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bin Laden videotape...

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 


<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/</a>

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40746,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40746,00.html</a>

Quote from transcript:

"We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors; I was the most optimistic of them all.

"Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This was all that we had hoped for."



Any of you prudent, well-thought-out types who've spent three months sitting on your hands and calling for "evidence" and "not rushing to judgement" like to comment now?

I hope someone kills this gloating, warped cocksucker.
post #2 of 37
Not to say "I told you so" cause I think most anyone with a brain thought Osama had something to do with it. Some where arguing that even though that is the case there was no proof. Just like every one (well most) thinks OJ did it.

Now we have the proof. There should be no complaining about this anymore.
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
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post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 
Well, in a perfect world...
post #4 of 37
What got me from the start and was "reopened" with this tape was what a gross miscalculation these people made. They're so smug. They actually think some kind of "jihad" was going to happen and that they would win? Were/are they that diluted or were they just talking the talk? Not all of them could be dumb enough to think that they would "win"?

The Taliban's horrible blunder was that they allowed some murder suicide cult to set foreign policy for them. bin Ladens horrible blunder was thinking the US would do anything short of wiping him out and also thinking the "Arab Street" would join his side and that they would be able to do anything against us even if they wanted to.


WTF were these people thinking?


I know I know they're "crazy" but I still don't get it.

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #5 of 37
[quote]Any of you prudent, well-thought-out types who've spent three months sitting on your hands and calling for "evidence" and "not rushing to judgement" like to comment now?<hr></blockquote>

btw, bin Laden's guilt was evident from that original Al Jazeera videotape, released shortly after 9-11 where he more or less admitted that he (al Qaeda) was responsible for the attacks. The Bush administration wasted no time in going after al Qaeda in Afghanistan; there was no hanging around, and military preparations were under way whilst the dust was still settling over Manhattan.

But evidence or otherwise, I am sure 'relieved' that we got it right, re. bin Laden. If it had been another party responsible, and we had ignored them, then that would have been a very major oops. There is everything right in being prudent and meticulous in drawing up a case; any lawyer will tell you that, rather than resorting to the initial knee-jerking response in our blind but understandable anger. Making an embarrassing and expensive international blunder in the name of 'yahooism' is really not in our best interest.
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #6 of 37
I had origionally Posted about this in the Egypt's Big Mouth thread.

[quote]I don't think this needs a new thread but we have video evidence that bin Laden planned it from his own mouth.

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20011213/us/afghan_bin_laden_tape_6.html" target="_blank">http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20011213/us/afghan_bin_laden_tape_6.html</a>

But that will not be enough to shut the mouths of those who condone terrorism as a legitimate means to an end. I hope they catch him and throw him in the general prison population somewhere. After the inmates have their fun with him they should publicly execute the SOB. <hr></blockquote>

and then

[quote]Here is the Transcript for those who want to read it.

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011213/us/bin_laden_tape_text_2.html" target="_blank">http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011213/us/bin_laden_tape_text_2.html</a>

Bastard! <hr></blockquote>

and last of all

[quote]Or here as well for the government copy in PDF Format.

<a href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2001/d20011213ubl.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2001/d20011213ubl.pdf</a> <hr></blockquote>
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #7 of 37
Thread Starter 
Yes, I know. I'm just hoping that perhaps this video - hearing it all from the horse's mouth, so to speak - may serve to unify us a bit more and pull in those who were never quite convinced.

And there were a few of them out there too.
post #8 of 37
While I'm sure Osama the goat molester was involved in the 9-11 attacks, I am also sure this videotape is more or less him trying to rub it in our faces, as opposed to a genuine conversation that he never anticipated we would find.

For starters the tape was made in November. Plenty of time to get wind of all of our commentaries about OBL and his plot.

Secondly, it just doesn't read like a normal conversation. It's almost like he calculated everything he would say to mirror our news commentary.

He said something to the effect of "given my experience in this area (how many other buildings have been rammed by jets?) I new the fuel would melt the metal structure and bring the floors above down, blah blah."

That to me is a dead giveaway it was staged in a way. You can call this asshole want you want, but my guess is he didn't know squat about jet fuel fires, or about the structural workings of the WTC. He listened to our news, found out what enraged us the most, and then just repeated it back for effect.

And all the stuff about muslims in Holland sounded like a load too. Basically he just repeated everything we had theororized about to be defiant, etc. Personally I don't give a damn about the tape. The ****er deserves to die whether we have a tape or not.
Aldo is watching....
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Aldo is watching....
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post #9 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>Yes, I know. I'm just hoping that perhaps this video - hearing it all from the horse's mouth, so to speak - may serve to unify us a bit more and pull in those who were never quite convinced.

And there were a few of them out there too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Except for the ones who feel that America deserves it for being such a great place to live while the rest of the world lives in squalor.

You will never get everyone, even those who live in the US, to fully get behind us in this. I gave up on trying in the couple of weeks after the WTC were destroyed. My opinion of bleeding heart wackos has taken an even bigger hit due to this (I never thought that would be possible.)
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #10 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:
<strong>He said something to the effect of "given my experience in this area (how many other buildings have been rammed by jets?) I new the fuel would melt the metal structure and bring the floors above down, blah blah." </strong><hr></blockquote>

His "experience" is in construction and buildings. He knows what fire will do to a steel structure.
post #11 of 37
Does anyone else wonder how a tape of bin Laden, from one month ago, got into Pakistan? And what does that mean about people, including possibly bin Laden, moving freely between Pakistan and Afghanistan?
post #12 of 37
OBL's parents are rich because of the construction industry, and OBL has an education in engineering, this is his "experience in these matters".


I think that if it is real, which I am pretty certain that it is, it has the ring of formality for several reasons:
1. OBL takes himself to be some sort of 'annointed one' and talks in a cadence that someone with such a pretentious attitude might adopt. He is pretentious, deluded and sounds like it.

2. it is a formal, diplomatic kind of environment where ge is talking with an other 'important' figure. Also it had something of the Press Conference about it; he seemed to be partly performing for the camera.

3. Muslim's talk with this kind of formality, particularly in environments when 'politeness' is called for, such as when visiting at someone else's hood -as seemed to be the case with this tape.

If the rest of the Islamic world can view this tape and see it as the reality that it probably is, unstead of the "Wag The Dog" that many of them will be looking for, they should be sickened.... I know I am.


As for "Wag The Dog"... there was something about that movie that I kinda thought was pretty irresponsible at the time and now I know it. Sure it worked with the mediated nature of our reality and our perceptions, and made fun of it. And such an insight should always be taken into account by any artist or producer of media or REpresentations.

But, it also cynically presented a world where there is only falsity. I know the mediated stance, I understand that there are only interpretations, hermeneutics etc, and I have even read Baudrillard: but Baudrillard is an idiot who's extreme cynicism and position vis-a-vis "Hyperreality" and the lack of "reality", has allowed him to say the most outlandish and and idiotic things (see his remarks on the Gulf war)

Anyway, my 2c.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #13 of 37
The one thing that leads me to think that the world really is going down the crapper is that everyone is so completely jaded even after this unbelievable act. If no one believes this world, there is no hope for it.
post #14 of 37
As said by bin Laden in the tape, none of the hijackers on those planes (barring each team leader?) had advance knowledge of the nature of the mission, except to hijack the planes. How mayl this affect the outcome of the case against Zacarias Moussaoui, currently indicted on all kinds of charges including murder, conspiracy to commit terrorist acts, destruction of property, piracy and destruction of aircraft, etc?
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #15 of 37
post #16 of 37
More on the world reaction to the tapes. Heck, the US made it all up. Or we should get over it and focus on the new Isreali terrorism against Arabs. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> So much for proof, people beleive what they want to beleive. They ask for evidence, you give it to them and then they accuse you of doctoring it.

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011214/ts/attack_videotape_world_dc_1.html" target="_blank">http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011214/ts/attack_videotape_world_dc_1.html</a>
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #17 of 37
The pilots knew the mission, the muscle very likely didn't. The indicted guy was in training to be a pilot

Except that the fourth group wasn't short a pilot-it was short an enforcer. So the question still begs an answer; why did this "alleged hijacker" know what the plan was, when the other "enforcers" didn't. One more elemnet in the chain of circumstantial evidnece that a good lawyer can attack to create doubt. Although, in the current climate-assuming this board is representative of public opinion-it may not matter; Moussaoui was probaly as good as dead the minute he was indicted.
post #18 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>More on the world reaction to the tapes. Heck, the US made it all up. Or we should get over it and focus on the new Isreali terrorism against Arabs. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> So much for proof, people beleive what they want to beleive. They ask for evidence, you give it to them and then they accuse you of doctoring it.

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011214/ts/attack_videotape_world_dc_1.html" target="_blank">http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011214/ts/attack_videota pe_world_dc_1.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Osama himself could go up to these simpleton's and tell them he did it himself.. they would claim it wasn't really him.. it was a US trick!

They need to take their Anti-US glasses off once in awhile.
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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post #19 of 37
Even if the tape is genuine, even if Bin Laden had blatantly stated that he was the one who planned, funded, organized, whatevered the events of 9/11, that proves nothing! Every time something horrible happens a terrorist group claims responsibility for it, sometimes more than one. More often than not, it's discovered that they actually had nothing to do with it and were just trying to get some free publicity. Until we have actual hard evidence that Bin Laden was responsible, all these video tapes are really nothing but hearsay and completely insubstantial.
"America is a society where intellect seems to be out of style, replaced by garish gold jewelry, and winter clothes worn year round."
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"America is a society where intellect seems to be out of style, replaced by garish gold jewelry, and winter clothes worn year round."
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post #20 of 37
I just watched that videotape again, on CNN; it is plain that the lip movements are in sync. with the sounds; not only that, but during the part where bin Laden is calculating the amount of damage to the WTC, he has one hand raised vertically, and he gently hits it with his horizontally held hand several times. That looks good enough evidence that the tape is genuine and is as good as a confession, (and would stand up in a court of law, if it got to that). Anyone who is skeptical of its authenticity is now standing on very shaky ground.

On the other hand, the thought has passed my mind: why would they leave such damning evidence for the US and allied forces to so conveniently and easily find? Since the intelligence services described the plot as being "so well-planned that it evaded all detection", why would they make such a stupid amateurish blunder?
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #21 of 37
It does seem weird. I think about that kind of thing when I read that the sound of Bin Laden's voice was heard over short-wave radio in Tora Bora. That could be some kind of smokescreen, recorded and played over the air or something.

But I'm pretty convinced of its authenticity in the end. It would be nothing short of a phenomenal fake, and I would actually think that it would be easier to fake a good quality film than that crappy one. I think the reason it was left was that the idiot who made the tape kept it and left it, not the Al Qaeda leadership.
post #22 of 37
One of my Arab friends was bitching about the sound quality and the translation and .... yawn. Then he went into the whole "Hamas are freedom fighters" nonsense.

I'm rather tired with the "Arab Street". It's a street full of psychopathic morons. ****ing God could come down and tell them that yes in fact bin Laden planned it all. They would call God a liar.

Someone remind me why we give money to Egypt? Oh yea, were ****ing stupid.
post #23 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by nonhuman:
<strong>Even if the tape is genuine, even if Bin Laden had blatantly stated that he was the one who planned, funded, organized, whatevered the events of 9/11, that proves nothing! Every time something horrible happens a terrorist group claims responsibility for it, sometimes more than one. More often than not, it's discovered that they actually had nothing to do with it and were just trying to get some free publicity. Until we have actual hard evidence that Bin Laden was responsible, all these video tapes are really nothing but hearsay and completely insubstantial.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
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post #24 of 37
Looks like idiocy is not only coming from the simpleton's.

I can't believe some of you people.
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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post #25 of 37
I can only say my viewpoint has not changed...

I as an average citizen have no access to relevant information... only what is told to me... wether by "media at large" or the pentagon...

I do not know wether what I see is true or doctored, I do not think it is... but still most if not almost all of us are out of the real information loop because of neccessity...

With hundreds of oppinions and tainted viewpoints, etc... Alot of people are 100% sure that they know axactly whats going on... even though they have only the same to go on as I do...

the point is he is a mojor suspect and he will be captured or killed while resisting... I can only compare this to a police chase... If you pulled over for being suspect of even running a red light... and you push the "pedal to the metal" and drive a 101mph passed innocent people... endangering there lives and yours... youre going to "Get It" regardless of whether or not you commited any real crime... "you have made a bad situation, Worse". Hundreds if not thousands have died as a result of the "chase" pursiut of bin laden... and he continues to endanger innocent lives...

Now you could come back at me with a corralation of your own... maybe the fact that the pursuit may become too dangerous... that maybe too many people have died in this pursuit... I would then say... that if this "Hit and run" driver(bin laden) killed a bus of innocent school children(great deal of innocent people)... the chase "will not end" until he is apprehended...

the only thing I fear is that as this chase goes on, each party may become more desperate to end it... I hope against hope that there is no use of any "Mass Destruction Weapons"... bin laden as I am told has said he would only use them if they were used against him... but the first thing that comes to my mind... is... never trust the word of a bad guy...

I personally hope this all comes to a GOOD abrupt end soon...

E PLURIBUS UNIX
-----------------------------
post #26 of 37
I'm sick of these assholes hiding behind our trust and good will. I am not interested in after-the-fact solutions to terrorism. Preventative "medicine" seems like a good approach, and Bin Laden has been a highly likely source for terrorism, and, lest we forget, connected to previous acts of terrorism against the US anyway. Besides, US courts do not define "beyond a reasonable doubt" as catching the guy red-handed. It's plenty for an indictment alone.

If you're waiting for more bad shit to happen so you can catch him red-handed, you're going to let more shit happen.
post #27 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by FERRO:
<strong>
the point is he is a mojor suspect and he will be captured or killed while resisting... I can only compare this to a police chase... If you pulled over for being suspect of even running a red light... and you push the "pedal to the metal" and drive a 101mph passed innocent people... endangering there lives and yours... youre going to "Get It" regardless of whether or not you commited any real crime... "you have made a bad situation, Worse". Hundreds if not thousands have died as a result of the "chase" pursiut of bin laden... and he continues to endanger innocent lives...

Now you could come back at me with a corralation of your own... maybe the fact that the pursuit may become too dangerous... that maybe too many people have died in this pursuit... I would then say... that if this "Hit and run" driver(bin laden) killed a bus of innocent school children(great deal of innocent people)... the chase "will not end" until he is apprehended...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I liken it more to this situation. Okay let's say there's they guy and the cops are after him. Only this guy like totally killed 4000 people and the country he's in refuses to give him over and in fact has been supporting his world wide band of thugs for years. Okay so like the cops say "hand him over or else we'll not only come in and get him but we'll end you ability to support these type of thugs in the future. " And then like that country doesn't do that so the cops go with the UN recognized government in that area a beat them and then go after the murderer and beat them too. Because the cops know the guy will never stop.

[quote]Originally posted by FERRO:
<strong>the only thing I fear is that as this chase goes on, each party may become more desperate to end it... I hope against hope that there is no use of any "Mass Destruction Weapons"... </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh yea because the US has been so careless with those in the past.
post #28 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>I'm sick of these assholes hiding behind our trust and good will. I am not interested in after-the-fact solutions to terrorism. Preventative "medicine" seems like a good approach, and Bin Laden has been a highly likely source for terrorism, and, lest we forget, connected to previous acts of terrorism against the US anyway. Besides, US courts do not define "beyond a reasonable doubt" as catching the guy red-handed. It's plenty for an indictment alone.

If you're waiting for more bad shit to happen so you can catch him red-handed, you're going to let more shit happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh come on! Osama is a nice guy! He doesn't want anything bad to happen to the US!
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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post #29 of 37
[quote] Oh yea because the US has been so careless with those in the past. <hr></blockquote>

I didnt mean that we (US) would use a nuke...

What I meant was I wouldnt put it passed bin laden to just initiate a sleeper agent to set off a "dirty nuke" becuase he is loosing the war...

E PLURIBUS UNIX
-----------------------------


[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: FERRO ]</p>
post #30 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by nonhuman:
<strong>Even if the tape is genuine, even if Bin Laden had blatantly stated that he was the one who planned, funded, organized, whatevered the events of 9/11, that proves nothing! Every time something horrible happens a terrorist group claims responsibility for it, sometimes more than one. More often than not, it's discovered that they actually had nothing to do with it and were just trying to get some free publicity. Until we have actual hard evidence that Bin Laden was responsible, all these video tapes are really nothing but hearsay and completely insubstantial.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well you and <a href="http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/200112" target="_blank">Alan Dershowitz</a> are on the same page anyhow.

One major thing wrong with your proof issue and one minor thing. The major thing is that ALL the exidence so far has pointed to Osama being responsible. This is not the only evidence, it is just the most damning. The minor problem is that it cannot be called heresay as it is a direct quote of the person on video. It may be a lie (I don't think so) but it is not heresay.

And for those who think why would this tape get out? Well, I think that tose who had it saw which way the wind was blowing and leaked it. Besides, Osama believes he is fighting "Allah's War" and so as such is untouchable. Why not parade around the fact that you did it to show that you are not afraid of the reprecussions?

GUILTY!
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #31 of 37
A writer to the Los Angeles Times posted this letter. I read it, then re-read it, and frowned. And frowned again, and again.

Here is is, verbatim:

[quote]The bin Laden transcript states: "We were at (inaudible) when the event took place. We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day".. Note he says, "we had notification since the previous Thursday".

Who is "we", and more important, who provided that notification? Who picked the date? Since 9-11 is highly symbolic and bin Laden was merely informed, who really co-ordinated this? A bigger mastermind? A co-conspirator of higher authority? Was bin Laden just the "banker and co-conspirator"?<hr></blockquote>

Just what the hell is bin Laden saying here? Why hasn't anyone picked up on this up until now? It's too inconvenient and doesn't quite fit? If the government's translation is correct, as we have been repeatedly assured, then it sounds suspiciously to me that bin Laden did not plan the date of the attack, did not give the order to attack and perhaps did not even conceive the idea.

Yes yes yes, before everyone joins in a chorus of "spoilsport", we all now know that he was privy to the attack before it happened, but his description of the amount of expected damage doesn't necessarily mean he planned it, only perhaps that knowing several days in advance, he was estimating the damage on account of his engineering and construction knowledge.

This doesn't take away from his guilt, because even if this was not of his actual doing and planning, he is still an accessory. Not only that, he is guilty as all hell for planning the bombing of those US embassies in Africa, as well as other terrorist actions. Who else is involved here? Dammit!!!! To whom is bin Laden answering? What would be the the reaction by officials if questioned on this point? We just lost 4000 innocent Americans here, and $100billion damage to Manhattan and the Pantagon, dammit. What is the feeling here? Is anyone bothered by the possibility that there may be parties even more evil (if that is possible) than the one who, for 4000 reasons, we all love to hate?

What the ý*
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #32 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>Just what the hell is bin Laden saying here? Why hasn't anyone picked up on this up until now? It's too inconvenient and doesn't quite fit? If the government's translation is correct, as we have been repeatedly assured, then it sounds suspiciously to me that bin Laden did not plan the date of the attack, did not give the order to attack and perhaps did not even conceive the idea. </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're an idiot. "We" is bin Laden and his top people. That Egyptian doctor and the others. You think they send Atta out and say, "okay 36 months from now, on Sept 11th, do this". No. They say, "go to Germany and start a cell", "go the US and train to fly" "hold up there and meet these other peopel" "when you are ready do it" Then Atta sends the message back that the 11th is the date. Of couse bin Laden didn't plan the date of the attack. You think he's on ****ing PriceLine.com picking out flights?

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #33 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>

You're an idiot. "We" is bin Laden and his top people. That Egyptian doctor and the others. You think they send Atta out and say, "okay 36 months from now, on Sept 11th, do this". No. They say, "go to Germany and start a cell", "go the US and train to fly" "hold up there and meet these other peopel" "when you are ready do it" Then Atta sends the message back that the 11th is the date. Of couse bin Laden didn't plan the date of the attack. You think he's on ****ing PriceLine.com picking out flights?

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Scott H, your response is so yawningly predictable.




Just who who gave the orders, who authorized these attacks and who notified bin Laden when these attacks were going to happen? I hope to hell we find them. I would like to see all these jerks rounded up and dealt with in the most severe fashion possible (according to civilized justice), including the "bogeyman celebrity" of course. Are you telling me that perhaps you don't want to acknowledge the possibility of other, equally responsibly parties? Jeez
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #34 of 37
Predictable because it makes the most sense. Boring because a 5 year old could figure it out. Why couldn't you?
post #35 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Predictable because it makes the most sense. Boring because a 5 year old could figure it out. Why couldn't you?</strong><hr></blockquote>

In this case I am with Samantha partly. (wow, that felt weird ) I am not disputing that Bin Laden was the driving force behind the whole attack. Death is too quick a punishment for him. But those who were involved in the whole chain should be hunted down and strung up as well. The only way to stop it is to uproot the whole chain. And then be diligent and not turn a blind eye when they start poking up again.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #36 of 37
This was amusing. Could have been better but wsj isn't known for humor of off the Best of the Web page.


<a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95001613" target="_blank">Lost in Translation</a>
The Osama tape, as heard by Al Jazeera.
BY CHRISTOPHER BUCKLEY
Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:01 a.m. EST

The Qatar-based al Jazeera satellite channel has just released its own translation of the Osama bin Laden tape:

Osama bin Laden: Sulayman. Sorry I'm late. I couldn't find a parking space.

Sheik Sulayman: Tell me about it. I had to park in a bomb crater.

Osama bin Laden: Allah be praised. Every time I stick my head out for some air, they drop a 15,000-pound bomb. My chickens haven't laid an egg since mid-October. Will someone please tell me why the Americans are doing this?

Suleman Abu Guaith: Hel-lo? To please the Zionists.

Osama bin Laden: I had this dream.

Sheik Sulayman: Me too [inaudible] episode of "Baywatch."

Osama bin Laden: Not that kind of dream. I was in Neiman Marcus, the satanic department store, trying to buy a white player piano. And they wouldn't take Visa. Fortunately, I had the American Express Platinum Card.

Sheik Sulayman: Allah be praised. So what have you been up to lately, O Evil One? Kidding.

Osama bin Laden: Say, where are the brothers? Where's Mohamed of the Egyptian family?

Suleman Abu Guaith: [to Sheik Sulayman] Um, you want to tell him?

Sheik Sulayman: Mohamed was on that plane that crashed into the building in New York.

Osama bin Laden: That boy was like a son to me. Where are you going with this?

Sheik Sulayman: What can I tell you? He got on in Boston. He wanted to see Disneyland. Next thing we know, the plane crashes into that building. It was obviously a Mossad operation. You know the Israelis told the Jews who worked in the towers not to go to work that day.

Suleman Abu Guaith: [deleted] Zionists.

Osama bin Laden: So that's what all this is about. The carpet bombing, the pamphlets, the $25 million reward--by the way, don't get any ideas, you two--drone planes, commandos. Someone might have told me.

Suleman Abu Guaith: We didn't want to upset you. It was a terrible thing, those planes.

Osama bin Laden: One's heart goes out to the families.

Suleman Abu Guaith: What about the families of the brothers on board? There were 19 young Muslim men on those planes. In the prime of life. Mohamed's father--the Cairo lawyer--is taking it pretty hard. The worst part is the lies the Americans are spreading. That his son was the quote-unquote head terrorist.

Osama bin Laden: [spits up tea] Mohamed? Mohamed Atta? Puh-leeze. You couldn't get him on a plane unless you poured a fifth of Jack Daniels into him.

Sheik Sulayman: [loud noise] Whoa. What was that?

Suleman Abu Guaith: [deleted] Daisy Cutter. Wish we had those.

Osama bin Laden: [humming to self] In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight. .Â*.Â*. Well, this is completely unacceptable, this war the Americans and Zionists have proclaimed upon Islam.

Suleman Abu Guaith: So what are we going to do about it?

Osama bin Laden: The same thing that we have been doing for the past 1,000 years, since the infidel first defiled our holy places.

Sheik Sulayman: I know someone who went to school with a guy whose uncle knows someone who makes anthrax. We couldÂ*.Â*.Â*.

Osama bin Laden: Shame on you, Sulay. You know that poison chemicals and radioactive bombs and murdering innocents are not our way. This is not the way of Islam.

Sheik Sulayman: Kidding. Jeez Louise, have we lost our sense of humor? Have we been living in a cave too long?

Osama bin Laden: We must fight back with prayer and dialogue and understanding.

Suleman Abu Guaith: Bo-ring. Whatever.

Osama bin Laden: I had a dream.

Suleman Abu Guaith: [to Sheik Sulayman] Another dream?

Sheik Sulayman: [to Suleman Abu Guaith] Oy. Humor him.

Osama bin Laden: I was trying to get the enormous player piano into the elevator and people were not helping and suddenly the piano began playing [shudders] Hanukkah muzak. It was very unpleasant. I pressed the P-4 button and was in the elevator going down for the longest time and the doors opened and there were these flames everywhere and the sign said "Hell Level Parking."

Sheik Sulayman: Beam me up, Scotty.

Osama bin Laden: Fortunately I was able to interpret it correctly. It means that I am going to heaven.

Suleman Abu Guaith: Allah be praised.

Mr. Buckley is editor of Forbes FYI. His new novel, "No Way to Treat a First Lady," will be published next year by Random House.
post #37 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/</a>

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40746,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40746,00.html</a>

Quote from transcript:

"We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors; I was the most optimistic of them all.

"Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This was all that we had hoped for."



Any of you prudent, well-thought-out types who've spent three months sitting on your hands and calling for "evidence" and "not rushing to judgement" like to comment now?

I hope someone kills this gloating, warped cocksucker.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, P. But there are still plenty of Peaceniks out there who DON'T CARE that he did this. Even now, even after this. And I just read in USA Today this morning how the fact that the Bush Administration is "selectively" releasing tapes amounts to some kind of conspiracy. WHAT?????

Wanna know why they took so long with this tape? To make sure that they didn't trigger any cells accidentally. Some folks haven't really thought this whole "War" thingy through yet. There's NO WAY they should release any others, after the reaction this one got.

Wanna know why they said "we've got him surrounded" last week? To see if it triggered any sleepers or inactive cells. Betcha.
Never had ONE lesson.
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Never had ONE lesson.
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