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Music industry wants performance compensation from iTunes - Page 2

post #41 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:26am
I agree that if a TV show uses music, and compensates artists upon broadcast, that there should also be compensation when the show makes money in OTHER ways, such as iTunes.

The rest sounds like nonsense. Especially re the 30-second snippets that generate sales!

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post #42 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:28am
A single sale of a single track to a single buyer is not a broadcast.

A single preview of 1/5th of a song to a single interested potential buyer is not a broadcast.

This kind of BS money grab is what makes the pirates feel justified.
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post #43 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:34am
You can't draw blood from a stone.
Remember Apple doesn't make any money off music it sells on iTunes!
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post #44 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:34am
It's a waste of energy to even type this because of the obvious...ness of it all.

But those music industry morons are beyond greedy. I think they are children that will end up being cast to the wayside as history gobbles them up.
The fools. It would be soooooooo funny if down the line Apple gets into a position where they would demand that the music industry start paying Apple for those 30 second previews.
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post #45 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's called lobbying, and every group and industry does it. Although legal, it's basically asking the government to be your own protection racket.

There are times, and maybe those times are past when lobbying had a legitimate use to the average people, but we all know its all about money and or trading favors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

those who hate the government are the ones who fucked it up in the first place. they're also the ones who hate the government unless it suits them.

I don't recall saying I hate the government?

Quote "This really troubles me and it speaks to what has happened to real capitalism.
If you don't like something, get the Government to put there nose in it."

If that is what you get from this, well that just shows where you stand.

It might be a mute point.
I believe the government has a legitimate and real job, ie, National Defense, Protecting our Sovereignty, Protecting it citizens, you know the big things. - Most at which they have been failing at for over two decades. I don't see it as there job to jump in or get asked to be big mama in every little squabble.
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post #46 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:35am
The problem with much of media IP, is that different groups own different sets of rights. ASCAP/BMI/SESAC only have performance rights. So this flailing about seems redundant to us, but for them, it's trying to extend their only business into the technological age.

We saw something similar with the uproar over the Kindle Voice-to-Text feature and the companies who hold the audiobook rights. Sure, the publishers already negotiated once and didn't mind Amazon doing work to add value to their product. But the audiobook rights'-holders weren't party to those agreements and weren't too keen on something they saw as being a product that they paid for the exclusive right to sell.

So what seems like double dipping and back-tracking by a single group who already negotiated and signed a deal actually isn't. Not literally.

Sure, the record companies love the 30 second sample. It moves more product. They love the radio play too. But the groups that hold public performance rights aren't too happy to see someone else giving their product away.

Which really just underscores how nasty IP law has become, as technology has blurred and obviated so many of the distinctions that have been codified into law and business for generations.
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post #47 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

A single sale of a single track to a single buyer is not a broadcast.

A single preview of 1/5th of a song to a single interested potential buyer is not a broadcast.

This kind of BS money grab is what makes the pirates feel justified.

Speaking of Pirates- Man I just love the way you can make ringtones from those free 30 second snippets using Garage Band. I made a slew of them over the weekend. ENJOY!
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post #48 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Speaking of Pirates- Man I just love the way you can make ringtones from those free 30 second snippets using Garage Band. I made a slew of them over the weekend. ENJOY!


That is one of the features I wish apple would add,

Allow you to use any any song or section of a song on your iphone as a ringtone.
Same with alarms
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post #49 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:42am
The actual article is here http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-103...html?tag=mncol

It's not as crazy as the Appleinsider synopsis makes it seem. The goal is to make sure that as distribution moves away from TV to the internet, that artists continue to be fairly compensated.

You can't just say 'too bad you signed a crappy contract' because I can tell you that artists very rarely have the power to control those crappy contracts and are often forced to either sign them or simply not work at all.

The 30 second download thing is just a crazy distraction from what's really at stake here. It's not about punishing end users or trying bite the hand that feeds (Apple). This article is gas on flame but it's really missing the point and pissing people off for no reason.
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post #50 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

That is one of the features I wish apple would add,

Allow you to use any any song or section of a song on your iphone as a ringtone.
Same with alarms

You can my friend. Use GarageBand. When it opens, it gives you a choice- choose create ringtone. Playback any song you want in iTunes- record the section you want in GarageBand- trim it, name it, then export it to iTunes where it shows up under ringtones. Plus in your iPhone and voila- there it is!
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post #51 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

I'm wondering what the "music industry" thinks of the performances watched/listened to on airplanes. Are there performance fees tacked onto your $2 purchase of airplane headphones? Or what about those CD stores that let you walk up, put on a pair of headphones and listen to CDs to your heart's content.

I say let them have their money. If I can't preview before purchasing, I'll fire up my frostwire or whatever when I get home and preview it there...and download it for FREE while I'm at it.

Offering that 30 sound clip makes it a convenient more assuring purchase, especially when you're on the go. You know, sometimes greed will get you everything but most of the time it will get you nothing.

Don't give consumers a reason to go back to illegal file sharing over a free advertisment for your product. The Gonads!!!!
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post #52 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

That is one of the features I wish apple would add,

Allow you to use any any song or section of a song on your iphone as a ringtone.
Same with alarms

That is how ringtones first came to iTunes. You get a nifty slider so you can create ringtones of your choice and length. I find its easier to open up in Quicktime, trim to selection, save as M4A, change extension to M4R, drag into iTunes.
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post #53 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You can my friend. Use GarageBand. When it opens, it gives you a choice- choose create ringtone. Playback any song you want in iTunes- record the section you want in GarageBand- trim it, name it, then export it to iTunes where it shows up under ringtones. Plus in your iPhone and voila- there it is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is how ringtones first came to iTunes. You get a nifty slider so you can create ringtones of your choice and length. I find it’s easier to open up in Quicktime, trim to selection, save as M4A, change extension to M4R, drag into iTunes.


Ya, that is how I make them now.

I am more thinking it would be nice to do totally on the phone side.
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post #54 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

Ya, that is how I do now.

I am more thinking it would be nice to do totally on the phone side.

Ah, I thought you just meant for your iPhone, not actually on the iPhone. That would be cool, but I cant even see Get Info of songs like I can in iTunes or change any names while using the device so I think you are SoL for a long, long time on that front.
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post #55 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is how ringtones first came to iTunes. You get a nifty slider so you can create ringtones of your choice and length. I find its easier to open up in Quicktime, trim to selection, save as M4A, change extension to M4R, drag into iTunes.

Off topic - how do you trim in the new Quicktime? I'm so used to the old mini markers where it was highlighted wherever you moved them,what was to be trim or copied. I can't figure it out with the new QT- especially trimming in the middle of the file.
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post #56 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ah, I thought you just meant for your iPhone, not actually on the iPhone. That would be cool, but I cant even see Get Info of songs like I can in iTunes or change any names while using the device so I think you are SoL for a long, long time on that front.

Maybe that's something too that actually exists but Apple hasn't yet turned on?
And people wonder why I don't want that OS on my new iTab?
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post #57 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Off topic - how do you trim in the new Quicktime? I'm so used to the old mini markers where it was highlighted wherever you moved them,what was to be trim or copied. I can't figure it out with the new QT- especially trimming in the middle of the file.

You go Edit » Trim or click the button in the player that gives you the Trim option. Its a nice setup.
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post #58 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:55am
I'd like my money back, for the songs I bought that I no longer listen to.
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post #59 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:55am
"Performance Compensation from iTunes", so if a song from a particular group is selling really well, what, they want iTunes to pay more? But what happens if the "b side" of that song from that same group is also hosted on iTunes and has dismal sales, does that mean iTunes can ask for it's money for "warehousing on it's server" a lousy song and thus iTunes deserves performance compensation from the group?

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post #60 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:58am
"If you watch a TV show on broadcast, cable or satellite TV there is a performance fee collected," David Israelite, president and CEO of the National Music Publishers Association, told CNet. "But if that same TV show is downloaded over iTunes, there's not. We're arguing that the law needs to be clarified that regardless of the method by which a consumer watches the show there is a performance right."

but if i buy cd and listen to it 150 times on my stereo, then they still only get paid once.
If i rent/buy a DVD and watch it 150 times at home they only get paid once.

How the hell can they think it should be different for itunes?

the law already makes a difference between broadcast and purchase. why do they need it to be clarified further?

they wont be happy until everyone is torrenting all their stuff.
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post #61 of 119
9/17/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

You're all focusing on the 30-second samples, but the case also encompasses full downloads. The 30 second samples are long enough to be included in, for example, a television advertisement.

Are you suggesting that advertising professionals are recording 30-second samples of songs from iTunes and using them in commercials? That's ridiculous. If you knew anything about the process of buying the rights for music to put into commercials you'd laugh at the suggestion.
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post #62 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

I don't recall saying I hate the government?

Quote "This really troubles me and it speaks to what has happened to real capitalism.
If you don't like something, get the Government to put there nose in it."

If that is what you get from this, well that just shows where you stand.

That's just the attitude you get from being brainwashed by watching MSNBC!

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post #63 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

It's a waste of energy to even type this because of the obvious...ness of it all.
But those music industry morons are beyond greedy.

I suspect it's underemployed attorneys--the bane of all evil--who are the real problem here. They probably agreed to take the job on contingency, with the hopes of getting a percentage of any increase in royalties. The music industry groups probably said, "sure, if you wanna do that, then go ahead, see what you can do."
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post #64 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You go Edit » Trim or click the button in the player that gives you the Trim option. It’s a nice setup.

Isn't that after you select what part to trim? But how do you select what's to be trimmed?
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post #65 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Royalties for your own ads? Those 30 sec. free samples are ADVERTISING for your work, songwriters. You want Apple to pay for the privilege of increasing sales of your work? How stupid are you?

Apple could make this easy, offering the artist the opportunity of playing the 30 second add. They could even label the check box "Deselect to remove sales".
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post #66 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:09pm
They might as well just lobby congress to extract a fee for every child born on Earth. After all, those children are certainly going to be downloading free music and videos (instead of being gouged by greedy executives).

Their predicament is similar to the effects of high taxation. The higher you go, the more you incentivize cheating. I pay for my music and videos, but the generations to come will require a new, more honest paradigm. They are not going to pay for a crappy album with one good song on it.

I see their efforts as pure, naked greed. May the executives enjoy the backlash for their shortsighted and reckless behavior.
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post #67 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

I see those 30 second snippets as free advertising. How many of the songs have I purchased been because of the 30 second snippet? Maybe 1/2 to 3/4.

I swear that greed rules these people.

I would go even further and say that without the snippets I wouldn't be buying anything at all.

As an album purchaser (something the music industry is still trying to promote in their customers), I often hear about it only from a song I hear at someones house or on the TV. Then I go to iTunes and listen to al the samples on the album. If there are more "hits" than "misses" I take a chance and buy the album.

There is no way at all that I would buy an album on iTunes if I can't listen to the snippets first. that's just ridiculous.

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post #68 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium View Post

Are you suggesting that advertising professionals are recording 30-second samples of songs from iTunes and using them in commercials? That's ridiculous. If you knew anything about the process of buying the rights for music to put into commercials you'd laugh at the suggestion.

Everyone knows Charlie Harper rights them.
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post #69 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartf View Post

The quality of the music I buy on line is lower than that of 20 years ago
....
Someone is making more money somewhere and supposedly it isn't the artist!

QFT!

I still listen to CDs on a quality stereo system.

Mechanical distribution rights are what Apple pays to record labels today I believe (the labels = copyright holders; music artists surrender the copyrights to their recorded performances I believe), and that 30 second preview, well, IMHO that should be included with the mechanical distribution rights fee.
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post #70 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ah, I thought you just meant for your iPhone, not actually on the iPhone. That would be cool, but I cant even see Get Info of songs like I can in iTunes or change any names while using the device so I think you are SoL for a long, long time on that front.

Im sure your correct, with the way the record companies are talking I bet they would want a fee for that too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

That's just the attitude you get from being brainwashed by watching MSNBC!

Ya... I don't watch MSNBC....to liberal.
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post #71 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

You're all focusing on the 30-second samples, but the case also encompasses full downloads. The 30 second samples are long enough to be included in, for example, a television advertisement.

This also gets back to the fact that Apple needs the music providers just as much, or more than the music providers need Apple.

I think the David Israelite mis-stated the facts for sensationalism. It very is possible I am incorrect but I doubt these deals could be made without royalties being paid as they would be for physical CD's and DVD's definitely payout royalties. My wife negotiates licensing on Cd's and Movies for a living and I've never heard anything about Apple not paying royalties. I mean really they sell and stream movies, songs and TV but don't pay royalties? I think SAG, WGA, etc etc would have a fit if royalties weren't being paid and never would have cut a deal with Apple to begin with. His statement sounds more like lawyer fud to me.

Personally I don't think this will go anywhere. I agree with everyone else when they say the clips are clearly advertisements to entice someone to purchase and youtube is a much bigger problem with pertinent violations.
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post #72 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:29pm
i listened to a song the other day at my friend's house. do they want a performance fee for that? i was on the john at the time, but still ...
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post #73 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium View Post

... That's ridiculous. If you knew anything about the process of buying the rights for music to put into commercials you'd laugh at the suggestion.

Word!
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post #74 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

This really troubles me and it speaks to what has happened to real capitalism.

If you don't like something, get the Government to put there nose in it.

The Government wrote the laws to give copyrights merit so spare me the Ayn Rand fear.
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post #75 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:33pm
Let me put my 2¢ in the "THIS IS TOTAL BULLSH*T" ring.
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post #76 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Government wrote the laws to give copyrights merit so spare me the Ayn Rand fear.


This isn't about copyrights.

And even if it was, we have seen what a joke those have become.
I.E. Texas Law Suits.
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post #77 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A few year from now the music industry will be asking for royalties if you hum or whistle a popular song to yourself.

Already, if your actors hum or whistle in a movie, or a broadcast of some sort you may need to consult your lawyers first. :-(
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post #78 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:43pm
Is this the same music industry that brings their artists to award shows in downtown NYC on white horses? (literally...taylor swift came with white horses)

and theyre complaining about a company that makes little to nothing on a song by song basis selling their product?

performance fee? If you didnt offer 30 second clips, how could apple try to introduce you to new music with the genius feature which tries to actively select music that its users might enjoy based on their previous purchases? Should we be buying on blind faith?

why are they going after the only successful entity to bring the old music industry into the modern internet world?
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post #79 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:46pm
Looks like they are on a tyrade. LOL Kids should probably learn the rules but again why the micromanagement. Can't parents take car of this?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...curriculum.ars
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post #80 of 119
9/17/09 at 12:48pm
I knew it would be only a matter of time that these fucking idiots from the music and film industries would want to take another (unjust and undeserved) bite out of Apple.

Without Apple and Jobs these fools would be panhandling on the streets since everyone would be torrenting away music/Tv/ film instead of paying for it.

iTunes is already expensive enough; any more increases in fees and many people would be through with it and go back to getting it for free.
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