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Obama's Joint Session on Healthcare

post #1 of 190
Thread Starter 
Watch and learn from the a great president in the making. Perhaps soon to be the greatest president of our time, move forward to solve a crippling problem to this country:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQhmRhqQsAE
post #2 of 190
Rep Wilson, another wonderful example of a great human being from South Carolina, shouted "You lie!" during the speech.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...eckled.speech/

Tomorrow he'll probably say that God will make him better and that will be the end of the matter for the Republicans.

 

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post #3 of 190
I felt like shouting at Obama quite a few times, of course I wouldn't have shouted "YOU LIE!" after a statement that is factually accurate (no bill before Congress authorizes the coverage of illegal aliens, that is a plain fact).

When he said we should mandate the purchase of private health insurance I wanted Michelle to go down to the podium and slap him.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #4 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I felt like shouting at Obama quite a few times...

I just sat there wondering where the money was going to come from. The assertions made during the speech are contrary to what the Congressional Budget Office has communicated.

I heard what I usually hear when large organizations address folks - platitudes instead of hard facts.

As far as the outburst, it was totally out of line. I am sure that behavior will have it's own reward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

...no bill before Congress authorizes the coverage of illegal aliens, that is a plain fact...

It's true - no bill before Congress authorizes the coverage of illegal aliens - yet it's also true that there are insufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants don't get coverage subsidized by US taxpayers.
post #5 of 190
I think Rep. Wilson did it on purpose. Now every news story, every liberal blogger account and most forum discussions will all be about how Wilson treated the president instead of what the president said.

I'm pretty sure Republicans have gotten smart and are using the media's biases against them. Rep Wilson will now dominate their 24 news cycles for a couple days and very little of what Obama said will actually enter the discussion.

I can't guarantee this is really what is happening, but it would be smart if you think about it. The media so desires to demonize Republicans and their supporters that you give them some small token gesture that fits that mold, they will spend all their time on it rather than discussing the actual legislation because it plays to the biases of who they want to protect and demonize and they can't resist the bait.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 190
It was a good speech. The teleprompter did well.

He didn't really say anything that I hadn't heard before, and it didn't change my mind with respect to what the role of the Federal Government should be in health care.

The Constitution is quite clear. This is a matter to be handled by the states or by the people. The Federal Government's role should be regulatory, at most.

The "outrage" over Rep. Wilson's outburst is to be expected. He was out of line, but certainly not the first to ever do it.

Flashback: Democrats Boo Bush At 2005 State Of The Union

It was in poor taste then, and it is in poor taste now.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #7 of 190
Thread Starter 
Well the outburst of Joe Wilson stokes the fears of the paranoid old angry white southern americans, to it will bode well with them I am sure. The media will also be happy talking about it.

The beauty of this is that for every outburst it will become clearer and clearer which americans act rationally and intelligently, and which americans act irrationally and out of fear. Those fearful ones will be isolated from society and over time their paranoid ideals will self-implode.
post #8 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Watch and learn from the a great president in the making. Perhaps soon to be the greatest president of our time, move forward to solve a crippling problem to this country:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQhmRhqQsAE

I don't mean this as an attack, but I think you may be living on a different planet. This President has had little to no success on any issue thus far. The economy is still tanking. The healthcare debate has been a nightmare. His own positions are contradictory and stretch the bounds of credibility. He's sent conflicting messages to Congress about what he wants to the bill to do.

Afghanistan is worsening with nary a word from The One. Unemployment is two percent higher than they predicted and the 10 year deficit projections are $2 Trillion more than they stated 6 months ago. 11% of the stimulus has been disbursed....even though it was supposed to bring about a swift recovery. Obama's poll ratings are tanking faster than a submarine hit by a torpedo. His green jobs czar was a exposed a racist with communist sympathies.

No matter where one stands politically or what one HOPES for, this President has failed at just about everything.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #9 of 190
well, with brilliant GOP antics like what we saw during the speech, meaningful discussion is impossible and the president has t spend all of his time correcting lies and mis-leading statements made by his attackers as opposed to engaging in a discussion and working towards improving the lives of the citizens of this country.

A debate means you discuss the issue and weigh various options and agree on some things and disagree on others and finally find something you can agree on and go with that. Both sides need to give input. Right now, we have one side that absolutely refuses to act even remotely maturely and then they pretty much pat themselves on the back.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #10 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

This President has had little to no success on any issue thus far. The economy is still tanking.

Maybe your finances are taking, but according to the rest of the world, the economy is recovering:

http://www.themoneytimes.com/feature...d-1083346.html

And Obama is the one who led the country on this path.

I am going to go ahead and dismiss the rest of your post as just more of the same fearmongering and lies.
post #11 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

well, with brilliant GOP antics like what we saw during the speech, meaningful discussion is impossible and the president has t spend all of his time correcting lies and mis-leading statements made by his attackers as opposed to engaging in a discussion and working towards improving the lives of the citizens of this country.

A debate means you discuss the issue and weigh various options and agree on some things and disagree on others and finally find something you can agree on and go with that. Both sides need to give input. Right now, we have one side that absolutely refuses to act even remotely maturely and then they pretty much pat themselves on the back.

Yep, and despite some indication that some serious republicans do have legitimate concerns about healthcare reform, most GOP representatives and senators are perfectly happy stonewalling while more and more people die and fall into bankruptcy.

I guess in their mind they are not people after all. We are, of course, talking about blacks, latinos, and others not belonging to the white club. So why should "they pay" for taking care of non-people, non-humans?

Lets hope this group gets isolated from society. Lets hope their sons and daughters one day come to feel ashamed of them. Let them die in peace.
post #12 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No matter where one stands politically or what one HOPES for, this President has failed at just about everything.

More than anything else, the President needs to be a leader. His biggest failure to date is his inability to successfully reach across the isle. It's easy leading the choir, and so far that's all he's been successful at.

It's easy to blame the opposition... after all, they're the opposition. A real leader doesn't have the luxury of ignoring the people that don't want to follow, a leader needs to lead everyone.
post #13 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

A real leader doesn't have the luxury of ignoring the people that don't want to follow, a leader needs to lead everyone.

Just like Bush.
post #14 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkbug View Post

Just like Bush.

WRONG!!!

Bush reached across the isle... after he fabricated data about Saddam's WMD's and lied to everybody that the USA was under imminent threat.
post #15 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No matter where one stands politically or what one HOPES for, this President has failed at just about everything.

Especially community organizing and getting elected. What a failure.
post #16 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

his inability to successfully reach across the isle.

The GOP isn't exactly welcoming discourse with him. Right now, I don't know if even the God who will make them better™ would be able to "reach across the aisle". They seem perfectly happy to disrupt any meaningful business and continue with their back-alley pranks.

Yet they take their paychecks and their great insurance plans that they don't want anyone else to get.

---

Wilson's opponent in the next election received quite a bit in donations after Wilson's childish antics. Wilson's time is limited; hopefully more of his ilk will be tossed at the same time.

 

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post #17 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I just sat there wondering where the money was going to come from. The assertions made during the speech are contrary to what the Congressional Budget Office has communicated.

You heard what you wanted to hear. Others heard what Obama actually said: "I will not sign a bill if it adds one dime to the national deficit". And of course it is true, why? Read the rest of the speech. But to put it in simple terms everyone can understand: because the bill will curb a LOT of wasteful spending that happens right now in the health care system.

He also said this: "simply put, healthcare IS our deficit". Again, Obama is correct. Curbing wasteful spending (isn't this what the GOP is supposedly all about?) will lead to a reduction in deficit and accelerate economic recovery, AND it will lead to better care IF they change the system to evidence-based medicine (more on that latter).

Do your part, write to your senators, support healthcare. And if you are not smart enough to understand the issue and apply critical analysis at the very least shut the hell up.
post #18 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The GOP isn't exactly welcoming discourse with him.

So you excuse Obama's failure because it's too hard? The "buck" stops where ever someone can stick it?

Used to be leaders were judged on their ability to lead, not on the ability of their constituents to follow. You can't tell me there isn't a carrot to put on the end of a stick that'll get the GOP to get on board.
post #19 of 190
We have spent almost one trillion dollars on 2 wars of aggression with its accompanying massive corporate welfare scams, theft, fraud and mismanagement on the part of no bid contractors... and nobody has been brought to account, both sides of the house keep piling the funds into this futile black hole, and nobody says anything.

We have just bailed out the banks and big finance to the tune of some >$9 trillion. Nobody asks any questions, the "Federal" Reserve refuses to tell us where the money went, and the cowardly lapdog corporate media fails America yet one more time... and the system that caused the meltdown in the first place remains identically in place, temporarily shored up with our taxpayer dollars.

Now, we attempt to allocate some $900 billion over 10 years to bring some moderately civilized values to America's health "care" system. This is a a program largely funded by the reduction/elimination of waste, and a modicum of accountability on the part of the middle men, (the parasites which provide nothing while muscling their way between doctor and patient)......

...... and everyone goes ballistic.

Talk about a distorted sense of priorities and values. How much more fvcked up can we get?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #20 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

We have spent almost one trillion dollars on 2 wars of aggression with its accompanying massive corporate welfare scams, theft, fraud and mismanagement on the part of no bid contractors... and nobody has been brought to account, both sides of the house keep piling the funds into this futile black hole, and nobody says anything.

We have just bailed out the banks and big finance to the tune of some >$9 trillion. Nobody asks any questions, the "Federal" Reserve refuses to tell us where the money went, and the cowardly lapdog corporate media fails America yet one more time... and the system that caused the meltdown in the first place remains identically in place, temporarily shored up with our taxpayer dollars.

Now, we attempt to allocate some $900 billion over 10 years to bring some moderately civilized values to America's health "care" system. This is a a program largely funded by the reduction/elimination of waste, and a modicum of accountability on the part of the middle men, (the parasites which provide nothing while muscling their way between doctor and patient)......

...... and everyone goes ballistic.

Talk about a distorted sense of priorities and values. How much more fvcked up can we get?

Let me correct you: the price for the wars is about 2 Trillion. 2 Trillion was spent, mostly to kill people for no reason whatsoever.

Now asking for a fraction of that amount to save american lives: NO! Why? Because they are all black, or so their thinking seems to go.
post #21 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Now asking for a fraction of that amount to save american lives: NO! Why? Because they are all black, or so their thinking seems to go.

It's good to see that we're back to rational and reasoned discourse.
post #22 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

It's good to see that we're back to rational and reasoned discourse.

If you disagree then give me what you think is the reason.
post #23 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

If you disagree then give me what you think is the reason.

Of course I disagree. Your suggestion that people are opposed to the current heath care "reform" proposals because those that would become covered are black is so utterly ludicrous (not to mention offensive and inflammatory) it doesn't even warrant engaging in a "debate" over it.
post #24 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Of course I disagree. Your suggestion that people are opposed to the current heath care "reform" proposals because those that would become covered are black is so utterly ludicrous (not to mention offensive and inflammatory) it doesn't even warrant engaging in a "debate" over it.

I am calling the opponents out as racists. And you refuse to give a better explanation. Gotcha
post #25 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I am calling the opponents out as racists. And you refuse to give a better explanation. Gotcha

Therefore you must be right!!!

post #26 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Let me correct you: the price for the wars is about 2 Trillion.

Two trillion?Sources???
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #27 of 190
Poor whites outnumber poor blacks by 2:1. Officially there are about 20 million whites living below the poverty level and 10 million blacks. However as a percentage of the race, blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be living in poverty than whites. I think Tauron is right that racist will see this as a helping hand to blacks and would rather they get no help themselves than see a black person get any of their hard earned money.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #28 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It was a good speech. The teleprompter did well.

I really hope the next Republican president NEVER uses a TelePrompTer. I guess that means those on the left can mock and ridicule any Republican who ever uses a prompter? However, if anyone on the left did make a mockery of it -- it would be intellectually dishonest and relatively repugnant, though, to do so. Don't you think? I mean, I think it would make Democrats and liberals look childish and puny and insolent. So I hope they don't.

But it's fair game now, though.
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post #29 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

WRONG!!!

Bush reached across the isle... after he fabricated data about Saddam's WMD's and lied to everybody that the USA was under imminent threat.

But Republicans just spent eight years screaming at me that this was just, noble, and necessary.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #30 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I am calling the opponents out as racists. And you refuse to give a better explanation. Gotcha

Hey, man. He's just going on his "gut" instincts. You know, that revered instinct that Republicans felt was a "quality" worthy of a President. Or better yet, that "gut" instinct that Obama isn't really an American. Or that "gut" instinct that he's really a terrorist sympathizer.

Gut instincts are big deal to Republicans. Particularly Texas Republicans.

My gut instinct tells me there's a HUGE race component to those on the looney right. I'm not saying everyone on the right is a racist. I'm just saying those on the FAR right who are screaming the loudest most likely are.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #31 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Poor whites outnumber poor blacks by 2:1. Officially there are about 20 million whites living below the poverty level and 10 million blacks. However as a percentage of the race, blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be living in poverty than whites. I think Tauron is right that racist will see this as a helping hand to blacks and would rather they get no help themselves than see a black person get any of their hard earned money.

According to your numbers, there are more poor whites than black but the conclusion we must come to is that people are opposed to these proposals because blacks might be helped by it. This is a bullshit non sequitur. People are likely opposed for a wide variety of reasons (and racism certainly might be part of it, but doubtful it is all or even most of it).

The blinders and biases are coming to light. No one on the left can even fathom any reason for opposition to these proposals except racism (either against the poor blacks that might "benefit" from this or against Barack Obama himself) and hatred (either against the poor blacks that might "benefit" from this or against Barack Obama himself). It is inconceivable that people legitimately view this proposals as severely flawed or that they simply do not trust the rosy claims being made.

Worse, this becomes a distraction and a convenient excuse to avoid even discussing the valid and legitimate reasons people might be opposed, not the least of which are valid concerns that the rosy smelling claims being made today will result in manure smelling reality a few years from now.

Finally, those who can rationally predict the consequences of implementation of the current proposals will conclude that they actually have a very high probability of hurting the poor (and black people disproportionately) just as has happened with public education, public housing, minimum wage laws and all of the other wonderful socialist inventions of the left in this country.
post #32 of 190
Used to be when a politician promised "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage", folks were smart enough to know they were blowing smoke. Apparently, now they're racist.

Thing is, you gotta look at history and what happened right after that promise was made.
post #33 of 190
This country is still filled with a significant population of racists. To deny that is disingenuous.

Are they a minority voice in this country. Most likely, yes. Do they still get all the media attention? You bet your ass they do.
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post #34 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

According to your numbers, there are more poor whites than black but the conclusion we must come to is that people are opposed to these proposals because blacks might be helped by it. This is a bullshit non sequitur. People are likely opposed for a wide variety of reasons (and racism certainly might be part of it, but doubtful it is all or even most of it).

The blinders and biases are coming to light. No one on the left can even fathom any reason for opposition to these proposals except racism (either against the poor blacks that might "benefit" from this or against Barack Obama himself) and hatred (either against the poor blacks that might "benefit" from this or against Barack Obama himself). It is inconceivable that people legitimately view this proposals as severely flawed or that they simply do not trust the rosy claims being made.

Worse, this becomes a distraction and a convenient excuse to avoid even discussing the valid and legitimate reasons people might be opposed, not the least of which are valid concerns that the rosy smelling claims being made today will result in manure smelling reality a few years from now.

Finally, those who can rationally predict the consequences of implementation of the current proposals will conclude that they actually have a very high probability of hurting the poor (and black people disproportionately) just as has happened with public education, public housing, minimum wage laws and all of the other wonderful socialist inventions of the left in this country.

Those figures I gave are about right. There are far more struggling whites than blacks.

I completely disagree that things would be better without a minimum wage and public housing/education. Maybe you have an ideal that you think can make things better, but I haven't seen any evidence of that from say the Ron Paul camp or anywhere else on the right. His policies would condemn countless millions more to live in poverty and a much more brutal poverty at that.

I think the racial element is important. Racists must be seething with fury that blacks could get good healthcare. Remember too that most of these whites are too ignorant to know that their own race is without coverage more than any other and therefore even more willing to object to Obama's reforms. Whilst there's much to debate about the reforms, the racial element in the US shouldn't be removed when it's still motivating fairly large numbers of people. If anything it should be discussed more, so that maybe some of the them might better understand how the reforms will better their own race.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #35 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

This country is still filled with a significant population of racists. To deny that is disingenuous.

Are they a minority voice in this country. Most likely, yes. Do they still get all the media attention? You bet your ass they do.

I don't see anyone denying that there are racists out there, but I do see many on this board painting any and all objectors with a very broad brush of racism.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #36 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I don't see anyone denying that there are racists out there, but I do see many on this board painting any and all objectors with a very broad brush of racism.

That's a bit unfair.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #37 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That's a bit unfair.

I've noticed that the fine line between "political differences" and "racism" often gets painted with a wide brush.
post #38 of 190
The speech was an utter failure. Only a 20 point jump in the polls. It really should have been a 20.5 point jump. Obama is a failure.
Luckily he has an intelligent telepromter software which actually runs the country. Yes our administration is a 5MB computer software.
post #39 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I've noticed that the fine line between "political differences" and "racism" often gets painted with a wide brush.

That does happen but it doesn't mean we should ignore it.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #40 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Those figures I gave are about right. There are far more struggling whites than blacks.

I didn't dispute the numbers, only the conclusion that people opposing the health care proposals are doing so because of race.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I completely disagree that things would be better without a minimum wage and public housing/education.

Fine. Go look at the statistics. The poor (and blacks in particular) fare far worse under these things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Maybe you have an ideal that you think can make things better, but I haven't seen any evidence of that from say the Ron Paul camp or anywhere else on the right.

Look harder then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

His policies would condemn countless millions more to live in poverty and a much more brutal poverty at that.

This is your opinion, likely conditioned by years of assuming that "if the government won't do it ain't nobody gonna do it" not to mention either an unawareness or deliberate denial that government actions do (and often) have negative consequences that end up doing exactly the opposite of their good intentions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I think the racial element is important.

I think it's a red herring. But have fun with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Racists must be seething with fury that blacks could get good healthcare.

Maybe. Maybe not. But the implication that this is the core or majority or even significant portion of the opposition is a highly dubious (and yet to be supported by any facts or evidence) claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If anything it should be discussed more, so that maybe some of the them might better understand how the reforms will better their own race.

Why, so we can avoid talking about the real problems with the plans?

Racist smacist. This is smoke and mirrors. Show me something real and reliable that shows that a majority or even a significant portion of the opposition to these proposals is driven by race and then we can talk. At this point its just a dubious claim.
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