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Do all americans support death-penalty? - Page 2

post #41 of 58
What is the purpose of killing someone who poses a clear and imminent danger to society?

Not revenge.
Self Preservation.

But...

Death is too good for them, don't you think? I'd like to see a way to let the killer experience the same terror and feeling of what it is like to be killed. Over and over.
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post #42 of 58
I wish we had a jail that was real punishment. Hard labor, bread and water. "Three colds and a stone floor". But we don't. It's all cable TV and thugs suing for a softer pillow. Maybe if there was real punishment for lifers we see more people choosing life in prison and not death.
post #43 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>I wish we had a jail that was real punishment. Hard labor, bread and water. "Three colds and a stone floor". But we don't. It's all cable TV and thugs suing for a softer pillow. Maybe if there was real punishment for lifers we see more people choosing life in prison and not death.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And what would that accomplish? Is the death penalty or the procedure described above is really a deterrent against heinous crimes?

Ask almost any person on death row who doesn't claim innocence, and they'll say that they weren't thinking of the consequences when crimiting their heinous crime, or they thought they'd get away with it.

And where does that leave us as a society after you kill them or lock them away and throw away the key?

Nothing except two or more families devastated and one or more human beings' lives destroyed.

So why is the state engaging such a destructive practice?
The answer is simple. It's for society's ids; to keep normal people from commiting socially unacceptable practices. The freaks are going to commit the crime anyway so why not use them as examples to make the mundane masses conform?

And morality has nothing to do with it. Soldiers kill all the time.

Texas is a perfect example of this. The majority of those on death row are minorities; the "freaks", convicted not by a jury of peers, but a jury of morally justified executioners.

It all boils down to the opinion of if one thinks this is wrong. I think it is.

Merry Christmas

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</p>
post #44 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
[QB]

And what would that accomplish? Is the death penalty or the procedure described above is really a deterrent against heinous crimes?<hr></blockquote>

Maybe maybe not. It's about punishment for these people. Reform is out of the question. Give the jury some real punishment, besides death, and they'll go for it more.
post #45 of 58
Scott, is it fun playing hard-ass?
Jail isn't fun.

All cable TV and suing for soft pillows... ha!

Funny how overfed white people like us can know such things with such certainty.
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post #46 of 58
Prison is not fun. Prison is a dangerous world that does nothing to rehabilitate the criminal. Isn't that the point of prison? To provide a place where the criminal can realize the error of their ways, or at least discover a new path?

But in order to accomplish this the criminal needs to understand the value of the difference between right and wrong. This is something sorely lacking in modern American society. It's why we're fat, arrogant, lazy, stupid, and would rather eliminate problems (like criminals) than solve them. Because to face the nature of race, class, and discrimination is more than we can bear.
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post #47 of 58
I think we do our species a favor by eliminating these defective genes from our genepool. I don't see excecution as a punishment. It's not. Punishment is meant to teach the offender a lesson or at least show him consequences of his actions. it's discipline. Excecution serves one important purpose: some criminals (murderers mostly) will never learn or are incapable of learning. Therefore you must protect the people on the outside. It's either death or a brain transplant (maybe the victims).
post #48 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>However in some of my more pragmatic moments I think it's more cost-effective to euthanize some people who simply have no remorse and pose a constant threat to escape or maim even those who keep them captive.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is actually not true. It is actually much cheaper to incarcerate a prisonere for life than to execute them. Mostly due to the legal fees involved with the appeals process.

For the record, I am generally opposed to the death penalty.
post #49 of 58
Most people do not understand the verb rehabilitate.

It's root is habilitate, which means to "put on clothing", with the antonym "undress". When used in a social/personal context, it means to recieve dignity, with its antonym, "embarrassment".

With the prefix "re", it literally means to give a person back his dignity.

It is certainly ironic how far off the reality is.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</p>
post #50 of 58
Good or bad, <a href="http://apnews.excite.com/article/20011220/D7GH4JKG0.html" target="_blank">prisons are overcrowded.</a>

"The prison was designed to hold 2,200 prisoners but currently has more than 4,000 inmates in its minimum- and maximum-security wings. It was not immediately clear whether crowding may have contributed to the rioting and Bach said it may take several days to determine the exact cause."
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post #51 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
What a confused jumble of tidbits that was. What kind of flowers you sniffing over there Flowerbob?
You are against the death penalty, but you are for having it legal, but against ??? I lost you there. And then you jump to completely banning it like the UK. Does it have merit or not?
Ans as for tryin got gain face by giving up due to pressure from other countries. As my mother used to say, "Just because he jumped off a bridge does not mean you have to as well." If Europe want to have no death penalty fine, I don't live in Europe so I have no say in that, I live here and I say the death penalty should stay.
Gosh, your post wouldn't have been so bad if you weren't so muddled about posting it.
And for that last quote, Thou shalt not kill has to do with you personally. When you break that law the punishment is up to those in authority over you to determine. Not up to you or me. Those in authority say that certain crimes are punishable by death, so death is the punishment.
Wow, that was hard. Anyone here speak "flowerbob"?<hr></blockquote>

LOL not sniffing any flowers. the flowers are all gone now . [i ate them ] but there are always more flowers
let me try to explain with more words:
in cases where the sentance is death penalty, there is almost always an appeal. in cases where it would have been possible to ask for death sentance, but the prosecution asks for a lesser sentance and there is a conviction, an appeal is much less likely. therefore, i you want to save resources, having the death penalty legal but never sentancing people to death is very efficient. i am proposing this as a point of discussion, though i do not have a clear idea of whether the cons of this outweigh the pros.
with the issue of "banning the death penalty because europe banned it"... no offense, but you are providing a perfect example of the rather retarded mindset that fucks up american foreign policy: you are saying that because we are americans, we can do whatever the hell we want, and it doesn't matter at all what direction the international community is moving in, or the desires of our allies. how can a nation with this kind of "philosophy" justify making demands of other nations? not logically, and we look like arrogant idiots when we try (which is all the time).
am i being sufficently clear this time around? if not just say and i'll post it all again.
finally, the last point. as you so succinctly pointed out earlier, there is death penalty because (enough) americans want death penalty. now, for a moment let's just agree to not get into stupid picky arguments about "which" amercians want it, because there is a majority of americans who want it, and a majority of americans who are christian. therefore there are americans who are christian and want the death penalty. i'm concerning myself solely with them for the moment, and i'm not interested in how numerous they are. the point is the exist.
now, you seem to be saying that for these people, it's alright to live under an authority system which kills people, as long as they are not killing people themselves. however, as you so succinctly put it, here in america the government is killing people because these very christians ask that the government do so. you then are implying that for christians, it's alright to interpret "thou shalt not kill" as "you should get other people to do your killing for you," which i *don't* believe is at all what that law is supposed to mean. if this isn't what you meant, please clarify.

ps. my logic is impeccable. you just have to already understand it to understand it. see what i mean?
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post #52 of 58
I used to be a Death Penalty supporting in my younger naive days. Now I live by the mantra "it's better to let 10 guilty criminals go free rather than to execute one innocent individual"

The results have been tallied and the Death Penalty is overwhelming used on minorities and criminals from a lower socioeconomic strata.

The United States inability to give EVERY citizen equal Due Process has destroyed any chance that Capital Punishment can ever become a viable deterrent for crime despite the incredulity of the average American.

I suggest that our Prison System segregates criminals by crime and offers no preferential treatment...therefore if you're a rapist and your fellow prisoners don't take to kind to your type and wish you bodily harm then so beit...Jailhouse Natural Selection is what I call it.
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post #53 of 58
"it's better to let 10 guilty criminals go free rather than to execute one innocent individual"

So you'de rather have the US be full of violent criminals? And you're assuming EVERY person excecuted is innocent. How's this for the otherside of the coin: what if some guy is locked up for 40 years for a murder he didn't commit. Then he is released when he is found innocent. Is that any better? i think the person might disagree, especially if he was locked up with some sick-o's and got ass raped every day. Either way you do an injustice.
post #54 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>"it's better to let 10 guilty criminals go free rather than to execute one innocent individual"

So you'de rather have the US be full of violent criminals? And you're assuming EVERY person excecuted is innocent. How's this for the otherside of the coin: what if some guy is locked up for 40 years for a murder he didn't commit. Then he is released when he is found innocent. Is that any better? i think the person might disagree, especially if he was locked up with some sick-o's and got ass raped every day. Either way you do an injustice.</strong><hr></blockquote>


No I'd rather the US not be full of Criminals but just imagine being innocent and sitting on Death Row waiting for your death. I'm not assuming that every person executed is innocent but it is %100 unacceptable to execute an innocent person...if this means disbanding Capital Punishment then sobeit. It is an ineffective tool that full of Inequities. The only way to stop crime is to head it off at an early age. Sadly parenting in the US could get alot better.
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post #55 of 58
[quote]The results have been tallied and the Death Penalty is overwhelming used on minorities and criminals from a lower socioeconomic strata.<hr></blockquote>

Can anyone explain why?
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post #56 of 58
I'd like a link to the tally myself.
post #57 of 58
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

Can anyone explain why?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yes the same reason you might feel a little more nervous about and individual who might look a little scruffy walking behind you. We are all products of our environments but no one has the vast life experiences to understand EVERY situation. Therefore we must rely on outside "prejudices" in some cases.

As for why minorities are singled out there are a variety of reasons but at it's base is the "Comfort Zone" that we all expect. Humans will always be fallible creatures in judgement because we only feel calm when we "trust" we feel uneasy about change and the unknown. Therefore it becomes hard to execute someone when you feel like you know them.

Case in point. Willie Horton destroyed Micheal Dukakis when the country found out Dukakis' was remotely involved in a Furlough program that let Horton murder again. There was no attempt to get to know Horton and therefore his was the subject of intense vitriol.

however, the case of Karla Faye Tucker shows that once we develop a "bond" with a person...it doesn't matter to some that they may be a cold blooded murderer..we feel compassion and feel the need to create sites devoted to showing this compassion

<a href="http://www.straightway.org/karla/karla.htm" target="_blank">http://www.straightway.org/karla/karla.htm</a>

Therein bring the final conclusion. Capital Punishment is dealt to those who haven't necessarily committed worse crimes..but those who failed to generate any modicum of sympathy and passion. Those people tend to be minorities and people of a lower economic class structure.
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post #58 of 58
[quote]herein bring the final conclusion. Capital Punishment is dealt to those who haven't necessarily committed worse crimes..but those who failed to generate any modicum of sympathy and passion. Those people tend to be minorities and people of a lower economic class structure.<hr></blockquote>

It also has something to do with the quality of services that can be obtained for a nominal amount of $$. In any area of trade, you get what you pay for, and justice/legal services is just another service, or goods. Even a brazenly guilty person from a minority (OJ maybe?) can get off a dual murder charge given the wherewithal.

typos! :eek:

[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
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