Apple refreshes iPod classic, ups capacity to 160GB - Page 2

What are you not getting? Toshiba announced the new hard drive AFTER the Apple presentation.

Logisticaldron never stated that no one would ever increase it.

I'm sure many people who wanted a higher capacity ipod but didn't want the extra thickness will buy one now.

I don't understand the 3rd Gen shuffle. When I'm out walking or riding, the earbud cord is usually tucked under my jacket or shirt which would make the controls hard to get to. With buttons on the device, I can control it from my pocket, or wherever I choose to clip it.

I just ordered a refurbished 2nd Gen shuffle after seeing nothing new today. I really thought Apple would abandon the 3G model today and replace it with a low-end nano with a clip.

If you look at Toshiba and the 1.8" form factor they love so much you can see that they tend to release a new model with higher densities in the August-September timeframe.

Single-platter releases:

120GB September 2008
80GB September 2007
50GB December 2006 (100GB dual platter format)
40GB August 2005
30GB August 2004
20GB November 2003

So, projecting that there would be a 160GB single platter 1.8" HDD from Toshiba around the same time as Apple announced new iPods in 2009 is not what I would call a very high-risk proposition. Claiming in July (or whenever) that a 160GB single platter drive doesn't exist is simply ignoring a relatively steady set of yearly announcements by Toshiba.

Heck, the press releases from year to year look remarkably the same. "Toshiba introduces Highest-Capacity, Single-Platter <X GB> 1.8-Inch HDD based on <new technique this year>".

I didn't "mention" it because I wasn't in whatever thread you were in when you said that.

Sure, but I still found it amusing.


Given that Toshiba has been releasing a higher capacity 1.8" drive around this time every year like clockwork it's kinda a given.

That's just absurd!

I have my headphones plugged into my iPhone 24/7, with the cord under my shirt and I never need to pull my iPhone out of my pocket, either to listen to music or to take a call. How is that possible? Because they put the button/microphone at neck level where it should be.

You find it amusing to appear as though you can't understand a simple paragraph?

Yeah, like clockwork until flash takes over and people stop making hard drives...

Despite no evidence of Apple ever announcing a 1.8 HDD capacity upgrade before the HDD manufacturer, you thought that it was likely that Toshiba would announce this new drive just a couple hours after I made a comment about not being able to find it because THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT EXISTING YET ON THE INTERNET? You can honestly say that you 11:30am when I last checked and came up nothing right before the event, that your gut feeling was that Apple announce a higher capacity drive and then have Toshiba announced after Apple, Hey, you may have heard we have a higher capacity drive out know? I never said that it couldnt happen, I never stated that it wouldnt happen, i stated that there was NO EVIDENCE as of 30 minutes before the Apple event of this drive existing. The oldest news you can point to is immediately AFTER the event ending and AFTER I compared the thickness of last years and this years Classic to know that Apple did indeed get their hands on a higher-density 1.8 HDD.

Gee thanks. And thanks for the information. Anyway, I prefer my own headphones so the 2G model is better for me.

No, he just stated that they had stopped right before the next expected release cycle. Had it been say...December 2009 or January 2010 he might have had more leg to stand on with such a statement.

If you had read the announcement today, with the adapter, you can use any headphones with the new shuffle...

Nope, i just read your post, did a Google search and the rest was history.


Would I have said categorically that there would be a 160GB iPod classic? Nope. But I sure as hell wouldn't have stated that 1.8" HDD development had stopped with nearly zero research into the matter.

A cursory Google revealed that Toshiba has been releasing higher and higher density 1.8" drives every year since 2003. A cursory Google that you appeared to have failed to do. Heck, even if you only looked at the release of the 120GB platter you might have noted it was only a year ago and most of the time you don't see any new models before a year is out.

From what data did you conclude that "1.8 HDD technology doesnt appear to have increased capacity, reduced power usage or increased speed"?

I never stated any such thing. I made a posting hours before Toshibas announcement and right before the Apple event that I cant find the drive. It wasnt there. You couldnt find it 11 hours ago if you had bothered to look for it. Only you are stating that if it didnt exist at one point that it cant ever exist in the future. My point was that Apple may keep it at 120GB if there is no suitable replacement at the time. If the drive came out a month from now I would have expected Apple to announce a 160GB Classic coming next month. I know time can be hard for some people but you linking to it on Google AFTER it was announced has no baring on a post I made hours prior.

LOL! hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?!

Now that you know that Toshiba came out with the new hard drive it's so easy to say that it was obvious!

You posted AFTER the announcement was made despite my post being hours BEFORE the announcement was made and BEFORE the Apple event. Time is really that tough for you?


I said I see no evidence of this drive existing so I didn’t expect the Classic to be updated and available to day. That is far cry from the absolutionuist answers you and Teckstud give. The world is not all black and white.

I write...
and you think…
What part of my comment confuses you so much? What part of my comment implies that they never will and that development has stopped? Why can’t you conceive of the drive being ready later in the year with the Classic capacity bumped up then?

Are the new Shuffles coming out in the old colors? Why not the match the new colors of the Nanos. The green is awful.

I find it amusing that I'm on the same side as teh stud once in a blue moon.


Yah, sure. Not for a few more years. Given Intel's X25-M problems the flash SSD market still won't be mature enough to replace HDD for a while. The verification suites for SSDs are still nascent in comparison to other solid state devices (like say CPUs).

I did and I decided on a 2G shuffle instead. Having controls only on the headphone cord doesn't appeal to me, at neck level or at the other end as it would be with an adapter.

Nice switcheroo:

"1.8” HDD technology doesn’t appear to have increased capacity, reduced power usage or increased speed. I just don’t see how it’s an evolutionary step when it appears that 1.8” HDD makers appear to have put the brakes on these drives"

Is the statement in question, quoted above and specifically referenced by me. It may not be absolutely "absolutist" but it's pretty close and just plain wrong.

So, from what data did you use to come up with that conclusion?

Because it was last updated in September 2008 and "no evidence" of upgrades since then?

It's obvious because Toshiba has been doing this every year for the last six years.

It's like guessing that Apple will update their iPod lineup soon after school starts and the Back To School sales end.

Doesn’t appear, because prior to the Classic announcement there was no information available on Google. “Appears” is not a statement of fact. It is an observation based on the data at hand. When the 160GB Classic was announced and the size was the exact same as the 120GB Classic, guess what appeared to be the case? It wasn’t TARDIS technology, it appeared that Apple got these drives and announced them before the vendor did. That turned out to be true. Geez! You should take reading comprehension courses with Teckstud if you going to read a conditional statement as an absolute statement.

Toshiba releasing 1.8 HDDs about every year or so does not equate to Toshiba will be announcing new 1.8 HDDs immediately after Apple announces a new iPod Classic. Can you show me proof of where you made such a claim before Toshibas announcement today?

That would be hard since I've made neither statement. I believe this is called a "strawman" and often used to cover up after saying something stupid.

Lets try this again: how did you come to the conclusion that 1.8" HDD drive development had "appeared" to have ceased?

No publicly accessible evidence from any HDD vendor that higher-capacity 1.8 HDDs existed prior to the Classic release today. Not a single appearance of a 160GB 1.8 single-platter HDD before the Classic announcement. Stating that Toshiba is likely to introduce a denser 1.8 HDD late in the calender year is not appearance, its a educated guess, but you likely didnt conceive of until after the Classic was announced and 160GB SP drive was confirmed and you surely wouldnt have known the exact date when it would be released. From all available information at the time there was no appearance of these drives on the market.

PS: There is no appearance of God so i wont make absolute statements to Gods existence. Im sure youll say I told you there was a God" should a God ever appear.

What data at hand? That there had been an update every fall for the last six years but suddenly because sometime mid summer you didn't see any new releases that advancement had appeared to cease?

It appears that you were clearly wrong. It appears that you didn't even bother to see when Toshiba did their releases. It appears you were completely unaware that Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year.

How do those statements differ from your usage of the word "appears"? Oh, it appears these are correct statements based on evidence while yours was...not.


My reading comprehension is fine. Your RDF, however, is not very strong.

"1.8 HDD technology doesnt appear to have increased capacity, reduced power usage or increased speed."

Is a factually incorrect statement. It isn't conditional as much a (hedging mealy-mouthed) assertion of a condition (development had stopped) to support your position (160GB iPod not likely) . At no point in the last 6 years did 1.8" HDD technology EVER stop increasing capacity, reduced power usage and increased in speed. Like clockwork it happened EVERY single year.

The really funny part is that even now you won't admit you were wrong. So I keep tweaking you.

September 9th is mid-Summer now? Global Warning really is happening.

Better hang on to this--this may be literally the end of the line for the iPod classic, now fitted with a single-platter 160 GB hard drive.

In September 2010, the 128 GB flash memory 4G iPod touch will likely replace the iPod classic once and for all.

Therefore they could not exist despite there being one every year since 2003.


Yes, because Apple ISN'T a secretive company that just handed over a $500M prepayment to Toshiba and has no pull with Toshiba to stay quiet a month or two and Apple has never had partners delay their announcements to after Apple had made theirs.

And Apple isn't one of the largest remaining user of 1.8" drives...


Which has nothing to do with your incorrect assertion that development of 1.8" HDD had "appeared" to have stopped in favor of SDD development. Would you call that an uneducated guess?

Maybe you'll be right in 2010.

Dunno when your thread was. You said "many weeks", not days. I did not bother looking for that original "many weeks ago" original thread.

Vinea has clearly stated that since Toshiba has released a higher capacity 1.8 HDD every year for 6 years about this time that they will continue to do so every year for the rest of eternity, even when there is no previous announcement. I guess he didnt notice when the .85 died, followed by the 1, then the 1.3. Somehow 1.8 will live on forever.

I said I’ve been looking for evidence of new 1.8” HDD developments all year. Something to tip us off that the Classic would not only be kept but that the capacity would also be increasing. Just because a company isn’t releasing a product until later doesn’t mean we don’t often know about it ahead of time. Ny lack of evidence wasn’t a statement that it couldn’t exist, and you know that.

Despite what you think, 1.8” are a dying breed. If the Classic sales were low enough they would not have updated them and Toshiba may not have produced a higher-capacity 1.8” drive. This is business.

You can pooh-pooh me for looking where you weren’t and trying to hide timelines of announcements that didn’t exist when i made mention, but the fact remains that you brought it up only after it was a fact and that eventually the 1.8” HDD will stop being engineered.

Do you have any posts when the rumors of the Classic being discontinued stating that people are all crazy and that Apple will have a higher capacity Classic? I didn’t think so.

Could be. The size difference might be small enough even compared to a 200-240GB 1.8" HDD.

Flash prices have stabilized a bit even though Apple has locked in a billion worth of flash. 128GB at $399 might be doable for Apple by this time next year but more likely in 2011 given past trends.

2 years ago it was 16GB for $299. This year it's 32GB for $299. Assuming the same fairly aggressive trend line we're looking at 2 years as the most likely case.

All year is "too soon" eh?


So how much warning did the market have that the 120GB single platter would appear?

Oh wait...let's see what happened on September 9 2008?

"Today, right after Steve J. rolled out a "thin" 120GB iPod classic, Toshiba announced its 120GB 4200rpm 1.8" drive, a new high for that slimmer single-platter config. Everybody knows that's the drive for classic iPods."

http://gizmodo.com/5047611/toshibas-...the-240gb-ipod

OMFG, Toshiba announcing a new HDD right after Apple announces a new iPod classic is such a improbable possibility that...uh...it happened last year.



The amusement continues.


Sure. The time, however, to make that particular pronouncement of lack of evidence of advancement isn't early September 2009 but winter 2010...


Are you trying to claim that you did sooo much research you failed to note the obvious release cycle? And what happened last year when the 120GB iPod was released?

The reason why I never mentioned it before today is because I didn't care about the iPod (touch or classic) enough to read many threads about it. Despite my post count, I don't read every thread on here.


No, because I don't talk out of my ass so much. It keeps me from having to eat too much crow.

And how exactly would it be relevant months after the event to wonder if the Classic would still be available and if it would be updated months prior?

By your reasoning, since Toshiba released a drive this year, they must surely release one next year. After all, they’ve done it since 2003, which means that they must surely release one the following year, and the year after that, etc.. It’s sad that you don’t see how this is a fallacy to think that it will or can be continued every year? At some point the development will stop, but you, for some reason, feel a need to attack me for looking for evidence of this happening or not happening prior to this iPod event and putting words in my mouth when I clearly state that I found no evidence.

Given that the 1.3" first appeared at the 2007 CES I'd say it was more stillborn than anything else.

0.85" and 1" HDDs died because it really is too small in comparison to flash regardless of areal density. Even then, they weren't around long. 2004 to 2008. They were never widely used anyway.

Flash will overtake even 2.5" drives in time. Toshiba has been a big proponent of dropping flash unit costs to push Flash to replace HDDs.

The 1.8" drives have the problem that rotational speeds will never be very high and 2.5" drives fit in netbooks just fine. So the primary niche remaining is iPods and HD cameras until 2TB SDXC cards appear anyway.

So you now admit that 1.8” will eventually not be produced at a higher capacity, thereby preventing the Classic from increasing in capacity with HDDs, despite your previous statement that because they were updated x-many years previously that they would obviously be updated again?

High probability that they will. And if I had to guess I'm gonna say that if they do, they'll announce it right after Steve announces the 200GB iPod Classic.

Oh, that's reductio ad absurdum by the way. Another tactic of the weak.

Fact: Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year since 2003.
Fact: Toshiba announced their new 1.8" HDD AFTER Apple announced the new 120GB iPod that used it in 2008.

Projection: Toshiba will likely release a new 1.8" HDD in 2010 and announce it after their primary user (Apple) gets the honors of announcing their product first.

Reductio ad absurdum: YOU CLAIM 1.8" DRIVES WILL BE RELEASED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.

Nope. Just that the data points to a certain trend and you ought to have compelling reasons to suggest otherwise.

Same as the trendline that suggests 128GB iPod touch in 2011 vs 2010.

So, to recap:

2010...upgraded iPod classic likely.
2011...upgraded iPod classic not likely.

Using the projected iPod Touch size (64GB) for this year, the odds were very high that we'd see a bumped iPod classic. And we did.

Odds are good next year but not as good as 2009.


You found evidence to the contrary, you simply ignored it. Come on dude...the EXACT same scenario played out last year.

Here's a clearly wrong statement you made in this very thread about this subject:

"despite no evidence of Apple ever announcing a 1.8 HDD capacity upgrade before the HDD manufacturer,"

And yet googling what happened last year shows that it happened exactly this way last year. So your claiming no evidence for anything has very little credibility.

You simply didn't look. Just like you didn't look when you made that assertion of "no evidence" several posts ago.

Yep. Because my analysis is based on data...not whimsy and making shit up. There's clearly no evidence you did any research or thinking at all about whether Toshiba would release a bigger 1.8" HDD this year for the iPod. Because if you had, you might have noticed they did the exact thing last year...which is hardly "no evidence".

I think the classic is here to stay.

Next year the flash memory will be up to 128MB. I can see Apple introducing a basic ultra slim iPod classic in black & white.

I guess the current Shuffle is here to stay for a while. I wonder what happened to "it is the worst Shuffle", and "no one is buying it"?!