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Technical issues could delay iPod camera upgrade

post #1 of 84
Thread Starter 
Just days before Apple is expected to unveil its new line of iPods, multiple reports are suggesting that some of the widely anticipated camera-equipped media players could be delayed due to technical difficulties. [Updated with info from Hardmac.]

A person with a strong track record in predicting Apple's upcoming product launches recently told AppleInsider that the iPod maker has experienced technical problems (bad parts) with the cameras modules. The person said that it was uncertain whether the new hardware, which has been widely expected to debut at Wednesday's "Only rock and roll" media-centric event, would make the cut for early September retail distribution.

The report echos one published earlier Monday by Hardmac, the English-language version of French Apple news site Macbidouille.

For months, photos of third-party cases for the iPod touch and iPod nano with camera holes have been surfacing online, leading most to believe that the new hardware was essentially a foregone conclusion at the Sept. 9 keynote. Though there have been no such cases to support a similar upgrade for the iPod classic, one rumor has implied Apple's only hard drive-based player could also see a photographic upgrade. At the time, reports suggested that the line would be receiving 3.2 megapixel CMOS image sensors -- the same lens currently available in the iPhone 3GS.

Rumors of the camera upgrade cropped up long before the case evidence surfaced, but in recent months the evidence has become more convincing. One person even took photos and video of what was alleged to be a third-generation iPod touch prototype with a camera. That person even provided a teardown of the device, showing its inner workings.

With the latest tip provided to AppleInsider, it is unclear whether the debut of iPods with cameras has been scrapped from the Sept. 9 event entirely, or if the products will simply not be available for sale for some time after an unveiling.



Apple's long-rumored tablet device, with a 10-inch touchscreen and 3G connectivity, is not expected to be at Wednesday's event. That product will likely see its debut in early 2010.
post #2 of 84
I have to believe that Apple is announcing new iPods on Wednesday and that there is no problem with the hardware. Why have the event if the iPods aren't really ready.
post #3 of 84
And who is this so-called BS source that claims to have a strong track record in predicting Apple products? Here is why this story is full of it: The camera already works fine in the iPhone, so why would there be a technical problem adding it to an iPod Touch?

If you are going to post this BS as a story, at least post the moron who is making this up.

Must suck for you to be working on Labor Day.
post #4 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

I have to believe that Apple is announcing new iPods on Wednesday and that there is no problem with the hardware. Why have the event if the iPods aren't really ready.

Indeed. "experienced technical problems with the cameras months ago" - why would they announce an event months later if they hadn't fixed it?

Maybe there was a problem - remember the rumours that Apple bought loads of 5MP cameras? Maybe those cameras had the problems, so Apple used 3.2MP cameras in the iPhone 3GS and in the upcoming iPod Touch instead of the 5MP cameras.
post #5 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

And who is this so-called BS source that claims to have a strong track record in predicting Apple products? Here is why this story is full of it: The camera already works fine in the iPhone, so why would there be a technical problem adding it to an iPod Touch?

If you are going to post this BS as a story, at least post the moron who is making this up.

Must suck for you to be working on Labor Day.

Wow, you might wanna cut back on the hostility.
post #6 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hookedonitunes View Post

Wow, you might wanna cut back on the hostility.

Why would AppleInsider post a story without revealing the source of the information? They have no problem revealing the bullshit stories from the two financial morons that they always quote. Instead they claim the source mostly gets things right, which means all the other times their source of full of shit.

All this story will do is make the gullible people (almost all of them here) believe this fake story. Apple has never had a problem with the cameras in the iPhone, so it makes no sense to claim they can't get it to work in an iPod Touch, especially days before the release date.
post #7 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

At the time, reports suggested that the line would be receiving 3.2 megapixel CMOS image sensors -- the same lens currently available in the iPhone 3GS.

Please fix that sentence to remove lens. Why would you use the technical term CMOS image sensor and then wrongly label it a lens? The writing here really seems to be lacking of late.

@hillstones... Simma down now. No one made you read this. And the source in this case is quite obviously anonymous because they're supplying info directly to AI. The "financial morons" you talk about are two highly regarded analysts who make public predictions as a part of investor guidance reports. Haven't you ever seen/read a real news organization quote an anonymous source?
post #8 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Why would AppleInsider post a story without revealing the source of the information? They have no problem revealing the bullshit stories from the two financial morons that they always quote. Instead they claim the source mostly gets things right, which means all the other times their source of full of shit.

All this story will do is make the gullible people (almost all of them here) believe this fake story. Apple has never had a problem with the cameras in the iPhone, so it makes no sense to claim they can't get it to work in an iPod Touch, especially days before the release date.

Why do you care enough to get so pissed? Get a life man.

And if it is true are you going to come back and kiss Kaspers ass?
post #9 of 84
If this is true, they'll probably just say "shipping in October" or whenever and play it off like that was always the plan. The only thing I can think of is if the part just wasn't working as Apple wanted it to, I don't see how they'd have trouble with adding the camera to the device.
post #10 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Why would AppleInsider post a story without revealing the source of the information? They have no problem revealing the bullshit stories from the two financial morons that they always quote. Instead they claim the source mostly gets things right, which means all the other times their source of full of shit.

All this story will do is make the gullible people (almost all of them here) believe this fake story. Apple has never had a problem with the cameras in the iPhone, so it makes no sense to claim they can't get it to work in an iPod Touch, especially days before the release date.

AppleInsider and John Gruber are the two best sources when it comes to Apple. As for revealing their sources, they don't have to. They have a proven track record of being mostly right. They may make a news story about what analysts may say but that is different from the story coming from their own source. I don't exactly how you expect them to name a source considering Apple is such a tight-lipped company and would immediately fire and/or sue the person.

Your argument in the second paragraph makes far more sense and it is hard for me to believe they would hold an iPod event without the touch.
post #11 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

At the time, reports suggested that the line would be receiving 3.2 megapixel CMOS image sensors -- the same lens currently available in the iPhone 3GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floccus View Post

Please fix that sentence to remove lens. Why would you use the technical term CMOS image sensor and then wrongly label it a lens?

The problem might be that "--" should be something like "as well as" or "along with", meaning the new iPods will have the same autofocus lens currently available in the iPhone rather than a fixed-focus lens.
post #12 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by floccus View Post

@hillstones... Simma down now. No one made you read this. And the source in this case is quite obviously anonymous because they're supplying info directly to AI. The "financial morons" you talk about are two highly regarded analysts who make public predictions as a part of investor guidance reports. Haven't you ever seen/read a real news organization quote an anonymous source?

Yeah, ask Dan Rather about quoting anonymous sources. Or ask Engadget. Or ask all those sites that said Steve Jobs was dying and wouldn't live more than a few more months. Or the anonymous source who said the original iPhone was going to be delayed. Or a million other "anonymous source" stories on the internet that have been total BS.
post #13 of 84
Quote from and Article posted this morning on 9to5Mac.

Quote:
French Mac Website HardMac (MacBidouille to Francophiles) is reporting that there might be some production problems slowing down the release of the new iPod touch products related to the new 3.2megapixel camera module. They postulate that the issue could cause delays in delivery of camera-toting iPods.

Reported on 9to5Mac.com (which has to be the most unreliable source for mac news on the web).
post #14 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Yeah, ask Dan Rather about quoting anonymous sources. Or ask Engadget. Or ask all those sites that said Steve Jobs was dying and wouldn't live more than a few more months.

How long does a human live without a functioning liver?
post #15 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Yeah, ask Dan Rather about quoting anonymous sources. Or ask Engadget. Or ask all those sites that said Steve Jobs was dying and wouldn't live more than a few more months. Or the anonymous source who said the original iPhone was going to be delayed. Or a million other "anonymous source" stories on the internet that have been total BS.

The story I believe you are talking about was from Gizmodo and they said he was very ill, not dying and that story actually turned to be right. Jobs went on sick leave not too long after that. Like I said before, the difference between those other sites and AppleInsider is that they have a proven track record of being mostly right.

You can talk badly about anonymous sources but all of journalism is built around it. You take them seriously when they have a record. It would be nice if would could live in a world where there is no retaliation on sources but that isn't the case. Sources will not go on the record if they believe they would be hurt by it.
post #16 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

How long does a human live without a functioning liver?

a few months?
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post #17 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Why would AppleInsider post a story without revealing the source of the information? They have no problem revealing the bullshit stories from the two financial morons that they always quote. Instead they claim the source mostly gets things right, which means all the other times their source of full of shit.

All this story will do is make the gullible people (almost all of them here) believe this fake story. Apple has never had a problem with the cameras in the iPhone, so it makes no sense to claim they can't get it to work in an iPod Touch, especially days before the release date.

Isn't this a rumour website? You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously. Lighten up. We'll all soon find out what Apple have up their sleeves in due course. In the meantime enjoy the hype up and go with the flow.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #18 of 84
Heck, they WILL announce the NEW iPods and will just let us know that they will be ready to ship
(X?).

If it has any issues, this will allow them time to fix it or them, yet still hold face, by making these EXCITING announcements.

Skip
post #19 of 84
Yeah, it's not as if Apple hadn't manufactured an iPod or let alone an iPhone with a camera in it?

This story reads like a, I want as many hits on my website as possible story.

IF, iPods get cameras I sincerely doubt Apple could screw up it's implementation and manufacturing of the unit. The software is done for years already.

AppleInsider? THIS story is a waste of your time. Let along mine and ALL the readers of this site. Which I have to rethink coming too. But on a holiday, anything to get hits I imagine. Pathetic reporting.
post #20 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

Why have the event if the iPods aren't really ready.

To announce that it'll be available a couple of weeks hence?

And if you can't muster the patience wait for it, you should get something else.

I sometimes have a really tough time understanding the I-must-have-it-all-yesterday folks.
post #21 of 84
Outside of a simple technical issue with the production line and getting it ramped up, which can happen, the only issue I can think of would be due to the thickness of the touch. The iPhone is 50% thicker than the touch (8.5 vs 12.3 mm), and if they place the camera near the top end like it is on the iPhone, it's even thinner due to how tapered the touch is.

Yes, you can put a very short camera module in very thin devices, but the shorter it is the harder to get good photo quality. Anyone know the length of the camera module in the iPhone? Maybe the hand-built prototypes were fine, but the automated assembly line is having problems with the close tolerances cramming it all in such a thin device and needs some fine tuning.

Or maybe they just made some last minute design changes to avoid the French ones from exploding!
post #22 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The story I believe you are talking about was from Gizmodo and they said he was very ill, not dying and that story actually turned to be right. Jobs went on sick leave not too long after that. ....

Gizmodo has a reputation not only for being wrong a lot of the time, but for just making stuff up wholesale as well. They are one of the least reliable sources of all and the most likely to print almost anything that comes their way.

The story you reference above about Steve Jobs' health is a prime example. It was published at the height of speculation about Steve Jobs' health, (the best time to cash in on web hits), and they not only said he was very ill, they implied that he was dying, and that everyone at Apple knew this. They stated categorically that he would *never* return to Apple. They made out like they had some inside information, but in the end they were completely wrong about almost everything.

John Gruber has called Brian Lam from Gizmodo a "hack," and he's right. Gizmodo has no real inside information and just prints whatever rumours that come their way without (apparently), any fact checking at all. Anyone can set up a blog and just repeat the rumours that people email them.

Worse, some of their stories seem to be just their own wild speculation (based on this same un-sourced and unchecked information), even though they are often presented as "factual."
post #23 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Why would AppleInsider post a story without revealing the source of the information? They have no problem revealing the bullshit stories from the two financial morons that they always quote. Instead they claim the source mostly gets things right, which means all the other times their source of full of shit.

All this story will do is make the gullible people (almost all of them here) believe this fake story. Apple has never had a problem with the cameras in the iPhone, so it makes no sense to claim they can't get it to work in an iPod Touch, especially days before the release date.

The story may or may not make sense. But journalism (whether as a producer or as a consumer of it) works this way: As a reporter, when you can you attribute your stories, and as a reader you value the information depending upon the credibility of the identified source. As a reporter, if you have a source who's proven reliable in the past but refuses to be quoted, you may choose to publish the story, specifying for the reader's benefit the past reliability of that source, and as a reader, you value the information depending upon the credibility of the news source, rather than of the source himself/herself. That's pretty standard. Your response doesn't acknowledge that--and has been pointed out by others, is unduly hostile, town-meeting kind of static obscuring the discussion.
post #24 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Yeah, ask Dan Rather about quoting anonymous sources. Or ask Engadget. Or ask all those sites that said Steve Jobs was dying and wouldn't live more than a few more months. Or the anonymous source who said the original iPhone was going to be delayed. Or a million other "anonymous source" stories on the internet that have been total BS.

We should always apply our best critical skills when we read. That doesn't mean every piece of info from an anonymous source is untrue. What about the other "anonymous source" stories that haven't turned out to be BS? Are you old enough to remember events as the watergate scandal unfolded? each story was sourced anonymously ("deep throat") and attacked by critics as nothing but lies--and each story proved to be true. The history of journalism is littered (decorated?) with such events. I agree with your advocacy of skepticism, I just think you've taken an all-or-nothing position on a topic that's more nuanced than that.
post #25 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

AppleInsider? THIS story is a waste of your time. Let along mine and ALL the readers of this site. Which I have to rethink coming too. But on a holiday, anything to get hits I imagine. Pathetic reporting.


Hmmm... A post count of one. Your absence will be heartbreaking, but we'll struggle on somehow.

Ciao
post #26 of 84
Aww come on. surely you understand the Apple strategy. The need it now pro-sumer attitude has kept companies intact for decades. So what if the silly camera don't work. Go take a cold shower. I know that the engineers at Apple have been pushed to the limit and beyond.There's a lot of head shaking going on on campus.
post #27 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

...This story reads like a, I want as many hits on my website as possible story....AppleInsider? THIS story is a waste of your time. Let along (sic) mine and ALL the readers of this site...on a holiday, anything to get hits I imagine. Pathetic reporting.

Let me ask you a question. Suppose you publish a blog about things Apple. Suppose you have the highest of standards and principles. Suppose your desire, above all else, is to give your readers the very best information and insights possible into things Apple. (I'm not saying AI is all that, i'm just asking you to flow with this hypothetical).

Now, suppose you hear from a source who has on, let's say, 3 occasions in the past, given you information that you did not publish, but which to even your surprise, proved to be spot on. Suppose the source hasn't been wrong yet.

So you get this information about the camera problems. Do you say nothing about it? Do you publish it as fact? Based on the source's past accuracy with you, do you report what he/she's said this time, while telling your readers of the track record? How would YOU handle it, if someone you believed had an inside line on apple news, came to you with this report, and if you were a writer/editor for a blog about things apple?
post #28 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

AppleInsider? THIS story is a waste of your time. Let along mine and ALL the readers of this site. Which I have to rethink coming too. But on a holiday, anything to get hits I imagine. Pathetic reporting.

Please don't speak for everyone on this site. Also, take your meds.
post #29 of 84
That is right guys, this is a rumors and forums site, everything is speculation until proven right. As to the camera, why isn't it possible to have a problem with the device? Every product ramp up runs into issues, Apple is not immune.

As to Touch delays let's hope not but let's not be surprised either.



Dave
post #30 of 84
Since we're being all snarky and rude and feeding the trolls in this thread, I'll join in too.

"the iPod maker has experienced technical problems (bad parts) with the cameras modules."

Apparently a lot of you commenting have failed basic reading comprehension. "Bad parts" means Apple's third-party supplier - the actual manufacturer of said parts, the one Apple buys the parts from - delivered a shipment of BAD, i.e. not functioning as they should, parts. Apple may have manufactured a whole bunch of new iPods and in final testing it turned up that something in the camera modules was not performing to spec. Perhaps Apple tests every X in 1000 units. A larger than expected percentage of them may have come up "bad" - which led to more testing of more units - which also came up "bad". Thus "technical problems (bad parts)". So Apple designed the product, prototyped the product using hand selected "good" parts, ramped up production with a massive order of bulk parts. In final quality checks, it turned out that some part was not performing as expected, i.e. "bad". Apple did nothing wrong. They got bit by a failure on the part of one of their suppliers. Why is that hard to understand?

This puts Apple in a tough spot. Do they ship a bunch of product with known defects (*cough* XBox 360 *cough*) and budget in fixing/replacing a whole bunch of them - thus tarnishing their image? Or do they delay shipping and fix the units before they go out?

- Jasen.
post #31 of 84
I took my meds today. And, I never felt the need to post here before so I registered to respond. God forbid. I'm sure AppleInsider likes another registered user? But I'll be happy to delete my registration if this is the level of reporting we get.

The story is reported like Apple hasn't the ability to put a camera in an iPod. Rumor site or not. It's really a nothing story. And if it was not a holiday, this site normally wouldn't report something like this. But as long as any Apple story generates hits? By all means publish anything.

Cio
post #32 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Since we're being all snarky and rude and feeding the trolls in this thread, I'll join in too.

"the iPod maker has experienced technical problems (bad parts) with the cameras modules."

Apparently a lot of you commenting have failed basic reading comprehension. "Bad parts" means Apple's third-party supplier - the actual manufacturer of said parts, the one Apple buys the parts from - delivered a shipment of BAD, i.e. not functioning as they should, parts. Apple may have manufactured a whole bunch of new iPods and in final testing it turned up that something in the camera modules was not performing to spec. Perhaps Apple tests every X in 1000 units. A larger than expected percentage of them may have come up "bad" - which led to more testing of more units - which also came up "bad". Thus "technical problems (bad parts)". So Apple designed the product, prototyped the product using hand selected "good" parts, ramped up production with a massive order of bulk parts. In final quality checks, it turned out that some part was not performing as expected, i.e. "bad". Apple did nothing wrong. They got bit by a failure on the part of one of their suppliers. Why is that hard to understand?

This puts Apple in a tough spot. Do they ship a bunch of product with known defects (*cough* XBox 360 *cough*) and budget in fixing/replacing a whole bunch of them - thus tarnishing their image? Or do they delay shipping and fix the units before they go out?

- Jasen.

Cough, Cough...

You mean like Snow Leapord? The 1,000's of posting on Apples website with problems with it. No worry, they're already working on 10.6.1, which should actually be the Golden Master.

They chose not to and it's caused havoc with users. Google OSX Snow Leapord Problems.
post #33 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

To announce that it'll be available a couple of weeks hence?


aside from the iphone, which has all sorts of FCC details and contract issues etc, have they ever announced an ipod that would be available 'in a couple of weeks'. I can't recall. at least not in the last couple of years.

Also, i rather doubt that they would have set the date for the big day if they didn't know they had the product in the bag. cause what if they said things would roll on Oct 1 but the problem was bigger than they thought., they look like chumps delaying the release.

Also, I have to agree with the folks giving the thumbs down. mainly because of the wording. it is one thing to have a source, it is another to 'protest too much' trying to convince us of said sources worth. "AppleInsider has received reports that" would have been enough in my opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard KKN View Post

I also heard that Apple wanna focus on iPod Touch more, and iPod only keep the Nano series.

it does make sense. the Classic is only around for the capacity hogs. when you can have a nano or a touch with 60GB+ the Classic will be on the death march

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #34 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Indeed. "experienced technical problems with the cameras months ago" - why would they announce an event months later if they hadn't fixed it?

Maybe there was a problem - remember the rumours that Apple bought loads of 5MP cameras? Maybe those cameras had the problems, so Apple used 3.2MP cameras in the iPhone 3GS and in the upcoming iPod Touch instead of the 5MP cameras.


it will just "slip" through QA just like the long list of other issues i read about
post #35 of 84
If any of you have paid attention, Apple always under-promises, and over-delivers. I doubt they would stretch their proverbial neck out to make a fuss over something when it's not ready.
post #36 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

Cough, Cough...

You mean like Snow Leapord? The 1,000's of posting on Apples website with problems with it. No worry, they're already working on 10.6.1, which should actually be the Golden Master.

They chose not to and it's caused havoc with users. Google OSX Snow Leapord Problems.

there are not 1000s of postings. probably barely 1000.

I myself have done several installs for myself and friends and not one problem. and for every problem post I have seen, here and elsewhere, there have been 2-5 posts that everything worked perfectly.

as for the 10.6.1 comment, there is no way that Apple can test every one of the hundreds of possible configs to avoid all problems. anyone that has spent any time with computers knows this. so even if what will be 10.6.1 was the GM, there would be another half dozen issues for a point release. and i'm talking real issues, not HP didn't update the driver for that printer, Wacom didn't bother to update their tablet driver, so and so didn't test and update their software etc stuff that is outside of Apple's control.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

I took my meds today. And, I never felt the need to post here before so I registered to respond. God forbid. I'm sure AppleInsider likes another registered user? But I'll be happy to delete my registration if this is the level of reporting we get.

Cio

Ciao to you too!
post #38 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

Cough, Cough...

You mean like Snow Leapord? The 1,000's of posting on Apples website with problems with it. No worry, they're already working on 10.6.1, which should actually be the Golden Master.

They chose not to and it's caused havoc with users. Google OSX Snow Leapord Problems.

Stop talking nonsense. Have you upgraded to SL? If not, shut up.

I upgraded four computers to SL at home today (three from Leopard, one from Tiger) and each one went flawlessly. I am blown away by how Apple has delivered.

PS: Btw, please take the trouble to do a spell-check on how the animal's name is spelled.
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

aside from the iphone, which has all sorts of FCC details and contract issues etc, have they ever announced an ipod that would be available 'in a couple of weeks'. I can't recall. at least not in the last couple of years.

Also, i rather doubt that they would have set the date for the big day .... blah blah...

Apple has said nothing about much of anything.

Everything about this event is our collective hyperventilation.
post #40 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

The story is reported like Apple hasn't the ability to put a camera in an iPod.

No, the story is reported like Apple got a batch of BAD PARTS - flawed, broken, not working like they should, B. A. D. - from a supplier. Apple's ready to launch a significant new product and the thing gets screwed up because of a supplier's error. That is a significant story.

- Jasen.
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