New Apple tablet rumor: Larger form factor running Mac OS X - Page 2

Yeah, the iPhone/disaster comment was just a toss in.
The iPhone survived the development mess at the beginning because it was mostly being compared to other phones and its beautifully integrated phone/iPod/web combination was a revelation. Apps for phones were not a priority for the vast majority of buyers two years ago. That being said, the healthy development environment and the existence of the App store has now become a top selling point for the iPhone. We have no argument there!

Certainly then, if this rumored device isn't running standard OSX or iPhone OS programs, it would be completely useless without a long run up for developers. Assuming it is going to go on sale this fall, my money is on it running one or the other of these well developed OSs for that exact reason.

Actually, all it needs is Bluetooth. If you want to run something that requires a greater degree of accuracy than can be achieved with fingers alone, take your pick of third party mice, pens, trackpads, keyboards...

Agreed!

13" and 15" would be sweet for "Pros" if they nailed the OS, but I'm inclined to think they were prototypes. A larger device (even 10") would certainly be more conducive to multi-touch and other gestures than the iphone so perhaps that's a partial solution to some of the navigation issues, but I think I agree that it would be best to have a "hybrid" OS if the tablet were also to run native OSX Apps. I'm not entirely convinced it does.

The other thing often overlooked is that we may be able to use the tablet as an input device itself. I love the pro-tools controller app. on the iphone or the new onOne Software DSLR remote (makes me wish the device would be an AppleTV controller as well; games on ATV would be great as well) The iphone is a fantastic input device and something larger, with more power and functionality could be amazing.

Yeah, but then things are just starting to get weird. If you are going to need mice, trackpad, pens and keyboards, why do you not just use a laptop? I always thought the appeal of a tablet is that you can do the work right there on the screen yourself...

Obvious and Good Point. We don't always have to use it as a tablet. It really could be the best of both worlds actually.

I think Gizmodo picture is more idealistic of Apple than the blown-up iPod Touch Appleinsider has shown us.

Why would anyone want a 10" iPod Touch or iPhone look-alike. I wouldn't. The aluminum case model, I will buy on sight. I don't care what it does or can't do. It is made by Apple, that's enough for my money.

I love my iPhone. I don't want it bigger for any purpose. No, please no!

I'm not saying I believe this rumor, but even if Apple is making a tablet aiming at sub $1000, that doesn't mean they might not also make others bigger and more expensive. Presumably, if they actually do solve the tablet-interface problems, it'll scale nicely.

I can't say what I think of the device until I see it (presuming that it really does exist). But depending on what it's capable of, I could easily pay significantly more for a bigger-screen version. The ability to draw on it would make be want a bigger screen.

I really think it needs a cursor/pointer at least. I get very frustrated on an iPhone trying to navigate regular websites. You can't hover over pictures to see if they are links, no status bar to help you decide if you should click the link. iPhone type interaction is just too primitive for a larger, more capable device.

This would be my guess as well. It's not really sensible to talk about Apple needing "an entire other operating system", since OS X can be modified via optimized UI and an appropriate selection of components. From the developers perspective, the main differentiators are learning to use the proper UI conventions and working within a constrained memory space, and that's something that really needs to happen anyway, if you're going to sell a new form factor with software that really works well.

Also, consider this: many people have remarked on the "gateway" role of the iPhone. Lots of people who might not own or considered a Mac are using an iPhone and getting a sense of the Apple way of doing things. At least some of those people are more likely to consider a Mac next time they go computer shopping.

Now imagine a tablet with an "intermediate" OS-- familiar to iPhone users but with more of the full OS X flavor. If such a device were popular, now you're gently moving people along the evolutionary chain, towards Macs and full OS X.

And Apple is literally the only electronics/computer manufacturer in a position to do this, to offer an incremental range of a single OS that can run on everything from handhelds to servers.

I think that, as mobile computing becomes more and more the norm, the scaleability of OS X is going to be of increasing competitive advantage. MS makes you jump from CE/Mobile to Windows 7. RIM doesn't have a desktop or even palmtop OS of any sort. Nokia is bringing out a netbook, but it's running Windows 7. We've seen a few Mameo and Android biggish things, as well as rumblings from the Pre camp, but once you move past phone size is there a huge advantage to putting Linux with a UI designed for a phone on a netbook?

It appears to me that only Apple can make these finally calibrated versions of a single OS, versions that wring as much functionality as possible out of the hardware at hand.

First off I'm not a programmer, but it does seem to me Apple is taking a long range approach...First you organize OSX by decreasing it's footprint with Snow Leopard (Hello MS?) and now it becomes a manageable 'core' to attack the fastest growing segment in tech, mobile computing.

Just as there are those people who need the MacPro and MacBookPro for processing pwr one has to think the majority of computer/smartphone users do basic computing tasks, email, web browsing, photos, music, a little video, basic word processing/desktop publishing and maybe rudimentary web design and spreadsheet work. Even in the business class, I have to think the majority of the work is rudimentary.

Therefore, do the 'heavy lifting' so to speak on your 30" iMac and do your communication/presentations from your Tablet/iPhone.

Thoughts?

You cant do a hover, but you can hold down on the image for a second to copy the image, save the image, open in that window, open in another window and see the URL.

I still haven't heard a credible suggestion of what is the "secret sauce" that's going to make this tablet (at whatever size) succeed where all past attempts have failed. It's certainly a possibility that the secret will simply be to get all the details "just right", but I am more inclined to believe that the tablet will need a fundamentally new feature or application to make it viable.

My hope is that the tablet has a big surprise hiding in it, and that the rumors and predictions have been as narrow short-sighted as the original predictions of the iPhone were.

We shall see soon, I hope. I'm exhausted from following this rumor for multiple years.

a) I think you are looking for engadget or gizmodo.

b) only half of the people reading your comment have "dicks" anyway.

Prototype iTablet seen in the wild!

Agreed! I think the bluetooth aspect you are talking about would be part of the entire tablet 'eco-system.' For those who want to carry ancillary 'stuff' ie., BT mouse/keyboard, trackpad, etc., will be available from Apple or the third party manufacturers, eventually.

I would be very surprised if Apple did not include BT!

Personally the less stuff to carry the better! But I could see having a thin padded aluminum brief case in my car with the Apple BT keyboard for those times I go into a coffee shop/travel and knock out emails that require more than a 10 word response!

No but its programs do (WMP, IE, etc). So you get the hassle of needing 64 bit drivers (albeit these problems have smoothed out now) without the benefit of 64 bit programs, unless you specifically choose to open them. Add to that, WMC does open in 64 bit, so all your 32 bit plugins for WMP don't work. I can see a lot of non tech savvy people wondering why Windows Media Player will play a video for them, but Windows Media Center wont. Of course if you were at least a little tech savvy, you would also get the 64 bit codecs. Then again if you were tech savvy, you could hold down 6 and 4 on the mac when booting if you really needed the 64 bit kernel.

That is good to know but doesn't really help solve the fundamental problem of no hover in iPhone Safari. Many websites use mouse over functionality for menus, alt/title tags, etc, etc and that feature would be quite useful, at least for me, but it requires hover which touch navigation does not offer.

Yes, thanks, but well over half of the half you are talking about have access to them!



PS. don't be such a self-satisfied prig! I was 'speaking' metaphorically...my dick didn't actually move BTW!

Haha!

Grade 10.

Right, you use pornographic language on a public forum, but somehow *I'm* at fault.

Then you compound it by making similar comment that also has the "added feature" of being sexist. Then you make a personal attack on me for saying anything about it. I was at least fairly nice in responding to your original stupid remark.

It would be easier for all concerned if you just kept the offensive language to yourself wouldn't it?

Well I agree with you that Apple could make more than one model. I do however think a sub $1000 model would work best with some variant of iPhone OS. Once you get into the 13" range or bigger, we are probably looking at least the cost of the 13" MBP. Once you get to that point the expectations will be different and people will want a full fledged computer, so iPhone OS wont cut it. That creates a problem with people buying a tablet thinking they are getting the other one with a different OS. I don't think Apple would willingly generate that sort of confusion. Of course you could avoid it with OSX on all tablets, but I don't think the touch experience would be good enough to satisfy the general consumer. The other way would be to differentiate the tablets through price and branding. In this scenario I see the larger tablets carrying the pro label and costing significantly more than the 10" (or less) model.

Assuming they did do two models, my prediction would be the following:
10" tablet with "i" branding running on Arm/Atom chips and a variant of iPhone OS running in the $700 - $800 price range before carrier subsidies.

13"/15" tablet with "mac" and "pro" brandings running on at least MB Air internals with OSX and a starting price of at least $1500, and probably no 3G or carrier subsidies.

Of the two, I would consider the first version more likely to appear as it serves a potentially larger market. Hopeully a tablet does show up eventually, so we can stop speculating.

Like the rest of us, I'm just guessing, but remember that odd patent that Apple filed last year where there was an computer that looked like a iMac? It had a small tablet device in a slot where the optical drive was. I'm guessing that this multiple form factor is somehow tied in together with this tablet design.

A mobile device that is also a SSD hard drive that docks into your iMac desktop? That would be awesome in a home or business setting for presentations, or if a consumer, as a mobile AppleTV that could wirelessly use the Internet, play games, control your devices like a remote, Snow Leopard compatible, and an bootable external SSD drive to transfer data. Totally awesome. Everyone will want one. I can see Apple pulling off such a thing.

Well, in favor of the "getting it just right" theory of killer app, we have...... the iPhone.

Which did nothing that prior smart phones couldn't do, but just did it much, much better.

Arguably, current tablets offer a similar target-- they're out there, but none of them are particularly fun or easy to use, and are largely confined to a specialized market/geek niche.

And for the same reasons smart phones were a far more a niche product before the iPhone-- crappy UI and indifferent design, with "features" substituting for "usability."

I predict here and now that if Apple releases a tablet which is popular, and which revolutionizes the tablet market in general as other manufacturers rush to copy what Apple has done, tech commentators everywhere will assure us that Apple did nothing special with their tablet, that it lacked all kinds of features that other tablets had had for years, that the subsequent explosion in the tablet market had nothing to do with Apple and was just the inevitable progress of technology in general, and that Apple users are "smug" for imagining that an Apple product is in any way superior or influential.

I'll take one...

Not only will I be able to surf the web, but I'll be able to take to the beach and surf... period!

Now I just need to learn how to hang ten, but I bet there is an app for that!

All kidding aside, I'm glad I have yet gone mobile yet with some sort of Powerbook or MacBook etc., without first seeing what this could be...

That is, if the talk of a larger touch net book type device is true.

Right on!

Someones been attending the free Apple Bashing 101 classes hosted by CNET.

I think you nailed it in the second part of your post. Most predictions of the tablet have been incrdibly narrow sighted especially when considering it running iPhone OS. iPhone OS does not make a tablet just a big iPhone. It provides a solid, user and developer friendly base to build off of.

Now for some ideas:

Cloud computing/Screen Sharing/Secondary Input device

The possibilities here are endless. If could be as simple as an Apple TV remote where you can browse all the functions of the Apple TV on the tablet without interupting the movie on the TV. You could stream from the tablet, copy the onto your Tablet if it is playing from somewhere else, buy the current movie you are watching (if you are renting it), read synopsis, read reviews, browse for similar movies etc. Or it could be as complicated as running processor intensive activities on Apples new server farm with the results streamed to your tablet. Or using your home computer remotely with an improved version of screen sharing where you don't see the entire screen, but only the output of the current program you are using. You would have dedicated companion apps on the tablet with customized touch interfaces that simply offload the work you do to the main app running on your computer, which then transmits the results back. Speciallized apps designed for VNC could help eliminate visual lag by only transmiting the essential information and performing the more basic tasks directly on the tablet. Maybe a new service for mobile me? Oh, I left out secondary input, but that is pretty straight forawrd, it gives you a touch screen as a secondary monitor, although you could develop specific apps for that as well.

ebook reader/note taker/student companion

Assume Apple scores a deal with textbook manufacturers and offers an ebook store. Students now have all their textbooks on the tablet at a reduced cost compared to print, where they are free to annotate them and purchase only the chapters they need. Rental could also be an option. Either way carrying a tablet sure beats carrying books. Touch input is perfect for taking notes involving formulas, figures or diagrams. Maybe they you could have smart folders where all your notes, recordings, assignments, and textbooks are organized by class.

Of course I am still thinking inside the box. Apple could blow us away with something that we have never thought of before.

as far as the product positioning issue goesIf I were in charge.

The iPod Touch should be taken out of the iPod brand family, leaving the Classic, Nano, and Shuffle, and put into the new i[insert new name here] brand family. This new family will debut with the current 3.5 model as well as a 6-7 model and a 9-10 model. These devices will have blue tooth, wifi, 1 USB, port, and 3G data in the first or second generation. OLED will be in the first or second generation. OLED and larger devices will allow for more battery life.

They will run iPhone OS, which will allow the ability to run more apps simultaneously (but not unlimited multitasking yet) and have a simple file manager. These 2 new features will not be given to the iPhone so as to not compromise the batteries in the iPhones and also to differentiate the brand families. This new product family will have an app for that from day 1even if running on a smaller window on a larger device until the devs step in. By the second generation iLife and iWork will be ported over.

This new family will differentiated from iPhone, iPod, and MacBook/Pro. The only question then is does the MacBook (white book) remain the sole member of its family. For now, yes. Keep it as a decent, but not stellar intro laptop. Knock off $50-100, and bring back the candy colors.

Mac OS X inside is a must (not the crippled and limited OS X of the iPhone and iPod touch).

To run full-blown videopresentations from NATIVE Keynote (.key) and PowerPoint (.ppt) files, using video-out and USB2 ports for the wireless remote control.

And most importantly, as light as possible (400 g would be great). Because the MacBook Air is too heavy, too large and too port-crippled.

Here is an order of thousands for our University.

More importantly the other half have gazoombas!

Why does it have to be full blown OSX? Sounds like you just need a keynote app. I'm pretty sure if Apple were to release a tablet with iPhone OS, they would also release iWork Tablet Edition. I highly doubt that there will be usb ports. It would probably need a bluetooth remote or an iPhone.

Why does it have to be one of the other? Making iPhone OS X read Keynote and PowerPoint and have them output to an external monitor don’t require Mac OS X.

And you want this device with a reported 10” display to also be under a pound? The iPhone is 1/3rd that weight and it only has a 3.5” display, or about 1/8th the display size and footprint. Then you’d have more components to get this faster HW to run Mac OS X and all those ports you want, on top of the fact that a larger device will need more structural support. That just isn’t physically possible in this day and age.

I'll just add, that the iPhone OS is neither "crippled" or "limited", it's merely optimized for a small device with limited memory and CPU resources.

An OS for a a larger device need not be "full OS X" to be appropriate to that device and very powerful in its own right, as befits a machine with more screen real estate, memory and CPU resources than an iPhone.

In fact, if by "full OS X" we mean UI and all, with tap events substituting for mouse and keyboard events, that would be terrible.

The parts of Mac OS-X that are required for all the things you say you want the tablet to do are already present in the iPhone variety of OS-X. You just don't need "full-blown" OS-X to do what you want to do.

OS-X is OS-X. When we are talking iPhone vs. desktop versions we are just talking about the GUI, not the capabilities of the system itself. Both can open and run files and display them on screens etc. There is nothing about Keynote or PowerPoint that makes them incompatible with the iPhone variety of OS-X and "presentation software" in general does not tax the CPU or the hardware even as much as the average iPhone game does.

The current iPhone can already connect to a projector and can already display keynote presentations without any problem at all.

If Apple is building a tablet, I'm sure they have tested all sorts of screen sizes, and probably run normal OS X on those prototypes. Doesn't mean any will see the light of day.

I've used slate-style tablets in the field. 15" is too big to cradle in one arm and write on with the other. 13" would be OK if you held it portrait-style like a notepad.

Snow Leopard or iPhone OS X? What are the primary differences? Various drivers? Different processors?

WHy not bring OS X for Tablets to a midpoint where both can be used?

It's probably a given that people would want to print with these devices, especially the larger ones. There is also little doubt that some of the users would be more oriented to the iPhone/touch world than the Mac world - especially the PC/iPhone owners.

A dual approach brings in those developers who have been working on the iPhone/touch OS as well as your basic Mac apps, like iLife, iWork or even Office.

Why not pull 'em in from both worlds?

Announcement? Not before the Holiday shopping IF it won't be available before Christmas. Why short change the iPhone/iPod/Mac sales?

If the source was reliable at the point they disclosed the information to Gizmodo, they have now ceased to be so. No true Apple insider releases information without serious repercussions.

Having said that I'm not sure I see much of a market for a notebook sized tablet computer; I certainly have no use for one. I'm not going to say it's going to fail, however, because Apple is adept at creating successful products.

I'm now planning to buy a 3rd Gen iPod touch on September 9 and limit my use of it to apps, music and podcasts. The screen is just too small for any website that isn't specifically formatted for handheld devices.

Bet you are wrong.


Does everyone on here use a desktop and mice or something, because I don't understand why people are going on about a lack of pointing accuracy inherent in fingers and OSX not having a touch interface and OSX apps all having to be rewritten for a touch interface.

I use a MacBook primarily. All the apps on it are already optimised for touch and I already use a touch interface with good accuracy, it's called a track pad. If the track pad surface were as large as the whole screen area, I would have even greater accuracy than I have now, which suffices for everything I do, including Photoshop manipulations.

Keyboard - well that appears as a transparent layer on the lower half of the screen when required, summoned by a new touch/swipe gesture..

Touch the screen in pointer mode and a a cursor arrowhead appears just in front of your fingertip.

perhaps a new icon on the dock changes the paradigm to that of an oversized Touch when a more simple mode of usage is favoured or is more appropriate.

As for usage, have you considered how many workers in the world do so on their feet primarily and make do with a clipboard or just a sheaf of paper? One of the earliest AI articles had relating to the touch detailed how Jobs granted a meeting to, and met with, NIH delegates:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ell_phone.html

Perhaps Jobs' recent unwelcome forays into the guts of the medical community has inspired him to have a change of heart and create a tool that would at least go some way to meeting their needs. After all, he will have had enough time in his close encounters of a medical kind to see first hand how a tablet device might help.

It's all very well saying if you have a need for OSX apps and a keyboard, use a laptop, but they aren't that great held in the crook of your arm when you are on your feet and moving around.

Is it a first for rumor-mongers to start producing rumors about a product that is supposedly a follow-up to another rumored product that hasn't yet, if ever, come to market?

I guess trying to anticipate Apple's next move is rather tired and now we are treated to efforts to anticipate the next few moves.