Originally Posted by Northgate
Republicans had full control of everything in the early oughts and they used reconciliation ALL THE TIME! Republicans ruled during that first term with an iron fist. To imply otherwise is dishonest.
No duh they used reconciliation. It is a standard operating procedure of the Senate. As NoahJ pointed out there are rules that govern the use of it though and they are about to get tossed.
I'm also glad to see that you've reserved the right to a double-standard all for yourself. The fact that you consider the job of running this country as a "knife fight" say a lot.
Save your false outrage for someone who cares. I've never claimed an exclusive right to anything and as is always the case for liberals, your false offense is laughable. The words "knife fight" would be the most tame thing you would have posted in the last two months and you act all offended. Please save it.
But that's not what's most disturbing about your attempt at an explanation. Your explanation flies in the face of the basic tenets of conservatism. You yourself have gone on tirelessly around here about how being "a decider" makes you strong. Sticking to your convictions and not backing down is the true American spirit. Remember "stay the course"? Remember when you guys laughed, mocked and ridiculed the notion of "nuance" as being weak and French like? Remember when you guys proudly put Bush on your shoulder for being unwilling to change a position? Remember your chants at Kerry for being a "flip flopper"?Was any of that shit real? Or were you guys all full of shit back then?
What I find most disturbing about liberals and their thinking is the increasing lack of ability to set boundaries or categorize thinking. Everyone is becoming some big cartoon target to them. See I have no idea what the hell your rant above is about. It consists of one part what I believe, about ten parts caricatures of conservatives, and then a few outlier that you want to lump in with that broadbrush of yours.
They all become the same target for you to hate and that is genuinely disturbing and sad.
The correct answer to the strange attempts at reasoning above is that being popular doesn't make something right and if you decide to stick within even as public sentiment turns on you, then reality will determine if it is right or wrong, not being popular.
I've been very consistent on this with Obama as well noting that he is doing things wrong even when they are at times, popular. I'll never endorse being popular making something right because it is a logical fallacy. If 80% supported or 80% opposed an Obama action, I'll still state and keep my view on it the same based off reason, not who's team is winning or popular. The whole second half of that paragraph I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps the meds are making you blend everything together.
Is Nazi propaganda abhorrent to you or not?
Are political demonstrations repugnant to you or not?
Are you for increased presidential power or are you not?
Are you for the Afghanistan war or are you not?
All propaganda is abhorrent to me. It doesn't have to be done by Nazi's.
Now as for yourself, liberal propaganda is just fine, and conservative propaganda in return would be proof they are evil, greedy racists.
In terms of political speech though, I've stated no spending limits, full disclosure. George Will articulates that well and I've linked to him several times abotu that.
No political demonstration is repugnant to me. When someone links to a sign at one and paints with their broad brush, I'll link to a similar picture from their own view and laugh at the lame reason spent trying to justify it. The reasoning isn't mine though and I am merely hoisting them on their own petard.
I'm not for increased presidential power unless it is used to roll back government power overall. Our government needs to get the hell out of hundreds of areas.
As for the Afghanistan war, I've stated that as a paleocon, I am not in favor of being the world's cop. I've stated I do not endorse Pax Americana and believe we should end it. That said if you are going to go through all that nonsense you can't do it halfway and you don't lay troops in harms way for political convenience. You don't vote against armor while debating if they should be there for example.
Reconciliation has real rules. It isn't spin. Health care is going to cost real huge amounts of money and most of it will be tax increases on younger folks who will be mandated to buy insure to cover their aging boomer parents who don't have a dime to their name. Instead of saving for their first house, they can pay for insurance when they don't need it some Grandma's Medicare goes broke a little more slowly.