From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD - Page 6

I dont see anything that would make this Zune a "must have" product in the way Apple can. Apple even came into what was considered a tough market with the iPhone and they made it the overnight gold standard. I can say that the Zune since their v2.0 OS has been quite good (especially for MS) but I see nothing compelling for the average consumer to buy a Zune or to switch to the Zune from an iPod. MS is more likely to pull consumers from the other non-iPod PMP vendors, but that market, especially for the larger devices, is already quite small.



Ive read that OLED doesnt need to have the same resolution as LCD to appear clearer and crisper. I cant attest for that being a fact but from what Ive seen in images OLED that is stated to be fairly low res looked very good.

The article wasn't a review and made no claims to be. The article was a criticism through deconstruction of certain marketing claims surrounding the Zune HD. Don't they teach anything in school these days?

Also, the expected comments the piece has generated are highly entertaining.

Before I get bashed by everyone for this being my first post, let me first disclose that I have owned several iPods (haven't gone down the Touch road... yet). But as a consumer who tries to be as unbiased as possible, I'm appalled by some of the things said in this forum. Just because this is Apple Insider DOES NOT MEAN it has to be "Let's Hate on Everything Not From Cupertino." That does not establish credibility!

It really is important NOT to bash the Zune, but to give it everything it is due - why? Because any competition that forces Apple to add features or lower prices is GOOD FOR US! So at a point, we have to take a stand against ignorance and fanboyism in favor of competition.

Prince's article was bad enough, and to make such false statements WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE SOURCE would not pass even the loosest journalistic standards. To believe such baseless claims is even worse! Let's see what kind of BS Prince fed us:

- OLED isn't the next ubiquitous screen technology? REALLY? The blue luminescence issues are a thing of the past. As for the "suspiciously dark room," have you seen it in bright light, or are you just making an unfounded assumption?
- Tegra is a descendent of Apple tech and some guy says it isn't that great? You posted a video of the thing kicking ass! The videos you haven't posted are even more impressive.
- "HD Radio" doesn't mean anything? WHO CARES? It's higher quality radio - you sound like a whiner!
- The IE-based mobile browser doesn't work? GOOGLE IT - while it may be crap on Windows Mobile, the Zune's browser has given a good impression to CNET, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc. This just really shows you haven't done any research.

The comments have been even worse, particularly from "Andrew Levi Black." Where do I even start with his "corrections?"


- no Genius Mixes: Smart DJ and MixView are similar enough
- no Podcast downloads: is this a joke? Zune has had this for years
- crappy web browser: as mentioned above, not the same as Windows Mobile IE6
- $15-20 third-party radio option: HD radio? And paying more for extra bulk isn't ideal
- "installed base of nothing": you don't sound ridiculous at all

SERIOUSLY GUYS, we will never benefit unless the Zune becomes a viable threat. Loyalty is a great thing... unless it clouds your judgment.

Note that its updated hourly, but that is not to say that the stats used are only from the past hour. It could still be a running total of sales for that calendar day, the past 24 hours, the past 90s days, all total unit sales, or some other metric they choose to use.

How is competition good when your up against a company funding its money losing products with its monopoly?

How is competition good when said company eventually catches up with its money losing product by wearing down the competition. The competition that has to produce products that actually sell in order to justify its existence?

Company A makes a product that loses millions every year, that product is terminated.
Company B that has a monopoly makes a product that loses millions or billions every year to bully its way into market..... get the picture?

Ah, I was just going to post that.

Actual detail still requires the pixels, and the Zune has less. 480 x 272 vs 480 x 320. That's a lot. And while the Zune screen simulates HD video better, without giving top and bottom banding, for everything else, it's simply smaller. In vertical mode, that means substantially less text. For SD video, it means a much smaller picture with even lower resolution.

While the OLED may be very good, you're getting much less information on that screen. Web pages will be smaller etc.

But not everything in the article is wrong, just some things, and a bit of exaggeration to make a point.

MS is hyping the Tegra, when it isn't what they say it is. You can look it up for yourself. Someone already posted it. Other sites have done articles giving the specs. 8 cores? MS must be kidding. Nvidia's own specs show that it has one core running at 750 MHz.

HD radio is NOT a higher quality radio. It's just a digital radio. Most stations broadcast using 90Kb/s. That less than the standard 128Kb/s of MP3's. Some go as high as 120Kb/s. Others go as low as 64Kb/s. Does it sound so thrilling now? Sure the browser does work. I doubt he meant that it actually didn't work, what would be the point of including a browser that didn't work? But it's based on IE6 from what I remember, and that's not good. Maybe it is snappier, but it doesn't render well.

When a company hypes its product, it's fair to dissemble it with your own hype.

After all, both sides can exaggerate to make their points.

And yet AI posts this lame article slamming the Zune HD. It's pathetic. I mean, really, how many people on this forum were even vaguely considering the Zune HD? Two, three, maybe. Why the need to write a 3-page article for all the fanboys?

Oh right, its another Princess article. All he's good as is slamming Microsoft. Apple can do no wrong in his fanboy eyes. Lame. Lame. Lame.

Not true!
The 3rd generation iPod touch has a more powerful CPU and GPU.
It has the same CPU and GPU as the iPhone 3GS

iPod touch delivers a better web browsing experience (WebKit vs IE6)

I think the Zune would be a lot better if it was based on Linux...

I would buy a zune in a heartbeat if Microsoft roll out the mythical live anywhere service.

But, in all the fanboy crap in here no one pointed out the zunes biggest flaw compared to the iPod touch....... No mac support.

The iPod range works with macs and windows. Surely it's about time Microsoft created a new zune portal using silverlight (which supports the DRM used in the zune marketplace) so that it it can run on Macs.

As to all the crap surrounding OLED, the manufacturers have already increased the lifespan of the displays and by this time next year it is expected that OLED will be on it's way to replacing LCD in handheld devices. That said OLED suffers badly when used outside in sunlight but this should be overcome in future with the use of better screen coatings and brighter display panels.

I want to break my Macbook and burn my iPhone after reading this article. Its reasons why I'm sometimes ashamed to use Apple products and be in any form associated with Apple fanbois.

This article is complete lies. This just proves how scared you really are of the Zune.

First Internet Explorer 6 Mobile is not the same as Internet Explorer 6. You have no idea what IE6 Mobile is based on and in fact CNET reviewed it quite well.

Second if Windows CE is so horrible and everyone hates it... why is it used everywhere. Why did Apple choose Windows CE over developing in house (until now) or using Linux or Palm for their solutions. They had a much more cozy relationship with Palm (until now).

Tegra will be tested in time, but I know with the older Zunes the WiFi is on consistently and as such you would assume it would be on in the Video test which show longer battery. I'm sure actually that OLED also helps to get to the standard. But I see that you are the idiots the support LCD over Plasma which I use because in my house I can see a clear difference watching a black and white movie on Plasma against LCDs. When did we decide that ONE lightbulb was good enough. Tube TVs would light each pixel, Plasma & OLED do the same. Its reality. In real life you don't have a giant lightbult filtering thru everything. Even if OLED isn't perfect (and people going to BestBuy and CNET confirm otherwise) its still a step in the right direction of technological evolution and Apple WILL evolve to OLED and you will look like the idiots that you are in your OLED accusations.

Regarding HD Content... It will play HD Content on the device in the NATIVE widescreen aspect. Unlike the iPhone or iPod Touch that is not native 16:9 widescreen. That maybe more suited to a phone, but for portal movies I don't want black bars or distortion of the movie. In addition the Zune HD will play 720p content on the device, so I don't need to transcode just sync and play. In addition HD Radio is not a brand decision of Microsoft or Zune and its amazing that you deride radio so much when even Apple has eventually added FM radio and MARK MY WORDS that the iPod Touch will have FM Radio eventually.

All in all I welcome the competition and the Zune HD does so much right. All this proves is you are scared and the Zune HD will sell very well. If you thought Microsoft would keep the '1 %' of the market, you would not have wasted your time making up lies.

Oh... I just thought I add that the Zune HD is confirmed to get:

Project Gotham Racing : Ferrari Edition

No.... Microsoft isn't gonna bring its Xbox expertise at all... Its obvious why Apple was pushing on gaming so much... they know what is coming.

As a Project Gotham Fan on the Xbox 360, I am getting the Zune HD. Project Gotham is made for Microsoft Game Studios.

And I know some of you will claim i'm just a troll, but I'd be more than happy to take a snap of my Alu 2.0 Macbook and iPhone 2G.

And just one more time... this Windows CE you hate so much is also the basis for the Xbox 360. And while the Xbox 360 may have hardware issues, its software had worked extremely well.

I know you're in the US, but Spotify can.

So? The Zune is ONLY sold in the US. iPods are sold everywhere. Ever thought about that?

Sony does as well. http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+...ient=firefox-a

Last time I checked, Spotify was worth $242 million.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/07...-e170-million/

Now, quoting T3, 2% of 2 million U.K. Spotify users pay. There are 4.5 million European Spotify users. Let's say 2% of European users pay too. That's 899100 pounds per month, or US$1.48million PER MONTH. If that's not successful, I don't know what is. Yes Apple makes a lot more, but calling subscriptions as "unsuccessful" is unfair.

T3 article: http://www.t3.com/news/spotify-has-o...ccounts?=40701

round and round we go again...

Its like over-proud parents trying to argue their child is better - whilst they sit neglected in another room.

what is funny tho is all the M$ supporters feeling the urge to open accounts just to pi$$ on 'apple-people'


lets all get back to living our lives shall we?

Well done Prince McLean well done.

LanPhantom

Can I see evidence of this? The retail price will cover the manufacturing costs - surely? Any movie/TV content they shift on iTunes is a bonus. Sales were up last year.

I don't expect them to be making a packet, but I'm sceptical they're losing money.

Just as I doubt they are losing money on the MacBook Air.



And right now there are zero apps available for Zune HD. Think how many will have to be made before even one good one appears (by your reckoning)

Man, I didn't realise that OLED screens sucked so much!

Just as well I read this article, I was going to buy a Macbook Pro for the OLED screen, now I think I'll just buy a Dell for half the price. Phew, that was a close one.

OLEDs indeed have problems in Sunlight. Mostly in older OLEDs, the new ones should be better... Not sure how the ZUNE HD will be...

I have to disagree with this totally. Developers where presuring Apple for a real SDK before the first Touches even where of the boat. Developers saw this brilliant platform and instantly want on board.

Similar to Apple all MS needs to do is to debut a product that grabs developer attention. If the SDK is truely innovative and provides for a good user experience developers will be on board with the first device.

Actually they will do what most business do. That is evaluate the opportunity and determine if it is worth the gamble. In a nut shell every new app is a gamble even on iPhone/Touch.

I think it is more of a case of developers recognizing Pre as a piece of junk with a crap development platform.

It doesn't have to sell any. This is an important reality, developers will flock to a platform that inspires them. For confirmation look at all of the Linux platforms that hardly sell at all but yet have developers.



Dave

Hey OP, thanks for letting me ghostwrite that article for you. Consumers need to see the Zune HD for what it really is, with a well-referenced article that is entirely grounded in truths.

Steve Jobs

A moving target. I checked Amazon bestsellers and found yes, Zunes looking a bit healthier than a while back (one at position 3, another at 8, but 20 of the top 25 MP3 players are iPods.

If Amazon's rankings are anything to go by, Apple is winning by a huge margin.

LOL. You say this as if Apple marketing wrote this article. You seem confused.

... to the Zune release. Since the iPod is more mature, updates are seemingly more incremental (resulting in disappointment i.e. last week). It's kinda to Apple's detriment, as they do have the iconic design and features that people love about iPods, yet it seems they can't push the envelope too much. Mindshare is important but what's to stop "iPod" from becoming the future "walkman"?

This new Zune is impressive and it will be interesting to see how Microsoft manages to integrate it across their platforms. They still have plenty of work to do, and to be honest I don't get why they just don't ditch Windows Mobile in favour of some Zune-esque software (for consumers).

Apple doesn't have much to worry about though - limited availability internationally, only one model make it pretty niche. In addition Apple have the upper hand, they're practically dictating the direction of the market.

Ehm really do your homework again.
They have LED-backlit LCD screens, HUGE difference.

Anyway I am pro OLED, in the best form possible, so fingers crossed here for the future!
I think it's a great technology with great potential.

For HD (1080P) movie playback I connect my Computer (Macbook) to my 42" Full HD Television, with a DVI->HDMI cable for video and (fiber) Optic Digital cable for audio.
I personally wouldn't use a mobile device for it on my television.
For me it would be strainge to put a HD movie from my computer on a Mobile device to play that on my Full HD TV. A MacBook is easily connected to a Full HD TV so why the extra step of putting it on a mobile device next? Movie playback on a Mobile device is great, but we all know that it will not show us HD video on screen. So for my personal use HD playback on a Mobile device has no value.

Haha! Man, this is hilarious and sad at the same time.


Prince is known for his bias. I love him because he doesn't hide it behind a wall of "fair and balanced" bullshit like most "pundits" do. He just vents the way he feels, and we are aware of it, and able to put the grain of salts on the things he says.

Mind, though, his vents about MS products have been spot on for almost a decade now. He might get wrong yet, but I still have to see it happening.


"no idea"? LOL. IE is bad. Real bad. Only some fans still endure it, but the whole of the internet community people that has a clue installs other browsers, such as firefox, safari, chrome, etc. IE mobile is also laughable, and years behind webkit. MS could bite their pride and enter the webkit bandwagon but they would know the laughter they would get from Apple keynotes if they did it. So they stick to their lower proprietary technologies.


Wtf are you babbling about? Just because something is horrible doesn't mean there are alternatives. MS took care of "alternatives" in the most atrocious way possible, destroying competition not due to their inherent quality but due to monopolistic advantages. Apple only entered the market when they thought they could make a good case.


It would be great if true. But considering the sneer tactics of MS, I don't trust it very much. I think they can only get those numbers with their screens on blackish. I've yet to see their performance tested by blogs and tech sites. Prince makes a good point on OLEDs, and puts an example. Let's see how it fares.


I hope so too, I wonder though if it is yet ready to market with good quality.


Uncalled for.


Sure, but one thing is to venture into a new tech like OLED, with all the risks and cons involved, another one completely different is to market it as if it is already completely superior to the older tech. Marketing is marketing, but we should be aware of the cons and risks, no?


That's the part of the article that gives MS the edge. But I wonder if it has any real application. Perhaps going to other people's homes and viewing movies with them via Zune? Doesn't seem like a killer app to me. But if it pleases you, go for it.


HD Radio is not FM Radio. Read the article better to get a clue on what the issues involving HD are. If the Zune is to reach my shores, it will have to dump "HD". So, it might be a nice marginal feature in the US, but meaningless in the rest of the world.


Prince's specialty is to take the pundits' hype about MS products and tear them apart. This happened before and he was proven right then. It was so with Windows Vista, it was so with the original Zune (which was going to be THE iPod Killer, it's amazing how people forget these things), it was so with big ass table, etc., etc.

A big difference between Apple and MS has been that the former bets on promising little and over-delivering, creating huge hype at its own keynotes, while MS over promises and disappoints in the deliverance. The point in doing this is to devaluate any competing product with the "promise" that MS will just "step in" and blow that market up. Actually, MS excells at this, its vaporware tactics are unmatched in the PC industry history.

It may prove different with the Zune, I don't know. But I wouldn't bet that way.

You're completely missing the point. This article "research" is being based on evidence that is non-existent, meaning the Zune reviews have yet to be posted and users are JUST NOW getting their hands on the devices.

Wait for the reviews to come out, see how the performance stacks up, see how the screen performs in daylight/indoors, see how the UI operates, etc.

You don't just do an article with no hands-on time with a product tearing it apart saying that it will have poor performance and a poor screen if you haven't even laid hands/eyes on it yet.

Didn't know that Macbooks had OLED screens, Apple's main page talks about Backlit LEDs. Perhaps Dell's main competence is to reach illiterate and confused custumers?

Someone said: "Further, the Zune HD will be more customizable than any iPod - making it have the ability to reflect the owner, than just be another player with a fruit on the back."

Yes, the iPod has a fruit in back of it.

The Zune has a fruit in front of it.

Sorry but that is not comparable at all. You say, developers will flock. But where should they flock now? Towards a device that has a shaky history of let-downs, or towards a device that has more than 30 million users worldwide, with a frenzy of apps being downloaded, almost 2 billion now? Face it, if there's gonna be an app for a mobile device, it's going to go iPhone first. THEN, it may go to the Zune. Maybe. Perhaps.

I mean, this has been MS point against the Mac for decades now. And now that such point goes back with a vengeance, somehow it's an invalid point? Laughable. One of the main attractions with the iPod is precisely the app market, with their low price points. It's gonna take a good while until the Zune can market good games under 5 bucks.

Fear, are U nuts. Microsoft has never made a product that anyone actually wanted unless they were still under their spell of lies. Most people get burned and don't care to jump back into the fire when they realize what happened. I just Checked Amazon and The Zune HD 32 is at #10 The Ipod Touch 32 is at #3 while the 16 gig is at #7.

It takes less power to do poor resolution on 18% fewer pixels. The HD in this HD player only works when in a dock. Guess what, docks supply power. If they allowed it to work out of the dock it would have about 20 minutes of play time.

10 times worse, you are reaching. The purpose for having video on the nano is to have the ability to get a quick video. The quality is better than most phones so if you are out and about and have your music with you can quickly catch some video. And since it has up to 16 gigs, far more than you could on a phone.

Dear Daniel:

Please quit posting troll bait You are causing the fanboys, Microsoft & Apple, to foam at the mouth.

On the other hand I have never seen so many "Join Date: Sep 2009" accounts in a single thread before.

Oh Boo Hoo. Do you know how that pales in comparison to the name calling of people on here as trolls.
Even Mel does it. Shame on him!

Black bars or distortion, have you ever seen a movie on a iPod Touch or iPhone? It's crisp and clear. When you don't like the black bars, double tap on the movie playing and it wil zoom in so that the black bars disappear, image will not be distorted.
It will take in a lot of space when you don't transcode HD Video...so Sync and play? I don't think so...not when you also have a large library of music, foto's and applications on it and your limit is 32GB.

I doubt it's any more so than Apple's "i" everything camel case naming scheme.

Next, someone will be saying that MBP isn't a legitimate name shortening scheme because it's not Apple's official name for it. I really don't see the problem with name shortening, seeing the name long hand all the time gets old. iPod Touch doesn't have a good abbreviation, I think iTouch is good enough.

How is it more expensive? I have been using napster to go for a few years now and have over 3000 tracks in my library. If I were using that horrible program itunes that would cost me more than $3000.

I don't understand why Apple has so many fanboys for their inferior overpriced products and their lame software Itunes. I mean the program runs like crap on PC and it can't do basic things like monitor a folder for new music. Just the other day they were charging $400 for an itouch lol. Another thing Ipods have limited music format support and they do not include an FM tuner. They don't support other music formats like all the other players like wma, wmv and the sound quality is below average. Yet they have all these fanboys.

If it wasn't for some clever marketing that brainwashed the masses into thinking mp3 player meant ipod and the only way to get music was itunes I don't know where Apple would be today.

The Zune seems like a really good MP3 player if you ask me. HD tuner is really good but the fact that it operates like a gimped ipod troubles me. I like the freedom of connecting my mp3 player to any pc and drag or delete tracks from it without the need of software.