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U.S.A.: We dropped a bomb on ourselves. Oops.

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
Does anybody find this to be EXTREMELY disturbing?

Here's the U.S.A., considered by many to be the most powerful country in the world, and someone SCREWED UP so badly as to drop a bomb on our own soliders!

3 dead and 19 injured because of a mistake made by the most intelligent and militarily strong nation on this planet.

That's totally unacceptable.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>
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post #2 of 39
Happens in every conflict we get into.

Our Apaches launched hellfires and other nasty weapons at our tanks in Desert Storm, for example.
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post #3 of 39
You don't want to know the type of reputation that the US military has over here in the UK. In Desert Storm we lost more men to US fire than we did to Iraq's.
post #4 of 39
The US only send ground troops in if there are street lamps and a Burger King!

The US marines have a 12 weeks basic training.

Royal Marines have a 36 weeks basic training.

enough said....

post #5 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by bizza2:
<strong>The US only send ground troops in if there are street lamps and a Burger King!

The US marines have a 12 weeks basic training.

Royal Marines have a 36 weeks basic training.

enough said....

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Perhaps someone has to have things told to them three times before they get it

I heard a good one yesterday in a daily serious and analytical radio news program on one of our our national radio station: The basic equipment for an american soldier is sunblock and a Visa card. Perhaps now a big signs aying "Don´t bomb. I am an american" should be added.
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post #6 of 39
And I bet not one of you has every joined the services :roll: No one is perfect. Not even the British (snicker) army.
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post #7 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by To Ti or Not to Ti, that is the Q.:
<strong>You don't want to know the type of reputation that the US military has over here in the UK. In Desert Storm we lost more men to US fire than we did to Iraq's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You forgot to mention that those brits wandered in the the "kill zone". (or at least some of them did) You may want to look into buying some GPS devices.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #8 of 39
Loss of life due to frindly fire is unnacceptable no matter who it happens to. But to say that the US military is poorly trained is a false assumption. I think our track record in wars backs us here. However, what confuses me is that the bomb that was dropped was a JDAM right? Laser guided... So who "painted" our guys? Or was it a mechanical defect in the bomb itself? That is the question that I have.
NoahJ
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post #9 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>Loss of life due to frindly fire is unnacceptable no matter who it happens to.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Of course it is. If it weren't we'd never go to war. That's one of the risk when you go to war and friendly fire is an acceptable risk.


Remind our troops not to run with scissors too.
post #10 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>Loss of life due to frindly fire is unnacceptable no matter who it happens to. But to say that the US military is poorly trained is a false assumption. I think our track record in wars backs us here. However, what confuses me is that the bomb that was dropped was a JDAM right? Laser guided... So who "painted" our guys? Or was it a mechanical defect in the bomb itself? That is the question that I have.</strong><hr></blockquote>


It was a new type of bomb that is guided by a gps system. The crew that launches it enters the coordinates and then the bomb uses gps to destroy those coordinates. Currently, it is believed the gps system failed for some unknown reason or the bomb crew put in the wrong coordinates. Accidents do happen. No one is perfect. That is why we call them 'accidents'.
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post #11 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>


Of course it is. If it weren't we'd never go to war. That's one of the risk when you go to war and friendly fire is an acceptable risk.


Remind our troops not to run with scissors too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmmm, No thoughts on the rest of my post. Just read the first sentance and forget the rest?

Oh, and you should never run with scissors.
NoahJ
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NoahJ
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post #12 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by MasterZeus:
<strong>


It was a new type of bomb that is guided by a gps system. The crew that launches it enters the coordinates and then the bomb uses gps to destroy those coordinates. Currently, it is believed the gps system failed for some unknown reason or the bomb crew put in the wrong coordinates. Accidents do happen. No one is perfect. That is why we call them 'accidents'.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thank you, that was helpful. And as far as it being an accident, that is what I figured, unless the bomb was laser guided the opposing side somehow had the ability to "paint" the wrong area. But since it was GPS guided...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #13 of 39
Thread Starter 
Remind me how ANY fire in war is friendly? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #14 of 39
Friendly Fire is an unescapable byproduct of War. You can only minimize it but you will never prevent it. Each Soldier knows that they must be alert for attacks from the Enemy as well as from our own fellow Soldiers. Communication is the key.
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post #15 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>Remind me how ANY fire in war is friendly? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ummm, ok. If your fire at your "friends" then that is called "friendly fire". Not a very friendly thing to do but that is what it is.
NoahJ
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NoahJ
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post #16 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>Does anybody find this to be EXTREMELY disturbing?

Here's the U.S.A., considered by many to be the most powerful country in the world, and someone SCREWED UP so badly as to drop a bomb on our own soliders!

3 dead and 19 injured because of a mistake made by the most intelligent and militarily strong nation on this planet.

That's totally unacceptable.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

it's a ****ing war with thousands of missiles in a ****ing desert. shit happens.

it's amazing. 4 americans die in combat over 2 months in 2001. yet thousands could die every week in past wars.. put things in perspective here. 4 americans dead is amazing. this kind of unfortunate mishaps happens all the time.
post #17 of 39
What I don't understand is us Americans have become so whimpy. Thousands of people used to die in wars. Now if one person dies we stop and think about if the risks are just too high, it's stupid. Of course death is a tragedy but this is WAR and death happens. We are the most powerful country in the world, I mean only we are capeable of killing us. Our army kicks ass.
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post #18 of 39
"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on."

Joseph Heller, Catch 22.
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post #19 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on."

Joseph Heller, Catch 22.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course the guys there now are not looking for a way out.
post #20 of 39
Reminds me of those cruise missiles which can hit a dime, however one flies off and hits a Chinese embassy...

Ever seen that Doonsberry? The missile flies towars the powerplant, in the door, through the coffe lounge and then you have the general saying "Shortly after that it flew out a window and blew up a parking lot, but its impressive none the less".
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post #21 of 39
Of course what people Gary Trudeau don't see is that the US spent billions on "smart bomb" technology to save inocent lives. We could have "carpet bombed" Afghanistan and killed 10,000s but instead we spent hard earned tax payer money on developing "smart bombs" so we wouldn't have too.
post #22 of 39
Another thing to remember is just the sheer quantity of bombs dropped. I read that we've dropped more bombs on Afghanistan in just a few weeks than we did during all the years of the VietNam war.
post #23 of 39
Friendly fire is an unfortunate problem that occurrs in ALL modern wars. It didn't happen all that much when you had guys swinging swords and spears at eachother, because they could all immediately identify eachother.

Now, across a distance and with many other factors on the line, it's easy for a soldier to shoot at the wrong target.

And *STOP* saying American troops are not well trained. I spent a summer at a military school, which was much easier than Basic ever will be, and I came out much better than I was before.
post #24 of 39
When you cal in Danger Close fire support you are always takeing a chance. During VN I have been in situations when "friendly fire" was just as deadly to us as was the enemy fire we were trying to suppress. That was just calling in Artillary support. I think I would be really nervous calling in close support with 2000 lb bombs no matter how good the technology. Not being there and not having a good feel for how threatened I was by the enemy, I would hate to second guess the commanders decision on calling in the strike. Be sure that he did weigh the risk and he did decide to call it in. It is unfortunate that the technology or someone failed. I really feel sorry for the B-52 crew. They must really be feeling bad about this. Someday we will have the absolute technology that will guarantee that there will not be friendly fire deaths. (And I bet we will still have some.) Nothing is perfect in this world with the exception that if something can go wrong, it probably will.
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post #25 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by bizza2:
<strong>
... The US marines have a 12 weeks basic training.

Royal Marines have a 36 weeks basic training.

enough said....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Our friendly fire casualties were Green Berets. Their training is longer than 12 weeks.
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post #26 of 39
I heard on the news tonight that the company that makes a battery that is the power supply for the guidance system for the bomb (a part that is essential for the system to work properly) was sending out bad batteries. They falsefied test data and QA tests so that they would not have to eat the cost of the bad batteries. If this can be varified - what do you think the Federal Government do about it? Considering that American servicement died as a result, what would you charge the company and the management with? It is probably a good thing that I am not near the company headquarters right at this moment. At the very least I would have pickets outside their offices starting on Monday morning. I know that my congresmen and women will be getting an eMail from me asking for an immediate probe and if it warrents the arrest and chargeing of the managers of the company. At the very least each and every manager that actively took part in this down to the manager that was aware of and did not report this should be charged with manslaughter. If true and provable, very long sentences in Federal Prison would be too good for them.
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post #27 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by bizza2:
<strong>The US only send ground troops in if there are street lamps and a Burger King!

The US marines have a 12 weeks basic training.

Royal Marines have a 36 weeks basic training.

enough said....

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree. Damn Royals take longer to actually learn something.
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post #28 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by To Ti or Not to Ti, that is the Q.:
<strong>You don't want to know the type of reputation that the US military has over here in the UK. In Desert Storm we lost more men to US fire than we did to Iraq's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

WHAT????????

You would be speaking GERMAN right now if it wasn't for us!!!!! The US military has laid it on the line time and time again for not just us, but the WORLD. I don't usually resort to name calling, but you are an IDIOT!!!!

"Unacceptable" as some say-----umm, OK. We have accidents and sometimes one of our extremely, ridiculously sophisticated and complicated bombs malfuntions. Well ,SHIT HAPPENS. I agree with everyone that has made a comment supporting the position that it is amazing we haven't lost MORE men. We have been bombing like a whore out there and special ops troops have, IMO been over there for way longer than anyone tells us.

Basic training for the marines is, I think 12 weeks. That does not include special ops forces and on-going training.

As a whole, we have the best trained, best equipped and best prepared military in the world. God Damn British. Go to one of the hospitals in your socialized medicine system and get your head examined.

Or is it Scotland? Where the **** is the Kingdom of FIFE???????

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #29 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

WHAT???????? IDIOT!!!!umm, OK. SHIT HAPPENS.Or is it Scotland? Where the **** is the Kingdom of FIFE???????

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jeez, give it a break. I'm amazed this thread is still going...The British Allied Forces are helping us big time right now and I'm (and the whole USA are )grateful for it. For most of the others too.

Cheers Brits!
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post #30 of 39
From ac2c:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I heard on the news tonight that the company that makes a battery that is the power supply for the guidance system for the bomb (a part that is essential for the system to work properly) was sending out bad batteries. They falsefied test data and QA tests so that they would not have to eat the cost of the bad batteries. If this can be varified - what do you think the Federal Government do about it? Considering that American servicement died as a result, what would you charge the company and the management with? It is probably a good thing that I am not near the company headquarters right at this moment. At the very least I would have pickets outside their offices starting on Monday morning. I know that my congresmen and women will be getting an eMail from me asking for an immediate probe and if it warrents the arrest and chargeing of the managers of the company. At the very least each and every manager that actively took part in this down to the manager that was aware of and did not report this should be charged with manslaughter. If true and provable, very long sentences in Federal Prison would be too good for them. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

I was US Navy/civil service/ Quality Engineering from 1985-1996. The people in this company are doomed. First, the people who falsified the data are all going to jail for fraud. American SF are dead? There's no hiding, no way out for these folks; kiss 'em goodbye. The DCMA rep who accepted these batteries is probably screwed too.

The Government Program Manager will tap dance out of this mess with nary a scratch. See Cameron's "Titanic" to see what happens to the chief engineer (last seen in a lounge adjusting a mantle clock) and the program manager (the guy who got into the lifeboat full of women) when the White Star Line's Titanic Program sinks.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Aries 1B ]</p>
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post #31 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

WHAT????????

You would be speaking GERMAN right now if it wasn't for us!!!!!

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Guten Tag! I really hope you do not mind me speaking (and being) german, do you?
Would you mind to chill out? I really do not have a clue what you people are going on about with your pathetic "WE ARE THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE BEST BUT ACTUALLY SHIT HAPPENS" bullshit...

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: SuperKoch ]</p>
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post #32 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by SuperKoch:
<strong>

Guten Tag! I really hope you do not mind me speaking (and being) german, do you?
Would you mind to chill out? I really do not have a clue what you people are going on about with your pathetic "WE ARE THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE BEST BUT ACTUALLY SHIT HAPPENS" bullshit...

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: SuperKoch ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I actually have zero problem with Germany. I am just saying that a lot of countries in this world wouldn't exist right now if it wasn't for us.

And the reaosn people are going on about it is that, IMO, the US gets a bad rap from many different nations in this world. The fact is we defend nation after nation and give more humanitarian aid then any other nation in the world.

For our rep of being lazy, I say, and could prove if need be, that the American worker is one of the hardest working and most productive in the world. Companies in Europe have actually had to start working more hours than they used to because they were having trouble competing. Yes, I know that for a fact. My father-in-law is an international business executive.
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post #33 of 39
[quote] Or is it Scotland? Where the **** is the Kingdom of FIFE??????? <hr></blockquote>
It's Scotland, on the Eastern side between Edinburgh and Dundee. I'm about twenty miles south of Dundee in a small town that has more English in it than Scots (Thank God! )
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post #34 of 39
all were saying about the burger king thing is that the american forces are not trained to a high enough standard, they rely on too much on technology and it has a tendancy to go tits up. Yes you are the most powerful nation in the world today but look at the size of you, you should be! but why do you think that every time bush has given a speach since sept 11th tony blair has been guest of honour. Can you say SPECIAL FORCES.

ps.
"the british special forces can survive for months on only toothpaste, the americans feel hard done by if their not given pretzels and a milkshake everyday".
American news reporter.

Also what is up with calling football soccer???
post #35 of 39
[quote]Originally posted by bizza2:
<strong>all were saying about the burger king thing is that the american forces are not trained to a high enough standard, they rely on too much on technology and it has a tendancy to go tits up. Yes you are the most powerful nation in the world today but look at the size of you, you should be! but why do you think that every time bush has given a speach since sept 11th tony blair has been guest of honour. Can you say SPECIAL FORCES.</strong><hr></blockquote>


What total crap.

[quote]Originally posted by bizza2:
<strong>ps.
"the british special forces can survive for months on only toothpaste, the americans feel hard done by if their not given pretzels and a milkshake everyday".
American news reporter.

Also what is up with calling football soccer???</strong><hr></blockquote>


The SAS is trained as a "behind the lines" fighting unit. They are expected to be cut off and have to fend for themselves. So that' show they are trained. Where as the US SF are trained as an in and out force. Short missions with a specific objective. I'm guessing you didn't know that thought.
post #36 of 39
in, out, shake it all about force more like

Q : why do americans keep dropping bombs on themselves?

A : because there fat fingers get in the way of the controls

who ate all the PIES
post #37 of 39
Q : why did the american cross the road?

A : to shoot his friend!

post #38 of 39
Do we have a cat in the forum?
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post #39 of 39
I just saw the press briefing with Rumsfeld. He was asked point blank about the report of the dead batteries in the JDAM bombs. Both him and the Joint Chief know nothing about it. So maybe the story is not true.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
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