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Apple, Microsoft trade places selling iPod touch and Zune HD - Page 2

post #41 of 84
IMO it's not a fair fight. MS makes the crappy Zune while Apple makes the 78.3% of the MP3 market and Zune comes in at 1.1%. That's one person out of ten buys a POS Zune. I mean come on MS as always didn't think the product through enough to make it even a contender. To sum it up, my nephew bought one of the first generation Zune's and he hared it, the navigation is what you would expect from MS, unintuitive , scatterbrained and just plain confusing. But thats what MS puts out. In it's 1% market share MP3 player and it's virus ridden, spyware touched, unintuitive operating system. Watch how Apple takes back it's number one standing in computer sales and market share. I give it less than 5 years and Apple will hold around 80% and the last few idiots who use MS products will do so out of just plain ignorance that there is anything better, stable, virus free and just plain workable and intuitive.

Zune will never go beyond 2 percent. It will waiver between 1 and 2 percent. I wouldn't be surprised if they, (MS) started giving them away free so they can say they have a bigger part of the pie.
post #42 of 84
Microsoft's Zune blows mainly because it is too little to late. It offers nothing more then a me too approach. With that said, I do not get the video camera on the Nano. Many gyms do not like that because they are worried people will record naked people in the lockers. Further, the quality of the video is subpar. The pedometer is useful though because many people use the iPod in the gym.

I do think the iPod Touch needs the same camera as the iPhone [as opposed to the one in the Nano]. First, I know many people who were waiting for the camera to buy the device. Second, besides the phone, the iPhone and Touch should share the same features. It makes it more alluring to software developers, and consumers expect it. My personal feeling is that Apple came to realize this and decided not to release the Touch with the Nano camera. It will wait until after the Holidays and give us the real deal.

Further, you wouldn't know it by reading the press, but Apple's update to the Touch was significant in terms of performance. If an incremental upgrade to a computer same the same performance upgrade we'd be blown away. It is just that most people expected a camera and were disappointed.


It is funny that all the reasons that people use to justify Windows PCs over a Mac, including Microsoft, now apply to the iPods. Namely there is many more applications and third party accessories. Even if the Microsoft Zune was marginally better [which it is not], it wouldn't justify giving up the huge software an accessory choices available to iPod users.
post #43 of 84
How about, "People started telling us people started viewing the Touch as portable computing platform upon which they also wanted a camera."

My view is Apple pulled the camera at the last minute because it's wasn't happy with the camera it chose. To spin things, Apple is pointing out the positives: the Touch received a hugh performance update, which is suitable for better games. It isn't like Apple is going to kill sales by saying, "Hey, we are going to include a camera in the future."

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

BTW- when the Touch does get its camera- what will the new reason be for it's inclusion into a gaming device?
post #44 of 84
Not one of the best, It was rated number ONE> no one else has what Apple has to offer. And the user experience is the best. MS is about money making, Apple is about, and has always been about making computers that are immune to viruses and spyware and also to making computers, MP3 players and phone that are years ahead of anything on the market. A small example is visual voicemail. Before the iPhone no one offered it, now even my crappy enV3 has it for a 6 dollar a month charge. And it has to log into it so it's not just there iike the iPhone. ( I owned and used the iPhones first gen.) But I couldn't really afford it when I lost my job so I just got a simple 50 dollar phone, the enV3.
Apple simply makes Microsoft look like a company that copies everything they do. And the problem is they always put that, "It doesn't work right!" spin on in. MS just doesn't understand the computer user. or defineatly the MP3 user. MS=Garbage.
post #45 of 84
It seems pretty obvious to me that while what Steve said is probably true, it was intended to do what he's always doing: distracting from what Apple is still working on by playing up what's happening now. Thus it's both spin, as teckstud said, and likely the truth. (Edit: TBell beat me to that punch and said it better.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple's inclusion of the "Top Grossing" apps is very, very interesting, isn't it? They are basically trying to encourage people to raise the prices on their apps using peer pressure. Quite ingenious really. It's kind of like what has happened with movies... everyone is concerned about the gross, less concerned if it's worth watching.

On the other hand, some have regarded the App Store as having too much downward pressure on prices. Nice for end-users, but unless a developer sells a ton of copies of their 99¢ app, they probably won't see anything resembling a decent profit. There are probably a fair few genuinely good apps that languish at the bottom of the store while other apps of comparable or even lesser quality eat their lunch. A lot like the music store, actually.

@Dean812: Not to take MS' side, but I'm afraid you're a wee bit delusional about Apple's future. Especially when you say "5 years".
post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9 View Post

The video is really pretty good. You should go and take a look.

Most people will use this for UTube and similar functions. It's better than needed for that.

If you want really good video, go and buy a real video camera, with a good zoom lens and the fixings.

Otherwise, this is a super product, and is a game changer.

Tim, as usual, is spot on.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352765,00.asp

Your buddy tim is almost a good writer
almost he gets it
he states it but falls far short of what this vnano will really mean world wide.
the nano is way more of a game changer than the weak examples he gives

when the nano hits 70 million in sales we will have a army of wild crazy nanites >>
shooting quick vid
syncing quick vid
uploading and spreading in minutes world wide almost any fantastic situations we have in the past missed
How many elected official will the vnano bag ??
How many topless shots of movie starlets will we ogle ?
How many crimes or revolutions will we broadcast to us at a near live time space giving the ease of use that APPLE affords us all
on and on >> no one will be safe
no one can hide
if you think that the London camera system is out of sorts
just wait yrs. for the nanite's take over
and we can also inform >> like having flash mobs contests to see how many un filled pot holes are out there or how many cops are snoozing on the job . holes in nyc

timmy is way too timid for the coming nanite nano world

the last poets said the revolution will not be televised >> yes it won't
it will be filmed .

9
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beatles
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whats in a name ? 
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post #47 of 84
"Microsoft is finding itself in the role of the underdog platform, resorting to the same strategies Apple used to promote the Mac under the umbrella of ubiquitous Windows PCs"

If you're prepared to ignore marketshare by ignorance MS always was the underdog.

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

...... But it just can't match fully blown titles like God Of War, Burnout... and it can't match numerous hardware controls. It. Just. Can't.

Is it possible that you can stop being a tech/forum/gamer nerd... for just a second?

The iPod touch plays games.
There are thousands of games on the App Store.
Apple knows exactly how many games have been downloaded.
They also have a good idea of the demographics of their users.

So. Whatever else the iPod touch can do... it's also a gaming device. Whatever else people choose to do with the iPod Touch... it's still a gaming device.

You sound just like all the "gamers" who put down the Wii. A games console that outsells all of the "real" games consoles.

Quote:
If users see iPod/iPhone as gaming device, that just means Apple users are desperate for native gaming on Apple products (and option to get rid of Windows for good), but there is still too much to be desired on that front.

Now you are just being ridiculous. Most iPod/iPhone owners use... PCs!

I really wonder why you are still here.
post #49 of 84
From the article: "Microsoft has similarly shifted attention away from its own core competency in developing software platforms."

I seriously question the assertion that Microsoft has competency in developing software platforms. That's what they do, yes, but that doesn't mean they're good at it.
post #50 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

Is the iPod Touch being subsidized by the ridiculously high prices for a computer with an Apple on it?

No. Apple has higher margins on the iPod touch than on their computers.
post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Your buddy tim is almost a good writer
almost he gets it
he states it but falls far short of what this vnano will really mean world wide.
the nano is way more of a game changer than the weak examples he gives

when the nano hits 70 million in sales we will have a army of wild crazy nanites >>
shooting quick vid
syncing quick vid
uploading and spreading in minutes world wide almost any fantastic situations we have in the past missed
How many elected official will the vnano bag ??
How many topless shots of movie starlets will we ogle ?
How many crimes or revolutions will we broadcast to us at a near live time space giving the ease of use that APPLE affords us all
on and on >> no one will be safe
no one can hide
if you think that the London camera system is out of sorts
just wait yrs. for the nanite's take over
and we can also inform >> like having flash mobs contests to see how many un filled pot holes are out there or how many cops are snoozing on the job . holes in nyc

timmy is way too timid for the coming nanite nano world

the last poets said the revolution will not be televised >> yes it won't
it will be filmed .

9

That was actually my post you quoted.
post #52 of 84
I just thought I would post the current available free apps and games for the Zune HD:

MSN Weather
Calculator

Chess
Goo Splat
Hexic
Shell Game of the Future
Space Battle 2
Sudoku
Texas Hold Em

Promised is Facebook, Twitter, and Project Gotham Racing (An Xbox Title).

Its been selling quite well, being #2 and #4 on Amazon (32GB and 16GB). http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...ef=pd_ts_e_nav

Also reports from Best Buy and Walmart show it selling well and a few Best Buys being sold out.

I would also like to state that this article was atleast interesting and factualy based unlike the lies posted yesterday. Even this article admits that the Zune HD does have better battery despite having a smaller batter than the iPod Touch. Either this is the OLED or the Tegra you lied about yesterday. Also I love that it weighs less... I hope all electronics continue to weigh less and less.

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post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

There are probably a fair few genuinely good apps that languish at the bottom of the store...

In my experiences I noticed that if the app is good they will make money. Quality apps/games seem to sell.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #54 of 84
What is Zune by the way?

Microsoft is good at making bits and pieces and sadly calls it a total solution and more importantly there are morons who thinks it is true.

Apple has been marketing solutions with an ecosystem which guarantees a overall pleasant experience - not just isolated products and bitter taste.
post #55 of 84
Also looks at this video review from CNET:

http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/...orsPicksArea.0

Look at the comparison shots of the Zune HD to the iPod Touch... clearly OLED Screen is so much better. The blacks are grey on the iPod Touch but pure blacks on the Zune HD. Makes me drool.

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post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

In my experiences I noticed that if the app is good they will make money. Quality apps/games seem to sell.

For the most part, certainly. But I'm sure there are at least a few out there whose developers just didn't know how to publicize their apps, and thus had them overlooked. Just a shame is all.
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Your buddy tim is almost a good writer
almost he gets it
he states it but falls far short of what this vnano will really mean world wide.
the nano is way more of a game changer than the weak examples he gives

when the nano hits 70 million in sales we will have a army of wild crazy nanites >>
shooting quick vid
syncing quick vid
uploading and spreading in minutes world wide almost any fantastic situations we have in the past missed
How many elected official will the vnano bag ??
How many topless shots of movie starlets will we ogle ?
How many crimes or revolutions will we broadcast to us at a near live time space giving the ease of use that APPLE affords us all
on and on >> no one will be safe
no one can hide
if you think that the London camera system is out of sorts
just wait yrs. for the nanite's take over
and we can also inform >> like having flash mobs contests to see how many un filled pot holes are out there or how many cops are snoozing on the job . holes in nyc

timmy is way too timid for the coming nanite nano world

the last poets said the revolution will not be televised >> yes it won't
it will be filmed .

9

Come down yet (yes, this is tongue-in-cheek)? None of this is possible within minutes because to upload content generated on nano, it needs to be synched with itunes. Unless you're packing your lappy everywhere you go there's going to be nothing 'near live time' about it.
post #58 of 84
Here's an early review of the new Zune 4.0 software:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1D8oIC2gfg

post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How the video quality compare to an iPhone's? I would never expect to compare it to a Canon's.

I think your missing the point. If it can make an £1800 Semi Professional Camcorder like an XM1 redundant for creating video for the likes of YouTube and general web streaming then it can't be all that bad can it?

Low definition is where its at right now so Apple's cam in the Nano is more than capable of doing the job and doesn't produce the "poor video quality" as you put it. It's horses for courses.

Comparing an iPhone's video cababilities against the Nano's is just nit picking and pointless.
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post #60 of 84
I love the constant bashing the the ifans give off here.

Face it, the Zune has better hardware than the ipod touch, even with its new 3GS innards.

As a "gaming platform" its pathetic at best, and thats being incredibly modest. There are no high caliber developers actually DEVELOPING for the platform. When i see games like Crisis Core, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, and Dragon Quest on the platform then it'll get a nod as being a good gaming platform. As it stands, its no different than all the other phones that run java games, just cause they can doesnt mean their good, and doesnt mean their a gaming device. Sorry thats the truth no matter how you slice it.

Sadly, the iphone/touch platform will never ascend into true gaming goodness. IT JUST ISNT POSSIBLE. 1 input method -touchscreen- (no matter how you slice it) can not make up for buttons. Even if you have the on screen buttons...you get a direction pad/4 buttons? Congrats you just hit gameboy era. No bumper buttons or anything means the games cannot go into extreme depth. Maybe you could get a RPG, but any fighting game or something that commands many button presses is out the window instantly.

Lets face the facts, these minigames they offer are there to kill time. They arent engrossing and they dont compete with other platforms (with that said, the Zune HD wont either as a gaming device, even with its beefier hardware).

I used to own a 2g touch and the real draw for me was the fact i could surf the net and get emails practically anywhere, since school and home and work all had wifi. I eventually got tired of being tethered and ended up getting a Blackberry. The browsing on the touch is awesome, but emails were supbar and the games were hilariously terrible. I grew tired of holding onto two devices, one just to surf the internet essentially. Still i wont deny that if i didnt want a "huge phone bill" id be going for a Zune or Touch again.
post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

For the most part, certainly. But I'm sure there are at least a few out there whose developers just didn't know how to publicize their apps, and thus had them overlooked. Just a shame is all.

They get publicized by selling. Simple as.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

I love the constant bashing the the ifans give off here.

Face it, the Zune has better hardware than the ipod touch, even with its new 3GS innards.

As a "gaming platform" its pathetic at best, and thats being incredibly modest. There are no high caliber developers actually DEVELOPING for the platform. When i see games like Crisis Core, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, and Dragon Quest on the platform then it'll get a nod as being a good gaming platform. As it stands, its no different than all the other phones that run java games, just cause they can doesnt mean their good, and doesnt mean their a gaming device. Sorry thats the truth no matter how you slice it.

Sadly, the iphone/touch platform will never ascend into true gaming goodness. IT JUST ISNT POSSIBLE. 1 input method -touchscreen- (no matter how you slice it) can not make up for buttons. Even if you have the on screen buttons...you get a direction pad/4 buttons? Congrats you just hit gameboy era. No bumper buttons or anything means the games cannot go into extreme depth. Maybe you could get a RPG, but any fighting game or something that commands many button presses is out the window instantly.

Lets face the facts, these minigames they offer are there to kill time. They arent engrossing and they dont compete with other platforms (with that said, the Zune HD wont either as a gaming device, even with its beefier hardware).

I used to own a 2g touch and the real draw for me was the fact i could surf the net and get emails practically anywhere, since school and home and work all had wifi. I eventually got tired of being tethered and ended up getting a Blackberry. The browsing on the touch is awesome, but emails were supbar and the games were hilariously terrible. I grew tired of holding onto two devices, one just to surf the internet essentially. Still i wont deny that if i didnt want a "huge phone bill" id be going for a Zune or Touch again.

Fair point. But what you have to remember is it's not Apple that refer to the iPhone or Touch as a gaming platform. That title's been given by press and users alike. Steve Jobs has now come out and acknowledged this.

So....i'd bet my next 50p that Apple will see this as an opportunity to bring something to the market that will get the respect of hard core gamers like yourself. Tablet perhaps??
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

I love the constant bashing the the ifans give off here.

Face it, the Zune has better hardware than the ipod touch, even with its new 3GS innards.

As a "gaming platform" its pathetic at best, and thats being incredibly modest. There are no high caliber developers actually DEVELOPING for the platform. When i see games like Crisis Core, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, and Dragon Quest on the platform then it'll get a nod as being a good gaming platform. As it stands, its no different than all the other phones that run java games, just cause they can doesnt mean their good, and doesnt mean their a gaming device. Sorry thats the truth no matter how you slice it.

Sadly, the iphone/touch platform will never ascend into true gaming goodness. IT JUST ISNT POSSIBLE. 1 input method -touchscreen- (no matter how you slice it) can not make up for buttons. Even if you have the on screen buttons...you get a direction pad/4 buttons? Congrats you just hit gameboy era. No bumper buttons or anything means the games cannot go into extreme depth. Maybe you could get a RPG, but any fighting game or something that commands many button presses is out the window instantly.

Lets face the facts, these minigames they offer are there to kill time. They arent engrossing and they dont compete with other platforms (with that said, the Zune HD wont either as a gaming device, even with its beefier hardware).

I used to own a 2g touch and the real draw for me was the fact i could surf the net and get emails practically anywhere, since school and home and work all had wifi. I eventually got tired of being tethered and ended up getting a Blackberry. The browsing on the touch is awesome, but emails were supbar and the games were hilariously terrible. I grew tired of holding onto two devices, one just to surf the internet essentially. Still i wont deny that if i didnt want a "huge phone bill" id be going for a Zune or Touch again.

You waste all your time making that post, and you just show that you don't knowanything.

I suppose coming here and knocking Prince, who did make some mistakes in his article, and posting something that is totally wrong seems like a good idea to all the Windows fans who are now popping up here for their two seconds of self satisfied glory.

It won't help the likely failure of the Zune to gather too many sales.

Let's see if they can get sales back to their once upon 3.4% marketshare high from its current 1.1% If they can triple sales to that dismal number, they will claim victory.

Let's also see if they can close in to SanDisk, though they've given up on all their other models as hopeless.
post #64 of 84
The question is how much money has Microsoft lost trying to follow Apple's lead.
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You waste all your time making that post, and you just show that you don't knowanything.

I suppose coming here and knocking Prince, who did make some mistakes in his article, and posting something that is totally wrong seems like a good idea to all the Windows fans who are now popping up here for their two seconds of self satisfied glory.

It won't help the likely failure of the Zune to gather too many sales.

Let's see if they can get sales back to their once upon 3.4% marketshare high from its current 1.1% If they can triple sales to that dismal number, they will claim victory.

Let's also see if they can close in to SanDisk, though they've given up on all their other models as hopeless.

Really, care to point out any errors in my logic? You think for some reason the touch rivals PSP or DS (ill be even kind enough to go regular GB) that would show just how much YOU dont know anything, other than being a biased fanboy with no objectivity.

Sorry these MS boys keep blasting your stupidity into oblivion, i dont blindly follow any company with loyalty...not sure why you do either but thats cool.

Lets see, i didnt really want to address the flame-bait remark you made about marketshare (you'd know all about that being on the bottom of the PC food chain)
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

Fair point. But what you have to remember is it's not Apple that refer to the iPhone or Touch as a gaming platform. That title's been given by press and users alike. Steve Jobs has now come out and acknowledged this.

So....i'd bet my next 50p that Apple will see this as an opportunity to bring something to the market that will get the respect of hard core gamers like yourself. Tablet perhaps??

I'm not sure to be honest. I really dont know of any person who uses an iphone/touch as a serious gaming device. Dont get me wrong i have about 20-30 friends who have an iphone and its loaded up with the same apps...weatherbug, taptap and some random games. Only one of my friends who is a pretty serious gamer like myself had Sonic and FF:Crystal Defenders. Those were two games i was mildly impressed by. Crystal defenders is strategy but incredibly simplistic and repetitive in nature. Even he says it sucks as a true gaming device.

Most of the people who claim it as a "gaming device" dont really game much if at all.

If apple were to make a serious stake at true mobile gaming, and i think its feasible they could, just not with the iphone without physical buttons. they would have a lot of work cut out for them agaisnt the monster powerhouse like Sony and Nintendo...the king of portable games atm.

Also the tablet seems to follow the same premise of the iphone with touchscreen input, it wouldn't be successful either unless there are bluetooth add ons for controllers...but then, if it cost 399 at a subsidy to 700 bucks....id rather just get a PS3 or 360 at that price range (but then it comes down to mobility and content if id drop that kind of money)
post #67 of 84
A one post wonder turns into a two post wonder.

The attitude of the avid gaming crowd has always interested me. Not only do they tend to believe that the computer industry revolves around them, at least some also now believe that their preferences should drive the handheld market. No handheld device that isn't built to serve their preferences should be taken seriously, and apparently neither should the people who play games they don't happen to like.

I'd happily ignore this strange attitude if I hadn't encountered it so often. Maybe it comes from having your head in the non-real world so much of the time.
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post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

A one post wonder turns into a two post wonder.

The attitude of the avid gaming crowd has always interested me. Not only do they tend to believe that the computer industry revolves around them, at least some also now believe that their preferences should drive the handheld market. No handheld device that isn't built to serve their preferences should be taken seriously, and apparently neither should the people who play games they don't happen to like.

I'd happily ignore this strange attitude if I hadn't encountered it so often. Maybe it comes from having your head in the non-real world so much of the time.

Because the avid crowd sets the tone for what most consumers really want. Dolby Digital? Yeah, HD output? Yeah got that too. Look at the 360 and PS3 and how they pretty run break neck trying to one up each other.

The Wii on the other hand took a different approach by not catering to the hardcore/traditional gamer, which does not have ONE method of input.. Consequently it appealed to a lot...yet numbers show most people barely touch their Wii or play it significantly less than those of PS3/360 users.

The App Store has nothing depth wise that can match up with other platforms offerings in solely games. I always figured kool-aid drinkers were all about quality, so where is it in these games based against other offerings?

Oh, how can you try and blast someone for playing games when your on the internet posting about computers and PMPs....yeah guess you roll with the cool crowd in school
post #69 of 84
I'm not blasting anyone for playing games. I'm sure I've been gaming a lot longer than you. And I'm certainly not concerned about what crowd I "roll with" -- I'd suggest that maybe you shouldn't be either. Instead, you might want to spend some time considering why people play games. If you did, it might occur to you that it's about entertainment, and also that what people find to be entertaining doesn't have to be the same as what you find to be entertaining for it to be valid.
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post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Really, care to point out any errors in my logic? You think for some reason the touch rivals PSP or DS (ill be even kind enough to go regular GB) that would show just how much YOU dont know anything, other than being a biased fanboy with no objectivity.

Sorry these MS boys keep blasting your stupidity into oblivion, i dont blindly follow any company with loyalty...not sure why you do either but thats cool.

Lets see, i didnt really want to address the flame-bait remark you made about marketshare (you'd know all about that being on the bottom of the PC food chain)

Your first major error is stating so blindly that the Zune has better hardware. Care to show that's true? The Tegra, while pretty good doesn't show anything that's better than what's in the 3GS or new Touch, possibly, it's even a bit worse. Sure, I see some non technical type reviewers gushing over the Tegra, but they don't show much knowledge about it either.

Also those of you who are so into the DS and PSP fail to understand that a successful game machine doesn't need to have the games YOU like, but rather, the game that the other 80% of the population who play games likes. The number of games sold on the Apple platform shows that, yes, in the 18 months or so that OS 2 had enabled programs, games are very popular on the platform. It also takes time to come up with a program after an SDK is available, so bigger games didn't start coming out until some time after. If you look around, you WILL see some pretty good "gamers" games, with plenty more coming, but I expect that you will try very hard to denigrate them as that moves against your opinion on those games.

I don't believe that anyone would say that the platform is, right now, able to challenge the DS for leadership, though challenging the PSP is already happening. But in a couple of years, when the sales can reach 60 million units a year, and higher after that, then yes. After all, even Nintendo has only predicted that its DS sales will at best, equal last years sales with an estimate of 30 million sales.

Another mistake you make is to believe that almost all the games on the DS and PSP are heavy duty games, when they aren't. Most games for the DS in fact are for younger kids. I know, my kid has been using the Nintendo portable players since the first came out, and also has most other gaming platforms. She's now 18, and finds the DS to be less interesting than before, as do her friends.

So who are we talking about here as what you would like to call "gamers"? Is it that fairly small crowd, who like RPG games so much, or FPS games? Or is it the vast majority, as shown by studies who prefer, and play, more casual games.

They are ALL gamers as they play games, and that's all that matters.

As far as the controls on the Apple devices, yes, they sure are different. And for those who are used to more physical controls, they can be disappointing. At first my daughter didn't like them at all. now, she's much more used to them and is beginning to find them to be fine, not perfect. But then, she also admits that for a number of things, they are better. Depends on the game, and how it;s written.

It's like the virtual keyboard. Those who are familiar with the old little bubble keys don't like it, certainly at first. But those who have never used them, do like the virtual keyboards, often a lot. So what you are used to also matters. As more people get used to the virtual controls, they will like them as well, and we may still get add on controls. One is out, and two more may be here for the holiday season.

Also, having your gaming platform be in the same case as your phone, iPod etc is an advantage. Even the DS was forced to add Music playback.

So I think what you've said is wrong. I really don't think you've thought it out. I think that you're being defensive towards your favorite gaming platforms, and also possibly, antagonistic towards Apple's.
post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Because the avid crowd sets the tone for what most consumers really want. Dolby Digital? Yeah, HD output? Yeah got that too. Look at the 360 and PS3 and how they pretty run break neck trying to one up each other.

Do what now? "Gamers" taught "consumers" to want Dolby Digital and HD output? You know, because there's this thing called "movies" that......... never mind.

Quote:
The Wii on the other hand took a different approach by not catering to the hardcore/traditional gamer, which does not have ONE method of input.. Consequently it appealed to a lot...yet numbers show most people barely touch their Wii or play it significantly less than those of PS3/360 users.

I would be interested in seeing the "numbers" that show Wii owners "barely touch" their devices. After that, I'd be interested in hearing what that has to do with the topic at hand.

Quote:
The App Store has nothing depth wise that can match up with other platforms offerings in solely games. I always figured kool-aid drinkers were all about quality, so where is it in these games based against other offerings?

What does this even mean, in that lots and lots of people like to play lots and lots of games on the iPhone/Touch? That lots and lots of people are wrong? Foolish? Any discussion of "gaming" that starts with some arbitrary definition of what comprises "real" gaming and proceeds to simply dismiss out of hand whatever number of people seem to be enjoying "fake" gaming is just tautological wanking, IMO. Worse, it's a particular species of smug, clueless, tech nerd wanking that grates on the nerves. You might as well declare that every MP3 player on earth is not, in fact, a "music" device because compressed audio is vastly inferior to high bit-rate CD formats played back on high end home systems and "real" music enthusiasts all agree this is so.

Quote:
Oh, how can you try and blast someone for playing games when your on the internet posting about computers and PMPs....yeah guess you roll with the cool crowd in school

Ah, gamers, with your winning adolescent dickishness.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Really, care to point out any errors in my logic? You think for some reason the touch rivals PSP or DS (ill be even kind enough to go regular GB) that would show just how much YOU dont know anything, other than being a biased fanboy with no objectivity.

Sorry these MS boys keep blasting your stupidity into oblivion, i dont blindly follow any company with loyalty...not sure why you do either but thats cool.

Lets see, i didnt really want to address the flame-bait remark you made about marketshare (you'd know all about that being on the bottom of the PC food chain)

You really are desperate.
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

In my experiences I noticed that if the app is good they will make money. Quality apps/games seem to sell.

Yes, as long as people are exposed to a good app, it will sell. The inclusion of the new "Genius App" tab in the iPhone OS is a huge help. I've been downloading apps I hadn't seen before like crazy. Many of the recommendations are right on.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You waste all your time making that post, and you just show that you don't knowanything.

I suppose coming here and knocking Prince, who did make some mistakes in his article, and posting something that is totally wrong seems like a good idea to all the Windows fans who are now popping up here for their two seconds of self satisfied glory.

It won't help the likely failure of the Zune to gather too many sales.

Let's see if they can get sales back to their once upon 3.4% marketshare high from its current 1.1% If they can triple sales to that dismal number, they will claim victory.

Let's also see if they can close in to SanDisk, though they've given up on all their other models as hopeless.

I think they may be disgruntled daytraders trying to trash talk AAPL into giving up some of the past week's gains... which has gotten insanely hot all of a sudden. Good grief, I almost fell over after I saw today's levels.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, as long as people are exposed to a good app, it will sell. The inclusion of the new "Genius App" tab in the iPhone OS is a huge help. I've been downloading apps I hadn't seen before like crazy. Many of the recommendations are right on.

That's good. but honestly, I was hoping for something even easier, and better.

Books, for example. Apple can afford to hire one or two people to organize the book section. I liked the categories on the left side. It made it easy to get to one.

But once you got there it was a problem.

So what I wanted to see was the bookstore, for example, because that's what it is, arranged like a real bookstore. Use standard categories. The truth is that often we don't know what we might want until we see it.

Does everyone always go into a bookstore just for a particular book, or do other people than myself go in and wander around for up to a hour? If they had "science Fiction" it would be easy for me to find something. If that was arranged alphabetically, like a real bookstore, instead of newest first, that would actually make sense. They could also have a sub category, or more. New today. New this week. New this month. Discounted books etc.

They break music down pretty finely, they could do it with everything else.

The Genius works in a limited way, and not always well. None of these methods do when you want one thing to get.
post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I think they may be disgruntled daytraders trying to trash talk AAPL into giving up some of the past week's gains... which has gotten insanely hot all of a sudden. Good grief, I almost fell over after I saw today's levels.

It feels like a Mac owner in the '90's. Whenever I was with a few people, and we were talking about computers, and they would ask what everyone had, when it came to me, and I said a Mac, they would deride me and the Mac. You could tell they were trying to get a rise out of me by doing that. That's why some Mac owners respond so viciously to perceived attacks to the platform. They remember those days of being constantly attacked by PC owners. I still have the scars.

Now, at least in phones and players, it's on the other foot, so to speak, and when their platform is attacked, they respond like a few Mac owners have done. tit for tat, I guess, without their realizing it.

I also guess they get tired of reading everywhere, including in the supposedly PC publications, about how much better the Mac OS is, and how good their computers are. How their marketshare is rising etc.

And I have to admit that sometimes Prince's articles aren't as well researched as those in ARsTechnica and Anandtech. They're mostly correct, but he gives them just enough of a wedge that they can attack the whole thing just by association.

I don't think it's day traders per se.
post #77 of 84
While OS news is anything BUT a PC oriented site, this is still the kind of article I'm talking about. It must hurt PC people to read this.

http://www.osnews.com/story/22178/Ha...t_With_Mobile_
post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

when it came to me, and I said a Mac, they would deride me and the Mac. You could tell they were trying to get a rise out of me by doing that..

Ah the memories.

Although things have changed. Now i get "Oh you use a Mac, i'd love one of those but i can't afford one".
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Your buddy tim is almost a good writer
almost he gets it
he states it but falls far short of what this vnano will really mean world wide.
the nano is way more of a game changer than the weak examples he gives

when the nano hits 70 million in sales we will have a army of wild crazy nanites >>
shooting quick vid
syncing quick vid
uploading and spreading in minutes world wide almost any fantastic situations we have in the past missed
How many elected official will the vnano bag ??
How many topless shots of movie starlets will we ogle ?
How many crimes or revolutions will we broadcast to us at a near live time space giving the ease of use that APPLE affords us all
on and on >> no one will be safe
no one can hide
if you think that the London camera system is out of sorts
just wait yrs. for the nanite's take over
and we can also inform >> like having flash mobs contests to see how many un filled pot holes are out there or how many cops are snoozing on the job . holes in nyc

timmy is way too timid for the coming nanite nano world

the last poets said the revolution will not be televised >> yes it won't
it will be filmed .

9

And more, this one from today's NY Times.... ...how many athletes and other celebs will be harrassed....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/sp...html?th&emc=th

PS: bonus points for mentioning "the Last Poets" - I have their original LP....

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's good. but honestly, I was hoping for something even easier, and better.

Books, for example. Apple can afford to hire one or two people to organize the book section. I liked the categories on the left side. It made it easy to get to one.

But once you got there it was a problem.

So what I wanted to see was the bookstore, for example, because that's what it is, arranged like a real bookstore. Use standard categories. The truth is that often we don't know what we might want until we see it.

Does everyone always go into a bookstore just for a particular book, or do other people than myself go in and wander around for up to a hour? If they had "science Fiction" it would be easy for me to find something. If that was arranged alphabetically, like a real bookstore, instead of newest first, that would actually make sense. They could also have a sub category, or more. New today. New this week. New this month. Discounted books etc.

They break music down pretty finely, they could do it with everything else.

The Genius works in a limited way, and not always well. None of these methods do when you want one thing to get.

You may be interested to see this from Google. It's a start in the right direction. Very much like a newsstand.

http://fastflip.googlelabs.com/

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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