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Review roundup: Zune HD plays catchup to iPod touch - Page 2

post #41 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saldin View Post

In that parallel universe, the Zune wouldn't exist either because it's a copy of (and a reaction to) Apple's iPod.

Right- and Apple invented music too.
post #42 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Glowing reviews.
Oh well, so much for AppleInsider's bashing of it the day before it was released.

They're hardly glowing. They acknowledge it, at best, as "good enough", which is barely enough when taking on the iPod Touch. It's widely ackowledged as a me-too attempt that would have been cool in 2006, but which doesn't cut it in 2009.
post #43 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right- and Apple invented music too.

C'mon Teck, at least troll with some effectiveness.

Music pre-iTunes.

Now look at Music post-iTunes.

See any differences?
post #44 of 232
This is the MS answer to the original iPhone Steve Jobs unveiled at the start of 2007. At that point the iPhone had:
No 3rd party apps
No SDK
No Voice Control
No Voice Memos
No Maps
No Peer to Peer games
No "cloud" services
No copy and paste
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
No You Tube
No Flash
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
The list goes on and on but this applied to the iPhone OVER 2 AND A HALF YEARS AGO. It's as if Microsoft took aim then and didn't even bother to look at the huge amount of improvements Apple has made to its offerings in the meantime.

The Zune may well have been competitive 2 years ago but its completely smashed if you compare the devices the way every single product in the market is compared on a feature to feature basis. The Zune only scrapes enough capability to compete on music and video playback and nothing else. Crap browser. No decent apps probably ever. Zilch.

How many people are going to buy this on the basis that MS will deliver the goods in the near future only to be left high and dry when development is scrapped for the next MS 'iPod Killer". Has this not happened before?
post #45 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I didn't realize the Zune HD AV dock was $90. That's a bit much in my opinion, if it really costs that much extra just to take advantage of the "HD" part of the name.

True, but I suspect Apple would charge a similar price if they were to offer HD video output from the touch (which I hope they include in the next revision). The cost to implement the necessary digital output with HDMI handshake and such is probably a bit more than a simple analog output.

But I think such a feature would be great, not only for making your HD iTunes videos portable (movie night at a friend's out), but also for displaying your photos on an HDTV
post #46 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

They're hardly glowing. They acknowledge it, at best, as "good enough", which is barely enough when taking on the iPod Touch. It's widely ackowledged as a me-too attempt that would have been cool in 2006, but which doesn't cut it in 2009.

They had OLED in 2006? They had radioHD in 2006? They had 720p HD playback in 2006?What planet's website have you been reading?
post #47 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Chapel View Post

Can someone answer something for me. Since people have trashed the iPhone and iPod Touch for not having background processes, I'm wondering if the ZuneHD has background processes?

And more to the point, why isn't the ZuneHD being trashed for not having Flash and a removable battery?

there is no SDK for the ZuneHD so you only get the apps that MS gave you. no need for background processes since there is nothing to process
post #48 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmuk View Post

This is the MS answer to the original iPhone Steve Jobs unveiled at the start of 2007. At that point the iPhone had:
No 3rd party apps
No SDK
No Voice Control
No Voice Memos
No Maps
No Peer to Peer games
No "cloud" services
No copy and paste
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
No You Tube
No Flash
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
The list goes on and on but this applied to the iPhone OVER 2 AND A HALF YEARS AGO. It's as if Microsoft took aim then and didn't even bother to look at the huge amount of improvements Apple has made to its offerings in the meantime.

The Zune may well have been competitive 2 years ago but its completely smashed if you compare the devices the way every single product in the market is compared on a feature to feature basis. The Zune only scrapes enough capability to compete on music and video playback and nothing else. Crap browser. No decent apps probably ever. Zilch.

How many people are going to buy this on the basis that MS will deliver the goods in the near future only to be left high and dry when development is scrapped for the next MS 'iPod Killer". Has this not happened before?

It's a repeat of the original Zune. It's perfectly in line with Microsoft's MO. Cobble something together because a) your previous product failed and people are laughing a little too hard, or b) you want to quickly jump into the game, in the hopes that the more you throw at the wall, something will eventually stick.
post #49 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmuk View Post

This is the MS answer to the original iPhone Steve Jobs unveiled at the start of 2007. At that point the iPhone had:
No 3rd party apps
No SDK
No Voice Control
No Voice Memos
No Maps
No Peer to Peer games
No "cloud" services
No copy and paste
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
No You Tube
No Flash
(it got slaughtered, absolutely mangled for this. Zune? No comment)
The list goes on and on but this applied to the iPhone OVER 2 AND A HALF YEARS AGO. It's as if Microsoft took aim then and didn't even bother to look at the huge amount of improvements Apple has made to its offerings in the meantime.

The Zune may well have been competitive 2 years ago but its completely smashed if you compare the devices the way every single product in the market is compared on a feature to feature basis. The Zune only scrapes enough capability to compete on music and video playback and nothing else. Crap browser. No decent apps probably ever. Zilch.

How many people are going to buy this on the basis that MS will deliver the goods in the near future only to be left high and dry when development is scrapped for the next MS 'iPod Killer". Has this not happened before?

You left out- NO Video camera
and - NO MMS
post #50 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

indeed. for the Zune collection it is a vast improvement.

however, compared to the Touch, it's got a long way to go. it is half the storage at this point which is a major deal for many. the Zune Pass, which will work for some -- who don't care about losing their music if they stop paying -- will work, but many still want to own their music to use on computer, several devices etc when and as they want. Also, having software that only works on Windows is huge cause some of the most rabid music lovers are also Mac Lovers and that is basically flipping them the finger.

Also, the HD isn't higher than a Touch and I can put my video from my touch to my tv for only $50, rather than the Zune's $90 dock.

Will there be 3rd apps on the Zune or did I read right that the SDK is only for WinMo phones (another thing they got right, they are spelling out vast details about app rejection from the start, in response to the complaints about Apple. Pity about the fees to submit all releases for approval)

And the list goes on and on.

the Zune Pass was a nice idea until Pandora, Slacker, LastFM, Spotify and the other radio apps started getting popular
post #51 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpyviper View Post

There was great article by Prince McLean on AI Monday about how the Zune HD's virtues or advantages over the iPod touch really aren't what they seem, if you haven't read it go here

It was an interesting article, but they should have left it on Roughly Drafted where it belonged, not on AI. AI used to have a reputation of balanced, mostly unbiased (maybe lightly biased) reporting. But as more and more of the ultra-heavily-biased articles find their way over from Roughly Drafted, the quality of AI has gone down considerably.

Just my opinion...
post #52 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

They had OLED in 2006? They had radioHD in 2006? They had 720p HD playback in 2006?What planet's website have you been reading?

Try your best to process this.

It's based exactly on Apple's touchscreen, iPod Touch paradigm released over two years ago, with an attempt to distingtuish itself with a couple of features that are simply not enough in 2009, in a market that is already moving away from mediaplayers and toward total device convergence.

I'll repost my earlier comment:

What does the Zune HD offer?

A few applets - weather, a few games, etc. All were thrown and cobbled together by MS, who says it has no plans to open up the platform to developers. “The goal is not to be a fitness device or a restaurant-finding device. It’s to be a great music and video player.’’

Uh . . . actually no. The goal IS to be a fitness device or a restaurant-finding device, along with a great music and video player. Duh!! The goal IS to be a device that does everything and does it reasonably well. Why does MS constantly feel the need to move backward?

You want limited and closed? Look no further than the Zune HD. Makes Apple's rules and regs for the iPod look like open source.

But Apple already makes great music and video players, which also happen to be great pocket-size personal computers. Add in an ocean of iPod accessories, and you’d need a really good reason to buy any other brand. the Zune HD is a great product . . . three years ago.

Another cool feature. Ads-galore:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...e-roll-ads.ars

And as for 720p playback, the iPod Touch is apparently capable of that. Apple can flip the switch on that little feature any time. Apart from the HD radio (US-only) and the OLED screen, there's no real reason (certainly not enough given what Apple brings to the table) to own one of these things, unless you're a die-hard MS fan (not sure why, but I'll go with it) who had to suffer the shame of using an Apple product and the constant reminders of MS' failures outside the OS realm.

Sorry MS, but this baby is stillborn. Again.
post #53 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It was an interesting article, but they should have left it on Roughly Drafted where it belonged, not on AI. AI used to have a reputation of balanced, mostly unbiased (maybe lightly biased) reporting. But as more and more of the ultra-heavily-biased articles find their way over from Roughly Drafted, the quality of AI has gone down considerably.

Just my opinion...

When you're talking obvious and sad MS me-too attempts vs. Apple, there is always bias. It's not an equal situation.

AI seems to be doing their best to be honest here.
post #54 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

C'mon Teck, at least troll with some effectiveness.

Music pre-iTunes.

Now look at Music post-iTunes.

See any differences?

Pre iTunes: I could play on any device I wanted. Audiophile sound quality.

Post iTunes: Only playable on Apple products, no international music availble
domestically. Mediocre sound quality- no lossless.

Methinks your coffee's spiked with too much kool-aid today.
Any other questions?
post #55 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I'm surprised at how positive these reviews are for the most part in that if you sit down and think about it, there is not much here that actually works or looks better than anything we've seen before from other companies.

paid reviewers. old trick, but it's getting huge for a few years now. the editor does not care what they write as long as it is current and relevant. it's all handled by the ad agencies, they are in touch with these so called journalists (even big name writers are on the list of corruptible writers). not always money involved, most the times some kind of service.
post #56 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

True, but I suspect Apple would charge a similar price if they were to offer HD video output from the touch (which I hope they include in the next revision). The cost to implement the necessary digital output with HDMI handshake and such is probably a bit more than a simple analog output.

But I think such a feature would be great, not only for making your HD iTunes videos portable (movie night at a friend's out), but also for displaying your photos on an HDTV

Except for the "movie night at a friend's house", the AppleTV already does this. But yes, it would make for a cool feature on the iPod Touch and/or iPhone.
post #57 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

When you're talking obvious and sad MS me-too attempts vs. Apple, there is always bias. It's not an equal situation.

AI seems to be doing their best to be honest here.

Damn- you're out of control today!
post #58 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

They're hardly glowing. They acknowledge it, at best, as "good enough", which is barely enough when taking on the iPod Touch. It's widely ackowledged as a me-too attempt that would have been cool in 2006, but which doesn't cut it in 2009.

If you read the Gizmodo review (which AI has curiously refrained from quoting), you'd see that they call it the best PMP on the market.

Also, AI has (as can normally be expected), included all of the best negative lines from the reviews they quoted, and left out most of the positive lines.

Anyways, I'm interested in the new Zune since it seems microsoft is focusing on it being a media player, while apple seems to be moving towards a new gameboy/internet machine with the touch... I know everybody has laughed at the radio in the zune in the past, but now Apple seems to be playing catchup, and was beat to the punch with HD radio, as well as the Zune's ability to transmit 720p via a cable directly to the TV (which basically gives it better-than-iTV funtionality...)
post #59 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Except for the "movie night at a friend's house", the AppleTV already does this. But yes, it would make for a cool feature on the iPod Touch and/or iPhone.

What would be cool was if Apple, like Microsoft has done with the Zune at least, is continually try to improve it's lemon, the ATV.
post #60 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Glowing reviews.
Oh well, so much for AppleInsider's article bashing of it the day before it was released.

Glowing reviews of the device as a music and video player, which is what it aims to be. Not so much for the web browser and the few apps it has (long launch times, even for a calculator app, and ads prior to launch for the games). Not that I agree with AI posting clearly biased articles about a rival product.
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post #61 of 232
Poor Microsoft, they are the victim of others success
post #62 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

If you read the Gizmodo review (which AI has curiously refrained from quoting), you'd see that they call it the best PMP on the market.

Also, AI has (as can normally be expected), included all of the best negative lines from the reviews they quoted, and left out most of the positive lines.

Anyways, I'm interested in the new Zune since it seems microsoft is focusing on it being a media player, while apple seems to be moving towards a new gameboy/internet machine with the touch... I know everybody has laughed at the radio in the zune in the past, but now Apple seems to be playing catchup, and was beat to the punch with HD radio, as well as the Zune's ability to transmit 720p via a cable directly to the TV (which basically gives it better-than-iTV funtionality...)

You're wasting your time with that one.
post #63 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


And as for 720p playback, the iPod Touch is apparently capable of that. Apple can flip the switch on that little feature any time.

Yeah, all they have to do is send us a diagram showing us the HDMI output none of us has noticed yet on the touch.... Enjoy your kool-aid while you wait.
post #64 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Pre iTunes: I could play on any device I wanted. Audiophile sound quality.

Post iTunes: Only playable on Apple products, no international music availble
domestically. Mediocre sound quality- no lossless.

Methinks your coffee's spiked with too much kool-aid today.
Any other questions?

i was looking at the specs of some Android cell phones and they support AAC. i've seen a lot of devices support AAC
post #65 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What would be cool was if Apple, like Microsoft has done with the Zune at least, is continually try to improve it's lemon.

I guess regular iPod refreshes, the App Store, the iPod as a pocket computing device, iTunes and regular software improvements, more storage, more speed, the best mobile browser etc., aren't actual improvements.

Should we be impressed that MS improved on garbage? Isn't that supposed to be easy?

Apparently, not, because it still isn't enough.
post #66 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

as well as the Zune's ability to transmit 720p via a cable directly to the TV (which basically gives it better-than-iTV funtionality...)

The AppleTV does 720p already so which part is "better-than-iTV functionality"?
post #67 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

When you're talking obvious and sad MS me-too attempts vs. Apple, there is always bias. It's not an equal situation.

AI seems to be doing their best to be honest here.

Today's article was a good summary of the reviews. The Monday article is the one I was referring to as belonging on Roughtly Drafted, not AI. That article may have been mostly factually accurate. But even hard, cold facts can be presented in an extremely biased manner. I have a very hard time buying into what may, in fact, be true when it's presented by an author with a very obvious bias. It completely discredits the valid points they author may make. Guilt by association.
post #68 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Yeah, all they have to do is send us a diagram showing us the HDMI output none of us has noticed yet on the touch.... Enjoy your kool-aid while you wait.

Well, the ZuneHD technically doesn't have an HDMI output on it either. That requires an additional $90 option, albeit one that Apple doesn't yet offer.
post #69 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Today's article was a good summary of the reviews. The Monday article is the one I was referring to as belonging on Roughtly Drafted, not AI. That article may have been mostly factually accurate. But even hard, cold facts can be presented in an extremely biased manner. I have a very hard time buying into what may, in fact, be true when it's presented by an author with a very obvious bias. It completely discredits the valid points they author may make. Guilt by association.

Ah, ok. I suppose I can see the merit in that. Just one of the things you'll need to deal with on AI, though, for better or worse.
post #70 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Except for the "movie night at a friend's house", the AppleTV already does this. But yes, it would make for a cool feature on the iPod Touch and/or iPhone.

You want to unhook all the cables from you AppleTV and haul it over to your friend's house? Then take it back home and have to hook it all back up again?

You must have worked in the AV department in high shool.
post #71 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

The AppleTV does 720p already so which part is "better-than-iTV functionality"?

Try sticking an iTV in your pocket and taking it for a walk, and you might understand
post #72 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

The AppleTV does 720p already so which part is "better-than-iTV functionality"?

Which one can you walk around with comfortably?

I don't think comparing the two makes much sense.
post #73 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Yeah, all they have to do is send us a diagram showing us the HDMI output none of us has noticed yet on the touch.... Enjoy your kool-aid while you wait.

Notice how whenever something's not there in an Apple product - Fanboyz answer always is " Oh it exists , Apple only needs to turn on the switch, blah, blah , blah. ? They said the same thing yesterday discussing the new Tablet - whether it should get the existing iPhones OS as opossed to a modifed full SnowLeopard OS. 'Oh Muti Open apps exist- all Appple needs to do is turn it on!"
Next thing they'll be saying is about a removable battry- "Oh it exists . all Apple has to do is cut into the metal and install a latch!"
post #74 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

You want to unhook all the cables from you AppleTV and haul it over to your friend's house? Then take it back home and have to hook it all back up again?

You must have worked in the AV department in high shool.

All the cables? Try HDMI and power. Last time I checked, the Zune HD dock needs those as well.
post #75 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

If you read the Gizmodo review (which AI has curiously refrained from quoting), you'd see that they call it the best PMP on the market.

Also, AI has (as can normally be expected), included all of the best negative lines from the reviews they quoted, and left out most of the positive lines.

Anyways, I'm interested in the new Zune since it seems microsoft is focusing on it being a media player, while apple seems to be moving towards a new gameboy/internet machine with the touch... I know everybody has laughed at the radio in the zune in the past, but now Apple seems to be playing catchup, and was beat to the punch with HD radio, as well as the Zune's ability to transmit 720p via a cable directly to the TV (which basically gives it better-than-iTV funtionality...)

The iPod touch isn't included in that definition of PMP (see article called the Portable Media Player is Dead, Long Live.... the Portable Media Player). They were saying that the Zune is better than the Samsungs and Sony's of the world. The iPhone 3GS and iPod touch are fully capable of playing 720p video, maybe the Zune will encourage Apple to provide an update that enables it. Microsoft even set the cost of the dock nice and high at $90.

I for one don't want to watch an ad for the Kia Soul when I launch chess.
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post #76 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Which one can you walk around with comfortably?

I don't think comparing the two makes much sense.

I think it does. Basically, both "squirt" songs to and from other sources (although no iTV user would call it that), including computers (although the zune can also receive from other zunes), and both have HD outputs of the same quality, and the same codec support. The main difference is in convenience and size. When you think about it, the Zune has got to be an attractive option who are looking for both a media centre and a PMP, since it effectively does both. No Apple product does (yet).
post #77 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Try sticking an iTV in your pocket and taking it for a walk, and you might understand

I've got really big pockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Which one can you walk around with comfortably?

I don't think comparing the two makes much sense.

I'm not the one who made the original comparison. Just correcting someone who claimed that the AppleTV couldn't do 720p.
post #78 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Which one can you walk around with comfortably?

I don't think comparing the two makes much sense.

Dang - you'd wind up with second degree hand burns from the AppleTV!
post #79 of 232
...something to the effect of 'you have to pull it [the iPhone] out and look at it just to answer the phone'?

I've looked but can't seem to find the source of that quote but I know someone with a high position said that. If not Microsoft, then Dell?

Anyone remember that?
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post #80 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Dang - you'd wind up with second degree hand burns from the AppleTV!

Keeps me warm when I carry it over to my friends house.
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