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Do all americans support death-penalty?

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
Scott H, Outsider and Artman @_@ are obviously strong supporters, but what about the rest of you? Just curious?
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post #2 of 58
I am opposed to it.
post #3 of 58
Yes. Everyone in America agrees. Just yesterday all the remaining restrictions in the states that do not allow the death penalty have been removed.


BTW I wouldn't call myself a "strong supporter". But IMO there are many cases that demand it.
post #4 of 58
Thread Starter 
As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?
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post #5 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are just not seeing it.
This is a very hotly debated topic.

I'm against it as well.
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post #6 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most Americans support it. I don't. I think there would be more debate if those of us who are opposed to the death penalty would lose the sanctimony. As far as that goes, Europeans frequently don't help either.
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post #7 of 58
You're not seeing it. It's a big debate issue. Typically, as our political parties tend to polarize their opinion on everything (to the point of absurdity sometimes). As such the Repulbican ticket tends to be pro-death penalty, and the democratic side tends to be anti-death penalty. But it's not that clear-cut. Most americans do support it, but there is a lot of debate, and while most do support it, they tend to disagree as to what circumstances would warrant such a severe penalty.

Frankly, I'm generally against it, I have ahrd time wishing death on anyone. However in some of my more pragmatic moments I think it's more cost-effective to euthanize some people who simply have no remorse and pose a constant threat to escape or maim even those who keep them captive. It might be argued that in them most shameful cases, it's more merciful too. The only thing that keeps me for asking for bin Laden's head on a platter is that he might be seen as a martyr in the act. Imagine the treatment he would have if he's captured by the US (instead of the UN).
post #8 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are ignorant. (I love saying that to Europeans.)
post #9 of 58
I am all for the death penalty
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post #10 of 58
I'm for it. If I have the right to defend my life and the lives of others with deadly force, then I can surely delegate that right of self-defense to the state. There are some people who don't deserve to live after what they've done, and I don't deserve to have to worry about meeting some of them on the street.

Sure, the BUSINESS of the death penalty is a racket, and it may not be applied "fairly" across races. Those are operational issues, and they're going to be hard to fix as long as the high crime rate among minorities keeps getting higher.
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post #11 of 58
I am against the death penalty.
post #12 of 58
I'm in favour of it. I just think there need to be provisions in place to reverse the procedure should the guilty be cleared in the future. You know, DNA matches, etc.



Oh, wait a minute, you asked about Americans... nevermind.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
post #13 of 58
DO 'all' of any group of people have exactly the same opinion on any given subject?

Hell No.

I support it, though.
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post #14 of 58
Thread Starter 
Hehe, right on Scott! Let's turn this into a Europe Vs. The US debate again! That was precisly my intent. Nothing more satisfying than bashing a few uncultivated, uncivilized americans... (irony)...
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post #15 of 58
Im for it.
My mom is Swedish. Before she came over here with my dad she was opposed to the death penalty. But after a while she saw all of the horrific crimes that occur here more than any european country. It is a necissary evil for those that choose to destroy other peoples lives. Serial killers, violent rapist, and so on. By taking someones life in cold murder you give up your right to your own in my opinion.

Ask yourself this. What if someone murdered your family and raped your daughter (if you have one.) And through the course of the investigation you found he had done this many times before to other innocent people. This is clearly a sick person who has no hope of rehabilitation, or to be able to live in society with others. Nor should any mercy be placed on their soul.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
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post #16 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

<strong>You're not seeing it. It's a big debate issue. Typically, as our political parties tend to polarize their opinion on everything (to the point of absurdity sometimes). As such the Repulbican ticket tends to be pro-death penalty, and the democratic side tends to be anti-death penalty. UN).</strong><hr></blockquote>

There's some truth to this but not much. Both Clinton and Gore were pro-death penalty. Arkansas even had an execution during the '92 primaries. Despite Jerry Brown's best efforts at moral grandstanding (btw, I supported Brown in '92 - Brown's victory that year in the CT primary was the last time Clinton lost anything) the issue was a nonstarter. If you can't light a fire over this issue during the Democrtic primaries, I'd say there is some ambivalence regarding the death penalty on the Democratic side too.
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post #17 of 58
Thread Starter 
I am ofcourse aware that there are many opposed to it... I was more interested in the general attitude among members of this board...
In Norway, where I come from, you would more or less disqualify yourself from any intellectual conversation if you advocated the death penalty...

Falcon: I might kill him in, but then I'm not the state or government am I?
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post #18 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by New:

<strong>Hehe, right on Scott! Let's turn this into a Europe Vs. The US debate again! That was precisly my intent. Nothing more satisfying than bashing a few uncultivated, uncivilized americans... (irony)...</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is your idea of being civilized and cultivated? Like I said a couple of posts above this: Europeans don't help either.
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post #19 of 58
I believe in it in certain siutations and don't in other situations. I think when it's something huge like Sept. 11th and like with the Oklahoma City bombing then the murderer should be killed. Otherwise I think life in jail is harsh enough.
post #20 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>
In Norway, where I come from, you would more or less disqualify yourself from any intellectual conversation if you advocated the death penalty...</strong><hr></blockquote>

So? Stalin had more than his share of fans among intellectuals too.
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post #21 of 58
[quote]Do all americans support death-penalty?<hr></blockquote>Here's a link from Gallup on American's attitudes toward the death penalty.

<a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/inddeath_pen.asp" target="_blank">http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/inddeath_pen.asp</A>

I was surprised - I thought it was higher. It's about 2/3 in favor, down from 80% in the mid-90s.

When Dukakis was against it in 1988, and lost to George the First, Dems brought in Clinton in '92, who, during the campaign, went back to Arkansas to execute a retarded guy.

I think there's been a shift in the past several years due to DNA tests releasing lots of people who were convicted, some on death row.

It's too bad the Mumia case has become so popular, because he almost certainly did the crime. There are lots of cases where people have been convicted and then proven innocent.
post #22 of 58
I'm for it but only for the most severest of crimes such as serial murder and murder/rape. Rotting in prison for life is pretty harsh too.
post #23 of 58
Thread Starter 
roger ramjet : irony...!!! get it? (so maybe it wasn't funny, but it wasn't serious either)...

I was also trying to point out how different our current political climates are... not attacking you personally...
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post #24 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>I'm for it but only for the most severest of crimes such as serial murder and murder/rape. Rotting in prison for life is pretty harsh too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's if the prisons can fit anymore tenants. They are too overcrowded. And be that a prison sentence isn't a pleasure cruise, most of the harshest offenders still get "three hots and a cot" and other privileges, whereas if their crime was severe enough (IMO) they should be removed from society permanently.

Again, it seem to be religion that argues it with it's "Thou shalt not kill"...err, isn't that what the murderers should contemplate before they kill and kill again?

This also isn't "An eye for an eye" thing either. You kill another human being and will not accept your actions or rehabilitate yourself after release then why should one like you live?
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post #25 of 58
i-like the vast majority of people from my particular corner of this rather vast country- am opposed to executions. there is however merit in having the death penalty be legal, if there are never death penalty sentences (decreases frequency of appeals. which some might argue is a bad thing. but it certainly saves money.)
but it really really is high time the us banned the death penalty, if only for diplomatic reasons. it's pathetic that americans think europeans are stupid for banning it and desiring that we ban it as well, when instead this could be taken advantage of. we could gain a lot of face by taking our heads out of our asses and for once doing something which another nation wants, rather than insisting on being "independently powerful" and stupid. but that's not likely to happen with the kind of religious zealotry that plagues this country these days. gosh, religion wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so stupid about following it!
that a majority of people would believe the death penalty is good in a country where a majority of people believe that a book which tells them not to kill is holy... what a country
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post #26 of 58
Maybe we should freeze them and store them until the prisons thin out. Then we can thaw them and have them live out their sentence. Even though it might be 50 years after the crime...
post #27 of 58
I am not a supporter of the "death penalty".

One reason is that when it comes down to anything in this world, you get what you pay for, and justice is no exception. You can be 100% guilty and get off even if you are in a minority group, given the financial resources. It is more than likely that innocent people have been put to death in the past, and one executed innocent person is too many; it drags the state down to the level of murderer. Execution by the state is a killing as cold-blooded and pre-meditated as any. Statistically it has never been proved to be a deterrent (althought statistics can tell you anything). Also, it is not applied evenhandedly regarding race or economic standing:

<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/dunham1.html" target="_blank">http://www.counterpunch.org/dunham1.html</a>

I feel that anyone found guilty of a currently 'capital offense' should get a life sentence. That is, a real life sentence, until the day he dies. The average 8 year stretch is a sick joke.

And, why do we kill people to show people that killing people is wrong?

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
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post #28 of 58
I don't support it, but in some cases I can't get worked up about it. If you tie an innocent man to the back of your pickup and drag him to death, or beat a 120 lb teenager sensless, lash him to a fence and leave him to die, if you face the death sentence somehow I cannot bring myself to weep at your plight.

The one that really changed it for me was a case several years ago. A man in Chicago decided with his new girlfriend to get the unborn baby his old girlfriend was carrying. So they kidnapped the poor woman and butchered her. Cut the unborn child out of her living flesh. I think that, frankly, if they were so evil that they could think out, plot and execute a crime so mind-boggling in it's inhumanity, and so stupid that they could not have travelled 40 minutes to Wisconsin (no death penalty) to do it, then I can't get terribly upset at the idea that they might ride the lightning.

And I have been accused of being a knee-jerk liberal in another thread...
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post #29 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by tmp:
<strong>The one that really changed it for me was a case several years ago. A man in Chicago decided with his new girlfriend to get the unborn baby his old girlfriend was carrying. So they kidnapped the poor woman and butchered her. Cut the unborn child out of her living flesh.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I remember that. If I remember they used car keys to cut it out. It must be false because how could that even work? The baby lived. The older kids were killed too. The was no doubt about the guilty of the people involved.
post #30 of 58
[quote]it's pathetic that americans think europeans are stupid for banning it and desiring that we ban it as well, when instead this could be taken advantage of. we could gain a lot of face by taking our heads out of our asses and for once doing something which another nation wants<hr></blockquote>

Frankly this is just plain wrong. I do not think Europeans are stupid for banning it. They have there own countries with their own laws. But the thought of banning the death penalty here just becuase some people across the pond want us to is frankly backwards. Maybe you havent noticed (or maybe you have) but America, its citizens, and their rightfull elected officals will do what they think is best for this country. We are citizens, and we need to make that choice for ourselves. And not be influnced by the illinformed outcry from many miles away. They do not see what I see, they do not see the injustices that I whitness everyday against my fellow human.
When I become older I want to live safely in my home. With children that can play in the neighborhood with little fear. A place where I dont have to worry whether everything I have built will be swepted away by the actions of a mad-man. If you cant understand that, then no explanations from me will convince you.

Anyway im tired have the last of my finals tomorrow and should get some sleep.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
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post #31 of 58
I am 100% in favor of it...in fact it could be used a little more* IMHO.

*For people who choose to use Windows (excluding those who are forced to through work 'cause you can;t balme a man for tryin' to make a living). I would start with the public execution of the Dell kid.**

**Of course don;t take this seriously...it is 100% a joke. Windows users can be imprisioned for their lives and forced to look at "blue screens of death" for the rst of their lives.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Horned_Frog ]</p>
post #32 of 58
lol, reminds me of a cartoon i saw years ago. a man was about to be hung, and he turns to his executioner and says "studies have shown that the death penalty doesn't do anything to deter crime"

to which the executioner replied "i'll believe that next time i see you here"

post #33 of 58
Let's get right down to it... In general terms Liberals / Democrats are more often ANTI death penalty while Conservitives / Rebublicans are more often PRO death penalty. (generally speaking)

I just find it so odd that a those same people who are ANTI death penalty are ALL FOR the killing of unborn children. It sure is a strange world we live in...

Save the killers and Kill the babies... No wonder we are where we are. :confused:

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post #34 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>I just find it so odd that a those same people who are ANTI death penalty are ALL FOR the killing of unborn children.</strong><hr></blockquote>Although some people are against the death penalty for moral reasons, many liberals are against it because we may be killing the wrong guys, not that we may be killing bad guys. It's more of a lack of trust in the gov't and the criminal justice system than being against killing killers. Many of the folks with moral reasons against the death penalty are the religious conservatives rather than liberals.

To me, it's odd that conservatives, who supposedly want reduced government, are in favor of the gov't killing people, and in favor of gov't regulation of reproduction. That sounds like pretty big gov't to me.
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post #35 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>
You are ignorant. (I love saying that to Europeans.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

*LoL* As someone with a European (sometimes know-it-all) brother-in-law, that was funny. Thanks Scott. I needed that.

In geneal I would like to make three assertions:

1. Nobody here has any idea what percentage of Americans supports the death penalty.

2. Like Scott, I support it but only in certain circumstances.

3. People in this community of ours (AI) need to be more careful when naming their threads. In recent memory we have

"Boycott the Salvation Army" - which, it turns out, is not entirely what the poster wanted, but rather to "see what we thought" (rather like:

"Do All Americans support death-penalty?"

Yah, all 380-some million of us. It's unanimous.

and then there was

"Why are All Americans so Stupid?"

and

"What are All Americans so Fat?"


Can we at least phrase the questions a little more intelligently so as to avoid the inevitable "how can you possibly say we're ALL _______ , you moron?" type debates that follow?

Gracias.
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post #36 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>Although some people are against the death penalty for moral reasons, many liberals are against it because we may be killing the wrong guys, not that we may be killing bad guys. It's more of a lack of trust in the gov't and the criminal justice system than being against killing killers. Many of the folks with moral reasons against the death penalty are the religious conservatives rather than liberals.

To me, it's odd that conservatives, who supposedly want reduced government, are in favor of the gov't killing people, and in favor of gov't regulation of reproduction. That sounds like pretty big gov't to me.
:eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm what you'd call a Civil Libertarian.... I'm pro-choice and pro-death (try and figure that one out) and I strongly follow Jeffersonian ways; i.e. FedGov would have minimal powers and size, and respects the rights of people to choose for themselves. A government that governs least, governs best. The federal Government should do little more (very little) than defend the country / borders. States would hold the power.

I'm also what you'd consider a fiscial consertive... Please don't tell (force) me how and where I need to spend/donate/throw-away my hard earned money... I can take care of it myself thank you very much.

It's not easy being me in a world of Dems and GOPers... But when it comes down to it I have to admit I usually land on the GOP side of the fence far more often then the Dem side.

Dave

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
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post #37 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>Although some people are against the death penalty for moral reasons, many liberals are against it because we may be killing the wrong guys, not that we may be killing bad guys. It's more of a lack of trust in the gov't and the criminal justice system than being against killing killers. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Really? Seems to me that you could pass a law that requires DNA evidence when applying the death penalty and then there's be no controversy from you guys. Yeah, that ain't so.
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post #38 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>i-like the vast majority of people from my particular corner of this rather vast country- am opposed to executions. there is however merit in having the death penalty be legal, if there are never death penalty sentences (decreases frequency of appeals. which some might argue is a bad thing. but it certainly saves money.)
but it really really is high time the us banned the death penalty, if only for diplomatic reasons. it's pathetic that americans think europeans are stupid for banning it and desiring that we ban it as well, when instead this could be taken advantage of. we could gain a lot of face by taking our heads out of our asses and for once doing something which another nation wants, rather than insisting on being "independently powerful" and stupid. but that's not likely to happen with the kind of religious zealotry that plagues this country these days. gosh, religion wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so stupid about following it!
that a majority of people would believe the death penalty is good in a country where a majority of people believe that a book which tells them not to kill is holy... what a country </strong><hr></blockquote>

What a confused jumble of tidbits that was. What kind of flowers you sniffing over there Flowerbob?

You are against the death penalty, but you are for having it legal, but against ??? I lost you there. And then you jump to completely banning it like the UK. Does it have merit or not?

Ans as for tryin got gain face by giving up due to pressure from other countries. As my mother used to say, "Just because he jumped off a bridge does not mean you have to as well." If Europe want to have no death penalty fine, I don't live in Europe so I have no say in that, I live here and I say the death penalty should stay.

Gosh, your post wouldn't have been so bad if you weren't so muddled about posting it.

And for that last quote, Thou shalt not kill has to do with you personally. When you break that law the punishment is up to those in authority over you to determine. Not up to you or me. Those in authority say that certain crimes are punishable by death, so death is the punishment.

Wow, that was hard. Anyone here speak "flowerbob"?
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post #39 of 58
[quote]I just find it so odd that a those same people who are ANTI death penalty are ALL FOR the killing of unborn children. It sure is a strange world we live in...<hr></blockquote>

Sad, but true. Of course, 62.4 million Catholics can't be wrong

from the catechism of the catholic church (p.2267):

[quote]...'Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'<hr></blockquote>

from p.2271:

[quote]"Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish. God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: Abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.<hr></blockquote>
post #40 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
<strong>Really? Seems to me that you could pass a law that requires DNA evidence when applying the death penalty and then there's be no controversy from you guys. Yeah, that ain't so.</strong><hr></blockquote>I believe a lot of the recent decline in support of execution is due to the DNA releases of innocents. So, yes, I do think a law that required DNA proof before execution would go a long way towards making it more acceptable. It would do it for me. For those who are opposed for moral reasons, like yourself, probably not.

Of course, if DNA proof was required, there would be almost no executions.
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