 1 is set apart by design, high quality, thus premium-priced while another is for the masses and has significantly lower quality and not so stellar design. Apple has never targeted for large marketshare, but it's products are so stellar people want them and pay through the roof for them, thus increasing marketshare for Apple. Price chops are good,but not too much IMO.
post #100 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Apple should redesign the White MacBook to look more like a plastic MacBook air
drop the screen size to 10-12"
drop the optical drive
drop the price to $799

(one model available in five colors)

This would get a MacBook/MacBook Pro user near the ever-increasing Netbook price range and save Mac users some weight when lugging things around.
post #101 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Apple should redesign the White MacBook to look more like a plastic MacBook air
drop the screen size to 10-12"
drop the optical drive
drop the price to $799

(one model available in five colors)

Wow, so they make the MacBook Air plastic and even smaller and the price is cut in two? Funny that. You're sort of not thinking that one through.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #102 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Apple should redesign the White MacBook to look more like a plastic MacBook air
drop the screen size to 10-12"
drop the optical drive
drop the price to $799

(one model available in five colors)

I need one! Now!
post #103 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

1. If your aim is Keynote and Powerpoint presentations - wait until an app is available for the iPhone/iPod Touch; in the meantime, turn all of your slides into photos, create an album and run a manually advanced slideshow. Video out is already on today's iPhones and iPod Touches.

Very good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

2. The MacBook Air is not "too heavy" by any stretch of the imagination.

I disagree. The emphasis on the MacBook Air design was on the appearance of thin more than on actually thin and not at all on small or lightweight. I would much prefer a MacBook Air that was smaller and lighter -- if not quite so thin looking. A lot of weight and bulk was added to achieve the very thin tapered edges.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #104 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I disagree. The emphasis on the MacBook Air design was on the appearance of thin more than on actually thin and not at all on small or lightweight. I would much prefer a MacBook Air that was smaller and lighter -- if not quite so thin looking. A lot of weight and bulk was added to achieve the very thin tapered edges.

A lot of weight to make the tapered edges? I doubt the taper adds much weight, maybe a couple ounces, thin aluminum doesn't weigh much. Besides, the way the edges curve, it might have allowed the shell to be made thinner.
post #105 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

A lot of weight to make the tapered edges? I doubt the taper adds much weight, maybe a couple ounces, thin aluminum doesn't weigh much.

A couple of ounces is 5-10%. I would have preferred my MacBook Air to be a couple of ounces lighter, a couple of centimeters smaller across the diagonal, and of uniform 15-19 millimeter thickness, rather than the aesthetically gorgeous tapered design.

Anyway, the real killer for me that required me to trade my MacBook Air for a unibody MacBook was the need for 4GB of ram. I despise having to lug around an optical drive which belongs in the 20th century. I've never, ever used the damned optical drive and would have been happy to connect the external optical drive which I bought for the MacBook Air (and have never, ever used) to install Snow Leopard.

As soon as Apple offer a laptop with 4GB and no optical drive, I'm buying one regardless of other specs.
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post #106 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

A couple of ounces is 5-10%. I would have preferred my MacBook Air to be a couple of ounces lighter, a couple of centimeters smaller across the diagonal, and of uniform 15-19 millimeter thickness, rather than the aesthetically gorgeous tapered design.

Anyway, the real killer for me that required me to trade my MacBook Air for a unibody MacBook was the need for 4GB of ram. I despise having to lug around an optical drive which belongs in the 20th century. I've never, ever used the damned optical drive and would have been happy to connect the external optical drive which I bought for the MacBook Air (and have never, ever used) to install Snow Leopard.

As soon as Apple offer a laptop with 4GB and no optical drive, I'm buying one regardless of other specs.

Making a couple ounces into "a lot of weight" stretches the credibility. While the taper seems not so ideal, making such a big fuss about the little bit of weight and size it is on the absurd side.
post #107 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Wow, so they make the MacBook Air plastic and even smaller and the price is cut in two? Funny that. You're sort of not thinking that one through.

I think he has thought it through and $700 to $800 bucks is just about right. Especially if you consider what you get in AIR. Apple should be able to put together a functional machine, actually more functional, in that price range. If they could get Intel to change their marketing restrictions on ATOM they could go even lower. In a real sense the tech is already there just that companies are not free to use it.

I bring up ATOM because of it's current low power profile but intel has other low power chips coming that would do the job very well when the price comes down. There are a lot of ways to a quality $700 laptop, the problem isn't with Apple but rather Intel.




Dave
post #108 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The snow white Mac's sell well because of their clean, smooth, white porcelain looks. Women and kids love them.

I think it's hilarious that you and others think White is somehow a color for girls and kids. I guess all those rappers that drive around in white SUVs are just a bunch of girly men. If you wear white underwear, do you buy them at Victoria's Secret? Are any of the walls in your house painted white?

White, like Black, is a completely neutral color. Assigning a gender to those colors is laughable.
post #109 of 126
Is it possible for the white MacBook to use a platic white unibody?

Should be easier to make than the aluminium, would look good, but would it be strong?
post #110 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I think it's hilarious that you and others think White is somehow a color for girls and kids. I guess all those rappers that drive around in white SUVs are just a bunch of girly men. If you wear white underwear, do you buy them at Victoria's Secret? Are any of the walls in your house painted white?

White, like Black, is a completely neutral color. Assigning a gender to those colors is laughable.

Same here. I don't see any gender problems with choosing black or white.
post #111 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by timbledum View Post

I need one! Now!

Why does everyone want multi-colored Apple stuff? It makes it look extremely cheap like those China toys. See, now only the iPod Nano is available on many colors. What about the rest?
post #112 of 126
Thought about the "tablet" design and how it might be sold again today... if anything, I think it might, MIGHT be possible they extend the iPod touch line to include larger versions... one optimized for magazine/newspaper/textbook-format reading, one slightly smaller for video (which would be somewhere between the current size and the larger format)... could breathe entirely new life into the whole iPod lineup. The would eliminate the re-branding issue (iTablet? yecchhh!) and extend the line to fill the gaps being created by Kindle and the like.

So, there could be a re-segmenting of product, thusly...

-iPod touch reader (for example)
-iPod touch video (for example)
-iPod touch
-Pod classic
-iPod nano
-iPod shuffle

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post #113 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Thought about the "tablet" design and how it might be sold again today... if anything, I think it might, MIGHT be possible they extend the iPod touch line to include larger versions... one optimized for magazine/newspaper/textbook-format reading, one slightly smaller for video (which would be somewhere between the current size and the larger format)... could breathe entirely new life into the whole iPod lineup. The would eliminate the re-branding issue (iTablet? yecchhh!) and extend the line to fill the gaps being created by Kindle and the like.

So, there could be a re-segmenting of product, thusly...

-iPod touch reader (for example)
-iPod touch video (for example)
-iPod touch
-Pod classic
-iPod shuffle

No... (5 chars)
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #114 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

No... (5 chars)

Who are twitboy and twitgirl? ... is this a Twitter-based story series?

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post #115 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Who are twitboy and twitgirl? ... is this a Twitter-based story series?

I was wondering if someone would spot that. If it was a twitter based story series that would have been very funny lol. Actually they are two twitter services I just launched (both dot COMs) with matching twitter accounts. I once had this idea, bla bla bla...
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #116 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I disagree. The emphasis on the MacBook Air design was on the appearance of thin more than on actually thin and not at all on small or lightweight. I would much prefer a MacBook Air that was smaller and lighter -- if not quite so thin looking. A lot of weight and bulk was added to achieve the very thin tapered edges.

Actually, that weight ("a lot?" seriously?) was added to make the shell rigid and flex-proof. If you take away the tapers, you have a much less robust case--unless you add even more weight back on to reinforce it.

The looks are just icing on the cake.
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post #117 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

My talk of NVIDIA was not in reference to their 9400m GPUs, which are integrated with the motherboard and do not produce excessive heat. It was in reference to their GTS 150 card, which is not integrated, large, and requires much more heat dissipation capabilities. Even more so with an ATI 4850. I haven't been able to find a tear down of a high-end 24" iMac that sports either one of these to see how Apple fits the suckers in there (plus a heat sink and fan, mind you), hence my curiosity.

If you look at iFixIt's 20" teardown, you can see a small gap right above the CPU heatsink. The older iMacs (ATI Radeon HD 2000 series) had a second heatsink there, which connected to a small sub-board which contained the GPU, attaching to a small peripheral slot (similar to a RAM slot) on the underside of the board. The discrete cards in the 24" iMac use a very similar graphics sub-card, while the 9400M is simply grafted to the logic board itself. When that second heatsink is installed with the GPU, it sits in-line with the CPU heatsink, allowing the CPU fan to dissipate both at once.

Here's a picture of the GT130 used in the iMac 24" (click for larger image):



I work at an Apple Authorized Service Provider, in case you're wondering how I know this.
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post #118 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karelia View Post

If you look at iFixIt's 20" teardown, you can see a small gap right above the CPU heatsink. The older iMacs (ATI Radeon HD 2000 series) had a second heatsink there, which connected to a small sub-board which contained the GPU, attaching to a small peripheral slot (similar to a RAM slot) on the underside of the board. The discrete cards in the 24" iMac use a very similar graphics sub-card, while the 9400M is simply grafted to the logic board itself. When that second heatsink is installed with the GPU, it sits in-line with the CPU heatsink, allowing the CPU fan to dissipate both at once.

Here's a picture of the GT130 used in the iMac 24" (click for larger image):



I work at an Apple Authorized Service Provider, in case you're wondering how I know this.

That's called a MXM card, by the way, and there are several standard sizes.
post #119 of 126
I hope Apple doesn't go back to plastic notebooks. The aluminum unibody notebooks are fine. Apple <> Dell.
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post #120 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

That's called a MXM card, by the way, and there are several standard sizes.

Ahh, that I was not aware of. I've only really worked on Apple hardware, and they don't label it as such.
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