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Microsoft hires Apple Store staff; potential employee walk-out - Page 2

post #41 of 121
I live less than 1 mile from the Alderwood Mall Apple store in question. Ive been in numerous times and have always received excellent service. They obviously are doing a great job keeping this under wraps. I have seen no plans for a MS store in the vicinity. We are about 20 minutes from MS main campus in Redmond. I actually know a few MS employess who have iphones. Not sure what this is all about.
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by radwansk View Post

I'm always amazed by how mistreated unskilled workers in retail stores make themselves out to be. And like this walkout is going to make Apple take notice of your amazing capabilities. As if they can't find somebody else to slide a credit card through a machine at the ipod stand. The only thing this walkout would prove is the ignorance of youth. Don't kid yourself. There is a long line of people who'd be willing to replace you. And an even longer line at the unemployment office.

Why the hostility? You know NOTHING about this yet you generalize on the side of management. Why? Why do you think the 'unskilled workers' in the Apple stores don't have a case? Personally I don't have a clue what lies behind this but usually people only react when there is something to react against. They don't do it just for the hell of it or out of jealousy. These people are the customer facing side of Apple and as such they are pretty valuable.
post #43 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think that evokes images of the comic strip guru, sitting on a high mountain, with harried travelers begging for solutions to their computer problems.

Yeah. Yet another profound idea from India trivialized by Western corporations to make a buck.. (add it to karma, yoga, avatar.....). \
post #44 of 121
Apple should work with one of their store managers to "jump ship" and become a mole for Apple in the Microsoft Store.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #45 of 121
Amazing how a company that owns the market 95% of the planet, is so obsessed with beating Apple to the ground.
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Sleazy yes, but a valid business tactic. They are trying to figure out what makes the Apple Store tick and to gain some Apple talent. Unfortunately, I see this as trying to plug an A/C device into a D/C power source. They come from two different cultures. The shock may kill them

I find this whole MS store an odd curiosity. MS itself doesn't make PC's. They sell software, and the Zune. That's it. Apple on the other hand, is more hardware centric, with a smattering of software thrown in. The two don't directly compete, except on the OS front, which happens to be tied to Apple's hardware. It will be interesting to see how these stores fare.

As to the Apple Store walkout, I would be very curious to see what the issue was at this store. I tried a few of the links but the content was removed at the posters request for some reason.

I agree. My experience over the years has been that you can show others how to implement your own winning business practices. What's interesting is that only a VERY small percentage of what is shared is ever put into practice. A permanent change of business culture, from the top down, is very difficult for most to implement. A new vision statement is useless without commitment and buy-in.

Bill
post #47 of 121
The Apple store treats it's employees like crap and do nothing to fix it. Their internal surveys of how the employees feel do nothing and HR never contacted me about my complaints after I requested that they do so. The manager's idea of "team building" it more like high school clique building. I saw a unified team that all had fun together take a huge downhill turn and the managers get praised for it. Poor performance is rewarded if it's performed with a smile and I have outright been told that if the manager of your team doesn't like you the customer's opinion doesn't matter. Outright LIED to about receiving a raise, outright LIED to about receiving a promotion. My new title was given to someone from outside the store to perform a DIFFERENT TASK so THEY could receive more money.

Anyone from Apple Smith Haven should know who I am by now. I hope someone finally stands up for themselves and all the managers get dumped. The useless general manager is the worst offender. He is never around unless he is stealing talent and resources from one store in favor of his other. They are useless and they should know it.

Obviously I'm angry and people will think I'm full of crap or it was my own fault. I only still care because I have friends there still being mistreated.
post #48 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Because you don't actually want to do a walkout but you need to do something to get upper management's attention.

If I had to guess, I'd say the manager there is out of line in some way but very good at laying down a snow job on the HR people who looked into it. Employees aren't going to threaten a walkout unless there's a major problem, so something is seriously wrong at this particular store. Unless, of course, they all got hired by Microsoft who put them up to the walkout thing.

Agreed. But I still wonder if this rumor is the work of a single disgruntled employee who is talking up that the whole store is going to walk out, or if there is universal unrest amongst the employees at that store? If the entire store is indeed planning on walking out, I would assume that there are several compaints about the manager to HR making it difficult to ignore the situation as the story implies HR did. And in that case, if HR really was ignoring such a large number complaints, I wouldn't be waiting two weeks expecting anything to change between now and then.

So a possibility is that the two weeks was because they are bluffing. Maybe they don't really have a widespread problem and people aren't really willing to walk out en masse.

Of course, I'm not saying either way since we really don't have much detail to go on.
post #49 of 121
If the folk at apple store feel they have to walk out this will of course reflect bad on apple. I wouldn't put it past ms or any other that they might be the instigator of such an action. It's very likely as there's always a valid or shady instigator. That said they should do what they have to do to get notice from apple and force managers to clean up their act.


As for ms luring away apple employes. Well if anyone is stupid enough to take the bait. Please remember folk, ms always promise. Actually they are world reknowned for their promises. What they are not known for is gor delivering on these promises.

It won't be much of an offer if in less than a years time you are out of a job because all ms outlets are closed.
post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Agreed. But I still wonder if this rumor is the work of a single disgruntled employee who is talking up that the whole store is going to walk out, or if there is universal unrest amongst the employees at that store? If the entire store is indeed planning on walking out, I would assume that there are several compaints about the manager to HR making it difficult to ignore the situation as the story implies HR did. And in that case, if HR really was ignoring such a large number complaints, I wouldn't be waiting two weeks expecting anything to change between now and then.

So a possibility is that the two weeks was because they are bluffing. Maybe they don't really have a widespread problem and people aren't really willing to walk out en masse.

Of course, I'm not saying either way since we really don't have much detail to go on.

It would be pretty funny to see the employees walk out and pull off their t-shirts and they're wearing Microsoft shirts underneath and they all walk straight into the MS store and clock in. And Ballmer is standing there sweating and eating a churro.
post #51 of 121
I can see it now, the Microsoft Recruiter meets with an Apple Store Employee and makes their pitch to come work for them. The Recruiter concludes the meeting by offering his/her business card and says, "When you are ready to compromise, give us a call".
post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Amazing how a company that owns the market 95% of the planet, is so obsessed with beating Apple to the ground.

they're not obsessed with beating them to the ground

all of their success, they have apple to thank for

windows is a bad copy of os 9

everything they've been successful / attempted to do has had to do with them stealing from apple...they are their r & d department

they are so rich, but still hate themselves for being such pathetic parasites
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by radwansk View Post

I'm always amazed by how mistreated unskilled workers in retail stores make themselves out to be. And like this walkout is going to make Apple take notice of your amazing capabilities. As if they can't find somebody else to slide a credit card through a machine at the ipod stand. The only thing this walkout would prove is the ignorance of youth. Don't kid yourself. There is a long line of people who'd be willing to replace you. And an even longer line at the unemployment office.

Don't forget that the apple store doesn't just staff stupid kids who swipe credit cards. They also staff creatives who work "real" jobs as designers, video, and audio editors... They don't have stupid kids teaching their "pro apps" to professionals. They also tease employees like this with the promise of ARC (a move from Apple Retail to Corporate), which is always roadblocked.
post #54 of 121
Some of us actually want a job, too bad it isnt anywhere in my area.
I was invited to an apple hiring seminar, and just over hearing some of the other people there, they were looking for second jobs, or to replace their first job. Greedy people! I dont even have a job and most of them already had one... jerks
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinkn00be View Post

Some of us actually want a job, too bad it isnt anywhere in my area.
I was invited to an apple hiring seminar, and just over hearing some of the other people there, they were looking for second jobs, or to replace their first job. Greedy people! I dont even have a job and most of them already had one... jerks

You do realize that that's exactly the argument made against those opposing child labor in Asia, right? They should be grateful to have anything, and if they don't like it, there are kids in other countries who'll do it even cheaper.
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

How so? Like when Apple hired away that Papermaster guy from IBM?

I think that's a bit different from this situation. One may have to hire away from other companies when dealing with that level of expertise, but clerks are clerks are clerks. There is no reason (other than the PR one) to hire clerks who formerly worked at Apple stores.

It's way too early to say what's even happening in the "walk-out" scenario, but it's true that not all Apple stores are manned by angelic do-gooders and some of the "managers" are just horrible, so it's not beyond the pale that their complaints could be real.

Also, anyone with management experience will tell you that sometimes you have to support your employees even when they are wrong if you want to have a good team. My local store has three "sub-managers" and one top manager to manage them, (even though they are all called "store manager"). At least one of the "sub-managers" is an awful, mean-spirited lazy piece of work as I can say from personal experience, but her "manager" defended her against some very serious complaints all the same.

It's possible that the store in question has some bad managers that Apple is still supporting for all the standard PR reasons. Perhaps giving them enough rope to hang themselves later. You have to be careful because it's exactly those kind of "full-of-themselves" low-level mangers who tend to sue the company for false dismissal later.
post #57 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinkn00be View Post

Some of us actually want a job, too bad it isnt anywhere in my area.
I was invited to an apple hiring seminar, and just over hearing some of the other people there, they were looking for second jobs, or to replace their first job. Greedy people! I dont even have a job and most of them already had one... jerks

Maybe there's a reason you don't have a job with an attitude like that. Not everyone likes their job, in which case it's only natural to look for a new one. Don't blame other people for your own failure. You don't get anywhere in the job market waiting for everyone else to get a job just so it means there's one left for you.
post #58 of 121
Two things I'd like to be there to see when the MS stores open:

Customers' reactions when they find out they can't buy the "wonderful" Windows computer that's just been demonstrated to them, that they have to go to Best Buy or somewhere else. The last I read, the MS stores will not be selling the boxes.

Customers' reactions when a Guru tells them, "This is not a Windows problem, it's a Dell problem. Here's their number."
post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

they're not obsessed with beating them to the ground

all of their success, they have apple to thank for

windows is a bad copy of os 9

everything they've been successful / attempted to do has had to do with them stealing from apple...they are their r & d department

they are so rich, but still hate themselves for being such pathetic parasites

I think it's simpler than that.

They just want the other 5%.
post #60 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithbporter View Post

Wow, Apple has really got under Microsoft's skin. With the laptop ads and opening retail stores and now this? Even Microsoft thinks Apple's market share is going to increase significantly and they are scared.

Microsoft's theft never ends!
post #61 of 121
What's interesting is that the 2 stories in this article are closely related. Companies can treat their employees like crap (not saying Apple is or isn't in this case... don't know all the facts) as long as their is no competition for them. All of the free market types on this thread should be applauding MS for providing competition to Apple that will drive up the wages for a bunch of workers who do a damned fine job in my opinion. (Or does 'competition' only apply to products, not people?)

As much as I like Apple, don't forget that Jobs screwed a lot of the original employees out of the IPO, and those of us with AAPL have been benefiting directly from near slave-labor in the manufacturing end. End of day, they're a corporation.
post #62 of 121
Microsoft searching for retail employees through headhunting? Wow, that's nothing new. Every industry does that. Even Apple does headhunting to lure people from other companies.

A walk-out? Now that is funny! Like management cares! Show me a company that doesn't have managers that are typically thought of as "abusive." With the unemployment rate high, I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of people ready to take the place of those bonehead employees complaining about their jobs. I am sure it is only 1 or 2 talking about a walk-out, and the rest are happy to be employed! They should all shut the hell up and be happy to be earning a paycheck during these tough economic times.
post #63 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Microsoft searching for retail employees through headhunting? Wow, that's nothing new. Every industry does that. Even Apple does headhunting to lure people from other companies.

A walk-out? Now that is funny! Like management cares! Show me a company that doesn't have managers that are typically thought of as "abusive." With the unemployment rate high, I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of people ready to take the place of those bonehead employees complaining about their jobs. I am sure it is only 1 or 2 talking about a walk-out, and the rest are happy to be employed! They should all shut the hell up and be happy to be earning a paycheck during these tough economic times.

YEAH!!! You tell 'em! Those stupid workers who are stupid enough to want to feed their families. Screw 'em all! Let 'em eat cake!
post #64 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinkn00be View Post

Some of us actually want a job, too bad it isnt anywhere in my area.
I was invited to an apple hiring seminar, and just over hearing some of the other people there, they were looking for second jobs, or to replace their first job. Greedy people! I dont even have a job and most of them already had one... jerks

Quote:
Originally Posted by star-fish View Post

Maybe there's a reason you don't have a job with an attitude like that. Not everyone likes their job, in which case it's only natural to look for a new one. Don't blame other people for your own failure. You don't get anywhere in the job market waiting for everyone else to get a job just so it means there's one left for you.

There's more to it than even that. Often, one job doesn't pay enough to support yourself or your family. I was working two retail jobs for a while, because my first one didn't give me enough hours (we're talking one 6-hour shift a week, and several of my peers had similar complaints) and I have to help my family by being its second source of income. Eventually, I quit the first job because there weren't any more hours on the horizon, and it wasn't worth even a fraction of the extra gas money (for shifts on days that my father had off — we have a 1½-hour drive from the jobless small town where we live to the nearest "city"). Now, due to slumping sales, I'm about to start alternating 2- and 3-day work weeks at my new job, because that's all they can give me. Meanwhile, I'm paying our internet bill as well as trying to pay down more credit card debt (my mom's card, which is only ever used for emergency bill payments) than I'll likely ever see the end of.

I doubt those people lining up to work at the Apple Store are doing so out of greed. Especially in this economy.
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

There's more to it than even that. Often, one job doesn't pay enough to support yourself or your family. I was working two retail jobs for a while, because my first one didn't give me enough hours (we're talking one 6-hour shift a week, and several of my peers had similar complaints) and I have to help my family by being its second source of income. Eventually, I quit the first job because there weren't any more hours on the horizon, and it wasn't worth even a fraction of the extra gas money (for shifts on days that my father had off — we have a 1½-hour drive from the jobless small town where we live to the nearest "city"). Now, due to slumping sales, I'm about to start alternating 2- and 3-day work weeks at my new job, because that's all they can give me. Meanwhile, I'm paying our internet bill as well as trying to pay down more credit card debt (my mom's card, which is only ever used for emergency bill payments) than I'll likely ever see the end of.

I doubt those people lining up to work at the Apple Store are doing so out of greed. Especially in this economy.

Keep in mind that those ridiculing the workers at the Apple Stores are John Galt wannabes who think the world would come crashing down without their earth-moving brilliance.
They've been brainwashed to think that the interest of corporations is the same as their own.
Then they take the decent wages, 8-hour days, overtime, vacations, safe working conditions etc etc that were brought to them by union members' cracked heads and think they got it on their own.
post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You seem to be implying that support for Windows isn't technically viable

It's viable. It just isn't ever going to be as smooth and slick as it is for a vertically integrated vendor. Without a single point of responsibility, the answers are not going to be palatable to the end user. And trying to take on that responsibility, as quality support shops do today, isn't economically feasible without a bill attached.
post #67 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Keep in mind that those ridiculing the workers at the Apple Stores are John Galt wannabes who think the world would come crashing down without their earth-moving brilliance.
They've been brainwashed to think that the interest of corporations is the same as their own.
Then they take the decent wages, 8-hour days, overtime, vacations, safe working conditions etc etc that were brought to them by union members' cracked heads and think they got it on their own.

Might have a point there.
post #68 of 121
Come on apple fans should be the last ones to complain about copying.
post #69 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

It's viable. It just isn't ever going to be as smooth and slick as it is for a vertically integrated vendor. Without a single point of responsibility, the answers are not going to be palatable to the end user. And trying to take on that responsibility, as quality support shops do today, isn't economically feasible without a bill attached.

The support model really isn't any different. If these MS guys should find that the issue is hardware (say driver for example) related, they will just refer them back to the hardware vendor. Since Apple is a one stop shop, the process is more streamlined (and definitely easier with known hardware configurations), but the basic business model is the same. The difference here being MS would have to refer the user outside of it's support structure for help, while Apple would not.

I don't think these Guru's or whatever they are calling them will struggle that much. They will have MS to back their service questions as far as the OS is concerned and anything else will get booted out to the manufacturer's, just as the OS is supported today (for a small fee I'm sure
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post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

And Ballmer is standing there sweating and eating a churro.

Ugh. I just threw up my breakfast.
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post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by r210 View Post

hmm... xbox 360

wonder how many people will walk in and say, "can you tell me why i got these red rings of death"
post #72 of 121

post #73 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Come on apple fans should be the last ones to complain about copying.

Microsoft theft History Lesson:
1. DOS was not written by Gates/Allan-it was written by another desperate Seattle programmer who sold it cheap, with no royalties. It became the de-facto OS for IBM compatibles and Gates's fortune. (Aside from the crooked stock options which turned into Billions) See Bill Parish YouTube
2. Windows was a direct lift of Apples intense work, which was purchased and modified, with full approval, from Park-Doug Engelbart's desktop system using the mouse, which Engelbart invented and patented. Microsoft circumvented paying for Windows and the mouse, by theft.
3. Blatant theft of QuickTime
4. Internet Explorer-the complete, intensional destruction of Netscape
5. Zune
6. Retail stores
7. Apple Retail employees
post #74 of 121
Sack the manager...Simples!!
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post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Must suck to be a smug jerk who resents anyone wanting decent working conditions and fair pay.

We don't know what the grievances are, do we? Is it about wages? Besides, what is their typical pay range?

If whatever is going on is really illegal, isn't there an Attorney General or similar post in the state to investigate that?

Quote:
FWIW, remember that Alan Greenspan worked for years to make sure that the economy ensured high unemployment in order to keep labor in oversupply, wages down (and corporate profits up.)

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard of it, and I've heard of lots of conspiracy theories. Do you have a source for this? A reliable quote from the man himself would help.
post #76 of 121
***Breaking News***

In an amazing dastardly twist, the free market economy resulted in some employees of one company being lured to another on the promise of more money, more interesting work and possibly even a slightly better role. The entire world died of shock.

Stay tuned for more obviousness as the day goes on...

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post #77 of 121
Now Microsoft is stealing away Apple employees from retail stores. What else is new. They've been stealing from Apple since Bill Gates worked for Apple.
don5404
post #78 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

For a company with such small market share relative to their own, Microsoft seems to be taking them pretty seriously.

Maybe a small share of those computer things. But Apple's market cap is $165B and Microsoft's is $229B. Must be a different problem, then.

And their financial numbers this quarter were down (second time, I think).

So Steve B has a right to be worried. They need to find a life beyond Windows+Office and so far every attempt has been a "fail". He also needs to be thinking about his own job prospects if things keep going the way they are.
post #79 of 121
You can steal a few employees from another company, but if you try and steal lots of them you can be sued for predatory behavior.

Having said that, if Microsoft is paying more and this in turn requires Apple to pay more to its employees, I think that's great. While I don't know specifically what Apple is paying these days (previous reports indicated anywhere between $10 and $50 per hour), obviously you can't live in most urban areas on $10 an hour, but $50 an hour (presumably to store managers and senior techs) is an extraordinary wage for retail, especially today. But I don't how real that is.

As for the employee complaints, it could be valid, it could be B.S. There's no way to know. It only takes one egocentric micro-manager to drive everyone crazy. But on the other hand, some people don't know what "work" means.
post #80 of 121
I think this is a step in the right direction by Microsoft. Given their global presence, it will be popular PR.
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