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From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD - Page 4

post #121 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

the 17,000 hour half life was a revision by a third party on a Sony claim of 30,000 hours.

They're dropping after 2,000.

Quote:
I did note that the OLED display on an older device of mine seemed plenty bright to me. A sample of one doesn't conclude an argument, but I do wonder in practical terms whether the brightness factor is actually an issue when all is said an done. Neither the article writer, nor myself have seen the Zune HD in action. It is likely I may never have the opportunity.

I've not seen the Zune HD either, but other small displays I've seen looked good, but not up to the quality of an LCD.

Quote:
I didn't say "poor" so you shouldn't put it in quotes like I did. I said "inferior", which is different. Just a minor point. I wasn't really having fun either. What I was trying to demonstrate was that you could not conclude that as a whole LCDs were poor based on looking at a MacBook LCD in exactly the same way you can't conclude that OLEDs are poor simply by evaluating that type of display on the Sony Cellphone. This appears to be the conclusion the author is making.

Not one of Apple's displays has ever been truly bad, other than for quality of manufacturing issues, which is something else. Not all have been truly great either. But that's not the issue, is it? This is a different issue. It's whether an entirely new type of display is ready for prime time.

Is an OLED display good enough for a music player or phone, but not good enough for a video player? See what I'm saying? If it washes out in bright light, but not sunlight, then that's a problem. Maybe the Zune Hd's display is better than the other small OLEDs I've seen, but maybe not.

The problem with OLED displays is that they've been hyped so much that it's difficult for the average person to know what's true, and what isn't.

For some time, I've been reading that they will be so bright that they will be easily seen outdoors. Well, everyone in the business that I've spoken to thinks that's a crock. Maybe, eventually, they will get to the point of being decent outdoors, but that will take years of efficiency gains. It won't happen next year. OLEDS are MUCH dimmer than LEDs.
post #122 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwfrederick View Post

what a bunch of bs. i dont think its a coincidence that most of these strange microsoft "fans" are recent members with not too many posts.

You're right! Microsoft must be paying us to come onto AI and defend its player!

Or can you wrap your head around some people who actually are Zune enthusiasts? Yeah, fit that into your iWorld, will ya..

And you're one to talk about high post counts...
post #123 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

Believe whatever tinfoil corporate conspiracy you want, I don't work for Microsoft. Someone posted the link to this discussion on a bunch of Zune forums, which attracted a few of us over here.

But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?
post #124 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Be honest: if the iPod touch revision had included an OLED screen, you'd be hyping that like it's the best thing ever. Same with Tegra and hi-def video out.

I'd buy a touch just to get the App Store, but who cares what people buy? Trashing an unreleased product while preaching to the choir is bad form, methinks.

Seeing that many people here were disappointed when the iPod Touch didn't get OLED, kinda ironic that the technology is now getting bashed.

Anyhow, I agree with the "Trash before the Release" comment. I want to see one in real life before I make any comments negative or positive. Its not like the iPod Touch is that amazing these days anyway... I rarely use mine any more.

And more so... Isn't this site about APPLE products? Not M$ bashing? No, I guess not.
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post #125 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

They're dropping after 2,000.



I've not seen the Zune HD either, but other small displays I've seen looked good, but not up to the quality of an LCD.



Not one of Apple's displays has ever been truly bad, other than for quality of manufacturing issues, which is something else. Not all have been truly great either. But that's not the issue, is it? This is a different issue. It's whether an entirely new type of display is ready for prime time.

Is an OLED display good enough for a music player or phone, but not good enough for a video player? See what I'm saying? If it washes out in bright light, but not sunlight, then that's a problem. Maybe the Zune Hd's display is better than the other small OLEDs I've seen, but maybe not.

The problem with OLED displays is that they've been hyped so much that it's difficult for the average person to know what's true, and what isn't.

For some time, I've been reading that they will be so bright that they will be easily seen outdoors. Well, everyone in the business that I've spoken to thinks that's a crock. Maybe, eventually, they will get to the point of being decent outdoors, but that will take years of efficiency gains. It won't happen next year. OLEDS are MUCH dimmer than LEDs.

The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.

Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
post #126 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

No, you can't assume that. I'm talking about people posting that they were leaving the service, and WHY, and the reason was never "I've had an epiphany and realize that owning is better than renting", it's because "I can't sync the music to my MP3 player" or "The software is slow and crappy", and so on. Almost everyone announcing they were leaving the service was because of implementation issues.

Don't forget these other services didn't have the luxury of supporting their own narrow set of MP3 players like Apple does (which is one reason for their astounding success: a VERY smart move on Apple's part.) They were struggling to be compatible with literally dozens and dozens of players, and they had immense difficulty as a result.

MS borrowed a page from Apple's book, and has limited to supporting their own family of players. But by the time they came along the Apple juggernaut was in full swing, and they've had a hard time getting mindshare, and i think THAT is primarily a failure of marketing.

I'd love to see the exact stats, but I think you'd find Zune users are far more faithful than the users of Napster, Yahoo Music Engine, and Rhapsody (before they got their major implementation issues under control). Everyone I know who've purchased Zunes are still using them and happy with them. Yes I've seen posts occasionally on forums of disgruntled users, but once again the complaint is not "subscription service isn't worth it after all", it's that they're complaining about technical issues that prevent them successfully using it.

That was a good post.

I agree with most of your points. but still, subscription services sprung up before Apple was nearly as big as it is now.

And don't forget that whenever music software or hardware is reviewed, Apple always gets the highest ratings. That shows that it isn't only that they were there first, or ties the music to the players. It also shows that the quality is very high. In fact, now that they don't tie the music to the players, people have the opportunity to leave either in favor of something else, but they don't seem to be doing that.

Apple had just said, and I have no reason to doubt them, that 50% of buyers of Nanos are new to the platform. That shows that a lock isn't real.
post #127 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!

If I don't buy ten songs, do the remainder roll over to the next month? Since I don't believe that is the case, I hate this pressure to buy something when there's nothing worth buying. So yes, I'd turn it down.
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post #128 of 582
There was a lot of good info inthis article from which the wrong conclusion have been drawen.

First; with respect to OLED, this technology is under rapid development you should not assume that the screen will be to dim. This is very much something that you need to check out on a shipping product. Likewise the power used by the panels vary widely. Further the iPhone screen washes out in sunlight just like any other LCD. The LCD in the iPhone does not benefit from front illumination one bit.

As to the GPU we have yet to see the product so again do we really know what is in there. It really isn't worthwhile to even comment on it if you don't have verified info. Just because PortaPlayers GPUs of a few years ago where slow does not imply anything about this one. I mean really NVidia has a lot of IP to throw at the core to enhance performance.

As to all the cores mentioned I really don't know what they are talking about as I don't follow Zune. They could be talking about GPU cores which ought to cause Apple to stand up and take notice. Or maybe dedicated I/O processors to handle audio. This is all guess work here but the point is until you know what they are talking about you can't discount them.

Another thing is the obsession here with battery life. How many people here stay up for 30 hours straight to listen to their mp3 player? Not many I would imagine. A more valid question would be how hard is that battery to service.

It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.

In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.



Dave
post #129 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.

Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.

Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
  • Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
  • Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
  • Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.
post #130 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The problem is that so far, MS has not really shown much of anything here. We have to take it on faith right now.

When you bring in the $150million argument, you have to know the history behind it. A great part of that investment was because Apple found that MS had their Quicktime code in WMP. This was part of the settlement. Otherwise, Apple was going to sue MS, and MS would have had to strip that code out. As that code was the only thing allowing video to be played properly in Windows, they didn't want that, so that gave more than a few things to Apple in exchange. Other concessions were the promise to continue writing Office for the Mac, patent exchanges, etc.

Apple had a lot of money in the bank at that time, and it's not clear how much that investment really mattered, other than for publicity, and the embarrassment of Bill Gates when he had to appear in Macworld by video explaining why they made the investment.

Melgross, thank you for your response. We shall see.

PS: If it was embarrassing for Bill to show his face to the faithful, I imagine it was equally embarrassing for Steve to publicly embrace the booed bedfellow. Steve just better at spinning it (this is not a slight; it is a compliment). Actually, he is a master. Props to him.
post #131 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!

I wouldn't. Nor would I turn down a movie subscription from Apple like Netflix's. Some people like to buy and some like to rent. Everyone has an opinion.
post #132 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeline View Post

Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic.

Ah, found it: Ad hominem.
post #133 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

A few articles and videos showing the same technologies used by Zune HD against the old display technologies of the current iPod Touch:

http://www.pocketables.net/2009/03/a...amsung-p3.html

Not exactly the most sophisticated review, mostly just personal likes and dislikes.

Quote:
Video showing viewing angles between OLED tech against old LCD tech:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/designf...7614734510594/

This is the one advantage an OLED has over LCDs. That's for sure. But how important is that for a phone or player as opposed to a Tv set watched by people around the room?

If I were to rate a player on a 100 point basis, I would give it between 5 and 10 points for that.

Quote:
Photos of the ZuneHD under light here:

I watched that one and one other. It's hard to say how good the images were, but they didn't look terrible either. We really need to see it ourselves.

[quote]
So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9lLl2B0uAE

Same here.

Quote:
Show us a 100% white webpage, ifanbot.

That was uncalled for. Your comments can be considered to be a Zune fanbot, so watch your mouth.

Actually, most web pages are light in overall density, like here, with its mostly light grey. Go and look at all your PC sites and you'll see that they are mostly white.

Quote:
Apple didnt go for OLED because they dont want to pay Samsung / LG to cut a 3.5inch 320*480 display when nobody uses that resolution/screen size for OLED making this process expensive to Cupertino and damage their profits. in short, Apple dont want to pony up the money from their pockets.

Your MSbot tendencies are coming out again. You have no knowledge of anything regarding this, so don't make a fool of yourself by spouting nonsense. If you want to speculate about something real do so, but this is just silly.

Quote:
Windows Mobile and WinCE (zune OS run atop it) have been running under ARM CPU well before Apple came with that stupid mp3 named iPod.

You started this post with some good points, but now you're just being childish.

Quote:
From an owner of Radeon graphics cards, I still remember back in 2000-2002 when Nvidia GPU's were trashing the PowerVR GPUs. Mainly the Kyro graphics cards...hahaha.

And this is relevant because...?

Quote:
Anyway....read this old article about the Tegra APX 2500
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/101/1

You do see that that article says exactly what Prince said about the chip?

Quote:
uh? The Nvidia demo (done back in 2008) is running at:
- WVGA (800x480). higher than iphone. or you gonna lie to us and tell crap that the iphone resolution is better than that ?
- AA and AF. Where is that on the iphone, ifanbot ?


Like how all the ifanbots related websites promoted and overhyped the mythical camera on the iPod Touch, right ?

If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.
post #134 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeline View Post

Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
  • Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
  • Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
  • Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.

Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".

In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.

I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.

Simple isn't is when you take out Person X.
post #135 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

One interesting thing I looked at: The Sony Walkman X is a touch screen OLED player, and the user reviews on Amazon (albeit not many) were very complimentary on the screen quality. 1 of the 15 said it was "ok", and all the rest who commented on it seemed to really like it.

Bottom line is that I'll get to see tomorrow! Keeping my fingers crossed....

On a side note, it's bedtime for me, so thanks very much Mel for a fun distraction to pass some of the night while we discussed subscription services! I hope you get great enjoyment out of whatever music devices and/or sites/services you use in the future!

Best wishes,

Eddie

You too, and come back.
post #136 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwfrederick View Post

what a bunch of bs. i dont think its a coincidence that most of these strange microsoft "fans" are recent members with not too many posts.

I thought he gave a good discussion.
post #137 of 582
What I'd like to know is, why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? AI hasn't even touched a Zune HD yet, and they've already declared it dead.

Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.

Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.
post #138 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.

So now Fan Bot is not allowed when you personally use FanBoy in many forum postings?

Don't make this a room of Double Standards because he/she has some great points.
post #139 of 582
I will be buying a ZuneHD tomorrow just so I won't have an association with a lot of the tards in this thread.
post #140 of 582
Well I call sour grapes. The Zune HD is going to do good business this Christmas whether the Apple fanboys like it or not.

And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.

The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
post #141 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominiej View Post

You're right! Microsoft must be paying us to come onto AI and defend its player!

Or can you wrap your head around some people who actually are Zune enthusiasts? Yeah, fit that into your iWorld, will ya..

And you're one to talk about high post counts...

Believe it or not, we don't mind discussions with people interested in other software or hardware.

But at the same time it must be understood that while a frank discussion is desirable here, there are some who do come on to harass people, and never return.

I'm not happy about one poster in particular who seems to have taken that turn in one post. Not acceptable!

If we get apple users and MS users together on a forum about a device that will have two sides to the like/dislike argument, then facts and logic is best, while avoiding more hysterical comments.

Also, I would expect that non Apple users coming here to "defend" their product would make allowances that this IS an Apple site after all, just as you would expect Apple users to make that allowance when coming to a PC based forum to comment on something.
post #142 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

What I'd like to know is, why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? AI hasn't even touched a Zune HD yet, and they've already declared it dead.

Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.

Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.

Yes I'm wondering about AppleInsider myself. It is very unlike AI to be so biased against anything that not Apple.
It's as almost if they had the Apple cult like fanboys from hell over at MDN write this article.
post #143 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post

But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?

Oh, come on! Anyone who really likes a product or service tries to persuade others to see things their way.

We all do that.
post #144 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Well I call sour grapes. The Zune HD is going to do good business this Christmas whether the Apple fanboys like it or not.

And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.

The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.

What I don't understand is why people whining about no camera on the iPod Touch would flee to another media player that has no camera. The iPod nano update will drive sales, not turn them away.

That said, the ZuneHD will probably become the best selling Zune ever (however significant that is) because it looks to be a good product. At this point it would be very difficult for the Zune to gain significant traction against the iPod though (the iPod is just too entrenched in peoples minds), and you can't take rumour boards as representative of actual consumer demand.
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post #145 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominiej View Post

Yeah, 'cause in that time period, you got to listen to millions of tracks legitimately that you otherwise may not have had a chance to...

And here's another point - of those 120-140 songs - how many would you continue to listen to indefinitely? What's the point of buying music you will not care about in a year or more?

Rhapsody, or Pandora...your pick
post #146 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmamule View Post

Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!

I wouldn't even be listening to them anymore after the word "fifteen" came out of their mouth.
post #147 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.

Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.

Now your post is BS.

Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.

But I have reason for that. I've seen Apple use technology when they thought it was ready. And from what I've seen they're usually right about when it is. Not always, but usually.

MS, on the other hand, makes comments about so many things it sold, and then drops them without another comment. You get the feeling that it's just trying out things to see what will work without any real plan in mind.

I really do believe that if Apple had thought that an OLED would have served their purpose, we would have seen one this year.

Apple has been accused over the years of being too far ahead of the crowd, so when they decide to let others move on a new technology first, I have to wonder why. I can't imagine that they haven't tested many OLEDs over the past few years, and have decided that they weren't yet up to snuff.

So sure, I think that an OLED would be great for a 10" tablet, I did also say that I thought it was expensive, and I didn't think that the cost of the tablet with one would fly right now. But if Apple's huge buying power could be brought to bear, then maybe they could get them at a low enough price. This was assuming that the quality of the display would be good enough.

I was hoping that it would be, but I also mentioned power issues and the like, so I've not been all one sided as you want to believe. I'm sure you can pick out posts that don't say that, as I don't repeat something many times in a discussion, at least not usually.

But that doesn't change things here. There have been several commentators who have wondered if MS used an OLED for "sexy" reasons rather than technical ones.

I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".

At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.
post #148 of 582
Prince's credibility will be on the line here. We'll all see this new OLED screen, with all the comparisons and articles and analysis following.

I'm not a techie here, but I hope this new screen is drop-dead gorgeous. Apple's last iPod touch update was a yawner. Another player or two always helps keep everyone paranoid and aggressive. If we all love high tech, we would champion hearty competition.

I realize the sales figures will not compare, but if this screen is amazing, I'd expect Apple to be taking a good hard look at it and working even harder to add their secret sauces. You know they have their OLED versions in the lab.
post #149 of 582
The information in this article strains credibility at best.

I have several OLED devices around my house and those displays are clearly BRIGHTER than LCDs. I don't know where the author got his information, but it is clearly wrong.
post #150 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by agion1 View Post

Your argument about the Xbox being a success only because of Microsoft's willingness to lose money really has nothing to do with my discussion. So what? It is as if I should argue that Apple would not be as successful as it is now had MS not invest $150 Million in what appeared to be a dying company. After all, what company would do that?

Your English here is, uh ... kind of "difficult" so I'm not sure what you're actually arguing.

But if you're bringing out that old chestnut as to how Microsoft "saved" Apple with that investment or even that they invested in Apple because they thought it was a winning situation and that Apple would bounce back, you are 100% wrong.

The investment and the Office contract were part and parcel of the same deal and the reasons behind it were settling a law suit over Microsoft's theft of Apple's IP (video for windows) and the long standing and famous "look and feel" lawsuit.
post #151 of 582
Five simple reasons why the Zune HD will be a non-event:

1) 3 years too late.

2) iPhone

3) iPod mindshare

4) The move toward device convergence

5) US-only (for an indefinite period of time)

Had the Zune HD been released three years ago it might have actually mattered.
post #152 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

T
It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.

In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.

Dave

Just to talk about software developers. They like to sell product. The reason why the iPhone/Touch has been so successful with developers is because whether because of necessity or design, by the time Apple came out with its apps store and SDK several months before, they had already sold millions of phones and Touches, showing developers that they had a hot product and would be selling a lot of them.

So they had an amazing 553 apps from day one.

But in two years, MS has only managed to sell 2 million Zunes, most of which won't be able to use this software, whatever it turns out to be.

That's a problem when attracting developers. They are going to ask where the market is. What can MS tell them other than to be patient.

So you are developing for a platform that is just starting out, with to all intents, no sales yet. No product in consumers hands. What if they don't like it? Where will sales go? Should you wait until there's a number of these in the field? If so, how many? How long should you give them to get to that number? The longer it takes, the fewer they will sell.

This is a problem. We're seeing it with the Pre. Despite all of those saying that they are so much more developer friendly, they still have only 58 apps (at last look a few days ago) in their store, though they do have a few hundred mostly amateur apps available, most of which aren't very good.

If the HD takes a year to sell another million, will developers care? How many does it have to sell before there are hundreds of developers, thousands?
post #153 of 582
I got an Iphone and the zune hd right here.. to claim that OLED is not a great screen is just a plain lie. I can't even get a good picture of it. Black is 100% black, not grey like on the iphone. The colors are extremely vibrant..

I'll see if I can get a good picture of it with a SLR camera..
post #154 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now your post is BS.

Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.

...

I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".

At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.

I didn't need to look them up I read this site daily.

You're sure that MS's OLED is "good enough" &

"At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that"

You are a Global Moderator for a forum that did "Trash" OLED in the new Zune HD and everything about the Zune.

That doesn't bother you that you disagree with the very article that you are are a Moderator For? Yes, this is an "Apple Forum" but this article is inexcusable for the blatant BS that it is spewing.
post #155 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".

In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.

I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.

Simple isn't is when you take out Person X.

You really are just trying to cause trouble. In order to understand past postings, you have to read the entire thread in which the posts appear. It's easy to select posts that say something that you don't like, and try to present them as something which they may not be. By telling this other poster that you don't care about what they say is just being rude. Anyone can respond to anyone in a thread, that's true here, or just about anywhere else. You don't have to respond back. But if you do, then like it or not, you did care about what they posted.
post #156 of 582
[QUOTE=Ricardo Dawkins;1482170]A few articles and videos showing the same technologies used by Zune HD against the old display technologies of the current iPod Touch:


So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9lLl2B0uAE

I can't believe you sited that video to make your point. I even looked at some of the related videos on the page.
It's all just really embarrassing. Wow.
post #157 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominiej View Post

Did you miss the part about getting to listen to millions of tracks of your choice? Can you do that on iTunes?

Did you miss the part that a decade later the subscription model still has not caught on?! Most people don't want it!
post #158 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.

The bulk of Apple's iPod market doesn't even know what a Zune HD is. And won't care when they're told.

This product is stillborn. US-only (good luck getting developers) and three years too late.
post #159 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Five simple reasons why the Zune HD will be a non-event:

1) 3 years too late.

2) iPhone

3) iPod mindshare

4) The move toward device convergence

5) US-only (for an indefinite period of time)

Had the Zune HD been released three years ago it might have actually mattered.

iPod mindshare? Is that like a vulcan Mind Meld that only Steve Jobs can do? I have an iPhone with 3.1 on it and I've never even heard of it. I Googled it an the most recent article I could find was a year old and it goes all the way back to 2005 from there.

iPod Mindshare. ROMLMAO (My kids tought me that one).
post #160 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So now Fan Bot is not allowed when you personally use FanBoy in many forum postings?

Don't make this a room of Double Standards because he/she has some great points.

Ah, you are just here to troll.

Say something relevant. If you're trying to intimidate me, it won't work.

Most other sites would have had you off already.
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