From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD - Page 5

This doesn't make any sense though.

Other than maybe going a bit far on the criticism of the OLED screen (and we will find out in days if this reviewer did), this is a solid, fact-based review with lots of detailed research that I haven't read anywhere else at all. Yet you are saying this review has "no merit" and waiting for one from Gizmodo? or CNET? You've got to be kidding.

Every article on CNET is just a puff piece about how great technology is in general, and just reads the virtues of each product they "review," right from the copy sent to them by the manufacturer. Gizmodo is just a bunch of kids who wouldn't know research if it hit them in the face and practically live to bash Apple. They also praise anything that falls from Microsoft's fingers and most of the commenters there are young, rabid, anti-Apple types that you can't even have a sensible conversation with.

Sounds to me like you just wanted to like Zune HD so much that the idea that there might be problems with it is putting your nose out of joint.

Personally, from what I've seen of OLED technology I think the reviewer went out on a limb with the heavy handed criticism, but we will see tomorrow won't we? It is true that if anyone can make a crappy OLED screen it's certainly Microsoft. The quality control on every product (software or hardware) they have ever made has always been the worst. However I find the complete lack of apps and games for the thing, and the details of that processor far more worrying.

What more proof of the fact that people are really reviewing the Zune HD on it's "sexy-ness" instead of it's capabilities, than the fact that everyone here is getting all het up about the stupid screen? The other failings and "myths" are far more important, but no one seems to even be arguing about them. People just seem upset that the device they were expecting to see tomorrow is maybe not as sexy looking as they thought.

As most of your regulars RIP APART anything non Apple. I can give names but you already know the Apple Apologists.

No I'm not trying to cause trouble. I'm pointing out that this article should be pulled because it is inaccurate and even the global moderator disagrees with the majority of the article.

Calling BS where it's needed is not causing trouble. Otherwise I'd be a mindless Apple Sheep that buys anything they put out with a piece of fruit on it.

Edit: As I've said I don't have to look up personal preferences on this forum. I read it every day and users Flip Flop on what they like or don't based on what is "rumored" to be coming out (or what Apple didn't come out with and MS did) or what an analyst said that they happen to agee with "Gene Munster" the biggest Apple stock hyper comes to mind.

"aspirin", "tupperware", "kleenex", and "bandaid".

THAT is mind share. THINK about the implications of these brand names in relation to competing products.

Answer: You mean the company that has lost BILLIONS on the Xbox? That has been utterly incapable of competing with ipods? The company that has been completely blown away by the iphone even though they've been in the mobile phone business for a decade?

No, I don't think they're going to sit by, I think they're going to blow BILLIONS more trying to catch up and fail.

I gave up trying to take pictures of the OLED screen compared to the iPhone. It's a no contest. It's like comparing the Pioneer Kuro to my old Vizio LCD.

See it in person, since replicating it on a crappy PC monitor won't do it justice.

It's wierd, when you turn it on, you don't see any changes in the screen (because it's obviously not backlit..)

This is silly.

Competition is good!!

I hope the Zune is amazing since it will force Apple to make some new innovations which I will benefit from. If fact even if the Zune sucks Im going to rave to Apple about how much I love then Zune and when are they going to improve the iPod line.

All of this the Zune sucks is sending a message to Apple, dont bother improving anything since we will buy anything with an Apple logo good or bad. I am concerned about how many people are bashing a product they know NOTHING about, it is sending the WRONG message to Apple. Please stop this.

Wake up!! Tell Apple how much you like the new Zune features.

Man, that was a class lecture. You should be nominated for a Pulitzer Award. It is really nice to read a thorough, knowledgeable report on a product. And this one is FIRST-CLASS report.

Microsoft is MICRO when it comes to anything reliable; you always get less for more money. I saw the first Zune at Costco and I stood there and laughed so hard that some shoppers might have thought I was crazy. Needless to say, Costco removed them within 30days and never display them again. Because nobody was buying, and many who bought were returning in mass.

I don't know any retailer that will carry Zune HD, except of course the coming Microsoft Windows Stores. This is another way for Microsoft shareholders to get shaved of some percentage of their investment value.

Shame of Ballmer and his troop of idiots!

Gazoobee, thank you for responding to my post. Yes, I see that I was not clear in what I wrote. I did not take the time to re-read. I apologize. In any case, I do not wish to divert attention from my main post. I was simply having fun with Melgross by bringing up that "old chestnut," as you call it. I thought his argument regarding the Xbox's success (namely, that it was a success because MS continued to take massive losses for a period of time) was not relevant to my point and I thought I'd use a little humor (very little, I know) to make my point.

Your interpretation of the Apple/Microsoft deal is interested and may have merit. In the name of objectivity though, it would do you well not to pretend that what you are saying is indisputable [cold-hard fact]. It is easy enough to sift through the archives of various tech and news sites and see clearly that other interpretations existed then (and exist now). Objectively, no one can say whether MS "saved" Apple or not.

agion1

Hmm.. Everyone carries the Zune HD. I went around and tried to buy one the 14th. All the Best Buy stores said I coulnd't have one since it wasn't "launched" yet. I went to walmart as a last desperate effort, and after I pointed out the box to the old man in the electronics department he gladedly handed it over to me.

Just waiting for the dang zune store to open up again.. ugh..

Apparently Best Buy will try their hand with the Zune. Again.

I'm finding it difficult to follow your points here. First you accuse me of trashing the HD's screen. I didn't do that, so now you accuse me of not agreeing with the article.

Which is it? Should I parrot the article because I'm a mod, or should I give my own opinions, because I'm also a person?

I'm not a mod for the article. We don't mod articles, the admins do that. We mod the threads that spawn from those articles. We can take part in the thread if we wish.

I just don't like seeing extreme statements.

And sure, some people come on who are trolls, and who are fanboys trying to get a rise out of people here.

If all you do is to look at my posting and make comments about it, you are doing that very thing.

If you really want to stay here, it would be better to just give your own opinions about what the discussion is all about, rather thnt trying to comment on old posts from someone else.

Being a mod doesn't (shouldn't) mean that you agree with everything in an article. We're here to check for spam, and keep things from going too far, which doesn't mean that we shut down lively arguments.

I don't get people like you. What's the point of coming to an Apple info site just to start arguments? Don't you have anything better to do?

well, true or not, i cant think of any other reason, besides being paid, why youd waste your time coming to an apple fansite to argue. i have no desire to visit zune websites and argue with you people. even if this article was complete bs and the zune hd isnt half bad, it still doesnt have a chance, and everyone knows it.

A nine-post wonder playing up MS' latest me-too attempt on an Apple fansite.

He's here to troll. And no, trolls have nothing better to do, sadly.

I didn't say that I disagreed with the majority of the article, just some of it. He's correct about the Tegra, for example. There are articles about that in ArsTechnica and Anandtech, both respected sites with excellent technology writers that say pretty much the same thing.

I don't mind hype. I was in advertising for several years, and much of my business over the years dealt with that. But just as we have to separate out Apple's hype, we have to do it to others as well. I'm sure you agree with that. Certainly you won't argue that MS doesn't engage in hype.

What an astonishing outburst. Well, at least I can see why ad hominem comes so easily to you. Popping you on my ignore list, with thanks for the verification!

That must be some pretty powerful weed! Nothing you say makes sense.

Do you really think Apple cares about what you say? Of course not, they care about the numbers. If they sell a lot of ipods then obviously they're doing something right and they will continue doing it, and they have.

Since when is lying the best way to get things done anyway?!

Guess you fall into the "mindless Apple Sheep" comment above. Keep buying something for its logo and not its features. People on this forum want me to stop buying Apple products.

MelGross,

I'm not trying to be antagonistic but as a moderator you can't pound someone for calling another an ifanbot and then in the very same response call him an msbot. What gives?

Well, in all fairness, Apple do tend to ignore customer requests.

I would have thought that the best way to get Apple to add features to the iPod line would be to vote with your feet and buy a Zune.

Actually Apple doesn't compete against the Zune, or the Sony, or the Samsung, or the Creative (where are they?).

The only company they may compete against is the SanDisk, at least here in the States. But SanDisk doesn't really compete against Apple as they themselves have said. They compete against all the others.

Apple competes with themselves. The come up with new models or revisions of older models to knock the older ones off.

There is nothing MS can do with the Zune that will rile Apple, unless somehow, they manage to finally get some serious sales out of the thing. But that would mean possibly 5 million in the first year of the HD. Then Apple would at least look at it seriously.

But Apple still has the advantage.

What would happen if the OLED is really good. It's possible. Then next year, Apple takes a better OLED and uses it. MS loses that advantage.

What if Apple does get the camera in the Touch? That would be a big advantage.

With the Nano Apple has shown that they finally are willing to put an FM tuner in their stuff. While It's certainly not required for sales, they did it to sell music via iTunes. It also has features that so far, no one else has.

If the Touch can shoot video, will MS feel as though they must add that too?

And other than the OLED screen, what does the HD have that would make people buy it other than a Touch? We can argue subscriptions, but MS has had that, and sales last quarter actually dropped 43%, so that's not it.

I appreciate your response and especially the polite tone, but I don't think it's fair to say the facts are in doubt on this topic. The "MS saved Apple" (with that investment) meme is popular, but it's not factual.

You only have to realise that the 150 million was a tiny drop in the bucket in terms of the money that Apple needed at the time to see how they couldn't have "saved" anything. it's also telling that the commitment to keep producing Office was much more important to Apple's comeback yet the people pushing this myth hardly ever even mention that aspect. It's likely however, that part of the reason for Microsoft's agreement to keep making Office for Mac had more to do with not attracting further lawsuits for anti-competitive behaviour.

The law suits I mentioned were quite real though, and the fact that the original Video for Windows program contained (quite literally) stolen code is well established although Microsoft has long argued it was just a mistake made by the company they hired to produce the product.

In retrospect the deal was really very similar to the way Jobs described it at the time. Kind of a "let's shake hands and move on" sort of thing. But whatever you think of it, the idea that Microsoft "saved" Apple by making that investment really is just a myth.

He was commenting on you saying that you would lie to Apple about the Zune even if you thought it wasn't very good. He does have a point. Think about it. If you thought the Zune wasn't very good, but you told Apple that you thought it was, then what exactly would it be about the Zune that you would want them to emulate? How would that help them to improve their product?

Wouldn't it then be better to tell them what there was about the Zune you thought wasn't very good so that they WOULDN'T emulate it?

I was trying to make a point. Sometimes people don't understand what they've said unless it's thrown back at them. Also I was showing him that by him saying that to someone here, over and again in one post, he was showing us that he was what he was calling that other person, who, if you had read his post, was not taking an extreme position, and didn't deserve being called that.

Does that clear it up?

I'd rather do that, and hope for some understanding, than edit posts from the very beginning of someone's tenure here, even though I get the feeling that he, along with some others here tonight, won't be staying.

HD Radio is great, but IP Radio is the real future...

We STILL need an iPhone/Mac Mini car computer type device from Apple -- dash integrated...

Also, a product with multiple models for sale is also at a disadvantage. If we are counting iPod Touch sales to Zune sales then we need to add up all of them. Since the Zune loses to multiple Touchs its clear its selling as well.

On that note, Mac notebooks can often do look to do well in sales rankings on Amazon since Apple has a lot less choices as a vendor than say Dell, HP or Acer.

I don't think i've ever downloaded an ipod touch app that was actually worth the time. I would say that out of those 70,000 there may be 20 apps worth looking at. Most of them just tools that you don't use most of the time. All of the games are basically the same cheap pieces of garbage.

Yes. That's it exactly. I think the Zune Pass is great!

Gazoobee, it is late and I cannot go into details but to say that I do not think that those who argue that MS "saved" Apple think it was due to a simple $150 million investment (at least those with any knowledge of the situation). Those who understand the agreement and the financial situation of Apple at the time would point to the investment, shareholder confidence (and the impact such an investment would have), the MS/Apple Office agreement (and the confidence it inspired since it was a long-term agreement), and a host of other things to support their claims.

Personally, I do not care. My own view is that such language ("saved") is used to draw out emotion and is not helpful. As I said before, it cannot be proved one way or the other. I originally mentioned the investment in fun, to make a point. That is all.

Okay, it is late. Take care.

agion1

Wow. Zunetards are funny when they get riled up. Obliged to fan out on the web and do the monkey dance on their master's behalf.

I agree with both of you. Its been a commercial failure but for the select few that absolutely love it, I am glad they have the option.

"You would say"? Based on what? Your careful analysis of 70,000 aps?

Here's the thing: those 20 useful apps are going to be different for every user. The fact that there are so many just means that it's more likely that I'll find the app that works for me, for what I want to do. Surprisingly, I don't assume that because some app isn't appealing to me it must not be appealing to anyone and is therefore useless.

Steve Jobs is not going to approve crap or something that may be a problem hence must be a reason for no camera on iPod Touch. Apple has work for me and everybody who still buying and supporting their products unlike Microsoft with Xbox 360 by itself I really don't care if its $299 I rather buy a 160GB AppleTV for $229.

Dude. You've latched onto some kind of grudge/fixation about who said what about the merits of OLED as if it were a towering moral lapse, and you are beating that horse past death into a thin red paste. It's just not..... very important.

I just love these GIFs.

Looks more like a deer or llama to me.

Ok what is this. The site is APPLEinsider, it is a site for apple fans to come to and get further edified on the products (past/current/and future) that apple releases. Right now, most sites are posting tons of articles about the awesomeness of Tegra, the pure hotness of OLED and how sweet and sexy all this streaming and eventual connection with the 360 will be. Its cool, I read all these sites and I post questions asking for clarification on modern microsoft features since I've sorta fallen behind since I switched a few years back. I don't just jump on these sites and brag about how awesome my iPhones and iPod touch are (which I actually own and use everyday).

So then I'm kinda curious, why wouldn't Apple with its $1,000,000,000 of liquid cash (that number is pretty astounding written out isn't it), and its huge market grossing billions in apps decide to skip all these features. I mean, I've been told by MS fanboys for years that Apple is just a premium computer company who charges me tons of money for advanced hardware I don't need. Now all of a sudden, MS is the premium company? Something doesn't fit.

So then AI releases this article discussing some of these supposed "totally awesome, blow your socks off" features and tries to put it all in some perspective. Sure, the article is biased, DUH, do we need to mention the URL again? Prince points out some of the possible downsides to the technology and explains why Apple has so far passed on this technology. Obviously, the proof is in the pudding, and we wont know which device is better until... MS actually releases their product. However, its nice to hear the other side of the story.

Why on earth is this grounds for you to come to our house and bitch and moan about unfairly we're treating your future product? Where on earth do you get off trying to tell us that the iPod Touch isn't even a game console. I own a Wii, a PS3 (I traded in my 360 for it, because, what a surprise, it broke), a DS lite and an iPhone (2 actually, and I gave my parents my free iPod Touch), and guess what... I haven't turned on my wii or ps3 for 2 months, I haven't touched my DS lite in the 15 months owned the iPhone, and I game on my iPhone easily 2-5 hours a day. Is this true for everyone, certainly not, I just happen to like strategy games and such that work exceedingly well with the iPhone interface and I'm not really into FPSs which the PS3 handles so elegantly. Sure, basketball season will roll around and I'll boot back up my PS3 and love me some NBA 2k10, and I'll rock my RPGs when its cold out and I can't enjoy the outdoors, but don't tell me I'm not gaming on a console. Hell my parents have never played any games on any system, and suddenly my dad plays a couple hours of word games a day on his iPod Touch and my mum can't put down her iPhone.

So, basically, yes, we have actual devices in our hands that we use daily and are very, very, very pleased with (99% satisfaction rating for the iPhone 3gs according to the latest polls). Meanwhile, you have a device which isn't out yet and your talking about how much it clearly trounces on mine. Please, grow up, buy your Zune HD, and let the numbers play out.

I'm so tired of MS telling me what's going to be awesome (longhorn, vista, windows 7, xbox live, original zune, ie6, ie7, ie8.... need I continue) only to be severely dissapointed at every turn. All of these feelings are opinions, and obviously many, many people love xbox live (as an example, its a good service I just don't like little kids yellings things at me that they have no concept of what they mean), but why do you trolls feel it necessary to stuff your opinions down my throat on a site devoted to my products? If you were actually confident that the Zune HD would be so badass, you wouldn't need to say shit, because guess what, I year from now all I'd see would be the countless Zunes infiltrating my life, forcing me to recognize its superiority. The truth is, I can't got anywhere and not see an iPhone or a touch, and I've known 3 people with a Zune.

GO AWAY!!!

I'm actually somewhat optimistic that the Zune HD will be a very nice little unit, and might have some decent apps and games.The screen looks great in the shots and videos I've seen, though of course I'm not going to draw any conclusions either way until real reviews come out and I see it live.

I say 'optimistic' not because I am a MS fan, but because a little competition will be good for us consumers. I was disappointed in the last iPod rollout.

As someone who has actually SEEN and USED the latest generation of OLED screens, I'd love it if my iPhone had an OLED screen. The difference in image quality is remarkable. Absolutely stunning. I couldn't believe what a massive step up OLED is from LCD until I saw one for myself.

The screen life argument is pure FUD. Your battery has a far lower life expectancy.

As someone pointed out earlier, Daniel aka Prince doesn't care about the truth or about giving insight into an issue. All he cares about is trying to make Apple look like geniuses and Microsoft look like idiots. If the iPhone had an OLED screen, he would be writing an article on 'the Myths of OLED', declaring how great they are in direct sunlight. Who here thinks that Daniel has even seen the ZuneHD's display for himself?

it's updated hourly, can change anytime. besides, it iss human controlled and not based on real sells. using that as statistics on both side is a failure.