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With iTunes 9, Apple again disables Palm Pre sync - Page 3

post #81 of 95
palm needs to piss off!!!
what is it with companies recently??? what makes companies think they have the right to use another companies intellectual property?? there are some many Idiots out there trying to leech off apple they should just go to hell like that stupid psystar company that just needs to have a nuke dropped on them

HOW ABOUT THEY ALL MAKE AND DEVELOP THEIR OWN SHIT AND STOP BEING STINGY BASTARDS
JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT AND ARE JEALOUS OF ANOTHER COMPANY AND ITS ACHIEVEMENTS
DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN HAVE SOME OF IT!!!
post #82 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

You can put MS Windows on any brand PC.

Yes. Microsoft's business is selling software.

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You can't put OSX on anything but Apple.

Yes. Apple's business is selling hardware

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There is MS Office for OSX.

Yes there IS

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There is no iWork for Windows.

Yes there ISN'T

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Windows Media Player, I believe, is also opened to any media player willing to follow specs.

Yes. Also designed to extract WMA licensing fees for 'many players" And further, designed to extract licensing fees for WMA encoders.

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iTunes is trying to prevent player that actually follows its specs.

Well yes... sort of. Apple want's you to buy their hardware. Microsoft want's you to license their proprietary formats. (That didn't work out too well did it? See: Plays For Sure Until it Doesn't)


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Unfortunately Apple is more Microsoftian nowadays than Microsoft is.

Well from ALL of your examples, Apple appears to be pretty much the polar opposite of Microsoft. And they always have been.
post #83 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

itu

find the exact code that analyzes the device, identifies if as coming from Palm and tells itunes to ignore the device.


you have it back wards
oalm makes the pre feel and look like a ipod to itunes servers
until apple upgrades its itunes SW for what ever reasom that are upgrading .

What you are saying sounds good . identify palm pre and crash those devices making all functions cease.
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #84 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

My point is really this: By allowing iTunes to be opened to Palm/RIM/MS/etc... means that people with these devices could BUY from the iTunes store (which is the main reason the software is free in the first place).

No, it isn't. The reason iTunes exists and is free is to give the iPods and iPhones a significant competitive advantage against other PMPs. iTunes store is not a significant profit center for Apple.

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They may not be Apple products, but Apple would be getting revenue, even taking it away from Rhapsody (ugh how I loathe them). On top of that, they would draw in customers to their eco-chain instead of pushing them away like they are now.

The best way to pull folks into their ecosystem is to not give it away to Palm. Other companies suck at building seamless user environments like iTunes the store and the iPod/iPhone.
post #85 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I was told Blackberries will sync with iTunes - if that is true, then it is obvious Apple wants money from numerous BB users, but at the same time as they know number of Pre users is still limited and would not generate significant income, they are trying to assassinate Palm Pre platform while still in its infancy in every possible way.

Rubbish! Look I realise that you are here to criticise Apple iwith most of your posts, but can't you at least use real ammunition and not stoop to fabricating bogus scenarios?

Rim built some simple software that syncs with iTunes database and allows easy transfer of non DRM content. Apple does NOT prevent this. Palm are free to build similar software that performs the same function. For some unexplained reason they have chosen not to.

Whether Blackberry owners buy content from iTunes or not is up to the individual user. NOT up to Apple.

There are around 300 million "smart" phones out there. Maybe around only 10% of them are iPhones. And there are many more music-capable phones. iTunes is not the de-facto standard for syncing phones with computers. Apple has no obligation, legally, morally or ethically to provide any more support (than they already do) to any other product.

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A bit of nasty, a bit of greedy, and all together ugly.

Can you explain why Palm cannot follow Rim's example and work WITH iTunes instead of just hacking it?
post #86 of 95
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Originally Posted by piot View Post

Unusual amount of the resident legal and business "experts" cropping up in this thread.

Is there any good reason why Microsoft would actually do that?

They would (if legally installed) be making more money from every Boot Camp Windows user then an OEM licence.

They did for the Home version for a short while. No use of the base Vista on VMs. They killed that legal limitation later on. Not likely that MS would bother again since they need as many folks moving off XP as possible.
post #87 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwingrav View Post

Remember that Free Software does not mean no cost.

Yes, it does. Show me any "Free" software that isn't either locked down via trademarks or such low cost that it's essentially zero cost software with a service contract or both.

The open source model is great for developers but sucks as a business model unless your business model depends on providing service contracts. Example: FOSS great for IBM. FOSS destroyed Sun.

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In this sense, I agree that iTunes store should be Freely accessible. Since Apple operates the iTunes store such that it makes little off it (it is a feature for its own products), then any company interfacing it should have free access but only if they pay for it. Then the store would be Free (Access) but not Free (in cost). Apple built it, gambled on it and spent its time making the business deals for it to work so they should receive that benefit.

Sure. Apple should charge a $250 license per 3rd party device to sync with iTunes. Wait, that's neither free or Free.

A pox on freetards for redefining basic words to be confusing.
post #88 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Can you explain why Palm cannot follow Rim's example and work WITH iTunes instead of just hacking it?

It's called being a cheapo.
post #89 of 95
Itunes 9 breaks the clicking on the green + button to switch to mini-player feature. Apparently this was a deliberate break by Apple. Discussion here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....80599#10180599
post #90 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

But a lot of people can't afford to get away from Windows for various reasons, and in not being able to run Windows on Mac they would be forced to stay with Windows, or have separate Mac and Windows computers.

I believe that would reduce current number of Mac users... \

Ok. The matter is academic anyway, since MS is not about to do that.
post #91 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post

Itunes 9 breaks the clicking on the green + button to switch to mini-player feature. Apparently this was a deliberate break by Apple. Discussion here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....80599#10180599

That's good. However, I have a strong feeling that Palm will come up with a break in 2 weeks time..
post #92 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Part of the appeal of "switching" is the ability to run both OS's. If you can't run Windoze and all your software that goes with it then why would you switch?

That is certainly a reason many likely choose to take the dive into Macs knowing they could be running Windows on it if they had to, but I feel that the internet has made proprietary software that works on only one OS less of an issue and that the Apple Stores dont get enough credit for helping people switch. Before the Apple Stores we only had crappy Mac kiosks wedged into corners of PC-dominated stores. They didnt have internet access and didnt have the appeal of the Apple Stores in bright, high-end areas.

MS wins in the short run if people are buying a full copy of Windows for their Mac, but they may lose in the long run if people stop using Windows altogether making that last retail copy of WIndows their last. Windows will not lose its dominance because of OS X, the numbers can never add up. If Apple was the largest worldwide PC vendor at 25% marketshare (what HP has) then theyd still only have 25% OS marketshare with Windows at nearly 75%.

PS: The only way I see for Windows to eventually fall is for open source, web-based OSes, like Googles ChromeOS, to actually work for selling/renting cheap PCs and PC-capable appliances to countries that are less industrialized and wealthy. These countries are itching for internet and I think ChromeOS is Googles clever plan to get advertising to the rest of the world by getting them online cheaply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Based on my understanding of Palm's complaint, I don't think that's going anywhere. Apple isn't blocking their devices from being recognized as USB devices (as far as I know) on any system; they are only stopping their specific application software from interacting with them. On the other hand, Palm is misidentifying their devices as another manufacturer's, which is a violation of USB standards. (And possibly a violation of trademark law, as well.)

Not to mention the fact that the standards body doesn't really have any enforcement powers that can be applied to either company.

This seems to be one of those situations where Palm knows they are breaking the agreement but know there is nothing that can be done to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Yes, open standards are good. The problem is that, as stated many times by Apple, and proven by the relatively small profit they make from it, iTunes is not designed as a profit area. Instead, it's designed to sell iPods. Now, with that in mind, why would they, then, open the iTunes store to anyone?

I think that is how the iTunes Store started off, but I think that economy of scale has served Apple very well. Its not there largest grosser and it surely helps to sell other products but I think that do make a hefty profit at this time. I had a problem a few months ago trying to gift a TV Show episode. It didnt work and then after repeated tries it charged me 4 times for it, but I never got confirmation. After talking briefly with iTS support via chat I got all the purchases removed and 4 free purchases on top of that. While that could just be great customer service I think that Apple has plenty of leeway with their store profits at this point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

I consider it highly unlikely that MS would do this. First of all, doing so would require that MS be able to tell that they are running inside a VM, and they cannot easily do so; the entire point of virtual machines is that they appear to the hosted OS exactly like real hardware, so the best they could do is detect the particular configuration that the VM's use, which would have the additional effect of blocking real hardware too. Moreover, even if they could reliably detect that they are running in a VM, they would have a hard time detecting that this VM was running on a Mac without cooperation from the VM vendors (which they are not going to get), so they would need to alter their OS so significantly that it wouldn't run on any virtual machine, and that would upset so many people that I think it unlikely that MS would ever do it.

To make such restrictions work would likely involve the use of hardware embedded authentication, and good luck getting manufacturers to go along with that. It is the very same reason it is possible to hack Mac OS to run on non-Apple hardware.

MS has already tried this by stating in the EULA that only certain versions of Windows Vista can be used in a VM. I think it was Basic that was not allowed, but I dont know if it was EULA only or if they had a way for the installer to verify. Regardless, it would be trivial to fool the Windows installer. The reason was to obviously sell the more expensive versions of Windows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by parky View Post

They already provide a way for others to access the iTunes library, Palm were just to lazy to bother.

I wonder if it was just a cost saving method or a clever way to generate press. They say bad press is better than no press, and Apple is the giant here. Other vendors have apps that tie into the iTunes library quite nicely but most dont know they exist, but even my parents know about the Apple and Palm situation with iTunes. Or perhaps Im giving Palm too much credit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

Microsoft should break iTunes with every version/patch they send out. iTunes would be nothing with out windows.

That would be anti-competitive, which is illegal. Both MS and Apple allow for anyone to write programs for their OSes. Apple has the iTunes Music folder and the iTunes Library XML file freely available and unencrypted for anyone to tie into with their apps for syncing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

itunes is an application, not system software

I would have thought so, too, but this does read differently.
All system applications except DVD Player, Front Row, Grapher, and iTunes have been rewritten in 64-bit.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/ I suppose one can argue that since they come with the system they are system applications even though they arent specifically required for the system to run.

PS: Remember when iTunes was part of iLife? Remember when we could sync and charge via FireWire much faster?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I was told Blackberries will sync with iTunes - if that is true, then it is obvious Apple wants money from numerous BB users, but at the same time as they know number of Pre users is still limited and would not generate significant income, they are trying to assassinate Palm Pre platform while still in its infancy in every possible way.

RiM has made there own app for Windows and OS X that will sync with the iTunes Library and grab the associated data files. You know, the ones in iTunes Music. it does not, in any way, connect to the iTunes app, pretend to be a USB device or any other shady method that Palm is using.

The link below has a demo you can watch.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/service...b_requirements * Note that the requirements have a certain version of iTunes listed. This does not mean that it runs iTunes, but that the iTunes Library XML file has to be of a certain version or later for the RiM app to correctly read the XML file as Apple tweaks it from time to time

PS: If they wanted to kill Palm there are other more effective ways they could have done it. As I mentioned earlier this method really is a good way for Palm to get free advertising as the David to Apples Goliath. How many here even knew RiM has an app for syncing to BBs. I know longtime BB users that didnt know until I told them.
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post #93 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: The only way I see for Windows to eventually fall is for open source, web-based OSes, like Googles ChromeOS, to actually work for selling/renting cheap PCs and PC-capable appliances to countries that are less industrialized and wealthy. These countries are itching for internet and I think ChromeOS is Googles clever plan to get advertising to the rest of the world by getting them online cheaply.

Perhaps. Red Flag Linux was supposed to have killed MS in China. But it turned out that gaming on office PCs was a perk that couldn't be given up easily... especially since pirated Windows and Office are also free.

Heck, if you wanted to be legit in China, Vista and Office goes for $3 with a student ID. OEM pricing is $7-$10. This is what Chinese agencies pay.

By the time you have an internet infrastructure that doesn't outright suck and families that can afford at least a cheap netbook then folks can afford Windows. Given piracy, the OS client side of the internet is not a major cost factor.

And face it, ChromeOS, like Android, is kinda a hobby for Google and not a core technology like OSX is for Apple and Windows is for MS. Google doesn't give away their crown jewels to open source any more than Apple does.
post #94 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

By the time you have an internet infrastructure that doesn't outright suck and families that can afford at least a cheap netbook then folks can afford Windows. Given piracy, the OS client side of the internet is not a major cost factor.

And face it, ChromeOS, like Android, is kinda a hobby for Google and not a core technology like OSX is for Apple and Windows is for MS. Google doesn't give away their crown jewels to open source any more than Apple does.

Khronos Group, which brought us OpenCL is record time, has now brought us WebGL to get HW accelerated graphics rendered within browsers. Maybe “good enough” games will be available without the use of Windows. Note: That is not to say that Windows with Direct11 or higher still won’t kick butt, but the web browser is evolving in ways that are removing some of the ideas we had about the way computers had to work.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/09...ebKit?from=rss I know Google stated that ChromeOS will find its way to netbooks next year but I don’t think that is where it will make the biggest impact. I’m seeing the vast majority of the world without the ability to pay $300 for a PC and for internet. Having cheap appliances that attach to TVs and cheap CRT monitors. Small boxes with a simple OS, like ChromeOS, with a slow ARM or Atom processor, less than 1GB of RAM and the few required ports. These could even be rented from the dial up or DSL ISP with a service contract. Basic internet withHTML5’s caching so that documents and spreadsheets can be created, media can be stored, and so forth. With such a lower powered OS and with even the cheap processors outpacing processors those from a decade ago I can see such a setup being more than adequate for the billions of people that currently have no computer or internet setup at the moment. This could help spark economic growth in these countries and areas while also giving Google the one thing it cares about most: ad revenue. This is how I can see Google getting a majority share with ChromeOS, not through some crappy netbook sales in a rich, industrialized nation because someone though it looked “cute”.
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post #95 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Khronos Group, which brought us OpenCL is record time, has now brought us WebGL to get HW accelerated graphics rendered within browsers. Maybe good enough games will be available without the use of Windows. Note: That is not to say that Windows with Direct11 or higher still wont kick butt, but the web browser is evolving in ways that are removing some of the ideas we had about the way computers had to work.
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/09...ebKit?from=rss I know Google stated that ChromeOS will find its way to netbooks next year but I dont think that is where it will make the biggest impact. Im seeing the vast majority of the world without the ability to pay $300 for a PC and for internet. Having cheap appliances that attach to TVs and cheap CRT monitors. Small boxes with a simple OS, like ChromeOS, with a slow ARM or Atom processor, less than 1GB of RAM and the few required ports. These could even be rented from the dial up or DSL ISP with a service contract. Basic internet withHTML5s caching so that documents and spreadsheets can be created, media can be stored, and so forth. With such a lower powered OS and with even the cheap processors outpacing processors those from a decade ago I can see such a setup being more than adequate for the billions of people that currently have no computer or internet setup at the moment. This could help spark economic growth in these countries and areas while also giving Google the one thing it cares about most: ad revenue. This is how I can see Google getting a majority share with ChromeOS, not through some crappy netbook sales in a rich, industrialized nation because someone though it looked cute.

Maybe, but HW acceleration for a web browser assumes there is hardware present that can do acceleration. Not so much in your scenario. Besides a "slow" ARM or Atom will be as fast as a PIII. Adequate to run Windows 7 or OSX.

And in your underpowered box from the dial up or DSL ISP isn't going to have the bandwidth to do anything anyway. And what ad revenue? Who's selling to folks with no money? This is not what I call a primo market demographic.

Probably better to take your limited funds and visit an internet cafe with a real PC than buying monthly ISP service with WebTV 3.0.
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