or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Abu-Jamal: off death row
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Abu-Jamal: off death row

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/12/18/jamal.death.penalty/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/12/18/jamal.death.penalty/index.html</a>

I can't believe this judge. The guy never denied it and his brother never testefied on his behalf. I guess in America you can get away with murder, right OJ?
post #2 of 50
Jamal is an honorary citizen of France.
post #3 of 50
Thread Starter 
That explains a lot.
post #4 of 50
About France you mean.
post #5 of 50
outsider, are you familiar with this case at all?
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #6 of 50
Yea. Jamal killed a cop. He's guilty. Needs a needle in him arm. Case Closed.
post #7 of 50
Thread Starter 
New, I already know what you're going to say so just spit it out. I know enough about it to know he killed a cop and never denied it. I mean if you didn't kill a cop and we're arrested for the murder, wouldn't you atleast testify that you didn't do it?
post #8 of 50
doesn't this belong in the tread: "why are all americans so stupid???? "
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #9 of 50
Thread Starter 
Maybe. Is Abu-Jamal still considered American?

Oh yeah, <a href="http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa070698.htm" target="_blank">http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa070698.htm</a>

and

<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/12/21/mumia/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/12/21/mumia/index.html</a>

I think he's trying to be a martyr. With out even dying.
post #10 of 50
Care to read this, or already made up your mind?

<a href="http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.sff.net/people/tbisson/MUMIA.html" target="_blank">http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsi te.htm?site=http://www.sff.net/people/tbisson/MUMIA.html</a>
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #11 of 50
I live in Philly and this subject can start some nasty situations (demonstrations galore, bar room brawls, and your basic black/white vs. liberal/conservative bullshit) down here and this of course ain't gonna help...

Oh, I agree with Scott H on this. But I guess that just ain't going to happen...
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
post #12 of 50
Of course they may still put him back on death row.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #13 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Care to read this, or already made up your mind?

<a href="http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.sff.net/people/tbisson/MUMIA.html" target="_blank">http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsi te.htm?site=http://www.sff.net/people/tbisson/MUMIA.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Every point made in that article is discussed on this web page:

<a href="http://www.danielfaulkner.com" target="_blank">www.danielfaulkner.com</a>

Especially interesting is the response to the Amnesty International letter. Read the "Myths" about the case.
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
post #14 of 50
Look at the bias of the NYT. Putting "radio journalist" is an blatant attempt to try to caste Jamal as some kind of political prisoner who's been tried and convicted for his speech.

<a href="http://www.nyt.com/2001/12/18/national/18CND-PHIL.html" target="_blank">Judge Overturns Death Sentence for Former Radio Journalist</a>
post #15 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by New:

<strong>doesn't this belong in the tread: "why are all americans so stupid???? "</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think we another thread: "why are Europeans so stupid????"
shooby doo, shooby doo
Reply
shooby doo, shooby doo
Reply
post #16 of 50
Thread Starter 
New, Terry Bisson is a personal friend of his (and a si-fi writer to boot; i.e. has a way with words). Can that article be any more biased?
post #17 of 50
This case truly stinks. Those of an open mind may care to read the background, which can easily be checked with the court records:

1. THE TRIAL Mumia was denied his constitutional right to represent himself in court and was removed from the courtroom. His court-appointed attorney hadnt interviewed one witness and informed the judge before trial that he was not prepared to proceed. The defense investigator quit before the trial and no ballistics expert or pathologist was hired because of insufficient defense funds.

In 1995, the news media exposed a festering Philadelphia police scandal: the framing-up of innocent people, corruption and police brutality. In all, 300 convictions were thrown out and many innocent victims set free. A videotape of Philadelphias District Attorney acknowledged that blacks have been routinely excluded from juries. In Mumias case 11 blacks were.

2. THE JUDGE Albert Sabo, a former member of the Fraternal Order of Police was forced into retirement,but not before he had sentenced twice as many people to death as any other sitting judge in the U. S. Six former Philadelphia prosecutors have
sworn in court documents that no accused could receive a fair trial in Judge Sabos court. Five of the seven judges on Pennsylvanias Supreme Court were supported by the Fraternal Order of Police which is waging a campaign to execute Mumia. How can he possibly get a fair trial?

3. THE FALSE WITNESSES Three key prosecution witnesses Veronica Jones, Cynthia White, and Robert Chobert all with criminal charges hanging over their heads, testified for the prosecution. For their cooperation, they were given special exemptions from criminal prosecutions. Later, Jones, while recanting her original false testimony in court, was immediately arrested on the witness stand on other charges.

4. THE TRUE WITNESSES Five witnesses, all from different vantage points, saw the real killer flee the scene while Mumia lay shot on the ground. Due to prosecutorial and/or police misconduct all but one failed to testify.

5. THE EVIDENCE An entry in the original coroners report that stated that a .44 caliber bullet killed the policeman is now considered a clerical error. Mumias gun, a .38 caliber pistol, could not have fired such a bullet. A medical examiner testified that the bullet was smashed, but a defense expert asserts that the bullet remained intact. A ballistics expert told the defense that switching bullets was done all the time.

6. THE CONFESSION Mumias supposed confession was first reported by police two months after the fact. The emergency room doctor said Mumia remained silent.

7. THE DEAD Policeman Faulkner. Also dead is the possible killer who had borrowed the drivers license found in the pocket of the dead policeman. He was arrested on other charges two months after the murder while in possession of a .22 caliber gun. He was found dead in 1985, coincidentally on the day the police bombed the black commune MOVE house, killing eleven including five children.

8. THE DEFENDANT: Mumia Abu-Jamal last year supported the NABET/CWA workers in their lockout by ABC-TV, refusing to give an interview to scabs during the dispute. He also endorsed the ILWUs Neptune Jade solidarity defense campaign from death row. He has been fighting for the oppressed since the age of 14 when he protested the racist presidential campaign of then-Alabama Governor George Wallace. A year later he joined the Black Panther Party and learned journalism. Mumia had no criminal record before his arrest for the killing of police officer Faulkner. While president of Philadelphias Association of Black Journalists, he received an award for his expose of police brutality.

9. THE FRAME-UP: Philadelphia Mayor and former Police Commissioner, Frank Rizzo, at a 1978 news conference following the death of a policeman, vowed to hold the new breed of journalist like Jamal responsible. The FBIs COINTELPRO anti terrorist program of the 70s targeted Black Panthers and other black militants for frame-ups and assassinations. Police recognized Mumia, wounded at the crime scene, where they beat him. The sham trial and subsequent rejected appeals make a mockery of justice.

10. Philadelphia courts have sentenced 126 people to death. All but 14 are people of color the highest racial disparity on death row in the nation. In an interview from death row a few years ago Mumia was asked about the fairness of capital punishment. He jokingly responded, Them that aint got the capital, get the punishment. When asked this year by The Dispatcher why the U.S. alone of the modern industrialized countries uses this barbaric practice, he pointed to the history of slavery, ... the American criminal (in)justice system is lineally descended from that horrific history. It taints the system, just like it taints consciousness. For the first time ever the human rights group Amnesty International placed the United States on its list of human rights violators along with Turkey, Algeria and Cambodia, because of police brutality, violations against imprisoned people and increased numbers of executions.

The judge in this case doesn't exactly seem like a shining example of US justice, to say the least:

<a href="http://www.iacenter.org/maj_mcarter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.iacenter.org/maj_mcarter.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/045.html" target="_blank">http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/045.html</a>

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
post #18 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>This case truly stinks. Those of an open mind may care to read the background, which can easily be checked with the court records:</strong><hr></blockquote>

Could have guessed which side you would fall on. Pro cop killer.
post #19 of 50
[quote]Could have guessed which side you would fall on. Pro cop killer. <hr></blockquote>

Scott H, do you always resort to name-calling when the facts don't quite fit what your seemingly wannabe authoritarian nature demands? Or do you only want to believe what makes you comfortable within your own frame of reference? I was just presenting the other side of the story, which nobody has done as of yet, to give some balance to a most one-sided "discussion". Or can't you accept that cases always have 2 sides to them?

It is disturbing that a case with so many irregularities can result in a death sentence. This fact obviously doesnt bother you in the least. Total and absolute shame on you. Maybe the way the American system of justice should work isn't good enough for you; perhaps you are more comfortable with kangaroo courts?

Your accusation that I am a supporter of "cop-killers" is offensive, and troll-worthy, but whatever. I know I will not get much support on this forum for putting forward the case against the State of PA, but I do not care an iota if the angle I put forward in a discussion is unpopular because of it being nonmainstream, or politically incorrect.

Scott H, do yourself a favor and put forward an argument worthy of debate, or a sensible rebuttal, instead of stamping your feet in the manner of a 5 year old and throwing cheap insults.

Enough already.
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
post #20 of 50
In my opinion the most likely explanation is that either Abu-Jamal or his brother killed Daniel Faulkner,but I also think the trial was a joke,partly caused by Abu-Jamal's own behavior,anyone who wanted to be represented by John Africa is clearly a moron.There is so much corruption and manipulation of the truth on both sides that it seems impossible to establish conclusively what happened.I used to work in the area where the shooting happened,it is basically the red light district of Philadelphia-not a very nice area-any witnesses to the shooting are not likely to be upstanding citizens.I also think Abu-Jamal's hero image among his supporters is a sham-MOVE and the Black Panthers are not very nice people,the reason the police were called in on Osage avenue was that MOVE was arming itself,harrassing and intimidating neighbors.Whether the police should have dropped a bomb and allowed a whole neighborhood to burn,well,that is another question.
post #21 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

Scott H, do you always resort to name-calling when the facts don't quite fit what your seemingly wannabe authoritarian nature demands? Or do you only want to believe what makes you comfortable within your own frame of reference? I was just presenting the other side of the story, which nobody has done as of yet, to give some balance to a most one-sided "discussion". Or can't you accept that cases always have 2 sides to them?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Oh my god you've deconstructed me so well. I have to go rock in the corner and cry with the lights off. Maybe I'll join the Taliban now like John Walker?

[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>It is disturbing that a case with so many irregularities can result in a death sentence. This fact obviously doesnt bother you in the least. Total and absolute shame on you. Maybe the way the American system of justice should work isn't good enough for you; perhaps you are more comfortable with kangaroo courts?</strong><hr></blockquote>


What I find odd is that so many people support cop killer. Or as I heard on MSNBC tonight "police officer killer". I thought the PC movement went as far as it can go when terrorist were called "freedom fighters" but now the liberal media needs to reword "cop killer" so that it doesn't sound so bad after all.

[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>Your accusation that I am a supporter of "cop-killers" is offensive, and troll-worthy, but whatever. I know I will not get much support on this forum for putting forward the case against the State of PA, but I do not care an iota if the angle I put forward in a discussion is unpopular because of it being nonmainstream, or politically incorrect.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Shoe fits wear it. If he gets out for your efforts then you helped a cop killer ooops I'm sorry didn't mean to offended "police officer" killer go free.

[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>Scott H, do yourself a favor and put forward an argument worthy of debate, or a sensible rebuttal, instead of stamping your feet in the manner of a 5 year old and throwing cheap insults.

Enough already.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.danielfaulkner.com/" target="_blank">http://www.danielfaulkner.com/</a>
post #22 of 50
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Mayor ordered the MOVE house to be bombed. The Mayor at the time was Wilson Good (a black mayor).

If you check out <a href="http://www.danielfaulkner.com/" target="_blank">http://www.danielfaulkner.com/</a> you'll note that the coroner admitted he wasn't sure what caliber the bullet was but scribbled down .44
He really had no idea.

Also, Mumia's former lawyers believe the "confession" from the man who claims to have shot Faulkner is not credible.

I wish that damn judge would have let the mob guy testify. That could have changed everything.
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
post #23 of 50
[quote]Could have guessed which side you would fall on. Pro cop killer. <hr></blockquote>

This is ridiculous. Because she's actually researched this subject and knows her stuff, she's "pro-cop killer"? Are you insane? You can't make blanket assumptions about people like that, man. Talk about bad form. I know you're not 13, don't make yourself look like it.
post #24 of 50
She doesn't know her stuff, just wants to be a part of the "Free the innocent black guy even though he's guilty" cult.

He's guilty-fry him. Take France along with him. What a bunch of pathetic assholes.............................
post #25 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by poor taylor:
<strong>

This is ridiculous. Because she's actually researched this subject and knows her stuff, she's "pro-cop killer"? Are you insane? You can't make blanket assumptions about people like that, man. Talk about bad form. I know you're not 13, don't make yourself look like it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's a Republican;he voted for a man like George W. Bush

What else is there to say?
post #26 of 50
Thread Starter 
I know!. If Gore was president we wouldn't be in this stinking war. Planes would be crashing into buildings and suicide bombers would have a field day every week in our cities, but we wouldn't be in a war!
post #27 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by poor taylor:
<strong>

This is ridiculous. Because she's actually researched this subject and knows her stuff, she's "pro-cop killer"? Are you insane? You can't make blanket assumptions about people like that, man. Talk about bad form. I know you're not 13, don't make yourself look like it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Calls it likes I sees it.
post #28 of 50
[quote]If Gore was president we wouldn't be in this stinking war. Planes would be crashing into buildings and suicide bombers would have a field day every week in our cities, but we wouldn't be in a war!<hr></blockquote>

Really not too sure about that Outsider. Gore and Bush were so indistingishable in the Presidential 'debates' that they could easily have been in the same party. (They agreed with each other point for point in 80%+ of all issues discussed).

Furthermore, democrats are always perceived as being the non-hawkish party and in a national emergency like Sept 11, they would be under huge pressure to deliver the goods; the last thing they would want would is be to be seen thrughout the nation and world as wimping out. As in the UK, where their PM, Tony Blair, a Labor leader (who is in a similar ideological space to Gore) was even more hawkish than the Bush White House when the attacks happened. Conservatives have less to prove re. defense issues and military readiness etc. Democrats are aware have to demonstrate that they can deliver as well. And btw... I believe that more conflicts the US has gotten into have been under a Democrat president than a Republican.
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
post #29 of 50
Now do you SEE what happens when you let NON-scientists run things... jeez.


---------------------------
Vote for Philip!
Another garbled attempt to use the English language by your local physicist.
Reply
Another garbled attempt to use the English language by your local physicist.
Reply
post #30 of 50
Al Gore is a scientist. He invented the internet.
post #31 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>I know!. If Gore was president we wouldn't be in this stinking war. Planes would be crashing into buildings and suicide bombers would have a field day every week in our cities, but we wouldn't be in a war!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Lets not forget that the Transportation secretary is a Democrat. He was the one who portentially saved thousands of lives by called the FFA, not wasting time getting approval of the silly President, to bring down all planes and shut down all airports on September 11.
post #32 of 50
[quote]Calls it likes I sees it. <hr></blockquote>

It's finally been proved that you're blind then.

Every time someone disagrees with you, you resort to name calling. That's poor. If you think you're right, argue her points.

Back to the topic. All that has happened here is that the sentence has been overturned and he will be resentenced. No one is going to be freed over this. The man was found guilty in a court of law and the conviction stands.

As I'm against the death penalty, I'm glad that the sentence was overturned. There are a ton of people out there that have killed law enforcement officials, but they end up rotting in prison for the rest of their lives. That's what I believe is going to happen to this guy. If they sentence him to death again, he'll probably spend another 20 years on death row and die of old age.
post #33 of 50
Thread Starter 
That's his job. He wouln't be in his office if he couldn't do the most basic of his tasks. It's not like he did something extra-ordinary. He did his job and made the right decision. I don't think all Democrats are heartless monsters you know.
post #34 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>

It's finally been proved that you're blind then.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Am I blind or the only one who can see

I do believe what I said. I think people who support these lost causes are supporting some kind of anti-establishment movement. Like the anarchist "protesters" at all the global meetings. It's pro-destruction and pro-kill the pigs. It's pro cop killer. If you support Jamal you are supporting a cop killer.
post #35 of 50
[quote]I do believe what I said. I think people who support these lost causes are supporting some kind of anti-establishment movement. Like the anarchist "protesters" at all the global meetings. It's pro-destruction and pro-kill the pigs. It's pro cop
killer. If you support Jamal you are supporting a cop killer.<hr></blockquote>

All I did, Scott, was to point out the numerous, and well-known irregularities surrounding the original trial. Why is this so unacceptable to you? Are you so trusting of the system that by default, everyone always gets a fair trial, the playing field is always level, racism doesnt exist, police departments are uncorruptible, and so on? Why does pointing out trashy trials make me a "copkiller supporter"? When procedure is compromised to accomodate an easy conviction (or popular opinion), it often backfires. Perhaps you aren't bothered, but that of course is your right.

If he had been found guilty in an untainted trial, then he would have had no grounds to have become a cause celebre.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
Reply
post #36 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>
If he had been found guilty in an untainted trial, then he would have had no grounds to have become a cause celebre.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ha ha ha ha that's funny. All he needs is good writing skills and white guilt to become a "cause celebre"
post #37 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

All I did, Scott, was to point out the numerous, and well-known irregularities surrounding the original trial.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You did more than that. At least three things in your 10 item list have nothing to do with case. One I found to be borderline. The remaining 4 are are varying degrees of value to the case itself.
post #38 of 50
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong> All that has happened here is that the sentence has been overturned and he will be resentenced. ..The man was found guilty in a court of law and the conviction stands. </strong><hr></blockquote>
thanks, that's what i wanted to know. now as a cost savings i suggest he, zacharias moussaoui (sp?) and john walker share the same cell
post #39 of 50
Scott H

Do us all a favor and Shutup about shit you don't know. Accusing people of supporting Cop killers is stretching things way too far. Reading your blathering rebuttals is an exercise in pain. You are the exact reason why Dumb Americans threads thrive online.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #40 of 50
Well, he killed a cop, and she supports setting him free. What part of that don't you understand? That is supporting a cop killer............................................ .......
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Abu-Jamal: off death row