Roger Ebert adds to health care debate on iPhone, Mac use - Page 3

Thank you for the informative technology articles.... let's please leave the politics out of it.

I don't care to have your opinion regarding Obama's health care plan not-so-subtly thrust in my face when I read your otherwise very well-written and well-rounded posts. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if I were writing for this site and you disagreed with me.

Yikes. Where do you get your facts? For starters, do you know that India had more than 150 medical colleges? Where do you think most of the Indian doctors in the US, UK, Australia, and the Middle East got their basic medical training? Hint: Not the US or the UK.

Moreover, comparing the US (per capita income: $47,000) health care system to the Indian (per capita income: $1200) health care system is comparing apples and oranges. Valid comparisons would be between countries of (broadly) similar income levels. There, the US does not do well.

See, for instance, the ranking on health care outcomes (from WHO):
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

or, ranking of "preventable" deaths:
http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/pr...2003_2008.html

or, if you'd like to see what the evidence looks like item-by-item:
http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2009/en/index.html

We already have by looking at everything the government is currently in charge of; social security, medicare, post office, Senate's cafeteria, department of motor vehicles, public education, the VA hospitals, tax code, etc... All failures.

I know this is probably going offend most of you with socialized healthcare but do you honestly think your program offers or invents more life saving techniques and cures than America's current system? Sorry, I lived the government system when I was in the military and I am thankful I can go to a free market system now that I'm out.

Yes, there are some changes that need to be made, i.e. open competition between insurance companies is a biggie, there is nothing that requires government to step in and take it over from the ground up. You accuse us of being closed minded, but if you think a government system addresses the patient's needs better than what we have, your the one living life with blinders on.

when you quote someone make sure you do not just take the part, YOU want and start a rant, which has nothing to do with what I was addressing,I was not comparing, you look damn silly, I was showing that you can not compare due to the standard of income. SO buddy, stop misquoting me, it not nice and actually little silly!!

My orginal post below:

Stop name calling and get your facts right with concern to comparing healthcare systems with US. Firstly not US citizen, but lived there for over 5 years. Secondly lived in Asia-Pacific for over 7 years off and on.
The cost of living, wages etc are completely different to US, so you going to Thailand earning a US wage and spending your US dollars, it would seem much cheaper. To average Thai person their cost of Healthcare is still high in their country.

I can say the same thing about India, with concern to healthcare, majority of physicians have been trained in USA or UK. The standard of care in private/big public hospitals is very good and the cost is much lower than western countries.

Now If I tell you that only 10-20% of the country can afford such level of healthcare that I have access to, then you understand that in population of 1,147,995,904.

So before you start comparing Thailand's healthcare with USA, just remember what you are comparing, since poor Thai people are NOT getting a good deal, but hey as long as you are happy thats great.


Read people's post before properly before you reply, okay!
Yes I do know that India has more than 150 medical colleges, do you know that over 85% of the consultants and senior physicians get trained in US/UK. They initial training is in India, but they complete their training in US/UK. Majority of consultants/surgeons are trained in US/UK. My statement is still correct.
Now to make your life easier, so you don't misquote people, I was stating that the standard of care in India is very good, but only 10-20% of people can actually afford the costs. To USA the costs are low, but for Indian there are high.


P.S. READ the comments from other their understood my post

[CENTER]YO ROGER EBERT I KNOW YOU GOT THROAT CANCER
AND ALL—IMMA LET YOU FINISH—BUT AUTOTUNERS
THE BEST ELECTRONIC VOICEOVERS THIS YEAR.

[/CENTER]

As a great nephew of one of the people who helped found the GOP and later when on to become Chief justice (Morrison Remick Waite) I would say Roosevelt (Teddy) was that last true example of the ideals Lincoln believed in. Ever since McCarthy and his Red scare the GOP has pulled out the Socialism/Communism card so many freaking times you wonder if that is the only card in their deck.

There is one factor in medical equipment that needs to be understood, and that is the costs of getting someone established on it, support in addressing problems and time to ensure they are compliant.

I have sleep apnea (OSA) and started on a cpap machine in 1998 as it is the gold standard. I was lucky in that I had no problems going onto treatment, but often the respiratory therapist has to work with the patient many times to get a "rig" that will ensure compliance.

Since that time I have purchased 2 autopaps - avoiding costly sleep studies and get all my supplies off of the web. But you need to be a compliant and an informed patient before that's a viable option.

So not all providers are "bad". They charge to cover their costs and profit margins for the product they sell. When new products come out (like my autopaps) they also have to adjust to markets - just like any other business.

[QUOTE=Neruda;1485528]Way to jump to conclusions. What makes you think that I was/was not opposed to the government bailouts (I made no mention of this)? I was against it (for similar reasons). But at least there is a better chance that government will get its money back from the TARP bailouts.[/QUOTE

Sure, with $$$$ that are worth a lot less (or should I just say worthless) than they are now, thanks to the relentless printing of money needed to support bailouts.

Did we get our money back from any other big bailout in history .. isn't this Chrysler's second visit to the corporate welfare line? \

You and me may be the only two people in this entire thread that get the original story.

Well done.

I think you just put people on the defensive when you started off by suggesting that functional universal healthcare requires socialism. That's a big jump that will always rub supporters the wrong way.

Yea, well, just more proof of why government doesn't work.
The solution is LESS GOVERNMENT, just ask Dr. and Congressman Ron Paul...

Check out http://campaignforliberty.com and http://lp.org

Nice to see another advocate for liberty here.

[QUOTE=TBell;1485373
A single payer system is the way to go. People shouldn't have to worry about health care. It should be a right. Society would be much better off.[/QUOTE]

While I agree with your statement, I do think that we need to acknowledge that we need to pay for it and that may include tax money. We also need to acknowledge that we already pay for the health care of others. Costs for doctors/hospitals go up because they end up treating those with no $$$ and they pass the cost on to us through insurance companies. The costs are just hidden. I would rather that the costs be out in the open so that we understand them better.

We need a lot of change . Including incentives for behavior that improves health and disincentives for bad behaviors.

The costs of treating the uninsured aren't passed along simply in the form of higher insurance premiums for the insured, they are also passed along in the form of taxes. We do pay for the uninsured, but in the most massively inefficient way possible. If you're for fixing that, then you're obviously opposed to liberty though, so I can see where that's a problem.

Hey, buddy, I quoted exactly one unsubstantiated statement of yours -- see below;


Now, I am compelled to call you out on another ridiculous assertion:


Provide a credible cite for that claim, and I'll apologize to you. Otherwise, stick to facts that you can back up.

Congrats on a truly relevant and topical article that steps partially outside the "Apple" sphere of things, but not too far. This is the best AI article I've seen in months, if not years.

I only hope that AI readers don't confuse this Medicare problem with what Gov't insurance *should* be. Stuff like this has to be ironed out before we can make it work right.

>Inventing ghost stories to scare the slow brained does no one any good at all
,everyone should be insured with a least amount of restrictions

Medicare does a very good job helping the sick and poor
but as this article shows it is not very flexible or wise.

The waste and graft in medicare is staggering.

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i fixed all the holes

This is a complex issue. The first part of the article points out a huge spending flaw in Medicare. Doesn't look very well run. But then we are to fall behind and cheer a Medicare on steroids...bigger, more complex, and more expensive than any entitlement program in history.

Obama ironically tries to promote the new health care plan by pointing out that there are 100s of billions of spending abuses and wasteful practices in the existing version. If we merely realize some of those savings, we are nearly there.

Why aren't we doing this now? Why don't we do this first?

There are a lot of legitimate questions and concerns to be voiced without demonizing each side.

My favorite part of the article is when it points out that Apple, a private company that was honed via intense competition, offers a far better, less expensive solution.

Maybe the free market, competition and capitalism are on to something?

We need reform. This issue is very complex. Both sides are leaving huge holes in the debate. Both sides have interests to protect. Whatever we end up with, we should always strive to have as small as govt. as possible that performs the functions asked of it. And taxes should be as low as possible to pay for it.

Oh, come on!

I really doubt Americans care about the bottom lines of insurance companies. We've been gouged by them for decades, and that isn't going to stop if they can't sell their overpriced health insurance policies. Furthermore, there are plenty of other opportunities for them to make money.

The average person just wants coverage at an affordable price. We are the only developed country to fail at this, plus we are #37 in health care quality.

I would agree with you that congress is a wasteland of lobbyist-controlled flesh. But that doesn't mean that we can't have a decent public health insurance option provided by the feds.

And don't give me this "private sector can do it better" nonsense. We've seen how the unregulated financial sector pissed away investment capital. We've seen how the biggest US insurer (AIG) took their clients premiums and threw them away on bad investments.

Let's not forget that that number 1 reason health care costs are so expensive in the US is because of the huge liability issues that every doctor, hospital, clinics, and other health provider entities have to manage. The insurance companies PROFIT from all those malpractice policies, then profit again from the health insurance policies that have to pay for the inflated costs.

So, mourn not for the insurance companies. They don't care about you, they only care about the excessive profits they derive from the US health care system.

Stats are funny things. Take out car accidents and murder and we score better on longevity. If we are #37 in health care, one must wonder why Steve Jobs received his transplant right here in America. My guess is we are teh most innovative and advanced and we need to keep these qualities, whatever style of health care program we implement via reform.

well I live in india, I am a very senior person in this company...www.indipharm.com and if you look at the site, my two scientific advisors both probably our top consultants in their field and provided me the information, when I initially moved to Mumbai, for our marketing campaign slides.

OH well, you did not apologize for initial quote and slicing one statement from entire quote and now you look silly and trying to redeem yourself. I do not get into childish games of calling people out. I prefer to let people put there opinion and discuss as normal person would do in face to face situation.

My point was clear You can not compare USA Healthcare system with Thailand or India.

Sure, stats can be finessed every which way, including the way you did it here.

One thing is for sure: Despite being #1 in spending in both absolute dollars and as percent GDP, the US is most certainly not #1 in outcomes. And, arguably, some recognition that we may have something to learn from other advanced countries (which, in turn requires some humility) may not be such a bad thing.

Your top 'consultants'? Perhaps you could ask them for the cites?

(Medical 'marketing campaign slides' do have to back up their statistical claims, you know; at least they do in the US).

Not sure what is your motive, but you seem to have lost the plot, as you said you called me out on 'comparing US healthcare with India', which was very much opposite of what I was doing. Now you calling me out on another statement of mine, simply because you can not apologize for initial conduct of your reply to a 'sliced' statement that could be taken out of context.

Anyway India is one of the hot spots for 'Medical Tourism', i.e, people coming to India to obatin the same quality of treatment for about 10-12 times cheaper then US. Unfortunately this behviour does not help the average Indian person, who can not afford healthcare. I would say probably 80% of the healthcare in India is privately funded with state/federal providing probably at most 10-20%.

Anyway this will give you more accurate overview of Indian Healthcare market and what probably going to happen in future.

http://www.pwc.com/en_GX/gx/healthca...c-in-india.pdf

Put down the crack pipe. Private Insurance companies are snorting > $100 Billion as being the insurance backers for Medicare. The Government, under Bush 2.0, didn't budget for this last Medicare package.

I can't wait to attend the next one... My sign read, "Hey MSNBC dolts, I'm not hatin' on a Black man. I'm luv'in on the Red, White and Blue!

The next event will be held shortly after the government goes against the polling that shows the wishes of the American people and ram through a piece of cr@p legislation regardless of what the majority wants when it comes to a health care bill... that's when the next event will start to be organized...

Personally, and there are a lot of us out there, we don't trust anything coming from the government. PERIOD. And it's not a democrat thing and it's not an Obama thing. IT'S A PAST GOVERNMENT ACTIONS THING.

And when I speak of "government", I'm talking about the House of Representative, the Senate, and the Executive Branch and both political parties...

The government has done very little to sway me that things will be different this time!

I've seen "Bridges to Nowhere" from the past administration, to the government adding 3 more than requested by the Air Force of G5 Corporate Jets for Congress to use for travels because we as taxpayers, we can afford for our "representatives" ability to just spend, spend, spend!

The government couldn't run the House Bank or the House Post Office without scandal. They couldn't run the cafeteria and had to have "professionals" take over. They recently opened a visitors center that was over budget and past due of its opening day.

We had a senator say that they should fix Social Security like they did when they fixed it ten years ago. Think about that for a second... If it was "fixed" ten years ago, then why does it need fixing now?! Probably because it was never fixed?!

We have the House Leader who likes protesters when they "agitate" George Bush at his home in Crawford concerning the Iraq war, but when others gather to "agitate" the democrats and Obama and health care, she labels us 'Un-American' and a mob! And then decries the level of rhetoric and possibility of violence, when she started the name calling! A hell of a nerve. Especially when the violence thus far has been from astro turfing Obama SEIU union goons attacking a vendor at a protest and at another protest a Pro-Obama supporter bites off the finger of an elderly man exercising his Constitutional rights.

We have Obama saying in a speech that after the August recess, anyone wishing clarification of "his plan", that he will go over it "line by line". It's on video! When several republican lawmakers sent him a letter taking him up on his offer, guess what... No return phone calls to set up a time, no letter, no e-mail, no text message from the Obama "Blackberry One"... zip, nada, nothing, the big goose egg... If he doesn't reply soon, maybe it is time to bring back the phrase, "You Lie"! Of course like so many other things, Obama will deny what one can see coming from his mouth that is video taped for all of posterity and Obama will simply say that was then, this is now, my positions have evolved... from several weeks ago???

And those that talk about the "civilized countries" that have government health insurance, I would like to know how much is their citizenry taxed for that honor and also, how much does their country spend in relation to their GDP regarding worldwide commitments when it comes to their military? Or maybe the next major tsunami that affects the peoples of 10 or 11 countries, God forbid, we'll let someone else take all the food, medicines and supplies donated and let them drop it off via military ships and air drops

I'm not in disagreement that health care needs reform but not some 1100 page babble filled with lawyer speak that like Medicare, will require the purchase of the $8000 computer or the $500 wheelchair van because it is authorized!

Glad those with problems are finding aid with the iPhone and "there's an app for that" app store.

Yes, perhaps starting with the other 17 rated of higher standard by the WHO (admittedly sometime ago and out of date).

>> Others fear that Obama's plans to reform health care will result in Medicare being taken over by the government, unaware that Medicare itself is a single payer, government-run healthcare program and has been since 1965.

No, others fear that the Obama's plans to reform health care will result in Medicare taking over the entire country, aware that Medicare itself is a, government-run healthcare program and has been since 1965.

Have you been to a Thai hospital? Damn things are like freaking hotels.


The capital costs of a modern medical institution remains the same. That the doctors may make less isn't likely the deciding factor in medical costs but rather the insurance overhead. Dunno what happens in a malpractice case in Thailand.

So what? The point is that medical care can be much less expensive. If you can't show that the primary cause of high US healthcare costs is medical staff salary then the cost of healthcare in Thailand and India are directly applicable to the assertion that health care costs are too high in the US and the costs of living in Thailand and India don't much matter in this equation.

What? Are you guys using a cheaper brand of MRI than we do? IV drip lines magically take less plastic in India?

Actaully India/ Thailand use the same brand, since I visit hospitals on a weekly basis, same for medication even the brand medication is cheaper. The pharmaceuticals know there can not sell the same price in India as USA. That is known fact.

Fortunately the same MRI brand you found in USA, you will found in India. The cost of MRI will be much cheaper in India.

If I remember it was Merck or Pfizer who just launched a diabetes product in India that was about 40-50% cheaper then USA price.

If you read the PWC report, it explains all you need to know with concern to India anyway.

I been to Thai hospital, probably many more times, then you have, since I visited Thai for business (Pharmaceuticals) for 5 yrs every 2 weeks. The cost of healthcare for USA person in Thailand is low, but average Thai person or Indian person can not found that standard of care.

Agree Healthcare can be cheaper in USA, but you can't compare Thailand with USA, since many factors make them different.

From my industry a CRA costs on average $57,000 for CRA I http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...D14000020.html

in India a CRA costs 4-6 lakts, which is roughly USD8-12,000. Which is similar lower costs for Indian doctor's salaries.

In the morning when a country awakes it must say to itself
should a sick person afllicted with <<fill i blank >> have a united field trying to cure said sck person .
In the usa 40 % cannot get help of any kind .
Yet we spend trillions on machines of war and death .
yet in cuba 100 percent get 100 percent help
yes cuba's heath help is not so great
but it is equal
you choose
peace dudes

9

well said

cheers

i once saw a video of millions of gallons of price support milk being dumped in a river .

i cried ,

peace

9

I don't fear that at all. I look forward to it, actually.

Its truly a shame that discussions as intellectually supported and vigorously debated, using world facts can not take place in a "free" country when attempts are made to explore the truth in Washington. Even people like Ron Paul or Ron Widen get no press coverage or their questions are are ignored by the execs or members of various committees when these valuable, pointed questions are asked. For those of us who spend time reading and researching, it is so obvious that the common person just gets a controlled snapshot from TV. They are more interested in 2 and 1/2 men, than in Charlie Sheen's letter to Obama! Knowledge is power, yet the average America citizen chooses to remain powerless while the true beneficiaries of health insurance, the banking system and the US political system move closer to destroying America and the free world! Thus gaining selfish and limited control of a world advanced by education and a free market system of incentive and reward. The results would no doubt stagger any forward movement and end up leaving a deteriorating planet consisting of Lords and Commoners, as in the Dark Ages!

I have no idea what this means. I have to suppose that it's an effort to bury an important issue under a heap of ideological rhetoric. Sorry, but I think you are too late. It's already been done.