Steve Jobs talks iPod nano with camera, iPod touch without - Page 2

They sold one to me

I think it's a mistake to start pitching iPod Touch as a gaming machine. It's certainly waaay more than that. Why intentionally limit the market scope of your product?

I hope it's really just spin to paper over the technical issues they had with putting a camera in the Touch.

Except that the lens on the iPhone is NW of the Apple Logo, while the cases showed the opening as being directly centered.

In any event, I'm still kicking myself for selling my 16G 2nd Gen touch in anticipation of a 16G with camera. No way I buy a 32GB touch without a camera (the point would have been storage for the vids and pics), and the 8GB is only 2nd Gen technology.

I'm hoping this is just a way of clearing out the old 8GBs and that they'll release (soon!) a 16GB as the bottom rung.

Still haven't figure out how to tell my daughter that her dad's brilliant move to sell her about-to-be-inherited 16 GB touch blew up in his face.

\

Again- it wasn't called a "hobby" until after it wasn't selling. Doesn't Bezos call the Kindle a "hobby" for Amazon as well?

I think AT&T got pisst with it getting a mic. God only knows what they have in their iPhone contract.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of iPod touch users do NOT consider it to be primarily a 'gaming machine'.
Actual users use it as an iPhone without the phone, and real gamers consider it to be underpowered/underfeatured.
This is really lame spin to either mask a FU, or continue the artificial differentiation between touch and iPhone for margin reasons.

Agree 100%.

Was your post serious? You are trying to compare a music player to an ebook reader?

As far as the QuickTake, oh yes the first digital camera for the consumer, no matter the cost it was still cool as hell and groundbreaking, you could say that the eMate was one of the first netbooks as well and hell it had a touch screen, those were cool things, no matter if they misread the market, the kindle on the other hand .. meh.

Tech-heads and fanboys on Apple fansites on the ass-end of the net comprise a tiny fraction of Apple's customer base.

Yes, I have, and at least on Craigslist, its largely given away at ridiculously low prices or for free. The issue is you can't know the condition of a DVD/tape on sight, whereas you can know the condition of a book. eBay/Craigslist is just not like a good brick-and-mortar used book store.

In any case, the electronic revolution is making resales much more difficult. Not because of technology but because of sales policies. In time, this will change.

I doubt that he's really eating a lot of ice cream to gain weight - at least I hope he isn't. That would just be empty calories, and all the sugar would tax his pancreas to produce the insulin to deal with it.

There are several vegan alternatives to dairy-based ice cream, including coconut based ones that use agave for sweetening (that will still give you too much of a glycemic hit, but it's better than sugar).

I thought he was being sarcastic. But what was wrong with comparing the music player to an ebook reader at least insofar as they are both dedicated devices?

Not to mention the fat intake alone from all the butterfat in ice cream which would tax his heart and girth.

massive success is the side effect of repeated failures...if you are not willing to fail a few times along the way, you will never be great, Micheal Jordan lost a lot of games, and missed a lot of shots.

Every tech company has had massive failures and flops

IBM PC Jr

Microsoft Bob

Sony minidisc

Nintendo game cube

if you never fail, you will never succeed because you dont care enough to try...


Hmmm...maybe I should be a motivational speaker...

Well one is for the ears, the other for the eyes.

I don't think Amazon has ever said that the Kindle is a "huge seller", although it sells well enough to stay at the top end of their bestseller lists.

I don't even think they care that it is or not, as evidenced by the Kindle app for iPhone. They just want people to buy lots of Kindle e-books - just like Steve said, no warehouse, no UPS truck, high margin.

another marvelous display of wit.

What is interesting is with text-talk and iPod videos the eyes/ears have merged in our new multimedia world.

Just want to point out that Apple no longer gets a monthly kickback for its iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS. That only applied to the original unsubsidized iPhone with the $20 data plan, and it was possibly only for up to two years of service charges. Apple/AT&T never clarified if it was life-of-phone, or no more than two years (which Apple uses as the expected life of phone in its accounting).

What is your problem exactly?

Did the Apple TV do what it was supposed to do when you decided to buy it?
Does the Apple TV still do the things it is supposed to do?
Does the Apple TV do way more things than it did when you bought it, all for free I might add?
Did Apple ever promise you that it would ever do more than it is doing now?

So based on the fact that it does what it said it would when you bought it plus lots more things that Apple have given you for free - you still feel you made a bad choice when you bought it.

Now who's fault is that exactly? Yours?

I am more than happy with my Apple TV, I bought one as soon as they came out and I have loved each every free update I have been given, which adds value to the device every time.

Some people are just never happy. If you spent money it is because you decide to do so, not because Apple forced you or misled you.

Accept some responsibility for your actions, don't blame others. A rare thing nowadays,

Did I know the AppleTV was going to morph into basically an iTunes Digital jukebox when I bought it only asking for more and more $$?- NO.

Did I know that my music and video files would be thought of as secondary on the AppleTV when I bought it?- NO.

Did I know that Apple would consider it a mere "hobby" and not a full fledged product when I bought it? NO.

Did Apple ever promise you that it would ever do more than it is doing now? YES- except I took that to mean pertaining to my files - how stupid of me!

I'm very happy - especially with all my Apple products, just not the AppleTV.

I noticed that too. 1/2 mm thick nano.

Lets deal with your stupid replies.

1. The Apple TV was sold as an iTunes linked product, very clear from the start. In fact since then it has become a device that does not actually need to be linked to iTunes. It does not less now than when you bought it, just more, so how has it become something else?

2. What do you mean by secondary? Are they there, yes. Can you view them, yes. Get a grip!

3. Why the hell does it being a hobby make any difference. When you bought it you knew what it did. They did not say it would do more, so you were happy then.

4. What did Apple promise you then, show me the evidence!

Moan, moan, moan - the ever entitled masses!

Don't bother to reply as I can't be bothered to follow this thread anymore. Just moan on.

Typo. Should be .24 inch. See:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/compare-ipod-models/

And yes, one can buy nondairy ice cream, but if it has tofu in it, it's crap. Never eat unfermented soy:

WHAT?? That MUST be a joke.

Lots of bizarre comments here today, seems to be more dizzy broccoli consumption than usual going on here. And none of you guys are sharing.

Agave is not the miracle sweetener it was once thought to be. But yeah, stay a way from sweets.

Anyway beans and rice (especially when combined with dairy fat) will pack on the pounds. It's not the staple diet for a large part of the world for no reason. Still it all depends whether he has any appetite.

The $199 iTouch doesn't have the same hardware as the two higher priced models. It won't be able to run games nearly as well, in some cases, games might not be playable at all.

I am not surprised he went to Pogue. He knew no hard questions would be asked. Just more PR fluff.

My only question is does anybody actually take Jobs seriously when he opens his mouth? It seems he says incredibly stupid things when trying to rationalize Apple's product mix/features.

-kpluck

Lord Jobs is back and there is order in the heavens again.

As far as gaining weight is concerned, eat a few Pizzas and drink a few beers. That oughta do it.

anybody interested in early nano camera tests -> check these examples on youtube:

the internal effects are also shown

http://macnews.de/news/118710.html

There was a huge market for personal music player devices for years before the iPod (the walkman). The Kindle, unlike the iPod & AppleTV, was not an evolution from previous technology (tape -> CD/DVD -> Digital). Eventually, ebook readers will be more popular but they need to be more than just ebook readers. The first who figures this out will dominate that market segment.

199 is still hella expensive, especially if you consider that you are only getting the 8gigs. The reason apple can sell these is NOT because of the ipod but because of the apps and INTERNET.

Differentiate from iPhone?
You don't need a camera or gps or compass to do that. There are already 2 MAJOR reasons why iPhone is way better then iTouch with the same feature set: 1. PHONE, 2. Internet EVERYWHERE. These will always be enough to differentiate the products.

Sell more Ipods?
You bet this was a totall letdown. He could have kept the OLD iPhone at $199 (which he did) and add NEW ONES WITH CAMERA AND GPS for 299 and 399 respectively. That way you can sell a shitload of old cheap and featurless ipods, and a few GOOD FEATURE FULL ipods to those who want and can pay for them.

Don't need a crappy camera?
Speak for yourself, I don't need 100 Mega Pixels and 1000x zoom. Forget that, i want to take a pic of a friend doing something stupid, or something cool I see on the road while driving (like an accident scene). For that 3mp is MORE THEN ENOUGH. I don't want to carry a giant ass camera with a tripod everywhere I go, and having my pockets full with a camera (which is larger then the Touch) is and will suck. Of course I can use my phone camera, but then I have to transpher the pics on the ipod somehow.

I think that Apple did not want to mess with the touch while Jobs was not available to oversee the effort.

not too shabby. i think kids will have a great time playing with that

cough*BULLSHIT*cough

Sorry... I think those of us who have followed apple long enough know how they release hardware. They never hit the home-run... they always leave SOMETHING back that they will THEN include in the next release perhaps 3, 6, or 9 months later.

Happens with usb ports or firewire ports or superdrives or you name it..

If Apple can hold back a feature one that they know a certain segment of its users will want then they can either force them to double dip... getting the poor (rich actually) slob to buy the 'new' item now (w/o the feature) and then sell on ebay and rebuy the new one with the added feature when it arrives.

They've played the game with case styles and system features for a very long time... I don't blame them it's business... after all if they handed out ALL the features they developed across ALL of their product line ALL at the same time then they'd have a huge job enticing users to buy the a model 3 months from now. Its obvious...

The iPod Touch will be MILKED for all its worth...

1st version no real speakers unlike the iPhone.
2nd version got SPEAKERS!

Version after that got a Mic (or was that the same time as the speakers)

This latest version they get the new iPhone CPU.
Next version they add the camera
Version after that they add the GPS
Version after that...

See how it works... its called massively extending the longevity of a product with features you already have all worked out!

We all know the hardware costs are silly CHEAP and only get CHEAPER with each click of the second hand. We also know they could build the iPod Touch with the exact same feature set minus the cellular radio stuff but they don't and its not due to COST to the consumer that is the LAST thing Steve is worried about...

He's worried about selling the NEXT and the NEXT NEXT and the NEXT NEXT NEXR versions of the iPod touch.

And lets face it the plan works... Apple isn't the ONLY one who plays this game.

Dave

Which is what the reviewer also says in the voiceover - the nano video function is good for teenagers who film each other and their adventures, then upload to social network sites with a minimum of fuss or tech knowledge.

As for a still pictures: a still from a video usually looks bad, especially at this resolution (VGA)

For the record, I think the comment comparing the iPod to the Kindle (dedicated device) is just spin. As to why the Kindle isn't taking off - consider that when mp3 players came out, I could convert all my existing music (CDs) to play on it. I can't convert all my books to play on an eBook reader. So the books need to be really cheap to justify buying a second copy. Until that happens, eBook readers will continue to be niche products. I have an uncle who uses one, but it's only because of his physical condition. No one is going to re-buy (for example) the Twlight books for a eBook reader if they already have them.

Jobs' spin is Bull. Shit.

It's primarily a game machine because the touch doesn't have the GPS, Compass or Camera. As it's not a phone, it means the owners are probably carrying something else that does PIM Apps. So, yeah, they are disproportionately interested in game functionality. But that doesn't mean they're not interested in non-game features. It's just a reflection of the current hardware. Something Apple could have addressed. Apple does not want to be in the portable gaming business at the expense of the general pocket computing business.

The quest to $200? Apple didn't update the hardware in the 8GB. So what they did or did not add to the third gen hardware is irrelevant. They'd still have hit $200. They could have actually had a compelling reason for $200 customers to upgrade to $300 with a camera.

They want to differentiate from the iPhone? What about the phone. The iPod touch is sold, prominently, as 'no contract'. The iPhone is sold, prominently, as an all-in-wonder convergence device. Putting a camera and/or gps and compass in the touch isn't going to make convergence-device seekers accept a 2-device solution. So there's no rational fear of downgrades if they did. And by not doing it, I don't see anyone likely to upgrade to an iPhone for the GPS/Camera if they're in the market for 'no contract' to start with.

Sell more iPods? To who? Who's getting pushed over the edge to upgrade by a crappy video camera in a device that's on the way out? Are there really more of these hypothetical Nano customers than Touch customers who desperately wanted to upgrade to a camera? And isn't it better for Apple to transition mp3 buyers to Apple's own pocket computer platform than to draw an arbitrary hardware line that leaves them open to poaching from competitors?

I thought it was going to be called the iMin.

Your foolish reply simply implies that you would defend any product from Apple no matter how crappy it is. Later.

So, Apple aren't adding a camera to the iPod touch because it's a gaming device at a time when their biggest and most innovative rival is adding a camera to their dedicated gaming device?

Is it me or are these excuses getting weaker each time? I'd rather just hear the truth.

(Oh, and I'm one for the seven people who bought an AppleTV. )

I like your analysis and I think you're spot on... but perhaps left out one additional item.

Age...

Someone that would 'gravitate' towards an MP3 player was... especially at the time of their introduction either relatively young (having grown up with computers as an appliance) or a tech-geek who was on the net long before it was cool. Those of us born in a time when the Beatles were still an active band! (I guess you know where i land lol) So anyway... you've got a tech savvy young/hip buyer who knows his way around the net and bang instant success... People ripping their collections people sharing their collections jolt cola and pop rocks for everyone! (they don't sell that stuff anymore do they?) But yea the music world was hit DEAD ON by FULLY LOADED FREIGHT TRAIN at full speed and the funny part about it was they had no idea they were anywhere NEAR the tracks!



Now as you so elequently point out "I can't convert all my books to play on an eBook reader."

You might have a library of books that would rival any of the 'mega' CD collections people brag about. When we got married my wife had boxes and boxes and boxes of em... HEAVY AS HELL and we still got em every last one of them... all taking up space in MY computer room and MOST gathering dust because as we age our tastes change and our free time isn't so free anymore or as often as we'd like.

Now what I think some of the bigger publishers should do is this...

Provide a way for someone who owns their books to get a free or steeply discounted edition of the electronic edition of the book.

- Yea fat chance!

But I think SOMETHING has to be done to stimulate peoples interest and I'll tell you what, simply offering discount prices on some amazon web page is not going to work... My wife the reader in the house doesn't even know or visit any ebook related sites cause she is NOT a technology geek and that was part of the magic equation I talked about before that made the concept of MP3 players such a huge success. The INDUSTRY needs learn how to market themselves more aggressively but NOT with a pitch man screaming at you on a late-night TV infomercial or a QVC special. The need to get their product into the hands of people...

Donate hardware and books to kids in the cancer wards maybe? Worm your way on to Opera and have her give out a free reader and 25 free books (selections from her book list no doubt) to the audience. Stuff that'll get you noticed... Make commitments to match funding dollar for dollar to help get ebooks into the school systems. I dunno... but they gotta do something... and if they are already doing lots of stuff like this then something is really wrong cause I'm simply not hearing about ebooks except when it comes to rumors of Apple getting into the mix.

Take my silly idea of giving out ebook editions free or at discounted prices to people who own the hardcover... now something like that has the potential to start a ground-swell ... my wife gets a few free books offered to he and she buys the reader, then she tells her friends, it circulates amongst the book centric blogs forums and websites, it also circulates among the MANY 'cheap deals' web sites where people are always looking to buy something CHEAP!

Yea... it would certainly kick-start the market in the right direction... instead of stagnating as its done for years.

I guess NOT selling millions and millions of books (electronic mind you) at the MSRP is better than to sell boatloads of (electronic) books at 60% off. Yes I'm sure writers commissions are involved as is the reseller cut and the fees to deliver the data so they can't simply give the stuff away but they can make a SPLASH big enough to make people pay attention to them.

Right now... NOBODY is paying attention to ebooks but I can tell you right now.. if Apple developed a TRUE honest to goodness (usable) reader that entire market segment could change almost overnight!

Dave