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Apple approves Commodore 64 emulator for iPhone

post #1 of 67
Thread Starter 
A previously rejected iPhone title offering emulated play of Commodore 64 titles has been approved after the developer made changes to align it with Apple's SDK. It allows the iPhone to act as a system that was what was once Apple's staunch competitor.

According to a report by TouchArcade, Manomio's $4.99 C64 title was rejected in June despite having lined up all the proper licensing rights.



The sticking point for Apple appeared to have be the inclusion of the Commodore BASIC 2.0 interpreter, which would enable the app to execute arbitrary code. The iPhone 2.0 SDK specifically limited apps from containing their own executable runtimes in a clause that stated:

"An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apples Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s)."

That element of the SDK baring the launch of other executable code brought the approval of any type of emulator into question, as the sole purpose of an emulator is to act as another platform in order to run programs designed for it.

Emulators vs. the SDK

The main point of Apple's SDK restriction appears to be the company's desire to prevent its own Cocoa Touch platform from being sidelined by a third party developer's sub-platform, such as Java, Adobe Flash, or Microsoft Silverlight. If developers want to ship apps for Apple's iPhone, they have to use Apple's APIs.

There are also security implications involved. Most of the highly publicized vulnerabilities that are counted against Mac OS X's security are actually flaws in the third-party runtimes it bundles, particularly Java and Flash. At WWDC, Apple cited 'web plugins' as the primary reason for crashes under Leopard, clearly fingering Flash. Any capacity to run code is a potential vector for malware or a vulnerability exploit.

Additionally, the ability to run external titles would not only allow developers to subvert the App Store approvals process, but could also open up the iPhone to widespread piracy, a problem that would not only undermine the success of the App Store itself but also expose Apple to copyright infringement claims from intellectual property holders in the same way Napster was sued for making the distribution of pirated media available.

In App Purchase

Apple addressed the friction between emulator titles and sub-platform limitations in iPhone 3.0 via in app purchasing, a new feature in iPhone 3.0. This enables developers to package additional elements to enhance their apps and sell them separately.

In Manomio's case, its C64 package includes the emulator and five game titles: Dragon's Den, Le Mans, Jupiter Lander, Arctic Shipwreck, and Jack Attack. Additional games are expected to be released as in app purchases as they become available. The app will not load arbitrary game code downloads nor expose a BASIC interpreter.



The booting emulator screen displays a screen that says "BASIC is disabled in this version. Don't despear[sic]! It should be resolved in a future update." Whether the company meant "despair" or "disappear," other developers will be closely watching to see how Apple interprets its SDK in allowing its state of the art smartphone platform to act as an emulator for previous generations of titles.

Return of the Commodore 64

Somewhat ironically the Commodore 64, which debuted in 1982, wildly outsold Apple's own offering at the time: the Apple IIe, which at $1200 cost twice as much. Commodore brought its computer to the public using toy and department stores at a time when Apple and IBM were wedded to networks of authorized dealers. A significant part of Apple's recent success comes from its direct retail initiatives.

Commodore also helped pioneer the concept of bundling in ports for a ready-to use system as opposed to the existing Apple II line, which presented the user with eight expansion slots but only a few built-in ports. While Apple's expansion potential was touted as a feature, few owners really needed it.

This may have influenced Steve Jobs' view of the personal computer, as all subsequent computers from Apple, including the Macintosh, moved away from the open-ended PC design toward a ready-to-use system aimed at the mass market. Jobs' return to Apple in the mid 90s refocused the company on the new iMac and moved away from the PC-like "Power Express" boxes with lots of slots that were then on the ailing company's drawing board.

Today, Apple's notebook line has virtually no expansion options, particularly with the replacement of the seldom used ExpressCard slot with an SD card reader on mainstream models. The consumer-oriented iMac and Mac mini also continue to offer no general purpose expansion slots, although most modern peripherals have standardized on specifications such as USB or FireWire, greatly reducing the need for general purpose expansion slots.

As for the iPhone and iPod touch, Apple doesn't include either a user-replaceable battery or a RAM slot, leaving the mobile devices tied, much like the Commodore 64, to a single interface for games and apps. For the C64, that was its difficult-to-pirate cartridge slot; for the iPhone, it's the digital rights management of iTunes. Which now offers the ability to act as a C64.


post #2 of 67
I wouldn't ever buy it, but it certainly looks well made.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #3 of 67
I would buy it if it had games I remember as a kid, but I don't know what any of those 5 are. I remember International Karate but that's not one of the 5.
post #4 of 67
exclusive interview with C64's designer.
http://copenhagencocoa.com/2009/09/0...-c64-designer/
post #5 of 67
Quote:
Don't despair [sic]! It should be resolved in a future update." Whether the company meant "despair" or "disappear,"

Under what contrived reasoning would they be thought of as meaning "disappear"? That makes much less sense to assume disappear, grammatically speaking. The sic seems to be unnecessary too, it is spelled properly and I don't see why it might be the wrong word. Maybe if the spelling somehow looked like an amalgam of the two words, but it's not.
post #6 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Under what contrived reasoning would they be thought of as meaning "disappear"? That makes much less sense to assume disappear, grammatically speaking. The sic seems to be unnecessary too, it is spelled properly and I don't see why it might be the wrong word. Maybe if the spelling somehow looked like an amalgam of the two words, but it's not.

Note author of article. That contrived reasoning.
post #7 of 67
Ha!

> LOAD $,8,1
>PRESS PLAY ON TAPE

post #8 of 67
That looks really cool!

I had a ZX Spectrum as a kid though, so I'm going to hold out and hope someone comes up with a similar emulator for that.
post #9 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Under what contrived reasoning would they be thought of as meaning "disappear"? That makes much less sense to assume disappear, grammatically speaking. The sic seems to be unnecessary too, it is spelled properly and I don't see why it might be the wrong word. Maybe if the spelling somehow looked like an amalgam of the two words, but it's not.

Im with you. The usage is conventional, thus making the meaning unmistakable.
post #10 of 67
"Don't despair" is the correct English for this situation. Why is there a "[sic]" afterwards?

However that price for only five second rate games? Really really bad value, in my opinion. Where are the classic C64 games?
post #11 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

"Don't despair" is the correct English for this situation. Why is there a "[sic]" afterwards?

However that price for only five second rate games? Really really bad value, in my opinion. Where are the classic C64 games?

Shouldn't it be [sigh] ?
post #12 of 67
Hmm, this is kind of off-topic but while browsing the iTunes Store (iTunes 8) for C64, I noticed what appears to be a subtle style change of iTunes Store...list titles, I guess you'd call them.

Here's one example:

The look of the blue title bar is what I'm referring to specifically.

You can see the old 'glass'-style list title bars in this old iTunes tutorial video:
http://www.apple.com/itunes/tutorial...wnloadmoviestv


I don't remember seeing this change until today (and I frequent the iTunes Store). Could it be a hint of changes coming in iTunes 9 at Apple's iPod event Tuesday?
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #13 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Hmm, this is kind of off-topic but while browsing the iTunes Store (iTunes 8) for C64, I noticed what appears to be a subtle style change of iTunes Store...list titles, I guess you'd call them.

Here's one example:

The look of the blue title bar is what I'm referring to specifically.

You can see the old 'glass' style list titles in this video:
http://www.apple.com/itunes/tutorial...wnloadmoviestv


I don't remember seeing this change until today (and I frequent the iTunes Store). Could it be a hint of changes coming in iTunes 9 at Apple's iPod event Tuesday?

The older ones were terrible, never liked them. You may need to get a life though.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #14 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknick View Post

Ha!

> LOAD $,8,1
>PRESS PLAY ON TAPE



?SYNTAX ERROR

8 was a device identifier: the first floppy disk as it happens. The filename was also enclosed in double quotes. So you'd never get that message but the nostalgia certainly gave me a smile.
post #15 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The older ones were terrible, never liked them.

Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You may need to get a life though.

You're telling me.

My point wasn't about the change so much as it was about this potentially being a sign of larger changes coming to iTunes and/or the Store.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #16 of 67
Where is my Commodore Amiga emulator?

This is pretty cool though.
post #17 of 67
OK, now this is awesome. Roll on SNES and SuperMetroid/Castlevania VII.

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #18 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

OK, now this is awesome. Roll on SNES and SuperMetroid/Castlevania VII.

Over Nintendo's dead body.


...At least until Apple acquires them (come on, it's all but inevitable, isn't it!?).
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You may need to get a life though.

Says he with nearly 8,000 posts.
post #20 of 67
oh yeah!!!!
Happy DiNo ***MAC Pro*** 2X 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 32GB RAM Mac Pro RAID Card 2 X 300GB 15,000-rpm SAS 2 X 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3GB/s NVIDIAQuadro FX 5600 1.5GB 2X 16x S-Drives AirPort...
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Happy DiNo ***MAC Pro*** 2X 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 32GB RAM Mac Pro RAID Card 2 X 300GB 15,000-rpm SAS 2 X 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3GB/s NVIDIAQuadro FX 5600 1.5GB 2X 16x S-Drives AirPort...
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post #21 of 67
Is there an Apple ][ emulator out yet?

I remember having a fairly good one installed on my Windows Mobile device. It was actually possible to play Choplifter, which had a tricky joystick control scheme..

Almost certainly it's in the jailbreak world, I guess, but it would be pretty cool if there was an officially sanctioned one in the App Store. If you can be nostalgic for C64, why not Apple ][.
post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I would buy it if it had games I remember as a kid, but I don't know what any of those 5 are. I remember International Karate but that's not one of the 5.

Yeah. I remember my Commodore 64 fondly. I still use the monitor today and it still works!

But I never heard of any of these games, and hardly played games at all on it anyway. Emulating the word processor, or some of the drawing programs, or providing a way to load programs onto it that aren't bought through the Apple store would be far more useful.

I had a 3D wireframe drawing program that I still have object files for that I spent hundreds of hours creating and probably a few disks of word processing files that I wouldn't mind seeing again, although I can't even remember the name of the program now.
post #23 of 67
>Today, Apple's notebook line has virtually no expansion options

Exactly what can't you do with a USB port that you could do with the MacBook's card slot? The list has become vanishingly small...or at least, vanishingly small in proportion to the number of people that require the few expansion options required by a card slot.
post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

OK, now this is awesome. Roll on SNES and SuperMetroid/Castlevania VII.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Over Nintendo's dead body.

...At least until Apple acquires them (come on, it's all but inevitable, isn't it!?).

It's been a long time since Nintendo has put one of their games onto a non-Nintendo device. Wasn't there a Donkey Kong or Mario on Commodore or Apple ][? Once they had their own popularhardware, they haven't needed to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

"Don't despair" is the correct English for this situation. Why is there a "[sic]" afterwards?

I agree, it's odd. For those that don't know, [sic] is supposed to mean "this is exactly what they said", usually so the person doing the quoting is aware that there is a question about the original quote. It's usually used when there are grammar or spelling issues. It is spelled and used properly but Prince seems to think that a much less logical and conventional word was intended, or he doesn't know what despair or disappear means. If it's not that, then It seems to me that Prince is trying to insert his own agenda into the comment, or to try to increase the article's word count.
post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmaletic View Post

>Today, Apple's notebook line has virtually no expansion options

Exactly what can't you do with a USB port that you could do with the MacBook's card slot? The list has become vanishingly small...or at least, vanishingly small in proportion to the number of people that require the few expansion options required by a card slot.

You are right in a sense, USB is even one of the modes that a card can communicate with the computer.

I like having it because that's what the SxS solid state video format uses for a physical and electrical connection, and it's faster than what USB can provide. If I ever get a cellular modem, I would prefer it to be internal rather than an external, easy to lose or easy to break lever. Or for eSATA. Other than those three uses, I don't know. At least It's on the 17".
post #26 of 67
Quote:
As for the iPhone and iPod touch, Apple doesn't include either a user-replaceable battery or a RAM slot, leaving the mobile devices tied, much like the Commodore 64, to a single interface for games and apps. For the C64, that was its difficult-to-pirate cartridge slot; for the iPhone, it's the digital rights management of iTunes. Which now offers the ability to act as a C64.

I hardly ever saw cartridges for the C64. Although they existed, most software by far was availible on Tape and Floppy Disc. I'd even venture so far as to say that rampant software piracy on the C64 was a contributor to it's hardware sales success. The same could be said for the Playstation 1 and 2 line with modchips and easy blank CD or DVD copies. (not so with PS3 blueray)

In fact - while not piracy, the free or only $0.99 AppStore mentally is undoubtedly a huge driver or hardware sales for both iPhone and iPod Touch.

Apple has shown with Snow Leopard and even Logic Express and Studio that people will pay for great value for money software, even if there isn't any copy protection. I've never purchased Microsoft Windows as I disagree with the per machine tie in, I replace my computer maybe once or twice per year, why keep paying for a new OS version?
post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Says he with nearly 8,000 posts.

Yeah, but the type of gloss on the buttons on the iTunes Store!? Flip that.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Under what contrived reasoning would they be thought of as meaning "disappear"? That makes much less sense to assume disappear, grammatically speaking. The sic seems to be unnecessary too, it is spelled properly ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompy View Post

Note author of article. That contrived reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

I’m with you. The usage is conventional, thus making the meaning unmistakable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

"Don't despair" is the correct English for this situation. Why is there a "[sic]" afterwards? ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo View Post

Shouldn't it be [sigh] ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

... I agree, it's odd. For those that don't know, [sic] is supposed to mean "this is exactly what they said", usually so the person doing the quoting is aware that there is a question about the original quote. It's usually used when there are grammar or spelling issues. It is spelled and used properly but Prince seems to think that a much less logical and conventional word was intended, or he doesn't know what despair or disappear means. If it's not that, then It seems to me that Prince is trying to insert his own agenda into the comment, or to try to increase the article's word count.

If any of you had bothered to watch the video closely instead of just jumping up and down on Daniel you might have noticed that the opening screen for the app, when talking about the absence of the BASIC emulator, says ... "DON'T DESPEAR"

The gigantic, unforgivable, he-should-be-burned-at-the-stake "mistake" you are complaining about was only that Prince failed to notice that his spell checker corrected the mistake for him or that perhaps an editor did after the fact.

But of course no one here has a bias against him do they? noooo, of course not.

Maybe people should check things out before they start jumping to conclusions eh?
post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

That looks really cool!

I had a ZX Spectrum as a kid though, so I'm going to hold out and hope someone comes up with a similar emulator for that.

I had TI-994A at the time the Vic20 and Commodore 64 were on the market. The games for the TI were neat at the time but I couldn't care less to revisit them. I wasted enough time as a kid playing them.
post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelb View Post

Is there an Apple ][ emulator out yet?

How much you wanna bet Steve would sue! lol

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I had TI-994A at the time the Vic20 and Commodore 64 were on the market. The games for the TI were neat at the time but I couldn't care less to revisit them. I wasted enough time as a kid playing them.

Brothers from different mothers!

Tho I went from a PDP11 and PET-CBM (in school) to a Vic20 --> C64

After that it was ALL down hill!

Bring back M.U.L.E. before it's too late!

Just thinking of that game and now I've got the sound track stuck in my brain...

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
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post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Says he with nearly 8,000 posts.

pwned
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

If any of you had bothered to watch the video closely instead of just jumping up and down on Daniel you might have noticed that the opening screen for the app, when talking about the absence of the BASIC emulator, says ... "DON'T DESPEAR"

At what time in this video does it say that? I'm not questioning whether it's in there or not, I simply haven't found it.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #34 of 67
I think we might be able to run our own games. I found that if I enabled the always show full keyboard then launch say Dragons Den then hit reset I get a basic prompt. Now this is where it gets interesting.

I did a load "*" then typed run and it loaded up Dragons Den but this time I was greeted by a 'REMEMBER' loading screen with a scroller and all the options for infinite lives etc. So it is still just loading disc images. Interesting stuff I will let you all know once I have had a bit more of a fiddle.

UPDATE: Load "*" Seems to always load Dragons Den. Might see if there's a way to replace it on the device.
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

If any of you had bothered to watch the video closely instead of just jumping up and down on Daniel you might have noticed that the opening screen for the app, when talking about the absence of the BASIC emulator, says ... "DON'T DESPEAR"

It only makes sense if it was written as…

Don't despear [sic]! It should be resolved in a future update." Whether the company meant "despair" or "disappear,”

..hence the confusion.
post #36 of 67
IT WORKS! I have it loading other disc images! I used Iphone Browser to replace DragonsD.D64 with Bubble Bobble but I gave it the same Filename as Dragons Den. I ran Dragons Den from the game list and Dragons Den loads up. Then press the RESET button on the extra keyboard and from the prompt type Load "*" then type run and BINGO! It loaded Bubble Bobble!
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

It only makes sense if it was written as

Don't despear [sic]! It should be resolved in a future update." Whether the company meant "despair" or "disappear,

..hence the confusion.

The article was corrected for despear, which better explains the [sic], but how seemingly equal weight would be given to despair and disappear is beyond me, one is a somewhat well known phrase for reassurance, I can't say I've heard or read of anyone saying "don't disappear" in any context.
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The article was corrected for despear, which better explains the [sic], but how seemingly equal weight would be given to despair and disappear is beyond me, one is a somewhat well known phrase for reassurance, I can't say I've heard or read of anyone saying "don't disappear" in any context.

I checked that on the forum article which has yet to be changed as i type this. Ive heard the phrade, Dont disappear in the context of telling me to not go anywhere, but the context of the quoted text makes it obvious what is means. Anyway, enough on all this, were getting off track and its not Teckstuds fault for once. Back to our regularly scheduled program


So, is the in-app purchase available for this game yet? Is there news of what games will be next? Id consider getting this app if the games being offered appealed to me. How does play into other emulators being offered. I had tens of thousands(?) of emulated games on my hacked Xbox back in the day via Maemo?
post #39 of 67
I have succesfully got it running any games I want. I have also succeeded in adding my own links from the game menu with the pictures etc so I can simply click run to launch any game I want. I was disappointed at first when there was no basic and the games that came with it were average....

But now that I can use it for any games I want its amazing :P
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I had TI-994A at the time the Vic20 and Commodore 64 were on the market. The games for the TI were neat at the time but I couldn't care less to revisit them. I wasted enough time as a kid playing them.

Yeah I know what you mean. I started on a Sinclair ZX81, then the Spectrum, then a CBM Amiga 500, Amiga 1200, multiple PC's from the 486 era onwards and finally Macs from 2005.

For all I love my Macs now, I look back so fondly at those old machines that I'd like to see some emulated (the ZX81 and Spectrum are well emulated already).

This will get me flamed on this website, but I still think the Amiga was at the time the greatest computer available - a simply stunning machine.
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