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Purported shots of Microsoft's touchscreen device revealed - Page 4

post #121 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

Pen Dominated = Fail

You may have a point. But you don't yet know if it is Pen Dominated. It may handle fingers equally well. We'll see.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #122 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

Am I the only one that realizes that this NonVendorFan always comes in at the beginning, spews a bunch of garbage, then is no where to be found? I swear this is probably the tenth thread I've seen this happen.

No, you are not the only one.
post #123 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

why should he be wary? does this device look remotely interesting to anyone and appealing to the eyes, as the iphone?

when videos like these of prototypes surface, one has to remember that microsoft is after all...a company that SELLS...(crap)...their CEO is a sales person...

Yes......yes it does! Hello?

Microsoft is a crap company that can't innovate no argument here. Or at least, it doesn't innovate.....at first. Over a stretch of time though, they are able to analyze the competition and copy to the point where they do finally come out with a competing product.
Do you think they actually need to wait for Apple to embarass them with an uber tablet and take another two years to figure out what to do like with the iphone?

They are taking the hard lessons the iphone has taught them and applying that to the creation of their tablet. They're not waiting for anybody because Microsoft needs to step up their game considerably if they want to stay in the the mobile business. Because if they do not.....they're eventually gonna be OUT OF BUSINESS!
post #124 of 224
The YouTube video shows something that is quite nice in concept. Whether it will work as shown, who knows.

Two observations: (i) There is no reason that Apple could not do everything shown there, exploiting features in Expose, Dashboard etc. (ii) Apple's product will probably be positioned as a personal multimedia + phone + reader device, while MSFT's looks like it will cater to office folks.
post #125 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Let me add again, I'm glad that there are even videos and pictures of this thing out there. Apple won't even dangle a friggin' table scrap in front of us with the upcoming tablet (if they're even doing one at all).

And I also like the fact that it has multi-touch AND pen input for writing. An onscreen keyboard is all well in good, but being able to actually write notes and write out URLs with a pen is a big plus to me.

PLEASE, PLEASE Microsoft, MAKE THIS THING!

Apple doesn't dangle 'table scraps' because if the did, MS would steal the idea.
In additional, this thing doesn't "have multi-touch AND pen input"... it doesn't exist! This is a market wet dream, not a product.
Its also called FUD, which is the only innovation MS has ever excelled at.
post #126 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

... The product looks amazing, would like to see the real thing.

The "real thing" is that six inch thick monstrosity in the video, the picture you posted is a concept mock-up.

In other words the "real thing" doesn't exist here, this thingie is one step away from vapourware.

My guess would be that someone at Microsoft actually got a look at what Apple is doing and it scared them so much that they wanted to hit the interwebs first with this so as to not seem like weak copyists when this thing finally comes to market in about 2012.

It also makes them look like they innovate too (they don't), and like they are players (they aren't), and all that other great stuff that vapourware can do for a company.
post #127 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

I've got an iBone & can't wait until my contract is up. I'm not the only one, I'm sure of that.

Let's see...
Spewage from 'fruit' hating troll who was stupid enough to buy a device he hates, or consistent customer satisfaction surveys in the high 90th percentile.
Hmmmm... which to believe.
post #128 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Apple doesn't dangle 'table scraps' because if the did, MS would steal the idea.
In additional, this thing doesn't "have multi-touch AND pen input"... it doesn't exist! This is a market wet dream, not a product.
Its also called FUD, which is the only innovation MS has ever excelled at.

So many hostile people around here...

post #129 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay View Post

As Steve Ballmer has said, "It doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard, which makes it not a very good email machine"

Good catch. Add to this, the current thinking that Microsoft may be seeking to get out of hardware entirely, and what is left over? A lot of wishful thinking that Microsoft will completely reinvent itself as a company and start pulling rabbits out of its hat. If wishes were fishes.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #130 of 224
I really like the concept...

The best I've seen in a while from Microsoft... way much better than their Origami concept...

But seriously Microsoft...

Fix your OS kernel... cuz, a the same pace you're till now... no matter what awesome or cool concept... your freaking OS will ruin it all....

Why?

Cuz, your OS just take too much computing power to do something even close to coolness...

So, better have a "Humongous" batter like 12 or 18 cells to be able to sustain all day (8 real hours)... of work....
post #131 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

More so because, at this point, they don't even have a 'concept' as far as anyone knows/has seen.

Say what you will, but whatever the MacPod is/does, there's little chance that it will be anywhere near this advanced, given the somewhat lethargic development of their current products (iPhone/Touch, OSX, MacBook, and the like).

Heck, they only just saw fit to finally put a radio in an iPod, and even then only the Nano got one...

As was pointed out earlier Apple published their concept video a few years ago - 1987!!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6719096&hl=en#
post #132 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Yes......yes it does! Hello?

Microsoft is a crap company that can't innovate no argument here. Or at least, it doesn't innovate.....at first. Over a stretch of time though, they are able to analyze the competition and copy to the point where they do finally come out with a competing product.
Do you think they actually need to wait for Apple to embarass them with an uber tablet and take another two years to figure out what to do like with the iphone?

They are taking the hard lessons the iphone has taught them and applying that to the creation of their tablet. They're not waiting for anybody because Microsoft needs to step up their game considerably if they want to stay in the the mobile business. Because if they do not.....they're eventually gonna be OUT OF BUSINESS!

Dude you are giving Microsoft way too much credit here.

First, this is a concept idea, not a product. It's vapourware. It's years away from being a product, if ever. Secondly, it's an Apple idea. The product designers make reference to this when they pull up a video and it's the old "Apple Knowledge Navigator" video from 22 years ago that first showcased this very concept (as well as multi-touch.)

Nothing about this concept for a two screen notebook is new, nothing about it hasn't been put forward before in innumerable designs by multiple companies and if anyone has the bragging rights to say they thought of it first, it's Apple.
post #133 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

Pen Dominated = Fail

Right, 7000 years of pen usage is going to come to a screeching halt because Apple doesn't want you to use one with the iPhone. As far as taking notes goes, I'll bet there isn't an iPhone user in the world who can beat a guy with a pen and a pad of paper. Try drawing an arrow, quickly underline some text, or sketch a diagram in Notes. With all the iPhones I see in meetings, I've never seen anyone actually use it as a note taking device. People still use laptops and legal pads. Heck, I used my laptop and MobileMe to get 90% of my data onto my iPhone right now. Its just faster that way.

The battle for the tablet market will be fought in the classroom and the conference room, and stylus-based computing (writing) is familiar, intuitive, and faster for most people. Apple has yet to roll out the dozens of time saving gestures it has tried to patent (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/02/a...re-dictionary/), and I think that even if they did, people don't want to learn a bunch of gestures just so they can use their device. I hope Apple sees the value in adding a stylus to their tablet, because I think the real test of these devices will be how well people can keep up in real-world real-time situations with as little effort as possible.
post #134 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

If Microsoft found a way to put Surface into what everyone in business person carries every day (a planer) Then Apple is screwed. Surface is Windows most advanced OS they've ever displayed and is shipping on larger models.

I thought Google was Apple's biggest threat on every front of Apple's current model.

If Microsoft has brought Surface to desktop it's a new ball game between Microsoft & Google. Both offer Multi-Tasking on both OS and mobile, both offer an open solution for every vendor to build on.

Kind of reminds me of the early 90's.

i What? Oh you mean that piece of fruit that has been goudging users for years and charging 4 times what the product was worth.

I've got an iBone & can't wait until my contract is up. I'm not the only one, I'm sure of that.

You still here? when is your contract up again?
post #135 of 224
Looks fantastic although the GUI, icons, fonts, touch responses etc...look suspiciously like Apple and NOT M$ to me.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #136 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

Looks fantastic although the GUI, icons, fonts, touch responses etc...look suspiciously like Apple and NOT M$ to me.

it's obvious that ms is flooding youtube with fake videos of their "creations"...

their real strategy is to wait until apple releases theirs, then make a crappy copy of it...same old same old...
post #137 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Two observations: (i) There is no reason that Apple could not do everything shown there, exploiting features in Expose, Dashboard etc. (ii) Apple's product will probably be positioned as a personal multimedia + phone + reader device, while MSFT's looks like it will cater to office folks.

I never thought of Microsoft as a caterer, but that's as reasonable a guess for the company's future as any. Deli sandwiches delivered by goofballs all named Steve. I'd buy that for a dollar!

Apple is likely well beyond a concept animation. IIRC, Apple invented iPhone, they didn't just buy it like Microsoft did Surface. iPhone was also brought to market sooner and appears to serve millions more customers than Surface. You might say Surface only scratched the surface of the market for touch devices. This Courier or Cotex or whatever may only have a future if it can tell me when my coffee cup, which will sit nicely on it, needs a warmer and it's time to order a sandwich.
post #138 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Its also called FUD, which is the only innovation MS has ever excelled at.

Sorry to have to correct you on this point, but it's pretty well established that FUD was originally developed at IBM.
post #139 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Sorry to have to correct you on this point, but it's pretty well established that FUD was originally developed at IBM.

But perfected by Microsoft.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #140 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

But perfected by Microsoft.

Well, I'm not sure they've quite perfected it, but they shouldn't get credit for it as an innovation of theirs.
post #141 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post

... Its being leaked because ...

Yes, and to Carly Simon's tune of Nobody Does It Better ... (leaking)
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post #142 of 224
Gee...

Now MS is copying OLPC? or XO2?

What next?


Sheesh!


Get original guys....




post #143 of 224
Well, first off, it doesn't seem to be a tablet. This is a book form factor so perhaps it's their take on a dual screen netbook. Beyond nitpicky semantics, I think a dual screen with wide gutter between them is so limiting as to make it nonsensical as a consumer device. (maybe this isn't positioned as a consumer device ...?) When you are really working or reading, usually you will want to maximize the active window, esp on a small hand held device. So here, you can't ... or if you can you have a huge dead stripe down the middle ... epic fail there. Using a hinged device as a camera seems awkward at best, obviously this isn't going to be your main camera I guess. The still photo seems to show a media library open on the left and some sort of page open on the right with the invisible hand scribbling tiny notes on it. Seems like a big waste of screen space to have the left side devoted to all those large thumbnails while you're trying to do some work on the right side.

I skimmed a few of the many replies and have to say that I'm amazed that the animated demo elicited excitement among some. So you can drag snippets between an address book and a map, or between a webpage and scrapbook - big whoop. We've been dragging things from window to window for ages, so does dragging from screen to adjacent screen really get you all cranked? Right now, there is a little app for sharing photos between iPhones, where you put them side by side and drag from one to the other, just like in this demo. Only, its here now.

I dunno, seems very fuddish and like a vaporware 'leak'; keep the troops moral up kind of thing. Thats fair, standard MS playbook.
post #144 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Gee...
Now MS is copying OLPC? or XO2?
What next?

Sheesh!


Get original guys....

Gizmodo says they are final stages. If true they were making it before this "mockup" appeared anywhere. I wouldn't use that argument, after all lots of people here want a dual-screen from Apple. What would you have said then? Personally I never liked the dual screen idea, in any form.

I see Apple going the "slate" route. And eventually giving the Pro books touch displays, with some sort of clever swivel thingy.

Having two screens brings down battery life, and whatever way you look at it adds complexity on some level. This whole dilemma isn't an easy one to solve, which is why it hasn't been solved yet.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #145 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miykael View Post

Video is pretty awesome. Here's to hoping that Apple and M$FT duke it out pretty heavily in this arena, then the ultimate winner is us, the consumer!

Thing is. If Microsoft releases this and doesn't 3rd party it, watch out. This will be huge. The video was great. Remember. Take a lok at their mobile 6.5 more like osx then win is so if they potted the 6.5 and made some changes, this could be very doable.
post #146 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I'm not sure they've quite perfected it, but they shouldn't get credit for it as an innovation of theirs.

They're working on it. Credit where credit is due, I always say.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #147 of 224
While the video was amazingly cool, the UI didn't really do anything that revolutionary that makes me think this can't be done. Other than it being extremely snappy, there really isn't anything there that looks too far fetched. Battery life would be a concern with 2 screens though.
post #148 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Thing is. If Microsoft releases this and doesn't 3rd party it, watch out. This will be huge. The video was great. Remember. Take a lok at their mobile 6.5 more like osx then win is so if they potted the 6.5 and made some changes, this could be very doable.

Ok, I'm curious to know, what was great to you in the video animation ...

I saw the clip but wasn't wowed. Tell me what I missed ...
post #149 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by battiato1981 View Post

Ok, I'm curious to know, what was great to you in the video animation ...

I saw the clip but wasn't wowed. Tell me what I missed ...

The Apple logo
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #150 of 224
There is no actual concept or innovation here. The booklet concept is a no-brainer, we would all come up with this and more in a few minutes around a white board.

The decision-making starts with the UI metaphors. A few 8-year olds would come up with the lame stuff from this video which only appears to work because the activity was so simple. Add a full set of Apps and suddenly it gets hard.

Nothing going on here and this is not the result of an R&D team, just some employee asked to make a video to generate some marketing interference.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #151 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

This may be vaporware, but it is EXACTLY what I've been thinking about for years - back when tablets first came up. I don't like slates, I like books and this is a real iBook!!!!

Two screens with different functions! Years ago I was thinking one would be color and HD and meant for images/video, while the other would be for touch typing or writing with stylus and possibly eInk.

The best form factor is the paperback book - different sizes - and the video shows great UI elements.


I've ragged on MS and can not imagine buying a Windows machine, but this is the one thing that would cause me great angst - if MS had this and Apple just had a 8 inch iPhone!

I want THIS!!!!! And I know LOTs of computerphobes who would jump at this and leave laptops behind for ever.


Like you, I have thought about a similar concept except that with Apple's ability to go portrait or landscape mode, why not a 2 screen (hardcover book size) that shows left & right pages in landscape mode but top screen( computer view screen) bottom screen being virtual keyboard with a button to turn it into a second view screen ? That would cover all bases, i.e. .... e-book reader, plus all iPod Touch abilities and macbook computing abilities .... one device to do everything
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #152 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Like you, I have thought about a similar concept except that with Apple's ability to go portrait or landscape mode, why not a 2 screen (hardcover book size) that shows left & right pages in landscape mode but top screen( computer view screen) bottom screen being virtual keyboard with a button to turn it into a second view screen ? That would cover all bases, i.e. .... e-book reader, plus all iPod Touch abilities and macbook computing abilities .... one device to do everything

This is as shown in the previous posters photo of the OLPC concept. So then you are talking about a laptop sized device and a lot more battery drain. Not to mention screen real estate waste for much of the time. Key to a tablet will be managing the screen real estate in a smooth and efficient manner.

Perhaps a designer or video editor has a lot of need for two screens, but they wouldn't be using a handheld device to get that kind of work done.

And hey, as an aside - a new global initiative for Apple - OTOK ... One Tablet, One Kid.
post #153 of 224
Quote:


Hhhhaaaahhhaa good one!

No wonder no one at ms delivers if you get through the experience officer then it's the execution officer, bang bang, chop chop!!!
post #154 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

That's what this room said about Google Anroid & Google OS. Maybe Old Dogs can learn new tricks. Surface has rocked since it was in concept and table format.

Put it on a multi surface tablet (planner) and it's nothing short of brilliant.


Do some research on Surface. Apple has nothing that even comes close to comparing with it.

Nothing that they have disclosed to the public...
post #155 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Thing is. If Microsoft releases this and doesn't 3rd party it, watch out. This will be huge. The video was great. Remember. Take a lok at their mobile 6.5 more like osx then win is so if they potted the 6.5 and made some changes, this could be very doable.

Huh? Somehow we got from "the video was great" to "this could be very doable" with a brief touchdown at WinMo 6.5. I'm overcome with vertigo.

Really, people who are enthusing over the video or, worse, somehow imagining that the video represents some kind of challenge or threat to Apple: stop.

You must stop, the madness threatens to kill all kittens on the internet at once.

1) The video depicts a rendering of a device. There is no prototype hardware.

2) The video depicts a rendering of software interaction. There is no software, even alpha software.

3) Most importantly, the video of the nonexistent hardware and software depicts a couple of best case use scenarios, wherein flicking info from one screen to another or cutting and pasting via a graphic routine makes sense.

It is actually very easy to make impressive videos of such blue sky thinking when one does not have to account for real world coding, data interaction, and use scenarios. If you think for a moment about how one might actually use such a device, outside of a tidy little "I'll start a little file on a particular cool urban job thing that I do, and sequentially acquire content that works with that", you'll realize that what is shown doesn't remotely account for even a fraction of what people use digital devices for.

For instance, I could make up a little movie where I'm watching a movie on the left pane and murmer "Ooh, that suit jacket is just the color I've been looking for for my new kitchen paint", then pause the video, draw a little circle around the jacket, and flick it to the right, where the device somehow knows I'm interested in "color" and immediately launches a web browser with a Bing search to show me where to buy just the paint I want. Then I tap the vendor name to automatically order that very paint.

Which would be cool if it weren't so contingent on a lot of contrived notions about what it is I'm doing. Like I say, best case use scenario.

My guess is this is an in-house video of the kind of "forward looking" design concepts that any tech company is typically batting around, some of which may even make it into some MS products, at some point.

But imagining that this video represents a soon to ship product that Apple ignores at their peril is really just insane.

Think of the kittens.
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post #156 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Nothing that they have disclosed to the public...

"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #157 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


Apple is much more tight lipped than MS about concepts for future products.
post #158 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So many hostile people around here...

Er.. I think he was just explaining the truth of the situation.
post #159 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Huh? Somehow we got from "the video was great" to "this could be very doable" with a brief touchdown at WinMo 6.5. I'm overcome with vertigo.

Really, people who are enthusing over the video or, worse, somehow imagining that the video represents some kind of challenge or threat to Apple: stop.

You must stop, the madness threatens to kill all kittens on the internet at once.

1) The video depicts a rendering of a device. There is no prototype hardware.

2) The video depicts a rendering of software interaction. There is no software, even alpha software.

3) Most importantly, the video of the nonexistent hardware and software depicts a couple of best case use scenarios, wherein flicking info from one screen to another or cutting and pasting via a graphic routine makes sense.

It is actually very easy to make impressive videos of such blue sky thinking when one does not have to account for real world coding, data interaction, and use scenarios. If you think for a moment about how one might actually use such a device, outside of a tidy little "I'll start a little file on a particular cool urban job thing that I do, and sequentially acquire content that works with that", you'll realize that what is shown doesn't remotely account for even a fraction of what people use digital devices for.

For instance, I could make up a little movie where I'm watching a movie on the left pane and murmer "Ooh, that suit jacket is just the color I've been looking for for my new kitchen paint", then pause the video, draw a little circle around the jacket, and flick it to the right, where the device somehow knows I'm interested in "color" and immediately launches a web browser with a Bing search to show me where to buy just the paint I want. Then I tap the vendor name to automatically order that very paint.

Which would be cool if it weren't so contingent on a lot of contrived notions about what it is I'm doing. Like I say, best case use scenario.

My guess is this is an in-house video of the kind of "forward looking" design concepts that any tech company is typically batting around, some of which may even make it into some MS products, at some point.

But imagining that this video represents a soon to ship product that Apple ignores at their peril is really just insane.

Think of the kittens.

Exactly.

Thank you.
post #160 of 224
Hi guys, there were some questions on the hardware earlier in the thread (I hope you are still reading) that I can help with.
1. Touch screen sensitivity: The screen is intended to include limited pressure sensitivity. It won't be the same level of fidelity like a wacom tablet, but it will have some measure of pressure sensitivity below the primary screen layer.
2. Bullware: Some of the features make look futuristic, but nearly everything you saw is already in use in Win 7, Surface and MS Research. I'll go through a few examples that I've written up else where.

The most common question I've seen is the issue of flicking items across the screens. This come from the physics API driving Microsoft Surface. There's a three part demo of it up on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLI1JtymEVo). I do not believe the physics engine was included in Windows 7 (except for some small things, like gesture bouncing), but the rest of the features I talk about should be there. ... Update: Looks like I was wrong. Inertia and Manip are in there now. You can find more information here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx

Task-aware Copy and Paste: During the video you'll see an example of a clipper application using a gesture to activate a copy and paste feature. The gesture features can be enabled in any Windows 7 install. For programmers you can explore it via the WM_TOUCH API. It's a good idea to start playing around with this if you're interested in the tablet. Try writing your own clipper application!

The flicking object ability has been variously available to Windows developers for a long time (if horrible). I'm sure a few of you remember Win32 OLE/COM horrors. .NET uses WCF which is not... as horrible to program for (It's XML-based). The examples you saw were just simple mockups of the capabilities of applications that interact via WCF. Aka, dragging a user name onto Google Maps hands her address. GM receives the address and refreshes to the address.

Just a note, if you have multiple addresses it will do the same thing SYNC does, aka, ask if you'd like to see their home location or office location.

I hope that clears up some questions. If you have any just poke me, and I'll see what I can find.

Note: I do not work for Microsoft.
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