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Apple's Snow Leopard upgrades Mac OS X, downgrades Flash - Page 2

post #41 of 74
9/3/09 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

IF windows shipped with itunes, and IF windows 7 shipped with itunes 8 [after 9 is released]this forum would be screaming bloody murder for MS trying to cripple the competition, regardless of release dates. so much for being objective.

So having 8 instead of 9 is in the same ballpark as 10.0.23.1 instead of 10.0.31.18??? It is still Flash 10, and can play anything the newest version can. What was the most recent Flash version when Snow Leopard was released to manufacturing?
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post #42 of 74
9/3/09 at 7:59am
They should have a checkbox to turn it off, like with Java. It is important enough and troublesome enough to be mentioned by name and be able to be turned off without disabling all plugins.
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post #43 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:01am
Easiest way to completely disable Flash in Safari is just to go to the "Security" tab and uncheck "Enable plug-ins". But that'll disable all plug-ins. Alternately you could just uninstall Flash. Trash that sucker from /Library/Internet Plug-ins/. Of course... some evil web designers will invariably create navigation... or entire sites... that ONLY work with Flash. Nice job bobo. So with all that said... I have to say... I'm LOVING this Click To Flash plugin! Sweet solution to most Flash annoyance!
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post #44 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

...Flash is a third party plug-in after all. Apple is not responsible for shipping anything for Adobe...

I think the issue here is that Apple is taking responsibility for shipping Adobe's software in this case, and they're not forewarning the user.
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post #45 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So just upgrade it.

Big deal.

Graham Cluley is a British computer programmer and 'Senior Technology Consultant ' at Sophos. So some antivirus outfit is rendering their opinion on the matter. Time to tune out.

WHY does adobe not love apple ???
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post #46 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromos View Post

As people have mentioned, ClickToFlash. It's fantastic.

Hello . I went there and read the whole link .I still don't understand this whole flash hubbub ??
Isn't QT better ??
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post #47 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Hello . I went there and read the whole link .I still don't understand this whole flash hubbub ??
Isn't QT better ??

For what again? Quicktime is good for video, almost not any good for interactive anything, and Quicktime only has about half the user base too. I expect Flash to be gradually pushed out as HTML 5 gets accepted, but that's a long haul, and I doubt HTML 5 is a complete replacement.
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post #48 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

I wonder why Snow Leopard downgrades the Flash player? What's the reason behind it? There actually could be no reason and it's just a mistake.

like many here I don't know what the whining is all about, 10.6 issomething that was frozen some time ago. Like all OSes it has a lot of outdated software. SO as a user you update what is important to you.

Otherwise I'm not sure what the big deal is, no body complains about the old version of Python for example. It's a non issue if you ask me, update and move on.



Dave
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post #49 of 74
9/3/09 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Otherwise I'm not sure what the big deal is, no body complains about the old version of Python for example.

Outdated != insecure. Older versions of Python still receive updates for some time since not everyone wants or can update to the latest version.
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post #50 of 74
9/3/09 at 9:04am
Adobe should be grateful that Apple even decided to bundle Flash. Big deal about the minor version difference.
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post #51 of 74
9/3/09 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Outdated != insecure. Older versions of Python still receive updates for some time since not everyone wants or can update to the latest version.

From reading other forums it seems that this exploit has not affected anyone in the wild, and as a Mac user you are not at vulnerable unless you actively change flash to be the default pdf viewer instead of preview. Has anyone ever done that?
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post #52 of 74
9/3/09 at 9:29am
Any chance Adobe will "step back" and look hard at the Flash Player and rewrite it? It seems to me that now would be a great time to do it because things have reached a plateau.
  1. OS X - 64-bit, Cocoa, OpenCL, Grand Central Dispatch
  2. Windows 7 - 64-bit, Vista "fixed", IE less dominate and more standards compliant
  3. Linux/BSD - Both are getting more love every day.
  4. Smart Phones - These can browse the internet and play video
  5. Netbooks - Basically a smart phone, but with the added ability to do computer work.
  6. Multi-core processors - While the OS can deal with it as it is now, working with the OS would make things run smoother.
  7. HTML5 - I do not expect the video tag to topple Flash, but it could creep up on Adobe like Firefox did to Microsoft.
  8. Silverlight - Microsoft knows they can't control the web using IE, but they can make a plugin that works with the major browsers running on Windows and OS X. Microsoft is already requiring Silverlight for some videos on their website.
Silverlight should be Adobe's main concern because Microsoft has had some serious blows to their dominance in the last 5+ years and they have been backed into a corner, figuratively speaking, so they are fighting back. A quick list is
  • Search - Google took care of this a while back
  • Web Browser - Firefox disrupted Microsoft's plans of tying new versions of IE to new versions of Windows. Apple furthered this disruption with WebKit, and now we have more browsers than ever on Windows. OS X, Linux, and *BSD.
  • Music - iPod, iTunes, iTunes Store sidelined Microsoft's audio codec(s). The removal of DRM from music gave WMA another push
  • Video - QuickTime has always been a thorn in Microsoft's side, but the iTunes Store pushed MP4 even more. Let us not forget some movies come with a digital copy made specifically for the iPod.
  • Phone - The iPhone sucker punched Windows Mobile, the App Store is brilliant, and I believe Android is making headway.
  • Operating System - Vista was a major fumble while OS X improved and went Intel making it easy for people to install XP on a Mac so they could transition at their leisure.
  • Netbooks - This did a double whammy because Vista couldn't run on these, so no new Vista copy used, and Microsoft had to continue letting XP get sold at a major discount to stem Linux from dominating the netbooks, more XP copies that are being used.
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post #53 of 74
9/3/09 at 9:46am
I guess Apple was too busy with their own code to triple check for the last Flash update before going Gold Master. That's too bad. Maybe they should write a script in 10.6.1 that will always compare the installed Flash version with the current Flash version posted over at Adobe upon launching Safari so it will automatically go over to the Flash install page when they don't jive.

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post #54 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

I guess Apple was too busy with their own code to triple check for the last Flash update before going Gold Master. That's too bad. Maybe they should write a script in 10.6.1 that will always compare the installed Flash version with the current Flash version posted over at Adobe upon launching Safari so it will automatically go over to the Flash install page when they don't jive.

You may think a month is a long time, but probably not for developing such a major project. The way I understand these big projects, they gradually reduce the circumstances that they allow software changes.
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post #55 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You may think a month is a long time, but probably not for developing such a major project. The way I understand these big projects, they gradually reduce the circumstances that they allow software changes.

Right. Plus running the update over at Adobe takes all of a few seconds to finish. It's nice to know we have AI looking out for our best interests all the time though.

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post #56 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromos View Post

As people have mentioned, ClickToFlash. It's fantastic.

Just downloaded and installed....thanks for the link!
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post #57 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Safari -> Preferences -> Security -> Activate plug-ins (or similar, I'm running a non-english version). Do yourself a favor and use ClickToFlash instead.

Thanks, just did!
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post #58 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

They should have a checkbox to turn it off, like with Java. It is important enough and troublesome enough to be mentioned by name and be able to be turned off without disabling all plugins.

Yes that's what I was hoping for, too.
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post #59 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Easiest way to completely disable Flash in Safari is just to go to the "Security" tab and uncheck "Enable plug-ins". But that'll disable all plug-ins. Alternately you could just uninstall Flash. Trash that sucker from /Library/Internet Plug-ins/. Of course... some evil web designers will invariably create navigation... or entire sites... that ONLY work with Flash. Nice job bobo. So with all that said... I have to say... I'm LOVING this Click To Flash plugin! Sweet solution to most Flash annoyance!

Yep, I see your point....Similarly my real estate firm just redesigned their website where 'Pop-Ups' have to be ON!

WTF! What was this webmaster thinking?

So in Safari, there is no way to turn pop-ups off but choose to leave it on for a certain website. It's all or nothing! Sheez!

And don't get me started on the MLS websites with .aspx whatever that is. It's just incredible these hacks can get away with designing clumsy, archaic, websites.
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post #60 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

WHY does adobe not love apple ???

Yeah, right on. That's the real story here. It may be, as some suggested, just an oversight or coincidence, but given their history....who knows!
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post #61 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

I wonder why Snow Leopard downgrades the Flash player? What's the reason behind it? There actually could be no reason and it's just a mistake.

A major software release like Snow Leopard contains thousands of pieces of software, it's hard to catch everything all the time.

It could depend on when the package structure was put together, which would usually drive the versions of third-party content included.

On top of that, if you're doing your job right, you can't just replace one of those items, or shouldn't, without testing its effect on the product.

Given time constraints, it's probably better to go with what you know works, and deal with upgrading after installation.

It's not like Apple did this on purpose to make Adobe (or Apple, for that matter) look bad.
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post #62 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Why doesn't flash upgrade automatically?

Bite your tongue, man!

You want it to act like the auto-update "feature" with other Adobe products? The feature that can't find the application, bails after spending who knows how much time futzing around, then tries to do it again the next time you use the application.

No thanks.
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post #63 of 74
9/3/09 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

IF windows shipped with itunes, and IF windows 7 shipped with itunes 8 [after 9 is released]this forum would be screaming bloody murder for MS trying to cripple the competition, regardless of release dates. so much for being objective.

Sort of like some people are grousing about Apple not shipping a version of flashplayer that postdates the GM build? Like that?

And who in the world ever claimed this was an objective forum anyway?
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post #64 of 74
9/3/09 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

But Apple ships and installs it by default so they have at least the responsibility to keep their users on the newest version if they can't fix problems by themselves.

Sigh.

Here's how software releases work:
  • You define a set of resources (applications, etc.) that will go into the package.
  • You specifiy a schedule for release, testing, etc. It will change, depending.
  • Part of that schedule includes cutoff dates for submissions. Because testing takes some time; you do not want to drop in the latest shiny thingie at the last possible instant before you send the package off for duplication. Well, not if you want to stay in business. Negotiations may affect this a little.

What you're asking for is for Apple to pull back the GM release package to swap out the flash plugin after the GM was ready for production. Which would slip out the release date, even more if someone actually did some testing.

And wouldn't that make everyone happy...

Quote:
Judging by that logic Apple wouldn't also be responsible for all the third party open source stuff which ships with OS X.

Only if schedule timing means nothing at all in the real world.
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post #65 of 74
9/3/09 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

You do not know what you are talking about. Flash can't possibly crash Safari anymore since it runs in its own process starting with 10.6. Plus, stating that Apple did the right thing by exposing the users to what Adobe considers itself critical security bugs borders on lunacy.

Like The Donger's sexy american girlfriend say -- when you argue with stupid fanboy, you end up with poo on your d***.

Must go now. Donger need food!
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post #66 of 74
9/3/09 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

I guess Apple was too busy with their own code to triple check for the last Flash update before going Gold Master. That's too bad. Maybe they should write a script in 10.6.1 that will always compare the installed Flash version with the current Flash version posted over at Adobe upon launching Safari so it will automatically go over to the Flash install page when they don't jive.

And hope that the page location URL never, ever changes in the future.

Unless you know what Apple's internal testing/build schedules were, and the cutoff dates for releases, you can't say this with any certainty.

There are only so many resources available to any real-world entity.

Maybe Apple should just add a script that pops up a message on installation saying to go over to Adobe and get their flipping flashplayer plugin yourself.

That would go over well.
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post #67 of 74
9/3/09 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Just downloaded and installed....thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Thanks, just did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Yes that's what I was hoping for, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Yep, I see your point....Similarly my real estate firm just redesigned their website where 'Pop-Ups' have to be ON!

WTF! What was this webmaster thinking?

So in Safari, there is no way to turn pop-ups off but choose to leave it on for a certain website. It's all or nothing! Sheez!

And don't get me started on the MLS websites with .aspx whatever that is. It's just incredible these hacks can get away with designing clumsy, archaic, websites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Yeah, right on. That's the real story here. It may be, as some suggested, just an oversight or coincidence, but given their history....who knows!

The Donger say -- figure out how to use multi-quote, or you end up with poo on your d***.
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post #68 of 74
9/3/09 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post

Irrelevant stuff

Nobody ever asked Apple to push back the release date. But they should have released a hotfix via the auto updater (especially for fresh installs) and take measures that versions do not get replaced with outdated ones in the first place.
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post #69 of 74
9/3/09 at 1:03pm
Just read the article and watched the video and thought I better check the laptop I just upgraded two days ago. To my surprise, it is running Adobe flash player 10.0.23.1. Apparently there are some occurrences where it does not get downgraded. I was running Leopard 10.5.8 prior to upgrading to Snow Leopard 10.6.0.

I would suggest just to visit adobe's website and do a version test prior to taking time to download and install to save some time and frustration.

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html
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post #70 of 74
9/3/09 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

For what again? Quicktime is good for video, almost not any good for interactive anything, and Quicktime only has about half the user base too. I expect Flash to be gradually pushed out as HTML 5 gets accepted, but that's a long haul, and I doubt HTML 5 is a complete replacement.

Apple had plans to added Quicktime Interactive in Quicktime 3.0 as part of the HyperCard 3.0 project. Apple even produced an alpha of the project that they showed off at the 1996 Worldwide Developers Conference. Varies things wound up killing the project and all that came out of of it was what is known as Wired Quicktime.

Also Flash had the advantage of being owned and made by Macromedia until Adobe both them out c2006.
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post #71 of 74
9/3/09 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

I wonder why Snow Leopard downgrades the Flash player? What's the reason behind it? There actually could be no reason and it's just a mistake.

Probably just the version they tested with and wanted to ship something stable. Bleeding edge versions of Flash don't have a great track record on the Mac platform so I can see why Apple wanted to be cautious. If they have to choose over bugs or stability it's a difficult situation. I'm not sure that was the case here or not just a strong possibility IMO. I guess if it makes anyone feel better there's almost certainly security bugs just as bad in the new release. Let's face it, Flash is becoming the ActiveX of its time. Adobe is not a company you want to trust to make secure software. The whole process of updating Flash on any platform is a bit awkward. For such an important bit of software we should really be looking to open standards.
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post #72 of 74
9/3/09 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Yeah, right on. That's the real story here. It may be, as some suggested, just an oversight or coincidence, but given their history....who knows!

The day they bought and killed GO LIVE studio SW I hated adobe .
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post #73 of 74
9/3/09 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Hello . I went there and read the whole link .I still don't understand this whole flash hubbub ??
Isn't QT better ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

For what again? Quicktime is good for video, almost not any good for interactive anything, and Quicktime only has about half the user base too. I expect Flash to be gradually pushed out as HTML 5 gets accepted, but that's a long haul, and I doubt HTML 5 is a complete replacement.

I do not own flash
and i get promps to DL flash all the time .
Can i work around not being forced to DL flash ??
Does HTML exist for me to use now ??

And today i lost a good movie stream because silverlite is not on my drive .

WHYcan;t QT or whatever apple SW do all this stuff ?

I refuse any msft or adobe SW's on my mac if i can help it .
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post #74 of 74
9/3/09 at 9:11pm
**** this Sophos guy. What's the latest of Adobe Flash now? 10.0.32.18 ... Which I just installed ... So OMFG all of you running 10.0.31.X are all going to be Haxx0rred!!!

And yup, nice to see the Flash process pegging a core from 50% upwards.

For the record, I have designed/developed in Flash and it does have it uses. It has been abused, but sometimes a Flash-based website offers an improved, richer user experience. Which some will continue to debate, of course.

FWIW, yay for Safari being crash resistant. The way of the future and they beat Google Chrome to it (on the Mac, since Google Chrome is not available for Mac).
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