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Apple's Snow Leopard disc will install on Tiger Macs - Page 4

post #121 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I will concede your point that you have to buy a computer to utilize an operating system, and you can buy one that is capable of running windows for less. I really don't see the point of such a remark though.



I don't have an imac, but I love my MBP (core duo) hardware. Apple includes the little things that make a better experience. Illuminated keyboards, better trackpads, built in bluetooth, stiffer frames, lighter weight, no flimsy tray loading drives, ambient light sensor that auto ajusts brightness, etc, etc. I've also opened up my MBP on a couple occasions (once to replace a fan, macs aren't perfect \ and once to add a larger hard drive), and I was amazed at how well utilized the space was. The mounting setup for the hard dive was pretty cool too, the hard drive floats securely on rubber mounts ensure that the vibrations don't get transfered to the frame and other parts of the laptop. There is definitely a level of attention to detail that I haven't seen elsewhere.

It's all the little things, all the little details. Taken for all in all, the widespread desirability of Apple notebooks is not surprising. Plus it's the entire Apple gestalt. Can't be matched by anyone else.
post #122 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's all the little things, all the little details. Taken for all in all, the widespread desirability of Apple notebooks is not surprising. Plus it's the entire Apple gestalt. Can't be matched by anyone else.

Definitely true there, I love my Macbook Pro. Actually I got the early 2008 2.5 GHz model refurb, which I prefer over the new unibody for several reasons. It still has a firewire 400 port (and 800 too), has a real button under the trackpad, still has the expresscard slot, and is the last model with the full DVI port, no dongles needed. Oh, and I love having a usb port on each side of the laptop. It's fully supported by Snow Leopard, including 64-bit and Open CL, so hopefully it should last me for some time.
post #123 of 167
ok so let me get this straight i have 2 mb on tiger 2 recent imacs on leopard
i can
1. upgrade to SL on all with the 29$ upgrade
2. I don't need the family pac but can use one disk for all???

and i get full SL functionality? including saved disc space?
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post #124 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

ok so let me get this straight i have 2 mb on tiger 2 recent imacs on leopard
i can
1. upgrade to SL on all with the 29$ upgrade
2. I don't need the family pac but can use one disk for all???

and i get full SL functionality? including saved disc space?

Well, if you're upgrading more than one, you should buy the family pack. But nothing will stop you from using the regular one. Just like nothing will stop you from torrenting.
post #125 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

So why didn't you feel compelled to report that to a forum such as AI ages ago, instead of now? Duh?

Well if you notice, I'm not reporting it now on AI either. I basically said no kidding it works. This is old news and not surprising. Why wouldn't it install.

It's like saying, 'hey, anantksundram is a troll". I'm not reporting. Merely stating the obvious.


Duh.
post #126 of 167
How is this fair to those who spend $129 on Leopard...

Unless someone can give me a figure that less then 5% of Intel based Mac are using Tiger.........
post #127 of 167
I'll get the family pack but it would be great to upgrade
my mb tiger without buying two bundles
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post #128 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

How is this fair to those who spend $129 on Leopard...

Unless someone can give me a figure that less then 5% of Intel based Mac are using Tiger.........

People who paid for Leopard had a year and a half to use it, those who didn't didn't.
post #129 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

You have an intel Mac and you're still running 10.4??

Well I am, and it's an Intel Mac that has no need for iLife or iWork. So I'm interested.

Although I've decided to wait until the reports are out as to how well a Core Duo (32 bit only) processor works on Snow Leopard before doing anything. And I just might wait until iLife gets upgraded again, then get the box set. The current Intel Mac would get the Snow Leopard install, and the new mini I'm getting next month will get the updated iLife and iWork.

Yes, the Dual 1 Ghz Quicksilver is getting retired after 7.5 years of service. The other Quicksilver (single 800 Mhz) will remain in server duty. (80 W instead of 165 W)
post #130 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

I agree with concept of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” even though I much prefer to break things so I can fix it to see how it works, but Leopard was far from being bells and whistles. There were a lot of core foundations that Apple really tackled to make this a great OS over Tiger. However, Snow Leopard takes this to a whole…. ‘notha…. lev’a with core changes. I’m getting sick of some people crying that Apple is charging anything for this service pack that is only bug fixes.

I don't mean any offense, but those are vague generalities with no specifics. I read all the articles and I have Leopard on my MBP (came preinstalled), I still run Tiger on my Mac Pro. I really haven't found enough to agree it's worth the time to upgrade. I haven't had any major problems, but I haven't found enough reason to care either. Certainly nowhere near enough that would justify certain other people calling the remaining Tiger users stupid or whatever pejorative that was used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Well if you notice, I'm not reporting it now on AI either. I basically said no kidding it works. This is old news and not surprising. Why wouldn't it install.

You're using a stricter meaning of reporting than you need to. Just saying it works on a forum post is also reporting it, just not as a journalist. I don't recall anyone reporting it. I think it's fair to be puzzled why no one mentioned it before, it's not as if we don't have several developers on this forum, or at least people that are using developer releases.

A reason why few expected it to install is that it's priced like an upgrade over the previous version, not an upgrade for the version before. It was a fair expectation based on Apple's wording too.

Quote:
It's like saying, 'hey, anantksundram is a troll". I'm not reporting. Merely stating the obvious.

Duh.

No, that wouldn't be stating the obvious, that would be your opinion at best, and not a civil gesture either, I don't see how that response is justified. You certainly didn't have to say that that way, and because of that comment, I'm more convinced that it is you that is trolling. Say something like that again and I might not let it slide.
post #131 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

That was a quote from Walt Mossberg. Obviously he contacted Apple and received this confirmation from them. Hence this article.

Well, it's not obvious that he asked Apple anything, let alone if the $29 upgrade could be installed without Leopard, which is why I asked.
post #132 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

How is this fair to those who spend $129 on Leopard...

Unless someone can give me a figure that less then 5% of Intel based Mac are using Tiger.........

July 2009: Leopard: 3.42%, Tiger: 1.03%; Source
post #133 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobrik View Post

July 2009: Leopard: 3.42%, Tiger: 1.03%; Source

Thanks for looking it up.
That actually shows that about 25% of Mac users are using Tiger. Having a 75% adoption rate after 2 years is pretty damn good. Now, drop the PPC Macs from the list and you see that it was probably not fonancially viable for Apple to do authentication checks.
post #134 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't mean any offense, but those are vague generalities with no specifics. I read all the articles and I have Leopard on my MBP (came preinstalled), I still run Tiger on my Mac Pro. I really haven't found enough to agree it's worth the time to upgrade. I haven't had any major problems, but I haven't found enough reason to care either. Certainly nowhere near enough that would justify certain other people calling the remaining Tiger users stupid or whatever pejorative that was used.

No offense taken. I don't mean any offense when I say that the info about changes to Leopard over Tiger and Snow Leopard over Leopard is well known. The core changes are pretty dramatic.
post #135 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I will concede your point that you have to buy a computer to utilize an operating system, and you can buy one that is capable of running windows for less. I really don't see the point of such a remark though.

I think the point is, with most operating systems, it is at least theoretically possible to purchase the legal right to use an operating system totally independently from the act of acquiring and/or assembling the necessary hardware on which to run the operating system.

You can purchase or otherwise acquire the legal right to run the full version of an operating system in one act, and then you can purchase or otherwise bring together all the hardware necessary to run that operating system in a separate act. This is true of most personal-computer-class operating systems.

Alternately, you might be able to acquire the "upgrade" version of most operating systems, and even though it might be technologically possible to install them from scratch on a computer that has never had any previous version of that operating system on it, it would be illegal to do so because you hadn't already acquired the right to use a previous "full version".

On the Mac side of the equation, the only way to acquire the right to use Mac OS X in the first place, is if you purchase it bundled with computer hardware. If you have already assembled the necessary hardware technologically adequate to run Mac OS X, thus eliminating the need to purchase any new hardware, it is impossible to independently acquire the legal right to use Mac OS X. The versions of Mac OS X that you can purchase separately by retail are therefore all effectively "upgrades" for the original version of Mac OS X that came with the initial hardware purchase.

It is impossible to separate the cost of the Mac hardware from the cost of acquiring the legal right to run the initial "full version" of OS X.
post #136 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Well, it's not obvious that he asked Apple anything, let alone if the $29 upgrade could be installed without Leopard, which is why I asked.

Um, yes it is. He wrote the article. He said the standard $29 Snow Leopard installs fine on Tiger. He says Apple conceded this. He's a respected journalist who has been around a long time and has extensive contacts at Apple.

What else is there to understand???
post #137 of 167
I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?

I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29
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post #138 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?

I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29


Just the OS.
post #139 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

Just the OS.

Thanks
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post #140 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

No offense taken. I don't mean any offense when I say that the info about changes to Leopard over Tiger and Snow Leopard over Leopard is well known. The core changes are pretty dramatic.

I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?

I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29

I don't understand why you only got "old iLife". If you bought from apple (rather than third party used/old stock) got iLife 08 then maybe you should take that up with Apple.
post #141 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Well, it's not obvious that he asked Apple anything, let alone if the $29 upgrade could be installed without Leopard, which is why I asked.

Here's the exact quote from Mossberg's review:

"And, for owners of Intel-based Macs who are still using the older Tiger version of the Mac OS, Apple is officially making Snow Leopard available only in a "boxed set" that includes other software and costs $169. The reasoning is that these folks never paid the $129 back in 2007 to upgrade to Leopard. But here's a tip: Apple concedes that the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade will work properly on these Tiger-equipped Macs, so you can save the extra $140."

You can google it if you wish.
post #142 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.



I don't understand why you only got "old iLife". If you bought from apple (rather than third party used/old stock) got iLife 08 then maybe you should take that up with Apple.

Exactly. The Mac Mini came with 08. I was curious if the up-to-date program included iLife 09 since the iLife package comes with any new Mac.
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post #143 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

I think the point is, with most operating systems, it is at least theoretically possible to purchase the legal right to use an operating system totally independently from the act of acquiring and/or assembling the necessary hardware on which to run the operating system.

You can purchase or otherwise acquire the legal right to run the full version of an operating system in one act, and then you can purchase or otherwise bring together all the hardware necessary to run that operating system in a separate act. This is true of most personal-computer-class operating systems.

Alternately, you might be able to acquire the "upgrade" version of most operating systems, and even though it might be technologically possible to install them from scratch on a computer that has never had any previous version of that operating system on it, it would be illegal to do so because you hadn't already acquired the right to use a previous "full version".

On the Mac side of the equation, the only way to acquire the right to use Mac OS X in the first place, is if you purchase it bundled with computer hardware. If you have already assembled the necessary hardware technologically adequate to run Mac OS X, thus eliminating the need to purchase any new hardware, it is impossible to independently acquire the legal right to use Mac OS X. The versions of Mac OS X that you can purchase separately by retail are therefore all effectively "upgrades" for the original version of Mac OS X that came with the initial hardware purchase.

It is impossible to separate the cost of the Mac hardware from the cost of acquiring the legal right to run the initial "full version" of OS X.

I think you are digging too deep into what the poster was hinting at. It was just an OSX is expensive, not cheap rant. "The cheapest full license of OSX is $599!!!" Yeah, but it comes with a free computer.

Considering what your post, yes the OSX licensing scheme is different from Windows and Linux. However, it is not true that most operating systems operate like Windows. Most operating systems are tied directly to their hardware, with no major upgrades available. Cell phones, calculators, routers, cable boxes, etc often have operating systems that you can't purchase in store without buying new hardware. Now they are more basic than a personal computer operating system, but they demonstrate that tying the OS to the hardware is a perfectly viable business model. Now what do you do if you want to follow that business model, but also want to make updates available to your customers? You do what Apple does. I fail to see how a company wanting to allow customers to update their operating system requires the company to license the operating system for any and all "capable hardware".
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post #144 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'll restate my question then, how do the core changes affect the user? I was hoping for more information than that.

You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?

I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.

How do you know these changes are working? For one, each new OS release has made the same HW more efficient than the previous OS. Snow Leopard is worlds above Leopard in many fundamental ways due to these core changes. My battery management is even better, while Windows keeps adding core changes that are great for the new HW used but tend to be less efficient than the pervious version. Take this AnandTech article as Exhibit A: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582
post #145 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

You mean like how more powerful and efficient apps utilizing these core changes allow the user to be more productive or how allowing developers to make easy work of these frameworks and core technologies means that the user get a much more powerful app than they would have had in that same amount of coding time?

I’m not really understanding your stance that things like Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, CoreAnimation, Quicktime, Quartz and all these other foundations changes are to benefit the user. Just because the user doesn’t understand how they work or even that they exist doesn’t mean that the user isn’t benefiting from them.

I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.
post #146 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I was asking about Leopard over Tiger, only one of those were involved in that transition. I wonder how many devs are using Core Animation. The efficiency differences between Tiger and Leopard didn't seem to be that great. It's going to be some time before developers can take advantage of the architecture upgrades, the people in the know say that OpenCL and GCD aren't being used by software yet. Snow Leopard seems to have a lot better case going for it than Leopard did, possibly cleaning up a decade's worth of cruft, so it should be good once all those transition kinks are worked out.

There were several core technologies added or improved upon with Leopard. ScreenFlow is a brilliant app that is Leopard-only as it takes advantage of CoreAnimation. Sure, it can take some time for developers to finally utilize it but that doesnt mean that they dont benefit the user. The very fact that it takes some time to get integrate these core changes into an app should tell us that they are significant changes.

I did say that Snow Leopard takes it to another level. I think its been less than 3 months since Apple finally closed the door on GCD alterations so that developers can finally make their apps work with it. But GCD and OpenCL still seem very complex and Apple is still improving the developer info on it. On top of that, the apps that can most benefit from these changes are likely larger, more complex apps. That will take time, but we the users will benefit from these core changes in the end.
post #147 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Thank goodness this is finally cleared up (although we really knew yesterday with the story from Spain, although MR totally didn't report about the installation).

Maybe now all the douchebags who insisted that it absolutely wouldn't install without 10.5 already on the disk ("but it's an UPGRADE"!) based on absolutely nothing but their own hunches and wild speculation will learn to keep their yaps shut instead of trying to pass off their worthless opinions as fact.

But probably not.

Doubt we'll even see most of them admit they were wrong on this one. But here's your chance.

Snow Leopard is Faster than Leopard. The proof is I upgraded to it from Leopard on my osx86 PC. Yes PC!
(if you are wondering how, here is the guide i used )

And I found it to be at-least 20% faster at all moments. And I love it.
post #148 of 167
I got my copy for $9.
post #149 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I bought a Mac Mini 2 weeks ago which came with 10.5 and the old iLife. I ordered the up-to-date software from Apple for $10. Will that also include the iLife 09 bundle, or will it just include only the OS?

I've never done the up-to-date bit so I'm not sure what it includes. I also can't tell if it's shipped. The apple store just says it will ship on or before Aug 28th. I'm getting impatient when I could just go down to my local Best Buy and pick it up for $29

I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.
post #150 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

I bought a new iMac last June (last year's 2008 clearance model) and it had iLife '09 (Drop in CPU) DVD. Guess your Mac Mini must have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time. The up to date program for Mac OS X is for OS X only. It does not include iLife.

I have heard of Apple honoring the up-to-date program for iLife in circumstances such as this. I'd give them a call, it can't hurt.
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post #151 of 167
Just in case that wasn't clear...

I got the up-to-date version a few days ago and it WILL NOT install on top of a previous Tiger installation.
post #152 of 167
Reviving this thread with the question about whether the up-to-date Snow Leopard disc is the same as the full retail version. If not, what are the differences (specifically) based on actual experiences?
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post #153 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Reviving this thread with the question about whether the up-to-date Snow Leopard disc is the same as the full retail version. If not, what are the differences (specifically) based on actual experiences?

The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.
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post #154 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.

No, the retail version doesn't come with iLife and iWork, only the box set does. He was asking if there is a difference between the $29 Snow Leopard retail disc and the $9.95 "up to date" version that people could get if they bought a Mac after a certain date.

I am curious to know this as well.
post #155 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The full retail version comes with iWork and iLife. Outside of that the only differences between the versions is the EULA where you are allowed to install it on a machine without Leopard on it and how many machines you are allowed to install it on.

I thought only the box set came with iWork and iLife. I'm comparing the $9.95 up-to-date disc for Snow Leopard to the $29 retail version.
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post #156 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I thought only the box set came with iWork and iLife. I'm comparing the $9.95 up-to-date disc for Snow Leopard to the $29 retail version.

Gotcha. I thought that is what you meant.
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post #157 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gotcha. I thought that is what you meant.

And the answer is...
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post #158 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

And the answer is...

I dont know as I havent gotten my hands on one of those discs. Ill be buying a new Mac when they are updated but theyll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.
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post #159 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t know as I haven’t gotten my hands on one of those discs. I’ll be buying a new Mac when they are updated but they’ll have machine specific discs by then. Posting these types of technical questions tend to get better results on sites like MacOSXHints.com.

The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL
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post #160 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

The up-to-date disc contains only the core OS for $9.99, as does the $29 version retail version of 10.6. It does not include iLife. The Boxed set is $129.00 and includes iLife and iWork.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL

The Box Set is actually $169, Leopard was $129. I am well aware of this. As I stated previously, I thought Dr. Millmoss was asking something else.
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