or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Ted Kennedy dead tonight.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ted Kennedy dead tonight.

post #1 of 185
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...t.ted.kennedy/

love him or not the man had a long run in the Senate second only to senator Byrd. What do you think his death will mean for the short term? Obviously it means grief for those who loved him and I wish them comfort in this sad time. However, the nation will not stop for long. So, any thoughts on this subject? Or just on him in general?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #2 of 185
A man of privilege that showed that even the worst mistakes can be smoothed over by a rich family. On the whole he was principled and did some good in this work. RIP.
post #3 of 185
Good riddance.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #4 of 185
There is plenty to disagree with the late Senator, but you couldn't miss the sparkling wit that was a Kennedy family trademark. Just the loss of that will make the US Senate sessions a lot less interesting.
post #5 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

What a horrible collection of human beings we have here.

You're just noticing that?

Ted Kennedy ( Jack and Robert's brother ) was the last of the old guard. Early on in his career I thought he might run for president but I'm guessing Chappaquiddick and 2 assasinations put that aside. The Senate and the country have lost a great man. There are not many in the senate that can claim the same experience or influence. It's really hard to believe he's gone.


RIP.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #6 of 185
I only see one post here (post number 3) that is shockingly cold hearted, the others seem fair enough to me.

RIP.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #7 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

What a horrible collection of human beings we have here.

I wonder how much respect you would show to George W. Bush if he passed away.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #8 of 185
Flame removed - JL

Mandatory 10-day ban.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #9 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're just noticing that?

Ted Kennedy ( Jack and Robert's brother ) was the last of the old guard. Early on in his career I thought he might run for president but I'm guessing Chappaquiddick and 2 assasinations put that aside. The Senate and the country have lost a great man. There are not many in the senate that can claim the same experience or influence. It's really hard to believe he's gone.


RIP.

If you actually read the article I linked to you will find he did try to run for President.

What would you all say were his greatest accomplishments? I know about the drunk driving and the other things that he did that people hate him for (probably all of them anyhow), but what are the positive things he should be remembered for?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #10 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

If you actually read the article I linked to you will find he did try to run for President.

What would you all say were his greatest accomplishments? I know about the drunk driving and the other things that he did that people hate him for (probably all of them anyhow), but what are the positive things he should be remembered for?

Yes!....Noahj, he was a hugely accomplished man who inspired millions
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #11 of 185
Its amazing he lived as long as he did. The token Kennedy who actually lived into old age to die of natural causes?

RIP.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #12 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I wonder how much respect you would show to George W. Bush if he passed away.

I would imagine that most folks will show Bush the respect due to a deceased head of state, just like everyone did with Reagan. Regardless of what I think about the man and his disastrous administration, he was the President.

RIP Ted Kennedy.

The larger question is how this will affect the health care debate. It's not as if Kennedy was all that active since the inauguration, but his absence will surely be felt (and his vote). Does MA's governor appoint someone to fill his seat or does there have to be a special election?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #13 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I would imagine that most folks will show Bush the respect due to a deceased head of state, just like everyone did with Reagan. Regardless of what I think about the man and his disastrous administration, he was the President.

RIP Ted Kennedy.

The larger question is how this will affect the health care debate. It's not as if Kennedy was all that active since the inauguration, but his absence will surely be felt (and his vote). Does MA's governor appoint someone to fill his seat or does there have to be a special election?

A special election.

~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_269127.html
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #14 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes!....Noahj, he was a hugely accomplished man who inspired millions

So, nothing he should be remembered for? His legacy is that he was a drunk with no redeeming values? Anyone?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #15 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So, nothing he should be remembered for? His legacy is that he was a drunk with no redeeming values? Anyone?

My comment was covering a broad area, if you catch my drift.

Other than a few obvious things like healthcare and immigration, I personally know almost nothing about the guy. Sorry.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #16 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Good riddance.

My thoughts exactly.

Not about Ted, though. He was a great senator, despite some personal foibles.
post #17 of 185
He was very opposed to the Iraq War and was one of about 2 dozen Senators to vote against the Iraq War resolution.
post #18 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

My thoughts exactly..

It's only 10 days, he'll be back.
post #19 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

He was very opposed to the Iraq War and was one of about 2 dozen Senators to vote against the Iraq War resolution.

Ok, so he was opposed to the war and actually stood by that, but what did he do that actually made a difference since we obviously went to war without him? I saw some refrences to FMLA and him being involved in that. If he were not a senator, is there anything that would not otherwise have been accomplished?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #20 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Ok, so he was opposed to the war and actually stood by that, but what did he do that actually made a difference since we obviously went to war without him? I saw some refrences to FMLA and him being involved in that. If he were not a senator, is there anything that would not otherwise have been accomplished?

Found some more

"Civil Rights

Kennedy's brother, President John F. Kennedy, introduced the Civil Rights Bill in June of 1963, only months after Ted Kennedy joined the Senate in November 1962. During a speech, President Kennedy asked Congress to "enact legislation giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public -- hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores and similar establishments."

The bill that, after a struggle, eventually passed the House of Representatives Feb. 10, 1964, and met strong resistance in the Senate, remained on the floor for a 57-day filibuster. Though Ted Kennedy was still recovering from injuries he sustained in a devastating plane crash April 9, 1964, he gave an impassioned speech pleading with members of the Senate to end the filibuster of the Civil Rights Bill.

"My brother was the first president of the United States to state publicly that segregation was morally wrong," Kennedy said. "His heart and his soul are in this bill. If his life and death had a meaning, it was that we should not hate but love one another; we should use our powers not to create conditions of oppression that lead to violence, but conditions of freedom that lead to peace."

The bill was passed by the Senate several months later and signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson July 2, 1964.

In 1970, Kennedy supported the Voting Rights Act Extension, which essentially lowered the voting age to 18.

"He has a commitment not just to civil rights in any racial or other aspects, but in terms of the forgotten and the outcasts and the dispossessed, that's his instinct," said Frank Mankiewicz, press secretary for then-Sen. Robert F. Kennedy during the 1968 presidential campaign. "Whether it's the 18-year-old vote, or farm workers or ordinary sort of run of the mill civil rights legislation, women's rights, children, it's all there."

LGBT and Women's Rights

Kennedy also came out as a strong supporter of gay rights and women's issues.

"Kennedy is one of the earliest advocates for gay rights," Oliphant, the former Globe reporter, said.

A few instances of Kennedy advocating gay rights include his opposition to the Defense of Marriage Act and the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, his efforts to gain funding for HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment programs and, most recently, his support for expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation.

As late as 2007, Kennedy voted to re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment and ensured access to and funding for contraception. He also supported what many hailed as a women's rights issue by voting against a proposal to end funding for women-owned businesses, among other measures.

Americans With Disabilities Act

Kennedy introduced the Americans With Disabilities Act in 1990. The bill was designed to prohibit employers from discriminating in job hiring and in the workplace against people who had a disability.

"The crowning achievement of these decades of progress was passage of the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990, and its promise of a new and better life for every disabled citizen, in which their disabilities would no longer put an end to their dreams," Kennedy said on the 17th anniversary of the act in 2007. "The Americans With Disabilities Act was an extraordinary milestone in the pursuit of the American dream. Many disability and civil rights leaders in communities throughout the country worked long and hard and well to achieve it."

In 1978, Kennedy co-sponsored Civil Rights Commission Act Amendments, which expanded the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Commission to protect people from discrimination on the basis of disability."
~ http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/la...x.php?id=14349
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #21 of 185
The number I'm hearing is that something like 700 bills he's been involved with have become law.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #22 of 185
Quote:
I wonder how much respect you would show to George W. Bush if he passed away.

Not all of us are consumed eternally by partisan rage.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #23 of 185
Ted Kennedy: He was human.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #24 of 185
I have nothing against the man personally... but what he represents as a politician (and many others as well) is the worst possible representation for our republic.

Professional politicians are NOT statesmen.

The fact that he had such a long career in government is NOT a good thing (my opinion, you're welcome to have a wrong opinion )

Someone mentioned he had a hand in sponsoring over 700 bills that were passed into law?... Is that a GOOD thing???!!! It would seem to me that there are already too many "laws" for ANYone to keep track of... many of which most likely conflict with others.

I don't live in Massachusetts, or even in the NE USA, but it says volumes that the only specifics I remember about him involve the death of a young woman and driving while intoxicated.

None of this has anything to do with any particular party affiliation, I can find similar personalities on all sides of any issue. I just don't think his was an example of what our founders had in mind when they created our government.

I feel for his family, the death of family is never easy, but this kind of commentary comes with his chosen profession... even in death.


Perhaps I should be sorry I missed the comment... but someone gets banned because they felt no remorse??!! Ted chose to live in a glass house!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #25 of 185
Quote:
I don't live in Massachusetts, or even in the NE USA, but it says volumes that the only specifics I remember about him involve the death of a young woman and driving while intoxicated.

What volumes does it say?
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #26 of 185
he got the best health care this country has to offer, lived longer than expected because of it

i want his health care policy
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
Reply
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
Reply
post #27 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

What volumes does it say?

... That he apparently never accompished anything awesome enough to push those "indescretions" to the "back burner".
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #28 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

he got the best health care this country has to offer, lived longer than expected because of it

i want his health care policy

The only way to get it is to win a seat in congress. Even if President Obama has his way, the proles will never have access to a health program like theirs!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #29 of 185
For those that either don't care enough or just don't know how to find info on the web, this guy on this forum laid out some of his accomplishments.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...=772694&page=2
Posts 34 and 35.
post #30 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

For those that either don't care enough or just don't know how to find info on the web, this guy on this forum laid out some of his accomplishments.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...=772694&page=2
Posts 34 and 35.

What a pathetic, undistinguished career!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #31 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

he got the best health care this country has to offer, lived longer than expected because of it

i want his health care policy

It's ironic that he wasted health care dollars on treatments that are expensive and not proven to be better than cheaper equivalents.
post #32 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

It's ironic that he wasted health care dollars on treatments that are expensive and not proven to be better than cheaper equivalents.

You could back that up.
Do you think it may be possible that he paid for it?

He was aggressive in getting various opinions for his children and himself from specialists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/health/29docs.html
post #33 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

The number I'm hearing is that something like 700 bills he's been involved with have become law.

Of those 700, which ones should he be remembered fondly for? Sheer volume does not mean quality. I am sure that he has done many good things. Just trying to get the conversation rolling. I liked Hands response. Some specifics along with his personal opinions. However I do not necessarily agree with them all being great deeds. That is obviously my opinion, but I would love to hear from others.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #34 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Ted Kennedy: He was human.

That's more than can be said for most politicians!
post #35 of 185
I'm sorry, but had he been anyone else, he would have been in jail for what happened on that bridge.

My condolences to his family for their loss, but giving tribute to someone capable of that is insane.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #36 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I'm sorry, but had he been anyone else, he would have been in jail for what happened on that bridge.

My condolences to his family for their loss, but giving tribute to someone capable of that is insane.

I've often had similar feelings about a certain republican president ( no names please ).

However healthcare reform might go through now because of this.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #37 of 185
Bush left a woman to die under water and ran to protect himself from the consequences? Do tell.
That's a lot different from running a baseball team into the ground.

And I seriously doubt that Americans will fall for the "let's do it" for Kennedy nonsense.

Legislation should be passed on its own merits after thorough debate.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #38 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Legislation should be passed on its own merits after thorough debate.

And people with assault rifles carrying signs about the tree of liberty being fed by the blood of tyrants. Don't forget that super-important part of "thorough debate."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #39 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I'm sorry, but had he been anyone else, he would have been in jail for what happened on that bridge.

My condolences to his family for their loss, but giving tribute to someone capable of that is insane.

Is that what you think this is? I am looking for what was good about the man. In death I would hope that I will be given the same courtesy.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #40 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

You could back that up.
Do you think it may be possible that he paid for it?

He was aggressive in getting various opinions for his children and himself from specialists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/health/29docs.html

Proton radiotherapy is very expensive and not proven to be better than X-ray radiation. Even if he spent his own money it was wasteful and the money could have been better used providing care for those that cannot afford it. It's the epitome of what Obama is talking about when he mentions that most health care dollars are spent in the final months of someone's life.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Ted Kennedy dead tonight.