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Possible Sept. 9 Apple TV refresh report rebuffed

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Disputing a prediction that an upgraded Apple TV could make an appearance at next week's media-centric product unveiling, a new report states that the event will stay true to its tagline: "Only rock and roll."

Citing "very reliable sources," Jim Dalrymple of The Loop said that an Apple TV upgrade will not be unveiled at Apple's event scheduled for Wednesday, Sept. 9. That contradicts a prediction made Tuesday by Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, who noted that limited availability of the 40GB Apple TV model could signal a new hardware model, or perhaps a lower price point.

Munster also predicted that Steve Jobs will deliver the keynote at next week's event. However, competing analyst Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. said he does not expect the Apple co-founder to appear.

Sources of both The Loop and AppleInsider have stated that Apple's long-rumored tablet device will also not make an appearance Sept. 9. That product is expected to debut in early 2010.

Echoing a famous Rolling Stones lyric, the invitation for Apple's keynote reads "It's only rock and roll, but we like it." Combined with what his reportedly reliable sources told him, Dalrymple expects next week's keynote to focus on iPods. It is widely expected that the iPod nano and iPod touch will be equipped with cameras, and possibly the iPod classic as well.



Apple could also possibly release iTunes 9, a software update that is rumored to have social media integration, and possible Blu-ray support.
post #2 of 44
Shame, but maybe they're waiting for the PA Semi über-ARM system-on-chip before they release it (as I think an ARM SoC is the most cost-efficient way forward for the AppleTV, if it has sufficient video decode capability - hopefully 45mbps H.264 for an add-on BluRay drive).

iTunes 9 is a certainty. Hopefully it will also be 64-bit on Snow Leopard.
post #3 of 44
Three analysts, four viewpoints. So, what else is new?
post #4 of 44
I guess you folks get to keep your hotplates for now.

BTW, anyone with an aTV run XBMC or Boxee on it? How well does that work?
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post #5 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Three analysts, four viewpoints. So, what else is new?



I guess Apple is only going to talk about iPods/iTunes, Crunch!
post #6 of 44
Bummer. I was hopeful

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

BTW, anyone with an aTV run XBMC or Boxee on it? How well does that work?

I use Boxee all the time. I'd use it even more if the TV had beefy enough to play HD content (other than h.264-encoded). For now I use it for playing back DivX (480p) content as well as various online content (Hulu, CBS, and last.fm primarily). Without Boxee, the AppleTV is the best investment and most used device in my entertainment system. Adding Boxee makes it even better.

But keep in mind, I rarely watch broadcast television. If I were a channel surfer, I might find it less useful.
post #7 of 44
The "AppleTV on 9/9" rumors make no sense.

AppleTV does not have good margins; Apple needs to do something to reduce costs and the aforementioned comment about a P.A. Semi uber-SoC makes far more sense.

I still believe that Apple is working on a mid-tier OS (placed between iPhone OS and Mac OS X) that might be suitable for AppleTV, the phantom tablet, and other potential devices (game console anyone?). They just shipped Snow Leopard, so they can divert some engineering resources to this mid-tier OS. Then they can finish up the new architecture and provide SDKs for developers.

Also, Apple uses the iTunes Store to drive sales of its hardware. For video content, a subscription based model makes far more sense (like Netflix) rather than the "a la carte" sales that music buyers prefer. Right now, Apple needs to rework contracts with TV networks (including HBO whose content is missing) and movie studios to enable a subscription-based model that would make the AppleTV more attractive to consumers.

For all of this to happen, the most likely timeframe for a new AppleTV (and new video subscriptions) would be sometime early next year.
post #8 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I guess you folks get to keep your hotplates for now.

BTW, anyone with an aTV run XBMC or Boxee on it? How well does that work?

Last month's MacLife magazine devoted their whole issue on this topic: into hacking it for Boxee, Hulu; posted results , and compared it to the MacMini running the same. Enjoy.

Now what can I whip up on my ATV grill tonight- nachos or tuna melt with Munster cheese?
post #9 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post



I guess Apple is only going to talk about iPods/iTunes, Crunch!

iPods with cameras?
iTunes with Blu-ray support yet no Blu-ray hardware?
Yawn.
post #10 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Three analysts, four viewpoints. So, what else is new?

You being positive?
post #11 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I use Boxee all the time. I'd use it even more if the TV had beefy enough to play HD content (other than h.264-encoded). For now I use it for playing back DivX (480p) content as well as various online content (Hulu, CBS, and last.fm primarily). Without Boxee, the AppleTV is the best investment and most used device in my entertainment system. Adding Boxee makes it even better.

But keep in mind, I rarely watch broadcast television. If I were a channel surfer, I might find it less useful.

The only problem with Boxee on the AppleTV is the lack of HW acceloration due to the CPU used. Hopefully a SL-base update and/or HW update will allow Boxee to really make Flash 10 driven content run well at higher bandwidths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

The "AppleTV on 9/9" rumors make no sense.

AppleTV does not have good margins; Apple needs to do something to reduce costs and the aforementioned comment about a P.A. Semi uber-SoC makes far more sense.

I still believe that Apple is working on a mid-tier OS (placed between iPhone OS and Mac OS X) that might be suitable for AppleTV, the phantom tablet, and other potential devices (game console anyone?). They just shipped Snow Leopard, so they can divert some engineering resources to this mid-tier OS. Then they can finish up the new architecture and provide SDKs for developers.

Also, Apple uses the iTunes Store to drive sales of its hardware. For video content, a subscription based model makes far more sense (like Netflix) rather than the "a la carte" sales that music buyers prefer. Right now, Apple needs to rework contracts with TV networks (including HBO whose content is missing) and movie studios to enable a subscription-based model that would make the AppleTV more attractive to consumers.

For all of this to happen, the most likely timeframe for a new AppleTV (and new video subscriptions) would be sometime early next year.

The AppleTV can't go away and that special Intel CPU could likely be cheaper and certainly better with Ion (Atom+Nvidia 9400M). This could give at least OpenCL access to the chipset which would mean Take 3 could be Snow Leopard and we'd see some definite performance gains. Nvidia claims that Ion can push high-profile H.264 @1080p, but I haven't seen it done without dropped frames.
post #12 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You being positive?

I am always positive!
post #13 of 44
Maybe we just have a Cube situation here. Apple's built the best product they how how to build, but they're just at an impasse with consumers.
post #14 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Three analysts, four viewpoints. So, what else is new?

I wonder if anyone has tracked all the pundit/analyst predictions with each Apple 'event' and rated their success/failure rates over time.

(I'm guessing Rob Enderle would have a 100% success rate... for predicting the exact opposite of what actually happens.)
post #15 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

The only problem with Boxee on the AppleTV is the lack of HW acceloration due to the CPU used. Hopefully a SL-base update and/or HW update will allow Boxee to really make Flash 10 driven content run well at higher bandwidths.

Exactly. The TV has hardware acceleration to support 720p h.264 content only, and a mediocre processor not worthy of decoding any other video formats at resolutions higher than 480p. I really doubt an O/S upgrade will compensate enough to change that which is why I'm hoping Apple does release a new aTV with a faster processor capable of decoding alternate HD content (as well as giving it the ability to run Silverlight for Netflix streaming).
post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

The only problem with Boxee on the AppleTV is the lack of HW acceloration due to the CPU used. Hopefully a SL-base update and/or HW update will allow Boxee to really make Flash 10 driven content run well at higher bandwidths. ...

Well, there is *another* big problem with Boxee and Hulu and all those AppleTV add-ons that's rarely mentioned which is that they only work in the USA. The largest and fastest growing segments of Apple's markets can't use them at all.

So for AppleTV to really be a success, they need to get some of that stuff to be native instead of a hack, and they need to make it work in more than one country.
post #17 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I guess you folks get to keep your hotplates for now.

BTW, anyone with an aTV run XBMC or Boxee on it? How well does that work?

I was running Boxee on mine for a while. It was okay, but the actual UI was pretty clunky (slow/sluggish/etc.). About a month after using it, I think my ATV did an update (they say you are supposed to turn off the automatic updates...oops) which killed boxee.

If you love old episodes of ALF or A-TEAM, it was a lot of fun. After it stopped working, I heard they removed Hulu from it, so I didn't see a need to install it again.

However, I don't know if hulu is still available.

Even if ATV comes out with some more features, I think I'm going to go the mac mini route. Other than a couple hundred bucks price difference there isn't a reason to choose the mac mini. You can watch iTunes, DivX, Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, etc. Plus you can browse the internet, play games (yeah... not great ones), watch DVDs, and chat with a friend from across the county. When I think about it, I get a little angry for ever purchasing the ATV at all. \

There are a lot of media options out there. If Apple is going to introduce a new ATV, it had better have some unbelievable features.
post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You being positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Maybe we just have a Cube situation here. Apple's built the best product they how how to build, but they're just at an impasse with consumers.

even at macrumors most people prefer the ps3 and think the atv is overpriced, lack of features, etc
post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi View Post

I was running Boxee on mine for a while. It was okay, but the actual UI was pretty clunky (slow/sluggish/etc.). About a month after using it, I think my ATV did an update (they say you are supposed to turn off the automatic updates...oops) which killed boxee.

If you love old episodes of ALF or A-TEAM, it was a lot of fun. After it stopped working, I heard they removed Hulu from it, so I didn't see a need to install it again.

However, I don't know if hulu is still available.

Even if ATV comes out with some more features, I think I'm going to go the mac mini route. Other than a couple hundred bucks price difference there isn't a reason to choose the mac mini. You can watch iTunes, DivX, Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, etc. Plus you can browse the internet, play games (yeah... not great ones), watch DVDs, and chat with a friend from across the county. When I think about it, I get a little angry for ever purchasing the ATV at all. \

There are a lot of media options out there. If Apple is going to introduce a new ATV, it had better have some unbelievable features.

Yeah mac mini is way more versatile if you don't mind spending the extra cash.
post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Yeah mac mini is way more versatile if you don't mind spending the extra cash.

Versatile yes, but it's designed to be used only by a remote and so it's not a good fit for the average person's entertainment center. I'd rather have a TiVo or a PS3 with an AppleTV for about the same money. I'd get a lot more uses out of it for an entertainment system unless you consider editing Word documents on your TV something worthwhile.
post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

even at macrumors most people prefer the ps3 and think the atv is overpriced, lack of features, etc

I can definitely see the argument for that. From what I understand all 3 major gaming consoles are good alternatives, especially if you want to do any gaming. I'm not sure if the xbox has a web browser but I know ps3 and wii both do - so that would give you online content from netflix, hulu, etc...

I love my apple tv, but I've entertained the idea of going with one of the consoles instead because it gives you the optical drive (ps3 has the blueray everyone wants), and web access.
post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Versatile yes, but it's designed to be used only by a remote and so it's not a good fit for the average person's entertainment center. I'd rather have a TiVo or a PS3 with an AppleTV for about the same money. I'd get a lot more uses out of it for an entertainment system unless you consider editing Word documents on your TV something worthwhile.

Well there's the front-row interface that's just like the apple tv - with one remote, but you also have web access. I would never do any productivity stuff like word or anything , but some hulu video and netflix could be good, even tho using safari from your couch could be a little awkward. Bletooth keyboard and mouse works for some people. Hulu is working on this with the hulu desktop app - not sure if it runs on macos yet or not, but things like that could give you a ten foot interface to some online content.

I'm not as concerned with the DVR stuff especially when I can watch the shows I like on hulu or at the network's web site.

Hard to argue with the ps3 cause of the gaming capability, but don't you have the same issue with using a web browser with a remote or a mouse and keyboard?
post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Well there's the front-row interface that's just like the apple tv - with one remote, but you also have web access. I would never do any productivity stuff like word or anything , but some hulu video and netflix could be good, even tho using safari from your couch could be a little awkward. Bletooth keyboard and mouse works for some people. Hulu is working on this with the hulu desktop app - not sure if it runs on macos yet or not, but things like that could give you a ten foot interface to some online content.

I'm not as concerned with the DVR stuff especially when I can watch the shows I like on hulu or at the network's web site.

Hard to argue with the ps3 cause of the gaming capability, but don't you have the same issue with using a web browser with a remote or a mouse and keyboard?

That is what I was saying. If you want to use a web browser on your TV go for it, but this is a pointless inclsion for most people. Having to use a keyboard and mouse to start and then switch from Front Row is a PITA. There are a bunch of Applesripts that will auto-boot into the Front Row interface but you lose a lot of the features that I love about the AppleTV and it's not something that doesn't take tweaking, that doesn't have occasional issues and as previously stated it's not a setup for the average person. If you can't plug a meia extender in and have it ready to go with nothing more than imputing a couple of passwords then it won't get widely adopted.

Hulu app for Mac is pretty nice. It is designed with a 10-foot interface in mind and I expect to se it added to media extenders with Flash at some point. My only issue is that some menus aren't as intuitive as they could be.

Hulu isn't great for everyone. With Hulu you have to wait until at least the next day, sometimes for more than a week like I am for several shows now. And then if you don't watch it within a certain time it can disappear. Then you have 360p and 480p with low bitrates. Having a TiVo with cable HD is a whole lot better. I use both but each has pros and cons
post #24 of 44
What is appleTV? It's almost exactly like an iPod. It's got the music and video watching capabilities. It's got YouTube (like the iPod touch and iPhone). You can download videos and music staright from the iTunes store. This belongs in the same category as iPod and iTunes. It is most like an iPod but one with no screen that you hook up to a screen.

If iTunes gets an update I don't see why appleTV wouldn't.

The begining of each year there is an update to macs. In the summer there is the iPhone update (usually accompanied by an OS update) and then the begining of September there is the iPod and iTunes updates. It's just like their website. Set into different sections with different update times. On the iPod and iTunes section of apples website is the appleTV. This makes it likely for an update along with these other products.

With these examples I believe there is a large possibility that appleTV will get an update. But I guess we will have to see come 9/9/09
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post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Three analysts, four viewpoints. So, what else is new?

hhahaa, great line.

A propo of the apple tv, I have to say that what really needs to be done by apple, although I doubt it will see it any time soon, is a central music, files and video server, a raid nas, it really makes no sense to keep the mac open just to stream a movie, energywise or practicality-wise, the atv would have been much better had it been a client to an enlarged time capsule nas.
post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

hhahaa, great line.

A propo of the apple tv, I have to say that what really needs to be done by apple, although I doubt it will see it any time soon, is a central music, files and video server, a raid nas, it really makes no sense to keep the mac open just to stream a movie, energywise or practicality-wise, the atv would have been much better had it been a client to an enlarged time capsule nas.

I take it the aTV cannot use the Time Capsule? If Apple doesn't make the aTV come with a larger hard drive that we can keep our media on (or at least make the device use a standard Desktop hard drive) it would be nice if could stream off the Time Capsule, or another NAS device. I thought it had that functionality though? I guess I'm just thinking of Front Row and/or XBMC.
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post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I take it the aTV cannot use the Time Capsule?

The Apple TV works with time capsule, but I'm pretty sure just for backup.
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post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

I can definitely see the argument for that. From what I understand all 3 major gaming consoles are good alternatives, especially if you want to do any gaming. I'm not sure if the xbox has a web browser but I know ps3 and wii both do - so that would give you online content from netflix, hulu, etc...

I love my apple tv, but I've entertained the idea of going with one of the consoles instead because it gives you the optical drive (ps3 has the blueray everyone wants), and web access.


xbox has netflix built in and ps3 has blu-ray. BD movies and itunes HD movies are the same price so why buy from itunes when BD looks better as well
post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

xbox has netflix built in and ps3 has blu-ray. BD movies and itunes HD movies are the same price so why buy from itunes when BD looks better as well

Some are the same price, but some BRD are way more money, but that is neither here nor there. Many of use don’t want to ‘buy’ movies, we only rent them, and many of us that like to buy movies prefer iTunes Store because we can do it instantly on our computers on in front of our TVs so even if the prices were exactly the same there are still issues that BRD can’t beat iTS on even if the quality is better as many find that the iTS quality is “good enough”. If you can’t see that there is a market for instant and convenient downloads then I don’t know what to tell you except that having a single solution may work for you but it’s not the only option out there and your views will never be the same as everyone else’s.
post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I guess you folks get to keep your hotplates for now.

BTW, anyone with an aTV run XBMC or Boxee on it? How well does that work?

Boxee, XBMC is NOT what you want.

Your startup to a menu: AppleTV or Boxee so you never loose the original. Yes, GREAT!
post #31 of 44
With iPod sales in decline I guess you need to hit the refresh button one more time... And by the time AppleTV could have been something... Something better will have come along...

Old adage about being asleep at the wheel... There has been a Boxee box in the works for a while now. Last I heard was $99 retail with possible subsides from netflix to make it free with a 2yr sign up. I think they actually have their own that can run it as well. Either way that's the future for media in the home.

iPod's are for personal usage. AppleTV was meant for home.

And what is with these lame slogans? Someone retire leaving the daycare in charge?

New AppleTV event will be titled "It's hip to be square!". Apple Tablet event "I can see clearly now the stylus is gone." - Flaming! Who ever is making these should make like a tree and leave (scram - if you know that movie).

Ultra low power Macs - "the power of love"
Itunes breaks 99 billion downloads - "99 Lufballons"
Retro iMac classic release - "Party like it's 1999"

How about we take one of your slogans use it for the rest of them - "Stop in the name of love"

Starting to get a little UN-COOL to be a Mac owner when you have to explain why these slogans are getting used.

If it's all iPods, I'm getting a Zune.
post #32 of 44
Apple could easily make another big push into market share by coming out with a Karaoke mode for the iPod/iPhone/iTunes. They already have all the hardware capability, they just need to license the vocal-less tracks, or better yet instead of those crappy cover tracks get the record producers to release the original music without the lead vocals.

Do that and it would be game-over for all other music players. They would even get to sell much of the catalog again but with the karaoke versions.

This would be a much bigger deal than releasing the Beatles on iTunes. Heck, do both and let the dough roll-in.
post #33 of 44
Hot News: AppleInsider continues to believe bullshit stories from analysts that have their heads in their ass.
post #34 of 44
"an Apple TV upgrade will not be unveiled "

that means it's definitely happening.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Some are the same price, but some BRD are way more money, but that is neither here nor there. Many of use don’t want to ‘buy’ movies, we only rent them, and many of us that like to buy movies prefer iTunes Store because we can do it instantly on our computers on in front of our TVs so even if the prices were exactly the same there are still issues that BRD can’t beat iTS on even if the quality is better as many find that the iTS quality is “good enough”. If you can’t see that there is a market for instant and convenient downloads then I don’t know what to tell you except that having a single solution may work for you but it’s not the only option out there and your views will never be the same as everyone else’s.

netflix is just as fast as itunes when you account for download times. and they have a larger selection
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple13 View Post

What is appleTV? It's almost exactly like an iPod. It's got the music and video watching capabilities. It's got YouTube (like the iPod touch and iPhone). You can download videos and music staright from the iTunes store. This belongs in the same category as iPod and iTunes. It is most like an iPod but one with no screen that you hook up to a screen.

Yes, its like an iPod for your TV. The problem is that unlike the iPod when it came out, you can't import its preferred media format from your own collection. If you had to buy all new music for the iPod, people would still be using CD walkmans.
post #37 of 44
I bought a Apple TV just weeks after it came out. I like it but I think its going down the crapper.

Its obvious that this is just "a hobby" thing for Apple.

Jobs and Apple just do not seem to have the interest in it. Its been a year and a half since the last real update to it. Its pretty much all iPhone (which I I also have) and the Touch at Apple.

Well, and the Tablet thingy.

But hey, prove me wrong Apple.
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple13 View Post

What is appleTV? It's almost exactly like an iPod. It's got the music and video watching capabilities. It's got YouTube (like the iPod touch and iPhone). You can download videos and music staright from the iTunes store. This belongs in the same category as iPod and iTunes. It is most like an iPod but one with no screen that you hook up to a screen.

Except you can search your own music files far easier on any iPod than you can on ATV with its supplied remote.
Excluiding the shuffle, of course.
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

netflix is just as fast as itunes when you account for download times. and they have a larger selection

But not a better selection. I can rent movies from iTS the day many movies hit as DVDs but Netflix does not have them as streaming downloads. On top of that, the Netflix quality is not as good as iTS.
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

With iPod sales in decline I guess you need to hit the refresh button one more time... And by the time AppleTV could have been something... Something better will have come along...

Old adage about being asleep at the wheel... There has been a Boxee box in the works for a while now. Last I heard was $99 retail with possible subsides from netflix to make it free with a 2yr sign up. I think they actually have their own that can run it as well. Either way that's the future for media in the home.

iPod's are for personal usage. AppleTV was meant for home.

And what is with these lame slogans? Someone retire leaving the daycare in charge?

New AppleTV event will be titled "It's hip to be square!". Apple Tablet event "I can see clearly now the stylus is gone." - Flaming! Who ever is making these should make like a tree and leave (scram - if you know that movie).

Ultra low power Macs - "the power of love"
Itunes breaks 99 billion downloads - "99 Lufballons"
Retro iMac classic release - "Party like it's 1999"

How about we take one of your slogans use it for the rest of them - "Stop in the name of love"

Starting to get a little UN-COOL to be a Mac owner when you have to explain why these slogans are getting used.

If it's all iPods, I'm getting a Zune.

Troll much?

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