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Apple's mindshare in Asia far outweighs marketshare

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
With just a sliver of phone and computer sales in the world's most populous region, Apple still managed to top all other companies to become the region's most admired in a new ranking.

Apple took top honors in The Wall Street Journal's Asia 200 survey this year, despite reportedly having just 1.6 percent of the personal computer share in the region, and only 0.6 percent of the total mobile phone market. The company's perceived success among consumers is attributed to superior marketing and branding of themselves.

When broken down by attribute, Apple consistently appeared among the top five companies ranked by consumers in Asia. For long-term vision, the Mac maker was second, fifth for quality, fourth for corporate reputation, and second for innovation.

While Apple's presence in the region is minor -- particularly in the smartphone market, where it has made great inroads in the western world -- Apple is working to change that. Last month, the handset maker struck a three-year deal to sell the iPhone on carrier China Unicom. That non-exclusive agreement has left the door open for a separate agreement with the world's largest wireless carrier, China Mobile.

And while the iPhone had struggled at first in Japan, the handset has continued to grow in popularity over the years. This summer, it became the nation's top-selling smartphone.

Still, the Journal noted, struggles remain for Apple to penetrate the market.

"While the company's iconic iPod is popular in Asia, Apple's iTunes store remains out of reach of most Asian consumers," the report said. "Apple has set up iTunes in Japan and Australia only. Copyright is the big hurdle. Apple has to conclude deals with individual record labels at the country level to allow songs to be sold on the iTunes platform in each market. That labyrinth process has mired efforts to make the service more widely available in Asia. The company is also likely concerned about piracy in Asia, say many analysts."



Apple's strength in a global recession has earned the company respect internationally. Last quarter, the company's profits rose 15 percent on sales of 2.6 million Macs and 5.2 million iPhones. It was a record non-holiday quarter for the company, with $8.34 billion in sales for the three-month period that ended June 27.
post #2 of 34
piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

The issues is not priacy but actually resolving deals with record companies, which not just the TOP 5 in world globally but the local BIG companies. Apple were able to do a deal in India with concern to the Bollywood movies, there would make a lot of in-roads into selling iPods/Inanos.

Bollywood makes more money per year than Hollywood easily.

IP have been resolved in India from 2005, since the Life Sciences is a booming industry, so I see no reason to worry about IP/Piracy, since piracy is the same were ever you go and India has some tough laws, if you get caught.

Hope Apple can crack the Indian market, since it one of the fastest growing consumer markets in the world, let alone, its economy.
post #3 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

The issues is not priacy but actually resolving deals with record companies, which not just the TOP 5 in world globally but the local BIG companies. Apple were able to do a deal in India with concern to the Bollywood movies, there would make a lot of in-roads into selling iPods/Inanos.

Bollywood makes more money per year than Hollywood easily.

IP have been resolved in India from 2005, since the Life Sciences is a booming industry, so I see no reason to worry about IP/Piracy, since piracy is the same were ever you go and India has some tough laws, if you get caught.

Hope Apple can crack the Indian market, since it one of the fastest growing consumer markets in the world, let alone, its economy.

I agree. If Apple could put stuff from Bollywood on iTunes store, this would be great, for both costumers and Apple. Though at times I wonder whether Apple has got the good mix of desire and skills to penetrate the Indian market.
post #4 of 34
Ah, this is just setting up for the next twenty years of cash flow growth, my friends. The first stage of ultimately any sale is 'awareness.'

I am holding.
post #5 of 34
Okay MS seen as having Long Term Plans, that is a joke, especial coming form the Asian community where they look at long term plans in terms of 5, 10, 25 and 50 years. Most Asian companies have very long term strategies verse their non Asian counter parts which change their strategies at a drop of the hat including MS, MS enter and exits strategies all the time they do not state the course.

Prime example is Toyota and Sony it took them 25 to 30 years to accomplish what they set out to do.

I can also tell you that apple/Steve is still executing against the long term plan they put together in 1984, which said they technologies will converge over time and that people will have technologies at their finger tips and easy access to information. Apple lose its way in the 90's but Steve has it back on track. Steve and Apple have a fundamental guiding principle which MS does not have and Steve is very much Asian in this way.
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

Actually it very different, at least in the US people do recognize IP and copyrights and that a person or company owns it and has rights to profit form it. In many Asian countries this is not a concept they get or really understand. They see everything is for the common good and just because it is your ideals, thoughts or creation does not precludes them from copying and making money off it.

In China they do not see a problem with taking music or videos and copying them and selling the, it is just the way things are done.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

If you believe that then you you really must talk to this guy in New York who is selling a bridge cheap--I think it goes to a place called Brooklyn.

Seriously, as "US$4b losses from software piracy in Asia" showed the piracy situation in Asia in 2000 was a full fledged crisis. The 2004 Oftware Piracy Study Finds That Asia Pacific Region Accounted For Almost Us$8 Billion In Losses Last Year showed that overall the mess had improved very minority. The 2008 Business Software Alliance report showed a increase in Asian Pacific piracy while the US stayed at its 20-21% the lowest of all the nations in the study.

Gangs and Organized Crime are involved in the oversees trade per (FBI, Chinese bust huge software piracy ring) and issues with government corruption and lack of resources-elements not seen in the US.
post #8 of 34
"And while the iPhone had struggled at first in Japan..."

Is there some proof of this? I sure hope AppleInsider isn't going by that lazy, discredited WIRED article! Here in reality, the immediate reaction to the iPhone in Japan was awesome, with long lines on the release date, sold-out stores, and week-long waits for the next round of buyers...
post #9 of 34
An iphone in India costs about 700$ with a 30$ a month tied in contract without 3G. India has one of the largest growing mobile markets in the world. All new product releases make it to this market first as phones don't have to be tied to a service provider. An ipod touch costs 400$ at Apple retailers. Apple wonders about market share? pfft. Clueless doesn't begin to describe it.

Anyhow, I am typing this on my iMac 9,1 so...
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post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

You've got to be kidding. In most parts of Asia you can find repackaged pirated goods being sold all over the place in stores. Heck, you can even find pirated goods all over the place in Chinatown, San Francisco, and even in places like the Japantown Mall there. And back in Asia, we're not just talking about DVDs and the like--it scales up to everything from video games to advanced watches and electronics.
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post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Bollywood makes more money per year than Hollywood easily.

Nope.

Quote:
Bollywood made a revenue of $1.75 Billion in 2006(estimated to rise to $3.4 Billion in 2010) which is only half the revenue of what one Hollywood studio, Walt Disney made in 2006 and that is saying a lot. However, while Hollywoods market inside the US has almost saturated, Indias 500 million population under the age of 20 will ensure that the market inside India will grow exponentially in the coming years.

Although Hollywood produces only a fraction of the number of films made all over the world, it garners a staggering 75% of total revenues. Also, 50% of its earnings(expected to grow to 80% in the next 20 years) come from the foreign market whereas for Bollywood it is 20%.

Hollywood has an overwhelming domination among the top grossers worldwide almost all of the top 50 movies are made in Hollywood. It has virtually eclipsed all other film industries except Bollywood for instance, the European film industry cut down to 1/10th of its size since 1910.

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post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

piracy in Asia is not different from piracy in US.

I can't speak to the issue of piracy in India, specifically, but in China piracy is ingrained in the culture so deeply and corruption in some areas is so pervasive that you can even find a giant mall filled with nothing but knock-offs in Shenzhen.

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post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Actually it very different, at least in the US people do recognize IP and copyrights and that a person or company owns it and has rights to profit form it. In many Asian countries this is not a concept they get or really understand. They see everything is for the common good and just because it is your ideals, thoughts or creation does not precludes them from copying and making money off it.

In China they do not see a problem with taking music or videos and copying them and selling the, it is just the way things are done.

I lived in Asia in major countries for many years, you are talking about 5-10 years ago and not sure if you seen the changes in Singapore, Malaysia, India, Korea, Thailand, were the police and government have really cracked down on piracy openly.

Btw China is not Asia, yes it has 1.4 or 1.6 Billion people, but India has 1.2 billion people and there have very tough laws on piracy now especially in Mumbai.

If there were issues in IP laws in Asia countries, then China and India would not be fastest growing countries with concern to life science outsourcing.

Lets get our facts correct.

Btw: Majority of people in US do not have a problem copying something where it innocent or not, so lets not go down that route. Just that more money has been poured into system to try and fear the people from Hollywood, record companies and software companies..
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nope.

I knew someone would post that article, if you live in India, people will laugh at you because everyone knows Bollywood does not post its real earnings because a lot of is off-shore due to Indian investors not wanting to pay tax in India.

Great example is Tata Chairman is said to be worth USD1 billion, everyone knows he worth much more that, but no one including Forbes has been able to obtain his worth. Mittel, Ambani etc also very private with their fortunes.

I should have said in terms of films and cinema sales/revenues, what I mistaken forgot is video, merchandising etc., which of course Hollywood makes a ton of money.

Soul
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Actually it very different, at least in the US people do recognize IP and copyrights and that a person or company owns it and has rights to profit form it. In many Asian countries this is not a concept they get or really understand. They see everything is for the common good and just because it is your ideals, thoughts or creation does not precludes them from copying and making money off it.

In China they do not see a problem with taking music or videos and copying them and selling the, it is just the way things are done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

An iphone in India costs about 700$ with a 30$ a month tied in contract without 3G. India has one of the largest growing mobile markets in the world. All new product releases make it to this market first as phones don't have to be tied to a service provider. An ipod touch costs 400$ at Apple retailers. Apple wonders about market share? pfft. Clueless doesn't begin to describe it.

Anyhow, I am typing this on my iMac 9,1 so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

If you believe that then you you really must talk to this guy in New York who is selling a bridge cheap--I think it goes to a place called Brooklyn.

Seriously, as "US$4b losses from software piracy in Asia" showed the piracy situation in Asia in 2000 was a full fledged crisis. The 2004 Oftware Piracy Study Finds That Asia Pacific Region Accounted For Almost Us$8 Billion In Losses Last Year showed that overall the mess had improved very minority. The 2008 Business Software Alliance report showed a increase in Asian Pacific piracy while the US stayed at its 20-21% the lowest of all the nations in the study.

Gangs and Organized Crime are involved in the oversees trade per (FBI, Chinese bust huge software piracy ring) and issues with government corruption and lack of resources-elements not seen in the US.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1022243 2008 Article so not 4-9 years!

This article is intended as a counterpoint to the all-too-frequent portrayal of China as the world's leading violator of intellectual property rights. In fact, by many measures, China, taken as a whole, is not the leading violator. Some measures show China as the leading violator only because they are aggregates, and do not take into account China's size. When figures are adjusted for population, China's rates of intellectual property violation are lower than those of many other countries, including the United States.

The article first looks at examples of the current round of political and media China-bashing. It then examines figures on international movie piracy provided by the Motion Picture Association (the international counterpart of the Motion Picture Association of America) and compares those figures to the populations of the countries involved. It concludes that the problem of movie piracy is more severe in the U.S. than in China, possibly because of greater broadband access, and more severe still in other countries, including France, Spain, and the United Kingdom.

Before you bash China get your facts right!
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1022243 2008 Article so not 4-9 years!

This article is intended as a counterpoint to the all-too-frequent portrayal of China as the world's leading violator of intellectual property rights. In fact, by many measures, China, taken as a whole, is not the leading violator. Some measures show China as the leading violator only because they are aggregates, and do not take into account China's size. When figures are adjusted for population, China's rates of intellectual property violation are lower than those of many other countries, including the United States.

The article first looks at examples of the current round of political and media China-bashing. It then examines figures on international movie piracy provided by the Motion Picture Association (the international counterpart of the Motion Picture Association of America) and compares those figures to the populations of the countries involved. It concludes that the problem of movie piracy is more severe in the U.S. than in China, possibly because of greater broadband access, and more severe still in other countries, including France, Spain, and the United Kingdom.

Before you bash China get your facts right!

It's precisely because China is so large that the impact of piracy is so large. You cannot adjust for population the losses of billions in pirated goods. The counter-argument is that the people stealing do it because they could not afford it otherwise, but that's just a cop out. They do it for the same reason that people might choose to sell drugs instead of work behind a desk. It's easier and the money's better, after all if you sell something that you paid nothing for that's pure profit. You can't claim ignorance on the fundamental wrong being done.

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post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's precisely because China is so large that the impact of piracy is so large. You cannot adjust for population the losses of billions in pirated goods. The counter-argument is that the people stealing do it because they could not afford it otherwise, but that's just a cop out. They do it for the same reason that people might choose to sell drugs instead of work behind a desk. It's easier and the money's better, after all if you sell something that you paid nothing for that's pure profit. You can't claim ignorance on the fundamental wrong being done.

Lets not try and change the facts with our own opinions!

Your comment about adjust for population, the losses of billions in pirated goods, think about that again. How can you compare USA with China unless you adjust for difference in population. Any stats taken in comparing countries has to take in differences in population, you can't just ignore it because it does not support your argument.

Sorry mate facts are facts.

NO one was saying it not wrong to undertake piracy, the discussion was the severity of piracy in China, which you so bluntly said was worse than USA.
post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Lets not try and change the facts with our own opinions!

Your comment about adjust for population, the losses of billions in pirated goods, think about that again. How can you compare USA with China unless you adjust for difference in population. Any stats taken in comparing countries has to take in differences in population, you can't just ignore it because it does not support your argument.

Sorry mate facts are facts.

NO one was saying it not wrong to undertake piracy, the discussion was the severity of piracy in China, which you so bluntly said was worse than USA.

Let's look at it as a math problem:

USA population = approx. 304 million
China population = approx. 1,330 million

So you see, with a population more than 4 times the US, China's cumulative pirate activities could be staggeringly severe ... mate. Even if a quarter of their population was involved in some form of piracy or whatnot, it would still be greater than the entirety of the American populace. There's no definitive proof of how the total numbers of pirated/stolen/knock-offs affect economies, but they do affect the companies whose products are being trafficked, copied, sold under the table, etc.

Every country has an underground economy, after all that's how things really work out in the world, so what have you to say about the real-world black market in India?

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post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

There's no definitive proof of how the total numbers of pirated/stolen/knock-offs affect economies, but they do affect the companies whose products are being trafficked, copied, sold under the table, etc.

Attached is a recent report on software priracy. Per the report, China has improved from about 90% pirated to about 80% pirated in the last 5 years....I guess you can call this a 100% improvement, but hardly a success.

Even so, the most dollars lost due to software piracy are here in the US. We may not have as many people, but we have lots of computers and expensive software.

http://global.bsa.org/globalpiracy20...piracy2008.pdf
post #20 of 34
Thanks for the report Jyhfeei, very interesting reading.

SpamSandwich just for you, from the report

United States $9,143
China $6,677
Russia $4,215
India $2,768
France $2,760
United Kingdom $2,181
Germany $2,152
Italy $1,895
Brazil $1,645
Japan $1,495
Canada $1,222
Spain $1,029
Mexico $823
Poland $648
South Korea $622
Australia $613
Thailand $609
Netherlands $563
Indonesia $544
Ukraine $534
Venezuela $484
Turkey $468
Sweden $372
Malaysia $368
Switzerland $345

Of course we need to implement strategies to ensure that people's perception of piracy changes in the Asian countries, so that it shows negative growth, but let's ensure we also keep focusing on 'developed' countries.

India + China = 9,445 vs. USA 9,143

Population 2.48 Billion vs. 304M
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Thanks for the report Jyhfeei, very interesting reading.

SpamSandwich just for you, from the report

United States $9,143
China $6,677
Russia $4,215
India $2,768
France $2,760
United Kingdom $2,181
Germany $2,152
Italy $1,895
Brazil $1,645
Japan $1,495
Canada $1,222
Spain $1,029
Mexico $823
Poland $648
South Korea $622
Australia $613
Thailand $609
Netherlands $563
Indonesia $544
Ukraine $534
Venezuela $484
Turkey $468
Sweden $372
Malaysia $368
Switzerland $345

Of course we need to implement strategies to ensure that people's perception of piracy changes in the Asian countries, so that it shows negative growth, but let's ensure we also keep focusing on 'developed' countries.

India + China = 9,445 vs. USA 9,143

Population 2.48 Billion vs. 304M

You could look at this report another way. China is a huge potential market that has a long way till maturity. If as much software (worth) per person was used in China as the US, the amount of value pirated in China would be 17.5 times the value pirated in the US.

(80% pirated in China/ 20% pirated in US) x (1330 million people China / 304 million people US) = 17.5 times!

China's software market (and the rest of Asia) is growing fast and they need to keep significantly reducing piracy rates or they will quickly surpass US in piracy worth.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyhfeei View Post

You could look at this report another way. China is a huge potential market that has a long way till maturity. If as much software (worth) per person was used in China as the US, the amount of value pirated in China would be 17.5 times the value pirated in the US.

(80% pirated in China/ 20% pirated in US) x (1330 million people China / 304 million people US) = 17.5 times!

China's software market (and the rest of Asia) is growing fast and they need to keep significantly reducing piracy rates or they will quickly surpass US in piracy worth.

But I think I did say that Asian countries need to keep focusing on piracy initiatives. see summary from the report of their efforts.

Asia-Pacific
• In China, the break up of a massive counterfeiting ring
in late 2007 and the subsequent trials in 2008 set a
stern anti-piracy tone for the year. Also during 2008,
BSA sent out 53,000 “notice and takedown” letters to
Chinese Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in an effort to
counter Internet piracy. The government conducted
enterprise end-user raids in numerous regions,
including Jinlin, Hainan, Shanxi, Shanghai, Beijing,
Xian, Wuhan, Shenyang, and Qingdao. The Chinese
government also continued its efforts to ensure legal
use of software in government agencies and stateowned
enterprises.
• In Hong Kong, 2008 saw the government amend
copyright laws to make it easier for criminal
enforcement against end-user piracy and conduct
more highly publicized raids on infringing hard-disk
loaders. The extension of the government’s Genuine
Business Software Campaign (GBSC) reached 50,000
companies and increased software vendor revenues
from legalization programs.
• While enforcement of intellectual property rights (IPR) is
a challenge in India, BSA was able to obtain 25 “Anton
Piller” orders (search and seizure orders) to investigate
software piracy. Also in 2008, BSA and the State of
Karnataka launched a campaign to encourage small
and medium companies to adopt SAM practices and to
support use of original software.



Btw Canada was placed on Piracy list by United States Trade Representative, who print the list (LAUGH, no mention of USA itself) due to their poor laws and enforcement.

lets not expect miracles overnight.
post #23 of 34
I went on holiday to the Philippine Islands recently. Oh my god. Massive markets full of knock off western products and the cops do nothing. Well, I heard they do a token raid on like one stall every so often.
post #24 of 34
I live in Bali, Indonesia. The Apple iPhone is being massively promoted here.. although it's just the older 3g model with no apparent plans for the new model. Indonesians as a rule don't sign up for phone contracts, overwhelmingly preferring pre-pay systems. I was horrified at the price when I enquired. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was sheer robbery. Blackberries are being pushed too.
Software piracy is not just rampant. Probably due to software publisher restrictions (I'm assuming this, but can't explain it otherwise), you can buy really high-end (mostly PC-based) software at my local supermarket and other outlets, so if I were minded to, I could get Adobe CS4 suite for about USD10, Archicad 12, Autodesk products like 3ds Max Design 2010 and Autocad 2010 for about USD5, and plenty of other stuff such as Solidworks, VRAY, music, video etc etc applications. If you go to certain bookshops you can pick up Indonesian-language books on all these for a few dollars. They also come with CDs stuffed with training videos, sample files. It's no surprise that there are many local Indonesians who have learned high-end CAD and 3D software cheaply, and install the software onto low-spec PCs.

Despite the new smallish shops pushing Macs (PC Max),there is no legal way to purchase Mac software here. Despite this, you can see more and more Macbook pro-toting people taking advantage of the many wi-fi equipped restaurants and cafes.
I bought a full-price legitimate copy of Adobe Design Premium CS3 two years ago in Singapore. Ouch.
There are few Mac titles available here, but can be found if you look. I've seen lots of pirated Mac software in a mall in Kuala Lumpur, but that's a plane-trip away.
Movie DVDs are practically all inferior duplicates, (some with Russian sub-titles) but quality does vary, and can be occasionally really good. These retail for about 1 dollar. Tourists come here and buy them by the ton.
This is a way of life. Making the real thing available at normal retail prices probably won't work.
Fake cosmetics, watches, designer clothes. Bad enough when it is sold as the real thing. Worse when it contains dangerous chemicals. Scary.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauriceg View Post

I live in Bali, Indonesia. The Apple iPhone is being massively promoted here.. although it's just the older 3g model with no apparent plans for the new model. Indonesians as a rule don't sign up for phone contracts, overwhelmingly preferring pre-pay systems. I was horrified at the price when I enquired. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was sheer robbery. Blackberries are being pushed too.
Software piracy is not just rampant. Probably due to software publisher restrictions (I'm assuming this, but can't explain it otherwise), you can buy really high-end (mostly PC-based) software at my local supermarket and other outlets, so if I were minded to, I could get Adobe CS4 suite for about USD10, Archicad 12, Autodesk products like 3ds Max Design 2010 and Autocad 2010 for about USD5, and plenty of other stuff such as Solidworks, VRAY, music, video etc etc applications. If you go to certain bookshops you can pick up Indonesian-language books on all these for a few dollars. They also come with CDs stuffed with training videos, sample files. It's no surprise that there are many local Indonesians who have learned high-end CAD and 3D software cheaply, and install the software onto low-spec PCs.

Despite the new smallish shops pushing Macs (PC Max),there is no legal way to purchase Mac software here. Despite this, you can see more and more Macbook pro-toting people taking advantage of the many wi-fi equipped restaurants and cafes.
I bought a full-price legitimate copy of Adobe Design Premium CS3 two years ago in Singapore. Ouch.
There are few Mac titles available here, but can be found if you look. I've seen lots of pirated Mac software in a mall in Kuala Lumpur, but that's a plane-trip away.
Movie DVDs are practically all inferior duplicates, (some with Russian sub-titles) but quality does vary, and can be occasionally really good. These retail for about 1 dollar. Tourists come here and buy them by the ton.
This is a way of life. Making the real thing available at normal retail prices probably won't work.
Fake cosmetics, watches, designer clothes. Bad enough when it is sold as the real thing. Worse when it contains dangerous chemicals. Scary.

Exactly my experience. I've also seen DVDs for sale before the movies are out at the theaters.

And this is not in a back alley off the back of a truck....

In these countries, most people can't afford the price of a clear conscience.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauriceg View Post

I live in Bali, Indonesia. The Apple iPhone is being massively promoted here.. although it's just the older 3g model with no apparent plans for the new model. Indonesians as a rule don't sign up for phone contracts, overwhelmingly preferring pre-pay systems. I was horrified at the price when I enquired. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was sheer robbery. Blackberries are being pushed too.
Software piracy is not just rampant. Probably due to software publisher restrictions (I'm assuming this, but can't explain it otherwise), you can buy really high-end (mostly PC-based) software at my local supermarket and other outlets, so if I were minded to, I could get Adobe CS4 suite for about USD10, Archicad 12, Autodesk products like 3ds Max Design 2010 and Autocad 2010 for about USD5, and plenty of other stuff such as Solidworks, VRAY, music, video etc etc applications. If you go to certain bookshops you can pick up Indonesian-language books on all these for a few dollars. They also come with CDs stuffed with training videos, sample files. It's no surprise that there are many local Indonesians who have learned high-end CAD and 3D software cheaply, and install the software onto low-spec PCs.

Despite the new smallish shops pushing Macs (PC Max),there is no legal way to purchase Mac software here. Despite this, you can see more and more Macbook pro-toting people taking advantage of the many wi-fi equipped restaurants and cafes.
I bought a full-price legitimate copy of Adobe Design Premium CS3 two years ago in Singapore. Ouch.
There are few Mac titles available here, but can be found if you look. I've seen lots of pirated Mac software in a mall in Kuala Lumpur, but that's a plane-trip away.
Movie DVDs are practically all inferior duplicates, (some with Russian sub-titles) but quality does vary, and can be occasionally really good. These retail for about 1 dollar. Tourists come here and buy them by the ton.
This is a way of life. Making the real thing available at normal retail prices probably won't work.
Fake cosmetics, watches, designer clothes. Bad enough when it is sold as the real thing. Worse when it contains dangerous chemicals. Scary.


mauriceg

1: do you know who are those ppl purchasing those pirated softwares, such as adobe CS3/4 etc? are they local or foreigners? my worst fear is that ppl from US or other advanced countries are purchasing those pirated softwares over there.
2: do you know whether there is an artistic design hub in bali? i would imagine so, otherwise how could those adobe suites could be sold?
3: what is the ratio of ppl in bali who owns a high end computer and also use it as we do in the states?
4: what language do those bali ppl speak of? english? or are they all fluent in english? or do those pirated softwares have localized copies? last time i checked, adobe suite only is made into some localizations, such as english/japanese/western european, etc. i am surprised that they would have a special localization for bali ppl.
5: yes, a suite of adobe means alot for a designer in US, but it is useless for majority of bali ppl.
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyhfeei View Post

Attached is a recent report on software priracy. Per the report, China has improved from about 90% pirated to about 80% pirated in the last 5 years....I guess you can call this a 100% improvement, but hardly a success.

Even so, the most dollars lost due to software piracy are here in the US. We may not have as many people, but we have lots of computers and expensive software.

http://global.bsa.org/globalpiracy20...piracy2008.pdf

this report is bullshit. how could they do any possible calculation like this? an intuit tax return software means nothing to a chinese or an indian as there is no personal taxation system in those countries; an adobe suite has no meaning for a chinese who does not understand english because adobe exited chinese market long time back.

yes, a PC could be equipped with a given amount of software units, but it is not true in every place as PC sold in china or india could have limited memory or varied system configuration which could severely limit how many software packages they can install.
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by anakin1992 View Post

this report is bullshit. how could they do any possible calculation like this? an intuit tax return software means nothing to a chinese or an indian as there is no personal taxation system in those countries; an adobe suite has no meaning for a chinese who does not understand english because adobe exited chinese market long time back.

yes, a PC could be equipped with a given amount of software units, but it is not true in every place as PC sold in china or india could have limited memory or varied system configuration which could severely limit how many software packages they can install.

I do not know about China, but India has a personal taxation system, since I live there and just did my tax returns 2 months ago in July. India has band system for taxation, which majority of people in poorer bracket, do not pay tax.

It starts at 10% and goes up to 33%.

India is also planning on introducing e-filing completely in next couple of years.
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

But I think I did say that Asian countries need to keep focusing on piracy initiatives. see summary from the report of their efforts.

Asia-Pacific
In China, the break up of a massive counterfeiting ring
in late 2007 and the subsequent trials in 2008 set a
stern anti-piracy tone for the year. Also during 2008,
BSA sent out 53,000 notice and takedown letters to
Chinese Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in an effort to
counter Internet piracy. The government conducted
enterprise end-user raids in numerous regions,
including Jinlin, Hainan, Shanxi, Shanghai, Beijing,
Xian, Wuhan, Shenyang, and Qingdao. The Chinese
government also continued its efforts to ensure legal
use of software in government agencies and stateowned
enterprises.
In Hong Kong, 2008 saw the government amend
copyright laws to make it easier for criminal
enforcement against end-user piracy and conduct
more highly publicized raids on infringing hard-disk
loaders. The extension of the governments Genuine
Business Software Campaign (GBSC) reached 50,000
companies and increased software vendor revenues
from legalization programs.
While enforcement of intellectual property rights (IPR) is
a challenge in India, BSA was able to obtain 25 Anton
Piller orders (search and seizure orders) to investigate
software piracy. Also in 2008, BSA and the State of
Karnataka launched a campaign to encourage small
and medium companies to adopt SAM practices and to
support use of original software.



Btw Canada was placed on Piracy list by United States Trade Representative, who print the list (LAUGH, no mention of USA itself) due to their poor laws and enforcement.

lets not expect miracles overnight.

Have you been to China? These seizures and reports are for foreigners to satisfy them that something is being done. Like I said before, China is the biggest shell game in the world. What one hand giveth, the other taketh away.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #30 of 34
souliisoul,

No, I have not been to India, and personally I would not go there and for only one reason, because of the cast system that exist there, the poor will always stay poor and rich will do everything they can do to keep them poor. Do not tell me it does not happen my wife spent a month there on two occasions, once in Deli and the other in your home town and what she witness was horrible and she will never go back and she has traveled to many places enjoys learning about the culture and did spend time with locals learning about the culture it was the worse experience she had because the way people are treated

My personal opinion about India they will never be truly successful because of the cast system that exist. A country can not grow unless everyone in the country has the right to succeed the Indian cast system does not allow this.

Now back to the point here, Asian businesses steal ideals, products and content all the time and sell it as their own. I been to these country you mention and see it all the time people right out in the open selling knockoff or exact duplicate of products made by US and European companies as well an Japanese companies. I even seen where they are sell the US companies products and just remove the trade name. These are no knock off they are the exact product most like made in the exact factory the US company use to build their product and this factory makes extras and sells it themselves. They have no problem doing it, Yes the governments cracks down on it only is a jester to show the world they are trying to control it.

Also if China did not promote these activities why do they have a Mall in Shenzhen which is call the Fake Mall which I personally saw when I was there, it sell nothing but good which are exact knock off made by other companies in other countries. They sell products which are design in the US and the copied and manufacture in China.

I'll give you another good example of knocking of a design, look at the Hyundai Entourage minivan, it almost an exact knock off of the Ford Windstar, it actually uses some of the same designs of parts, and no Ford and Hyundai do not have deal. Hyundai just copied it. So yes Hyundai is becoming a successful car company not because they figured out how to design a better car they just took every other car companies ideas and used it as their own.

Again if you talk to the people from companies or countries they do not see a problem with this, they do not see a problem making money off other people's idea. This is fundamental cultural difference in these countries and the US.

I will give China some credit, they do allow US product to be sold in their country, I saw people driving around US design cars, can't say whether they were actually made in the US or not but people were driving them around. Also saw other real US products, which I know are manufactured in China, but they had the company name on them and were being used and sold at the US market price for those items.

I would not say people in the US do not pirate music and videos, but this is mostly limited to kids and a small population, but Apple has shown if you provide people a better model that will not copy electronic content, thus the reason they had 8.5B downloads. What you do not see in the US is wholesale copying of other companies ideas and selling and marketing them as their own. Yes might see a a few people on the streets of NYC selling a knock off purse, but you do not see US companies making knock off products and putting them into the market place.

So before you go off and tell me I have no idea what I am talking about or my facts are old, I have first hand knowledge and experience and just because you found some government propaganda saying these countries are doing everything they can to stop this you better open your eyes and look around. I would say start with your own country, Since i know that India was one of the largest user of Cracked iphones when only AT&T was selling them. My wife said she work with a number of people there who all had iphone, I wonder how they got them.
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

I knew someone would post that article, if you live in India, people will laugh at you because everyone knows Bollywood does not post its real earnings because a lot of is off-shore due to Indian investors not wanting to pay tax in India.

Great example is Tata Chairman is said to be worth USD1 billion, everyone knows he worth much more that, but no one including Forbes has been able to obtain his worth. Mittel, Ambani etc also very private with their fortunes.

I should have said in terms of films and cinema sales/revenues, what I mistaken forgot is video, merchandising etc., which of course Hollywood makes a ton of money.

Soul

Well this is true, a family friend from Germany works for UBS banking and investments and he deals with mainly Indian clients and he said it all secret and you never know who the client is they only deal through account numbers and such.

Again it is the rich doing what every they can to make sure the low cast can not get a leg up in the world.
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Have you been to China? These seizures and reports are for foreigners to satisfy them that something is being done. Like I said before, China is the biggest shell game in the world. What one hand giveth, the other taketh away.

Yes worked there on and off for 6 years, better much lived in majority of major countries including USA. So I can compare knowing I had first hand experience
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Have you been to China? These seizures and reports are for foreigners to satisfy them that something is being done. Like I said before, China is the biggest shell game in the world. What one hand giveth, the other taketh away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

souliisoul,

No, I have not been to India, and personally I would not go there and for only one reason, because of the cast system that exist there, the poor will always stay poor and rich will do everything they can do to keep them poor. Do not tell me it does not happen my wife spent a month there on two occasions, once in Deli and the other in your home town and what she witness was horrible and she will never go back and she has traveled to many places enjoys learning about the culture and did spend time with locals learning about the culture it was the worse experience she had because the way people are treated

My personal opinion about India they will never be truly successful because of the cast system that exist. A country can not grow unless everyone in the country has the right to succeed the Indian cast system does not allow this.

Now back to the point here, Asian businesses steal ideals, products and content all the time and sell it as their own. I been to these country you mention and see it all the time people right out in the open selling knockoff or exact duplicate of products made by US and European companies as well an Japanese companies. I even seen where they are sell the US companies products and just remove the trade name. These are no knock off they are the exact product most like made in the exact factory the US company use to build their product and this factory makes extras and sells it themselves. They have no problem doing it, Yes the governments cracks down on it only is a jester to show the world they are trying to control it.

Also if China did not promote these activities why do they have a Mall in Shenzhen which is call the Fake Mall which I personally saw when I was there, it sell nothing but good which are exact knock off made by other companies in other countries. They sell products which are design in the US and the copied and manufacture in China.

I'll give you another good example of knocking of a design, look at the Hyundai Entourage minivan, it almost an exact knock off of the Ford Windstar, it actually uses some of the same designs of parts, and no Ford and Hyundai do not have deal. Hyundai just copied it. So yes Hyundai is becoming a successful car company not because they figured out how to design a better car they just took every other car companies ideas and used it as their own.

Again if you talk to the people from companies or countries they do not see a problem with this, they do not see a problem making money off other people's idea. This is fundamental cultural difference in these countries and the US.

I will give China some credit, they do allow US product to be sold in their country, I saw people driving around US design cars, can't say whether they were actually made in the US or not but people were driving them around. Also saw other real US products, which I know are manufactured in China, but they had the company name on them and were being used and sold at the US market price for those items.

I would not say people in the US do not pirate music and videos, but this is mostly limited to kids and a small population, but Apple has shown if you provide people a better model that will not copy electronic content, thus the reason they had 8.5B downloads. What you do not see in the US is wholesale copying of other companies ideas and selling and marketing them as their own. Yes might see a a few people on the streets of NYC selling a knock off purse, but you do not see US companies making knock off products and putting them into the market place.

So before you go off and tell me I have no idea what I am talking about or my facts are old, I have first hand knowledge and experience and just because you found some government propaganda saying these countries are doing everything they can to stop this you better open your eyes and look around. I would say start with your own country, Since i know that India was one of the largest user of Cracked iphones when only AT&T was selling them. My wife said she work with a number of people there who all had iphone, I wonder how they got them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Well this is true, a family friend from Germany works for UBS banking and investments and he deals with mainly Indian clients and he said it all secret and you never know who the client is they only deal through account numbers and such.

Again it is the rich doing what every they can to make sure the low cast can not get a leg up in the world.

Firstly stop your ranting because, I am not Indian and work as expat in India. So you ranting about look at my own country is completely off the chart. I love India because the poor and rich live together in harmony majority of the time. You can see this very prominently in Mumbai. I am not looked at in inferior way as I was when working in USA.

Secondly the cast system is practiced more in villages/country areas, then in Metro cities and not sure where your wife was but I have lived here for a year and the cast system is nothing like what it was 10 years, when I was working in India before. Th cast system is not stopping India from growing, since it shown better growth then USA and majority of 'developed' countries in the economic climate of late 2007 until now.

The cast system is dying out and people respect people if they are hard working and have ambition. I am not saying the cast system is non-existent, but it is being seen as negative thought by many people in India. The villages/countryside people keep it more, but ever the young in such areas are less focused on cast system.

As for cracked iphones, may people are proud of their possessions and you would not see a cracked iphones being sold in shops. If you are talking jailbreaked iphones, so your wife worked with group of say hundred or thousand people and that makes India largest place to found jailbreaked iphones, interesting argument.

Lastly I will take a bet with you that cast system will become non-existent in India faster than removal of racism from USA.

If you live in a Glass House, Do not throw stones!

I lived in USA for 5 years, I was in a senior position in TOP 5 Pharma company and my motto has always been to work hard and ignore racism, bitter people, but my experience in a 'developed country like USA was unbelievable.

Mittel Steel and Ambani brothers, you may want to look up their background, since they all came from very poor start.


When you have actually lived in a place for a LONG time, then you can make comments, but make sure you looking at your OWN country first!

P.S. Take a trip to SOUTH Alabama, but racism is more open there, since in NorthEast USA e.g. NY, PA, New Jersey and Maryland it is people hiding in closet being racist, which is worst.

I try take the best from every country, since there is no country in the world that does not have some major issues to resolve.
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Well this is true, a family friend from Germany works for UBS banking and investments and he deals with mainly Indian clients and he said it all secret and you never know who the client is they only deal through account numbers and such.

Again it is the rich doing what every they can to make sure the low cast can not get a leg up in the world.

Your last statement so full of crap, you could sell it for garden manure in Home Depot. Everyone with money from middle income earners to super rich, have foreign investments/accounts to avoid taxes, it is not only the super rich.
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