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What's this guy's sickness?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I recognize the need for defense attorneys to occasionally defend guilty clients, and even to defend those guilty of nasty crimes. But what is the problem with a guy who specializes in defending the indefensible?

<a href="http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20011215/877925.html" target="_blank">Dershowitz article</a>

I think it's a special kind of mental illness to want to go through life boldly proclaiming the innocence of the very worst of humanity. It's not like this guy JUST does his best to defend his clients -- he's constantly making public statements like this one, going out of his way to defend bad guys based on legal minutiae.

To me there is a line between a defense attorney doing his best to get his client acquitted, and a guy with a persistent need to make statements outside the courtroom, outside the structure of a trial, in strenuous defense of the lowest of the low.
post #2 of 21
So if bin Laden says, "I did it. My idea. Better than I thought it would be." Dershowitz would call him a liar.
post #3 of 21
Guys like Douche-o-witz, F. Lee Bailbond and Johnny Cockroach are the reason we have books filled with nothing but "dead lawyer jokes".

My feeling is, if your main goal as a lawyer is to get another notch on your belt (that is, freeing the guilty or convicting the innocent , regardless of whether or not you believe it to be the correct result based on evidence), you should be air-dropped into the middle of the Everglades with chunks of rare meat taped to your body.

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #4 of 21
Beyond reasonable doubt... isn't the American legal system based around that or some such thing; not absolute proof, which is essentially impossible to attain (and what Dershowitz seems to base his defense against)?

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Mac The Fork ]</p>
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post #5 of 21
Dershowitz is a moron who thrives on controversy. He'd defend the Jews against Jesus if he thought it would get him on TV.
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post #6 of 21
An interesting quote I found:

Any profession that suffers from so foul a reputation must, in some way, provoke it. - Alan Dershowitz
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post #7 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Dershowitz is a moron who thrives on controversy. He'd defend the Jews against Jesus if he thought it would get him on TV.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And he'd win, considering the Romans killed him................
post #8 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>

And he'd win, considering the Romans killed him................</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually the Romans left it up to the Jews to deal with him. The Jews said he's a criminal and should be dealt with, so the Roman's crucified him, at the Jews request.
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post #9 of 21
How many people are in asylums that claim to be the messiah...lots.

How many, get huge followers: lots

imagine in a religious country like Pakistan if someone went around claiming to be the son of Allah: the Pakistanis would string him up: same thing happened to some guy 2000 years ago, only the people weren't Muslim's they were Jews. Probably happened more than a few times too.
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post #10 of 21
[quote]imagine in a religious country like Pakistan if someone went around claiming to be the son of Allah: the Pakistanis would string him up: same thing happened to some guy 2000 years ago, only the people weren't Muslim's they were Jews. Probably
happened more than a few times too.<hr></blockquote>

Imagine similar here in the US...if the bonafide genuine reincarnated Jesus Christ (if there could ever be such an entity) was walking about here in the USA teaching 'real' Christianity to hordes of adoring followers, all hell would break loose: he would no doubt be banned from every church for heresy/blasphemy/whatever (and violation of dress code no doubt), investigated and surveilled by every intelligence department in the land, branded in the media as a danger to society etc, probably get accused of witchcraft and black magic, and if he were a foreign national, probably get hauled in front of military tribunal and crucif...oops, wrong millennium.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #11 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

Imagine similar here in the US...if the bonafide genuine reincarnated Jesus Christ (if there could ever be such an entity) was walking about here in the USA teaching 'real' Christianity to hordes of adoring followers, all hell would break loose: he would no doubt be banned from every church for heresy/blasphemy/whatever (and violation of dress code no doubt), investigated and surveilled by every intelligence department in the land, branded in the media as a danger to society etc, probably get accused of witchcraft and black magic, and if he were a foreign national, probably get hauled in front of military tribunal and crucif...oops, wrong millennium.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea that's exactly what would happen.
post #12 of 21
SamJo:

What did Jesus do the first time around that would land him in an American prison?
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post #13 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

he would no doubt be banned from every church for heresy/blasphemy/whatever (and violation of dress code no doubt), investigated and surveilled by every intelligence department in the land, branded in the media as a danger to society etc, probably get accused of witchcraft and black magic, and if he were a foreign national, probably get hauled in front of military tribunal and crucif...oops, wrong millennium.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unless you believe the New Testament portion of the bible, then there would be no doubt that he was Jesus Christ as he split Mount Olive, was visible to everyone everywhere and came back "as he left" (guessing this means from the sky). Besides the fact that the Anti-Christ would already be ruling and people would be waiting for the Messiah to return.
Besides, who says he wouldn't dress in our 21st century garbs? Hell, sandals are still in style anyway, aren't they?

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post #14 of 21
From Groverat:

[quote]What did Jesus do the first time around that would land him in an American prison?<hr></blockquote>

Just off the top of my head...all kinds of juicy stuff!

The modern equivalent of his antics in the temple in Jerusalem could bring about charges of anything from criminal damage all the way to terrorism perhaps?

Some scholars recognize that Jesus was a highly political figure, and attribute his arrest and subsequent death sentence to leading/being involved with political insurrectionism. I don't think that would go down all that well here in America right now: Treason charges on that one maybe?

The gathering of 5000 spontaneously ecstatic people doesnt go down all that great with law enforcement anywhere, as many 'ravers' would testify). Maybe unlawful assembly charges are possible? Even inciting riots?

Miracles and healing...wow...the FDA would go absolutely bananas.. practising medicine without a license? Possible fraud charges too.

And to be closely associated with a known street hooker...may even prompt an investigation by the local vice squad? Pimping? (Not to mention the months of endless squalid muckraking by People Magazine, National Inquirer etc?). Just imagine all that pious tut-tut-tutting when any celebrity/ public figure gets caught up in a sex scandal?

Jesus today? He would be dragged thru the coals by everyone!

Ouch! :eek:
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post #15 of 21
[quote]The modern equivalent of his antics in the temple in Jerusalem could bring about charges of anything from criminal damage all the way to terrorism perhaps?<hr></blockquote>

Terrorism?
If a member of a church walked into one of his own temples and began wrecking blasphemous things I doubt he'd be tried as a terrorist. He might get a vandalism rap, at absolute worst.

[quote]Some scholars recognize that Jesus was a highly political figure, and attribute his arrest and subsequent death sentence to leading/being involved with political insurrectionism. I don't think that would go down all that well here in America right now: Treason charges on that one maybe?<hr></blockquote>

Insurrectionism... hmmm

We have tens of thousands of "highly political" figures today eager for their chance to get pushed around by the man.

[quote]The gathering of 5000 spontaneously ecstatic people doesnt go down all that great with law enforcement anywhere, as many 'ravers' would testify). Maybe unlawful assembly charges are possible? Even inciting riots?<hr></blockquote>

Is this a reference to the Sermon on the Mount? Arguably the most peaceful of gatherings ever, is that what you're referring to?

Are we living in the same United States? You're aware that peaceable assembly is a constitutionally guaranteed right, are you not?

[quote]Miracles and healing...wow...the FDA would go absolutely bananas.. practising medicine without a license? Possible fraud charges too.<hr></blockquote>

I guess like Christian Scientists are dragged off to jails en masse, eh?



[quote]And to be closely associated with a known street hooker...may even prompt an investigation by the local vice squad?<hr></blockquote>

Like the thousands of Christan proseltyzers who do the exact same things? All dragged off by our tyrannical .gov?

I appreciate your attempt at being clever and humorous, but it's rather pathetic.
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post #16 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:

Just off the top of my head...all kinds of juicy stuff!

The modern equivalent of his antics in the temple in Jerusalem could bring about charges of anything from criminal damage all the way to terrorism perhaps?

Some scholars recognize that Jesus was a highly political figure, and attribute his arrest and subsequent death sentence to leading/being involved with political insurrectionism. I don't think that would go down all that well here in America right now: Treason charges on that one maybe?

The gathering of 5000 spontaneously ecstatic people doesnt go down all that great with law enforcement anywhere, as many 'ravers' would testify). Maybe unlawful assembly charges are possible? Even inciting riots?

Miracles and healing...wow...the FDA would go absolutely bananas.. practising medicine without a license? Possible fraud charges too.

And to be closely associated with a known street hooker...may even prompt an investigation by the local vice squad? Pimping? (Not to mention the months of endless squalid muckraking by People Magazine, National Inquirer etc?). Just imagine all that pious tut-tut-tutting when any celebrity/ public figure gets caught up in a sex scandal?

Jesus today? He would be dragged thru the coals by everyone!

Ouch! :eek: [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Do you actually beleive any of what you just said?!? if so then maybe this: :eek: applies to you.

Hypothetically though, if Jesus had not come yet and he was to come today, he would not come to the US as he first came for the Jews, then for the Gentiles. He would come to Israel. As for the rest of your speculation, wrong. Insurrection? Terrorism? Practicing medicine without a license (that one was particualrly ludicrous)? He was brought up on charges before two roman leaders of the day and they both let him go as they could find NO FAULT with him. Does not sound like he was doing anything wrong to me. The only reason he was put to death was the Jewsih leaders feared for the safety of Israel from the Romans and also feared for their power base and so pressured the Romans to crucify him anyway regardless of fault. And if you want to get right down to it, it was what he came to earth to do. Live a blameless life so that he could be the perfect sacrifice so that we did not have to.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #17 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Dershowitz is a moron who thrives on controversy. He'd defend the Jews against Jesus if he thought it would get him on TV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In France we have this kind of avocate too is name Jacques Verges, defensor of Klaus Barbie (SS chief of the Gestapo of Lions during WW2) and Carlos (a famous terrorist) and many other guys of this kind of stuff. His goal difficult to say with that's kind of enigmatic people " provocation, pleasure to defend what can not be defended : who knows ?"
post #18 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>
In France we have this kind of avocate too is name Jacques Verges, defensor of Klaus Barbie (SS chief of the Gestapo of Lions during WW2) and Carlos (a famous terrorist) and many other guys of this kind of stuff. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Carlos the Jackel?
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post #19 of 21
[quote]Do you actually beleive any of what you just said?!? if so then maybe this: applies to you.<hr></blockquote>

Can't anyone allow me a little bit of levity round here?
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post #20 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

Can't anyone allow me a little bit of levity round here? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Levity, yes. But this did not come off as levity. Sorry if that was your intent, it failed. I did laugh at some of it, but overall the post was quite sour. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #21 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

Carlos the Jackel?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i dont know if we speak of the same, but Carlos was a very bad terrorist implicate in many death in europe and France, and has been cought by french Secret Services after many years of hunting all around the world.
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